Assembly-line Hypnosis?

[eyeglazer]

Does anybody here share the same doubts about some of these "Hypnosis Centers" that promise to help you quit smoking, lose weight etc.?

It seems to me that true therapy is the result of one client/one therapist and from what little I've learned they seem to use standard scripts/tapes on everybody and you don't even need to have extensive Ht. training to work there.

Anybody here have more extensive experience/knowledge of these?

[Terry]

It is, and always has been a buyer beware situation, which is one of the reasons this board exists, to guide those in doubt. On the other hand, to use the title "Hypnosis Center" indicates nothing questionable in and of itself, so we have no right to condemn the name, but rather to investigate the ethics and standards before opening our mouths....
Any member finding an operation which is not operating in the best interests of the client should make it known to all of us, and I confess that I have fought persons here in Calgary over that issue, but in doing so I did it under the title HSA President, and as such it was my duty to do so after an investigation of our committee. I was responsible for driving out a person who came to Calgary each year on a circuit, offering to remove the smoking habit in one session. I took him to breakfast, and promised that if he returned I would be sitting beside him when he was interviewed on a radio talk show on which he depended for promotion. He gracefully retired that day.

[Poodle]

I have a "motel" hypnotist that comes through every six months - GUARANTEED $49.95 to stop smoking or lose weight. People fall for it and then hypnosis has a bad name -- I TRIED HYPNOSIS BUT IT DIDN'T WORK FOR ME.

There is a person that has an office with many rooms and uses headphones - - put Joe in Room 1 and run tape 12; put Mary in room 3 and run tape 8, etc. until lots of rooms are full and all people are getting is a message thru earphones. Is this really any better than buying a CD on the internet other than the fact that they know the hypnotist exists and is in the same building. Again, hypnosis gets a bad rap as -- I TRIED HYPNOSIS BUT IT DIDN'T WORK FOR ME.

Sorry! This is a sore point with me. Pood :(

[Docresults]

Poodle mentioned, putting person A in one room and person B in another room with headphones and a tape.

I used to own a Positive Changes Hypnosis Center.

Yes people were put in recliners with light and sound machines and there were tapes that people came and listened to and they were for REINFORCEMENT (2 to 3 times/wk).

These same people also received weekly nutrition classes as support.

They also MAINLY got ONE-ON-ONE INDIVIDUAL hypnosis sessions with a trained board certified hypnotist. (And most of my hypnotist were Master Practitioner Level NLPer's.)

History's (upon admittance) and updates (between each personal session were taken) and addressed during the personal sessions.

When I sold we were getting about 90-95% success rate with weight & smoking secession.

(Some may say it was because of the extra training and skills I was fortunate to train my people with and yet the PCH format was a useful model to play with and it did get results. Often we got change as clients were in the waiting room and I'd come in and talk to them in a conversation before they went into their sessions.)

It has been years now since I had my practice. I haven't keep up so I don't even know if PCH is still selling franchises or what's going on with them and yet they were in business and it was to their advantage for hypnosis to work. At that time the owners I knew were good hypnotist and PCH offered a useful model to market and get prospects in the door.

To Your Best,
Doc

[eyeglazer]

....was what I had in mind, Doc. However,I was uncertain as to naming any specifics.

Apparently they are still doing franchises,but how much leeway does the franchisee have in how the center is run?

Pleased to hear that you had so much integrity and professionalism in your endeavor but I'm not sure if that's the norm (perhaps it is).

The website I looked at seemed to imply that they almost literally hired people off the streets and turned them into hypnotists.

My impression could have been mistaken, however.

[Poodle]

I would trust your work and you know it; however, the person I was referring to definitely has nothing so wonderful as you had set up.

Nice idea for reimforcement and that is exactly why I make individual CD's with no inductions on them. Clients get it every day besides being taught self-hypnosis and how to use it. With the prices I charge, they certainly don't need to come in to listen to me. Like Merlin, $$ is the ordeal. Anne :)

[Docresults]

....was what I had in mind, Doc. However,I was uncertain as to naming any specifics.

Apparently they are still doing franchises,but how much leeway does the franchisee have in how the center is run?

Pleased to hear that you had so much integrity and professionalism in your endeavor but I'm not sure if that's the norm (perhaps it is).

The website I looked at seemed to imply that they almost literally hired people off the streets and turned them into hypnotists.

My impression could have been mistaken, however.

Patrick Porter can teach someone off the street to be a competent hypnotist... if it is the right someone off the street.

To run a PCH SUCCESSFULLY is a massive endeavor. (It cost a good chunk of change $. If I were gonna do it again I'd try to get Harlan Kilstein's ad copy as they pull a lot better than PCH's stuff. (Harlan has gone on to market Kenrick Cleveland and raised his prices and fills his seminars. Harlan is now a major copywriter in the copywriting business.)

But I need to stop talking and tell you the truth as far as I know it right now. GO INSIDE AND GET YOUR ANSWER. Not from me, not from PCH's ad material but from your connection to Source, cause anything you attempt to do works a lot better when you use your reSource.

