Client awoke crying and scared. Any opinions?

[paulcola]

I took a client through what was, apparently, a very powerful session. I created a script based on a smoking cessation script I've used in the past. The issue was sugar addiction. I admit I didn't notice that she was breathing faster than normal during the session, a mistake I won't make again.
When she came out, she was crying and scared. I realize that the mind can and will create different images than the ones you are trying to paint, but almost everything in the script scared her. She went into a protective place in her mind and waited there until I took her someplace else (which I found out afterward).

Has anyone had someone come out of trance like this? I know it's supposed to feel happy and safe, which is the reason for my question. She doesn't know if this was beneficial or not. She felt traumatized! She felt much relief after describing the experience to me, but still very confused. Of course, I'll know more in a couple days when I talk with her again.

Any thoughts?

[Simple Guy]

Paulcola,

Were you trained to use a script?
Why did you use a script based on something else, presumbably
for someone else?
How much experience have you with calibration?
Why do you feel it is a good thing to use the language of addiction with
regards to sugar and did you use this language with this person?
How did your training address what you bring up here?

No, I've never had something as you describe take place.
Discomfort is addressed immediately and stopped.

[Terry]

I have seen tears during a session, but they have been tears of joy or relief. From what you describe, I would also question your method and your training. Certainly I would be interested in your experience since you ask questions that cannot be answered without more information on these.

[Connie]

I guess I don't like the words "sugar addiction." I don't know if such an animal exists--does she go to meetings and announce: "Hello, I"m Marie and I'm a sugar addict!" ? "Hello, Marie!!" I prefer to think of things in terms of behaviors, and want the clients to do so as well.

Were you using an aversion therapy? Do you suggest she never have sugar ever again in any form? Smoking is a yes/no. You do it or you do not. Sugar is a how much and in what form. You can't escape sugar, it appears naturally in so many foods, including non-processed foods like a piece of fruit. I don't see a smoking script translating easily to food. You don't have to smoke, ever, but you do have to eat!

[skip]

Paul,

I cant know this for sure, but it seems as if you were looking at what you were reading, not at her, and not observing her responses real time.

Otherwise you would have noticed the tears, and could have dealt with the reaction at the time.

If that is the case...

My suggestion would be to throw away the scripts, and be with your client, interacting with them, during the session.

If that necessitates more study and practice, so be it.

Ignore this if it is off base.

cheers,

skip

[paulcola]

Thank you all for your comments and inquiries. I will do my best to address each one below:


"Were you trained to use a script?"

Yes and no. I create a script after the interview. I am still creating my style. Eventually I will not need a script in all circumstances. In this case, I used a script.

"Why did you use a script based on something else, presumbably
for someone else?"

I changed a general smoking cessation script, one that is known to work (for smoking of course). Obviously using different words. The imagery is completely different. It was discussed before the session.

"How much experience have you with calibration?"

Not much apparently. I did notice the breathing, but I mistook it for excitement (happiness).

"Why do you feel it is a good thing to use the language of addiction with
regards to sugar and did you use this language with this person?"

Sugar is an addiction. Should I have used that language in the script? Well,
I guess that's a good question. Perhaps I should have conveyed it differently.

"How did your training address what you bring up here?"

I was under the impression that people come out of hypnosis feeling calm, happy and even energized. My training did not prepare me for this. Yes, had proper calibration been followed, I would have caught it before it got any worse.

"No, I've never had something as you describe take place.
Discomfort is addressed immediately and stopped."

When caught. I misread the client. I was using a script filled with what I believed to be beautiful imagery and she was distorting it in her mind as I was guiding her. In one part, she was in a hallway leading to a beautiful crystalline room filled with light (in the script), her mind turned it into a dark, scary cave. She became claustrophobic and scared right from the beginning! And here I thought the imagery was exciting her positively.

"I have seen tears during a session, but they have been tears of joy or relief. From what you describe, I would also question your method and your training. Certainly I would be interested in your experience since you ask questions that cannot be answered without more information on these."

I studied hypnosis (intensely) for a few months, received certification from a teacher with 10 years experience, and still continue to study today. I don't blame my teacher, I blame my overconfidence in my abilities since I've had very few clients. Obviously, these types of experiences are where wisdom is formed.

