Help with my view of the unconscious please

[KingHenrythe8th]

hi,

i have looked through some of the archives attempting to find answers but obviously looking through them all is an impossible task so please accept my apologises if this is a repeat question for you.

the representation i have of the unconscious seems to have become slightly factured and feels a bit edgey. could you please help

does the unconscious delete, distort and generalise ? or act as a recorder of everything ?

are there two levels to it ? one the filters before consciousness and secondly the recording part ?

when you see unconscious behaviours are you seeing a filter(s) in action ? (so the behaviour has been processed in some way) Say if someone was to move toward a pot of money ? is that showing a toward program in the context of money ?

if it does use filters then how were these initially set up ? would i have not have had to delete, dist. and gen. in the set up of that filter; which is saying 'i filter info to create a filter' then how was that first filter set up (and so on and so on) ? a never ending process of filter. i hope my wording of that is clear enough.

i have heard the the unconscious is everything i am not paying attention to. then is my unconscious flawed like i am ? if my consciousness is scared of baby spiders then is my unconscious scared of baby spiders when i am watching snakes ?

answers to just some of those questions will be a great help; you probably have a better understanding of my confusion than i do :-)

[Nigel H]

Hi

What a lot of questions highlighting your old confusion - so you may be delighted to know that this will rapidly become clearer now when you delve in to the NLP communication model.

It is unclear as to whether you have had any formal training in this area, though the nature of your questions would suggest not to any degree - so I hope I am not treating you unfairly in that aspect!

If you have in the past, then I suggset you revisit the NLP communicaiton model - and if not - then look in to it and you will answer most of your questions for yourself.

There is nothing magical about the unconsious mind in it's essence - in that it is simply that part of our mind/brain that we are not aware of consiously from moment to moment. For example - your body undertakes many functions such as beating your heart, breathing etc that you do not have to willfully and deliberately pay attention to in order to do them - they just 'happen'. This is controlled via your unconscious mind and it even works whilst you are asleep thank goodness! So it runs the body, which is one of it's prime directives.

The magical part of the unconscious is what it's capable of, when communicated with effectively!

It stores your memories - yes all of them are in there somewhere - and it organises your memories on your Time Line - which is how you know what happened 10 days a go, or 2 years ago - or what you are thinking about doing in the future which clearly has not happened yet.

You filter the world around as you take in the world via your senses - sight, touch, sound etc. and we all filter the world differently which gives rise to the NLP presupposition stating "Everyone has a different model of the world" since with so many bits of information entering our awareness from moment to moment, we would literally overload - so hence we delete those elements we consider to be unimportant. This varies from one person to the next and is done unconsciously in that you don't need to think about it, it happens regardless 'behind the scenes' as it were.

So as an external event enters our body it is filtered through deletion, distortion, generalisation, our language patterns, memories, decisions, meta programmes, values & beliefs, attitudes, views on time/space/matter & energy.

This filtering process changes the external event and leaves us with our internal representation of it - this in turn creates our state/mood which creates our behaviour and/or physiology. We can not see any external event as it truly is because through the filtering process we change it - we can only experience our internal representation of it. This is OUR reality.

So, with the tools of NLP, Hypnotherapy & Time Line Therapy (for example) we work on changing the filters and hence 'literally' change someone's experience (Internal Representation) of the world around them.

If I can remember - you also posed a question about Away from / Towards values......

Just because someone is moving towards a pot of money, does not mean it is a towards value for them necessarily. We need to understand WHY money is important to them..... If Money is important to you 'because I've never had enough' or 'because I don't want to be poor' those are items that move Away-from a negative..... rather than towards a positive. Away from values reduce our energy and also, don't feel as good! They can also often create boom-bust type motivation strategies in people, rather than constant/progressive motivation.

I hope this is of some help!

Nig

[Nigel H]

Especially - UNCONSCIOUS .... with a 'c'

:( :) ;)

[Poodle]

Such a bunch of questions! It actually will make great fodder for others to read if they will, that is.