To Your Best,
Doc

[Terry]

We all need to remember how Hypnosis started. When it was called Mesmerism for example it was all show and little substance, but it worked for many. Later, when Brade coined the term Hypnosis, it was only slightly improved upon, and much existed that was "show" and no substance. Over time we have made progress, and have a better understanding of the mind and how it works, so there is less show and more substance, yet still some retain the show for whatever purpose they feel the need of it. I too went through the Chevreul pendulum phase, the swinging watch phase etc, and even today we have those such as doc mentions who feel the need to use lights and other mechanical supports to get results.
I have no distaste for mechanical supports were such get results, but I confess I part company with Doc as to them being acceptable for all therapy. When so used, the become a crutch for the practitioner, and lead me to suspect that practitioner is not as competent as I would like to see in someone practising among the general public. Therefore I would never direct someone to a practitioner who used these means regardless of how long the had practised, and would never own such a facility, on the grounds that it was not as ethical as I demand of myself...
Today my whole practise goes with me at all times, no inductions, or at least non that are obvious. My gold pocket watch is a family heirloom, not a pendulum to produce trance, and I have no need of any crutch.
Now I repeat, I have no problem with mechanical means being used as support as one makes progress in knowledge, but I do feel that those in business and using these, will never progress because ,money has become the whole game. Hence my distaste for PCH. As for Patrick, I have never met him, but since anyone here among senior members is equally capable of training the right people to become competent, I see no need to put one person at the fore in this area, and especially when he promotes a mecanical process as a permanent method of mind therapy....

[Don]

Terry, although this is leading to topic drift, I would respectfully suggest that contrary to your claim, hypnotism was never called Mesmerism.

Mesmerism--when you read the reports of the time both by practitioners and critics--is clearly a form of energetic healing, having far more in common with Reiki or the laying on of hands than with hypnosis.

Was suggestion a part of this? Absolutely, just as an MD, by simply wearing a white coat, suggests knowledge and healing skills, so, too, did Mesmerists combine suggestion with energy work.

What hypnotism did was point out that when properly applied, suggestion therapy could replace energy work. It could achieve the same or better results without "animal magnetism."

Mesmerists were successful in treating ailments for many decades. The true children of Mesmer, IMO, are Reiki practitioners and energy healers. Hypnosis is the bastard child who made good.

[Poodle]

for setting the record straight. Too many books are filled with mis-information. I know you have spent a great deal of time and effort studying this. Could possibly be a great lesson for all that read here.

Thank you,
Pood

[Merlin]

Braid himself said what he was doing wasn't Mesmerism

[Terry]

My statement was based on the theory of progression. James Braid according to my book study was using a relaxation techinque at the time, which certainly was not the original mesmerism as presented by Anton Mesmer, but I suggest it was just a progression based on research, and was still called by that name...
Now if information has come out later that I know nothing of, so be it, but if you are going to tell me that Braid came up with a new name for reasons other than an intense dislike for Mesmer, I have been living under a false impression for years, though it had no effect on my own progression:) Not that it is very important, but certainly history should be adjusted if new information is available, and if my memory is at fault in any way I apreciate the correction.....

[Merlin]

Ever read Neurypnology by James braid?

[skip]

How about I throw a monkey wrench in here?

I dont view weight loss or smoking cessation, or any number of habit change 'interventions' as therapy.

Counseling ... maybe.

Therapy ... no.

Otherwise there are a lot of books and such doing therapy without a license.

Now I admit there is a great blurry area somewhere between minor anxiety, and obsessive compulsive disorder, where a line gets crossed from counseling to therapy.

It may be hypocritical of people to try hoodia, and fail to lose weight, and go on to try, grapefruit, and on and on and still look for the magic bullet, but to try out of the can hypnosis once and conclude that hypnosis doesnt work.

But lets face it, we ARE hypocrits.

We make judgements that are completely illogical, we confuse coincidence with causation, and we out and out delete information that competes with our beliefs.

I have no problem with the $50 a night guys. Just as I have no problem with the $200/hr psychologists. Both have driven an untold number of clients to my door, and fed me, my children, let me afford cable TV, and still have enough money left over, to put some back into the community.

Have a little fun, make a little money, do a little good.

Go to the meeting, pass out your card, tell them, "I hope this works for you, however if it doesnt, come to me and I will discount my fees the $50 you paid here, so that you wont have lost any money at all, and I guarantee my work."

Where else, are you going to get that many people in one place, who want the service you provide, at no cost to you?

cheers,

skip

[Terry]

Ever read Neurypnology by James braid? Not likely Merlin, I haven't read books on the subject for years now, too busy doing rather than studying, which is why I am open to correction, since the information I have in mind is from books I read when first in practise. So long ago that I don;t even remembur the titles any more. My memory is clear enough however that I still remember that Braid practised in Manchester and mistook the relaxed state to be sleep, hence the mess we now live with as people think of hypnosis as a sleep therapy......:(

[Don]

Hi, Terry.