"I guess I don't like the words "sugar addiction." I don't know if such an animal exists--does she go to meetings and announce: "Hello, I"m Marie and I'm a sugar addict!" ? "Hello, Marie!!" I prefer to think of things in terms of behaviors, and want the clients to do so as well."

Sugar is an addiction. With all due respect, I highly recommend giving up sugar for two weeks for the experience. I gave it up for quite a few months to experience what it was like. Not just sugar, but anything that creates sugar too (white bread, white rice, etc). Start reading labels and you will find that almost everything contains some type of sugar or sweetener. You will find that after you give it up for a couple weeks, you no longer crave the things you used to. I have something with sugar on ocassion now, but I do my best to avoid anything that creates or contains sugar.
But, you may have a point in regards to how I word it to the client. This is something I am realizing.


"Were you using an aversion therapy? Do you suggest she never have sugar ever again in any form? "

By her request, yes. Ecology was considered. She has read many books on the effects of sugar and I had also done my research before the session.

"Smoking is a yes/no. You do it or you do not. Sugar is a how much and in what form. You can't escape sugar, it appears naturally in so many foods, including non-processed foods like a piece of fruit. "

You can escape sugar, I've done it. When the addiction was gone, I was a different person who actually craved nothing but healthy foods! Seriously though, I really don't think I should take this thread into a sugar debate. Please do the research and experiment yourself. Then we can create a new thread for that.

"I don't see a smoking script translating easily to food. You don't have to smoke, ever, but you do have to eat!"

Opinion noted.

"Paul, I cant know this for sure, but it seems as if you were looking at what you were reading, not at her, and not observing her responses real time.
Otherwise you would have noticed the tears, and could have dealt with the reaction at the time."

There were no tears during the session. When I read a script, I read and face the client and continually monitor their physical senses. I did notice the breathing pattern but I mistook it for excitement and possibly elation. Her face was flaccid and no fear was shown. Or... let me put it this way: Perhaps my lack of experience was the reason I missed the real emotion ocurring.

"If that is the case... My suggestion would be to throw away the scripts, and be with your client, interacting with them, during the session.
If that necessitates more study and practice, so be it.
Ignore this if it is off base."

Thank you for that suggestion! My intention is to become so proficient that scripts are only used in special circumstances. It is good advice.

[paulcola]

As an addendum, I'm now more aware that the client has some pretty deep emotional issues and are likely the underlying cause for cravings. This wasn't a lose weight session, this was to address her uncontrollable cravings for sugar. After speaking with her at length, she feels that her issue is now a self-worth issue and the sugar is her way of dealing with it. I believe you are all on the right track by addressing the sugar in a different way. I believe the therapy needs to take a whole new direction.

Interesting note: She's not sure if it was a good or bad thing what happened. She was afraid to even look at her own reflection during trance. It seemed she didn't want to face herself and all the "ugliness" it represented. I think many realities were coming together for a realization. Unfortunately, I didn't put her in a safe place until it was too late.

[paulcola]

Oh, and I've talked with her today. No bad dreams, all is well. It will be a good day of reflection for her. Looking forward to hearing her thoughts.

[Henrik]

Hi, paulcola.

Reading a script, even though it was made after an interview, doesn't make sense to me. I cannot (even in my dreams) understand how it can lead to a successful outcome unless one is lucky. I'm not a hypnotherapist, only someone interested in the field and considering becomming one when I feel ready, but how can one expect success with a client unless constantly adjusting and calibrating to the situation and the moment? And how does that make room for a ready-made script?

You said you studied hypnosis intensely for a few months. In my opinion one should study until ready and qualified before helping clients. The client, the field of hypnosis and the therapist himself deserve that kind of respect. Or not?

It takes time and study to become a good engineer, dentist, surgeon. I sometimes get the impression that some think a month or five is enough to become a good and qualified hypnotherapist and I always wonder why... Isn't the mind the most complex of "machines"?

Curiously,
Henrik

[Simple Guy]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the responses. Was the training you received in-class with many practice
hours? What have you learned from this experience that would
enable you to be more thorough in interviewing a client and
avoiding the kind of surprises that ensued?

What the client comes to feel an issue is, is often wrong.
The client is not the therapist.

Sugar is naturally occurring in many foods and is necessary for life.
It is your opinion that sugar is an addiction; not mine. Personally, I
don't consume much sugar in refined form, nor do I eat many refined foods,
generally. Only a physician or a nutritionist should make
nutritional recommendations, and on an individual basis.
Are you qualified to do so?

[Poodle]

Scripts are useless and not to be read at clients. What you really need is what we call "Uptime" and that is a trance state that you are in with your client and you notice the tiniest of tinies. Hypnosis is supposed to feel absoutely wonderful, not a horrid experience

Yes, tobacco is laced with juices and even sugar itself. This is something to be discussed before the trance work, NOT in it. The reason for the discussion is to encourage the client to drink a small amount of real juice or some of a real orange so hypogyclenia does not develop but then again, you need a complete intake from the client so as to avoid any potential medical problem. I'm sure if you belonged to NGH and read the literature - CLIENTS TO NOT HAVE ADDICTIONS!!!! The medical profession tells them they are addicted to nicotine. Now, if this were really true, they would have 100% results with nicotine replacement. Often with tobacco, "Parts" is needed as "part" of the clients wants to quit and the other "part" does not.

In NLP we use strategies as there is a strategy to everything we do. In the trance state I build in toward strategies that my client has told me about and then I build in some away from strategies to keep my clients out of relapse and always going towards instead of away from because away from isn't a very nice place.

1. I suggest you stop using scripts immediately and use your mind instead as your clients are a wealth of information -- "Your client knows more about their problem than you EVER WILL".
2. If it just ain't working, get more training. I'm very sure the owner of this little Forum would just love to help you out in that matter.

You need to know how to "sell" what you are doing to both the conscious and unconscious minds in and out of trance.

Lastly, Paul, was your client asleep? I sure hope not. Humans awaken from sleep. They emerge from trance.

Wishing you the best of luck in the future,
Pood :)

[Merlin]

Happens all the time for less experienced hypnotists.
It's something usually covered in better hypnosis trainings.

The first thing to do is to calibrate on the client and where s/he is at
at all times.
Next, Know how to lead the client to a safe/comfortable place as needed.

[Merlin]

Sugar is an addiction. Should I have used that language in the script?

That's an assumption on your part, which may or may not be true for this client.

I was under the impression that people come out of hypnosis feeling calm, happy and even energized.
Obviously not.
It depends on what they exprience during the session.

When caught. I misread the client. I was using a script filled with what I believed to be beautiful imagery and she was distorting it in her mind as I was guiding her. In one part, she was in a hallway leading to a beautiful crystalline room filled with light (in the script), her mind turned it into a dark, scary cave. She became claustrophobic and scared right from the beginning! And here I thought the imagery was exciting her positively.

It doesn't matter what you think or believe, but rather your client's thoughts/beliefs

I studied hypnosis (intensely) for a few months, received certification from a teacher with 10 years experience, and still continue to study today. I don't blame my teacher, I blame my overconfidence in my abilities since I've had very few clients. Obviously, these types of experiences are where wisdom is formed.

Good! :)


Sugar is an addiction.

In your world, perhaps.
Were trying to help you understand otherwise :)

With all due respect, I highly recommend giving up sugar for two weeks for the experience. I gave it up for quite a few months to experience what it was like. Not just sugar, but anything that creates sugar too (white bread, white rice, etc).

Sugar is a necessary part of life.
Your muscles eat sugar.
Your brain eats sugar.
Without sugar you die.

You personally experienced a change when you altered your sugar intake.
But that's you. Not everyone is like you.
What was the results of your GTT?


Start reading labels and you will find that almost everything contains some type of sugar or sweetener.

Yes. It's called food.
Without it, you die.

You will find that after you give it up for a couple weeks, you no longer crave the things you used to. I have something with sugar on ocassion now, but I do my best to avoid anything that creates or contains sugar.
But, you may have a point in regards to how I word it to the client. This is something I am realizing.

After another class in hypnosis, might I recommend you take a class or two in nutritional biochemistry?