I understand the concept of progression in historical development, however I would contend that Mesmer was really a progression from the magnetizers who came before him while Braid bifurcated development, focusing on one aspect rather than the entire process. The result was very positive, leading to modern hypnosis as a separate science and allowing it to develop much as astronomy, which was originally a minor aspect of astrology, separated to become its own science.

As far as I can tell, Braid didn't dislike Mesmer so much as believed he could accomplish the same thing without the energy work. If anything, this was a progression from the Committee of Benjamin Franklin, Lavoissier, et. al. who tested themselves and others (they never tested Mesmer) to determine if Mesmer was practicing something real. Not knowing how to manipulate energy, but finding some success with suggestion, they denounced Mesmer, leading him to return to Austria from France where he continued his practices.

So if there was a progression it might be seen as a progression from the denunciation of Mesmer, and not by following Mesmer directly. A complete translation of the report by the Committee for the King of France appeared in an issue of a skeptic-oriented magazine.

You are certainly correct that Braid thought hypnosis was a type of sleep. Even he realized that and tried to change the name from neurhypnology or nervous sleep or hypnosis to monoideation. He failed, for which I am grateful, as I don't think I'd like to be known as a "monoideationist!

Later, Braid abandoned the study of hypnosis completely a moved from the study of the mind to the study of bumps on the head: phrenology. Although phrenology is today considered to be a humbug and pseudoscience, respected doctors used it almost to the middle of the last century. However, due to its use by the Nazis as a means of determining if someone were a true Aryan, it was abandoned.

[Connie]

I've had clients who have come to me same day after visiting the local version of PCH and disliking the impersonal concept to the point of exiting and continuing on down the road...to me. :) Fine by me! I approve of all the print advertising they do locally, it benefits me as well when people see hypnosis put forward as a tool for change.

[Terry]

Thanks Don, I probably needed that lesson in history, it will prevent me from repeating it...:D I see you point however and I doubt I would be very happy about a new name that was so distastefull to the pallet or so difficult to pronounce..Merlin jogged my memory a little also, there is much I have forgotten over the years...
I think from now on I will just call myself a "Healer", that way I avoid all difficulties such as working for free when other members of my Society are charging. Hell, I might even register myself as a church, "The Church of the Healer", it does have a good ring to it don;t you think? I have now begun to work with Cancer, while at the same time working on the other big killer, heart attacks. Should be good at that having experience five of them..:)

[Simon]

Hell, I might even register myself as a church, "The Church of the Healer"

Okay this was just too funny :D

I imagined how funny would it be if someone changed their name to The Church Of the Healer :D

Name, middle name and last name... hahaha My unique humor is kicking again.

[Poodle]

You'd better be GREAT at stopping them. You are a little too precious around here to lose! Pood :)

[Henrik]

You'd better be GREAT at stopping them. You are a little too precious around here to lose! Pood :)

Since Terry is already a five times Champion, I suspect he will be more than Great :)

[skip]

We had an idiot politician (redundancy?) who actually leagally changed his name to "Byron Low Tax Looper". He evnetually was convicted of murdering his chief political opponent, then name change having aparently proved insufficent.

I love Tennessee.

skip

[Terry]

Thanks guys, a week ago last Sunday, I made my first attempt at healing a Cancer. If I have succeeded it will be completely gone when he is tested in March, so I wait in hope for the results....

[Terry]

We had an idiot politician (redundancy?) who actually leagally changed his name to "Byron Low Tax Looper". He evnetually was convicted of murdering his chief political opponent, then name change having aparently proved insufficent.

I love Tennessee.

skip And everyone thinks it fine for you to run around with loaded guns?..Oh well one way to get rid of politicians without paying them a pension. First time I have ever heard an argument for the carrying of firearms that makes me feel aquiesent....
In Canada, even badmouthing another politician is likely to lose you votes, we are still British enough to say that such is "not cricket"....

I love Canada, Tennessee scares the hell out of me..:D

[MrOmega]

Does anybody here share the same doubts about some of these "Hypnosis Centers" that promise to help you quit smoking, lose weight etc.?

It seems to me that true therapy is the result of one client/one therapist and from what little I've learned they seem to use standard scripts/tapes on everybody and you don't even need to have extensive Ht. training to work there.

Anybody here have more extensive experience/knowledge of these?

This might not be related specifically to the hypnosis industry. But... just because there is demand for a given field does not by any means guarantee that there will be skilled people in the field. It simply means money is to be made. Money will drive people to a career moreso than passion. I found evidence of this in the graphic design / web design industry today...

http://www.google.com/trends?q=free+website+templates%2C+free+lunch

As you know there is an incredible lack of affordable web developers available in North America and many people have taken to outsourcing overseas... having seen the first hand quality of the work by some of these overseas developers I can tell you first hand they are driven by money and not by their skill...

I imagine the exact same thing will hold true for the profession of hypnosis. If you want good product. You will have to do your research and actively search for it.