By her request, yes. Ecology was considered. She has read many books on the effects of sugar and I had also done my research before the session.

evidently not. :eek:

You can escape sugar, I've done it. When the addiction was gone, I was a different person who actually craved nothing but healthy foods! Seriously though, I really don't think I should take this thread into a sugar debate. Please do the research and experiment yourself. Then we can create a new thread for that.

Sugar is the only food your brain eats.
Without it, you're dead!!

[Don]

Hi, Paul.

It seems to me that there are actually several questions, some of which are overt and others not, most of which have been answered. I just wanted to identify them more specifically and point out the answers you've received.

1) Scripts: Scripts are wonderful things to use in training and for seeing what other hypnotists are doing. Beginning hypnotists often depend upon them. In practical use, they're best for planning and research. However, when actually doing hypnosis with a client, it is better to observe the client rather than reading from a paper or reciting a memorized script. Many people will say this comes from practice. That's certainly part of it, but the other part is known as "the assumption of excellence." That is, you assume excellence on the part of your unconscious and that it will trigger you to say exactly what the client needs to hear. This also comes from experience and repeated successes leading to self-confidence.

2) Sugar as an addiction. Whether it is an addiction or not is irrelevant. Whether you think or believe it is an addiction is irrelevant. What is relevant is what the client thinks. Let's assume that the client thinks sugar is an addiction. Addictions are much more difficult to end than are mere desires for something. Therefore, if a client comes complaining they are "addicted to sugar," even if you agree that there is such an addiction, it does no good to confirm the client's belief which includes the idea of difficulty in cessation and negative side effects from cessation. Rather, it makes more sense to point out that sugar is a necessity for life, and all that's taking place is that they believe they must have it, not that they are addicted. They don't have to agree with this, they merely need to say that this is possible. As soon as they are willing to think, "maybe it's not a true addiction" you have put that possibility into their mind and made what you're doing much easier. This is making use of the client's beliefs without falling into the client's trance.

3) Presenting Problem: The client came to you with a particular problem. This is known as the "presenting problem," and in my opinion it is the responsibility and obligation of a hypnotherapist to relieve it. However, as you seem to have learned, the presenting problem is not always the actual problem. Indeed, it may be that in a large percentage of times, the presenting problem is not the real issue(s). If you do not deal with the real issue the problem is likely to come back (although perhaps in a different manifestation). Therefore, I would suggest that dealing with the actual problem (as opposed to just the presenting problem) should be the actual goal. An effect of helping resolve the actual issue is the elimination of the presenting problem. There are many ways of dealing with the actual problem (some address it without even discovering what it is), and I would respectfully suggest that more training would help.

4) Crying per se. Crying is neither bad nor good, it simply is. It may be a response to relief for something that has been oppressive for a long time. It may be shock. It may be from sadness. Each has to be dealt with when it appears depending upon the cause. Tip: always have a box of tissue available. It may be especially useful during the pre-induction interview.

5) Crying and scared. This can only happen if a person is experiencing the sensation from an "associated" or 1st person perspective. When you notice changes such as increased breathing speed, lack or rhythm, backwards breathing (holding breath on inhale rather than the normal pause after an exhale), it is important, in my opinion, to move the client from an associated view to a dissociated or 3rd person perspective, observing what is going on rather than experiencing it. Psychotherapy often looks for the cathartic response you received even though, in an of itself, it resolves nothing. In hypnotherapy we get the cathartic response without the need of a physiological response.

6) You wrote, "I was under the impression that people come out of hypnosis feeling calm, happy and even energized. My training did not prepare me for this. Yes, had proper calibration been followed, I would have caught it before it got any worse."

Well, you're absolutely correct that your training didn't prepare you for it. But there is another aspect here. Even though hypnotherapy is a cooperative endeavor between the hypnotist and client, even if the hypnotist is using Ericksonian-style hypnosis which is permissive and gives the client options to choose, the hypnotist must always be in control. That confidence and control comes through in your voice. And in this case, the client should emerge from hypnosis feeling as you tell him or her to feel. Did you tell the client that when they emerge they will feel wonderful, great, ready to face the day with calm, relaxed, and with new energy (etc.), or did you just say something like, "When I count to three you will awake?" If the former, you had the client relaxed by not hypnotized. If the latter, you had turned over control of the session to the client.

In magic tricks there is something known as "equivoque" or the "magician's choice." When performed well, it looks like the magician is giving you a totally free choice from among a number of options. However, in reality, the choice you make is predetermined by the magician and you have no choice but to choose exactly what he or she wants.

The same is true with the most permissive style of hypnosis. I don't know what the client is going to do, but I do know that whatever he or she does will let them go deeper into hypnosis or more ready to accept suggestions.

The hypnotherapist should always be in control of a session.

7) You wrote, "...almost everything in the script scared her..." That should have been resolved in the pre-induction interview. You may have modified your smoking cessation script to focus on sugar, but you seem not to have modified it to address your clients fears and places of safety. Many years ago, before I actually took training, I induced hypnosis in others by having them go down an escalator. Then I ran into someone who was afraid of escalators. So I switched it to a huge escalator with a large comfy chair that people sat in as they went down. The person who was afraid of the escalator was still afraid. So I switched to an elevator...until I met a person who was afraid of elevators.

As I wrote above, studying scripts is very valuable. However, each script is going to have certain major points. Each of those points could result in peaceful, calm feelings by the client, or fear. If you're working with those scripts, you should isolate the major points and ask what your client thinks about them during the pre-induction talk. If they have any qualms, change it to something else. Instead of going "down," you could go on a long walk. Instead of a glade in a forrest, you might use a quiet ocean or a peaceful home.

In my opinion, part of hypnotherapy is based on the personal creativity of the hypnotist. A great way to enhance your creativity and ability to come up with hypnotic stories for induction and suggestion: read lots of childrens' fables and stories.

Good luck!

[paulcola]

I have read all your posts so far and am extremely grateful for your time. I promise to respond this evening when time is on my side. An expansion is taking place within me as I read this - and I do appreciate everyone's comments thus far... even if my initial reaction is to disagree with some of them!

I'll post later. Thanks!

[skip]

OK Paul,

Lets not make this about scripts.

Scripts = bad and leave it at that.

Hypnotic theraputic work is a dance that you and the client perform. You cant dance unless you are focused on them, reading and responding 'appropriately to their responses.

Here is what happened. You prepared a script filled with beautiful imagery ... imagery that is beautiful to you.

Apparently not beautiful to your client.

So while you were 'speaking' "love and light", your client was 'hearing' "darkness and fear".

In NLP we call that 'slippage', it is the difference between what you meant, and what they understood.

No one can always accurately predict how something will be interpreted.

What you got was an abreaction. And Im surprised, and frankly just a bit dissapointed that it is a novel concept for you.

You are very lucky it was a mild one.

Very lucky.

Abreactions can be as catastrophic as heart attacks and gran mal sezieures.

You might want to look into pattern interrupts as one method of dealing with them. I would also suggest you speak with your instructor about why this wasnt something you were fully prepared for by training.

In the mean time understand, what is wonderful and comfortable for you, isnt necessarily so for your client.

It is vital, critical, that you be precice and be accurately following where your client is (we call this calibration), and never assume that the experience you have with the language is the same as your clients.

Imagine:

...using imagry of diving into a pool with someone who is fearful of drowning.

...feeling someone holding you close in their embrace with a rape victim.

...standing on a mouintain top looking at the vista, with someone fearful of heights.

...smelling fresh baked bread, for someone who choked on a biscuit.


You dont know/cant know what might set someone off.

The only professional thing to do, is learn to sense where the client is and what their emotional state is. AND how to deal with abreactions.

cheers,

skip

[MissPiggy]

Sugar is a necessary part of life.
Your muscles eat sugar.
Your brain eats sugar.
Without sugar you die.

LOL, if that would be true all this people who are on atkins diet or any other ketogenic diet would soon be dead :D Fortunately it's not that easy to kill a human person, our bodys are quite adaptable. Otherwise there would be no human race anymore on this planet.

In one of my trainings we had a trainer who was very talented to make everybody cry while he hypnotized that person. One time he also hypnotised me. Before the experience I felt pretty good, after the experience I felt **** for a couple of days. I did never allow him to hypnotise me again.

[Merlin]

LOL, if that would be true all this people who are on atkins diet or any other ketogenic diet would soon be dead :D Fortunately it's not that easy to kill a human person, our bodys are quite adaptable. Otherwise there would be no human race anymore on this planet.



those diets ate temporary.

[skip]

MissPiggy,

Keytosis IS dangerous.

And those diets do drive you into 'mild' keytosis, deliberately.

Not recommended for long term.

That is why all of those diets work carbs back into the diet, once they have 'reset' the metabolism.

I wont quibble with the addiction lable, "If you think you are addicted, you are addicted. And even sometimes when you dont think you are!"

The question I would have is, "Is it benificial theraputically, to tell someome they are addicted, thereby making the problem loom large, or ought it be downplayed?"

No hard and fast rule there, is there?

cheers,

skip

[MissPiggy]

Skip, it's true that in some very very few cases it can become dangerous, but usually ketosis is everything else than dangerous. Also there are diets where carbs are not supposed to come back into the diet. Especially when people eat like this because it helps them in health issues (migraine, dravet syndrome, glut-1-defect, leigh disease..) When it comes to diets (and not only there) generalalisations are useless. What might be right for one person, can be absolutely wrong for another person. I would feel miserable on a strict lc diet, but I know many people who feel much better and healthier living like this.

[Merlin]

When it comes to diets (and not only there) generalalisations are useless. What might be right for one person, can be absolutely wrong for another person. I would feel miserable on a strict lc diet, but I know many people who feel much better and healthier living like this.
That was the point.
>When it comes to diets generalalisations are useless.
even about sugar.

[paulcola]

What incredible feedback. Thank you all so much for your contributions to this thread. Don, I really appreciate the time you took writing your very informative and educational response. I also very much appreciate the opinions and experiences of others as well.

You have all enlightened me (seriously!). I actually do feel differently about calling sugar an addictive substance now. In fact, it was the client whom I conversed with this evening who really made me see this differently. The very person who came to people stating she was addicted now tells me that it was the label she slapped on it to keep the problem outside of her control. Whoa!! Talk about switching to the Cause side of things... Excellent.

I am aware that everyone will interpret things differently, and I am also aware that this is a still a learning experience (and will be for quite some time). Believe me, my training hasn't stopped. I'm already lining up for my NLP training and another class in hypnosis. And of course my studying will never cease.

Otherwise, thank you everyone for your valuable input!! I know I have a lot to learn but I promise to keep an open mind as I progress.

[Merlin]

Great!
We love to help :)
You made my day :) :)

[Terry]

Great!
We love to help :)
You made my day :) :) Glad Merlin said that, because I too am heartened by your attitude, even as I recognise that your intitial training is sadly lacking in some areas so that working with clients is not recommended without more practise. How to get practise without putting a client in danger? Well use the imagination you are expected to use to prepare for a client, but do so to advance your reactions. Don calls this, " the assumption of excellence", which is the final outcome of such practise....
Imagine situations that MIGHT arise, and deal with them confidently, and without scripts, they are something I am death on, simply because they show lack of imagination, and take away from concentration on the most important part of therapy, the client.
Some, and I am one such, had the good fortune to have a group of skilled persons to guide us as we developed our abilitities, you won;t always be so lucky, so be better prepared in the future.
Use the folks here as your group, and learn from them instead of making your mistakes at the expense of the client...Remember, training, continual study, imagined experiences, actual experiences, and finally Excellence... This is the path to follow so DO it, and you will become the best you can be and in great demand....Fail one of these steps, and you deviate from that path of excellence and become mediocre..... I promise you, I study, imagine possible outcomes, and take my time over every research path I take before doing an actual test of my premise. I will never presume I am good enough, or know it all well enough to bypass a step on my journey even after more than fourty years of "practice". To do so would make me an idiot, and I promise you, my mother did not produce a fool....:eek:

[paulcola]

Great words of wisdom Terry. Thank you for taking the time to share that. I will refer back to this thread many times because of all of thoughts, opinions, and powerful advice given (and now carved into time on the internet).

I've realized my weaknesses and will follow the paths necessary to strengthen them.

I look forward to posting here in the future with my messages of success!

Respect to you all.

[Simple Guy]

"I look forward to posting here in the future with my messages of success!"
--Paul

Hi Paul,

The above is what I was waiting for you to say. I'll be looking forward
to it. :)

[Poodle]

Me too. Pood :)

[Merlin]

Hey,
when it comes to great words, we're full of it ;)

[Merlin]

Welcome to the forum
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/welcome/post.gif

[AnthonyRoyce]

I suggest you go on a professional hypnotherapy course...

[Cambia]

I can't hold myself back from commenting on the misconceptions presented about "sugar addiction" and a possible benefit from a ketotic diet.

Sugar IS in everything. An orange is 29% sugar...
If a person insists on using the term "addicted" to sugar, then perhaps more correctly, it is the sugar rush that they are addicted to.

Ketotic states are NOT good for anyone, and put the body under immense and unnecessary stress.

Cheers!

[Don]

Hi, Cambia, and welcome. We hope you will come back and post often.

Personally, I don't believe in the concept of a "sugar addiction" at all. People may like sugar, but they're not going to go into withdrawals after a few hours without sugar. When heroin wears off the symptoms are quite obvious.

In the very broadest sense, sugar is in many many foods (albeit not in "everything" as you claim). However, there are different types of sugars. In general, when people use the term "sugar," they mean sucrose. That's what people put in drinks like coffee or on cereals.

However, the sugar in an orange is primarily fructose, not sucrose. It effects the body in different ways than sucrose. So I think in this discussion it's important to talk about the type of sugar and not just the generic term "sugar" as it could lead to confusion.

I would certainly agree that ketotic states are not good for everyone, but since I'm not a doctor and I don't know everyone, I couldn't say it's not good for anyone. I would advise that a person see their doctor or a licensed dietician before changing their diet.

[Simon]

As they say, balance is where it's at.

You were trying to go from one extreme (probably a lot of sugar) to another extreme (no sugar).

My 2 cents

[Cambia]

OK, so perhaps I will negate my intensive care, diabetes and nutrition training and experience in favour of NLP terms of avoiding universals! I wouldn't want to offend too many people within my first few posts! :D

[Connie]

Hi, Cambia!

A fresh voice is always welcome. Share what you know and understand with us, we love it!

[Don]

I agree with Connie. We all hope you will post frequently and share your ideas. I don't think you have offended me or anyone else with your posts.

[Merlin]

Nope. no withdrawls.
Just a coma > death without sugar.

[Candida]

As I understand it, our brain certainly does need glucose to run on, about a spoonful a day, a quantity readily made by our wonderful liver. Additional sugar intake not required.

What’s more addictive: cocaine or sugar? (http://www.hypnosisforum.com/What%C3%A2%C2%80%C2%99s%20more%20addictive:%20coca ine%20or%20sugar?)

How does ketosis benefit our body? (http://www.hypnosisforum.com/How%20does%20ketosis%20benefit%20our%20body?)

[Merlin]

That's not the whole story

[Cambia]

Define "additional sugar"...

[Candida]

I agree, Merlin, the whole story is much larger. I just didn't want the health professionals here to be relying on old information and assumptions, so I thought I'd provide a starting point for people to follow up according to their own level of interest.

Hi, Cambia. "Additional sugar" encompasses sugar, honey, fructose, starches (which break down into simple sugars in the gut).. . . The body makes it own sufficient supply of glucose without our needing to consume sugar in any form.

[Don]

Hi, Candida.

I think the communications problem here is your use of the term "sugar." Generally, "sugar" refers to sucrose. Sucrose is not the same as glucose. The body does not simply make glucose, it requires an input of substances, such as carbs, that the body digests and from which gets glucose. If you don't input foods, you don't get glucose and the body will starve.

Many foods have carbs that result in glucose. As a result, you are correct that the body does not need sucrose--sugar. But with a healthy diet, the foods and the body generate, as you correctly wrote, a "sufficient supply of glucose." The question is, what is a healthy diet and who actually get it?

Therefore, for most people, there is a simple solution when it comes to foods: moderation. Eat from all of the food groups in moderate amounts. Do not alter this without consulting a licensed physician or dietician.

[Candida]

Hi, Don!

Thank you very much--sound advice, as always. Moderation!

Besides, I'd like to see anyone try to take my last square of dark chocolate from me. A hen on her eggs, a dog with his plastic carrot chew-toy, or me and my chocolate--separate them at your peril! :p