The unconscious mind is really just a metaphor (story) that we attribute to that part of us that: (If the unconscious mind were really "unconscious", you would be dead as your bodily functions like breathing, heart beating, etc. would just stop)

1. Stores, organizes, represses memories and presents those memories to the "Conscious Mind" which will decide if it is willing to deal with whatever it is yet (this also means emotions, habits).

2. Preserves the body. It is always working for what it "considers" to be our highest or better "good". It totally LOVES us in spite of all the mistakes we have made and will probably continue to make too.

3. Works on the principle of least effort.

The Conscious Mind is the one that "Distorts", "Generalizes" and "Deletes" information as it is small and not capable of sending everything to that powerhouse in us. There is just too much garbage in the world so you can think of it like a "anti-virus, spam filter and firewall combined". These are often called "Filters" as it "filters" the information to the powerful unconscious.

What exactly do you mean by seeing unconscious behavior? Of course you see it. You see people eat, eyes blink and all of our bodily functions that we don't have to "remember" to do as well as our emotions and learned behavior like walking, talking, writing, etc., etc. What does this have to do with a pot of money. Are you writing about someone in a hypnotic trance or someone that has a "strategy" to move towards a pot of money?

Since it is the storehouse of memories, it guards your secrets and your ethics and morals as these are learned behaviors -- something that has been done or repeated often enough to become a permanent part of us. We all have good beliefs, great beliefs and some negative and limiting beliefs. Sometimes it can be tricked.

Out of total curiosity, why do you consider yourself to be flawed? That's not really writing very nicely of yourself, is it? You just wrote a post hypnotic suggestion to yourself - "I'm flawed". In EVERY way you are flawed or just certain ways. It's only true if you BELIEVE it to be true.

Some times in life the conscious mind can pass "bad information" into the powerful unconscious mind or be a "little asleep at the wheel". This is where we can end up with problems like you just wrote - afraid of a little tiny baby spider - but then some spiders are very dangerous and we need to learn which is which and have respect for those that are dangerous. It would be really stupid to play with Black Widow spiders, would it not?

How were things set up in our "unconscious" to begin with. We are born. We have two fears - falling and loud noises. From the time we are born to or through seven years of age our "unconscious" is taking in information. Isn't it amazing what we learn to do in only seven years. Most of this information comes from "authority" figures like Mom, Dad, teachers, Doctors and other influential people in our lives. They have a large 'DON'T LIST' for us to help protect us - Don't go out into the street. Don't touch that - it's hot. Don't be mean to your brother/sister. Don't be nasty to your friends ad nauseaum. Don't talk to strangers to "you do that one more time and you're gonna get it". At this time our "conscious" minds are not working really well as they have not learned to totally protect us yet. This is why it is very important to be positive and careful with children. We have then learned to trust those in authority. Not always a good idea as some "bad" information gets into the subconscious by authority figures. Teacher: You can't draw. You are not artistic. You are not musical. You are stupid. Why can't you do that? Mom or Dad - What's the matter with you? Don't you ever do anything right. Stupid Child!! (bad information in - just like a computer - GIGO)!

And, Henry, "confusion" can be a lovely state to be in. It means you are on the "edge of learning". Awesome, huh?

Did this help some? You may wish to consider studying hypnosis and NLP to take back your mind and gain very useful skills for the future.

Stay well Henry and play nicely with Anne,
Pood

[KingHenrythe8th]

thank you both for all that helpful info.

i think what i was having problems with was the idea that it is my consciouness that the filters operate on. i was thinking that the unconscious was full of all the info and yet at the same time is filtered. but now i know the filter is with my consciousness and my unconscious full of everything.

so when people go to a NLP'er for some therapy does the therapist change the unconscious of the client ? how would this be possible if it contains everything anyway ? is the underlying power of effective communication caused by resonating with the conscious filters already set up and if you want to change the client you have to change the filters ?

in answer to your question pood about me being flawed. i have a faith in the teachings of Buddhism and one of those teachings is that the world is perfect and i am the only flawed being. in nlp terms we all respond in the best way we can; so if a robber steals your handbag he is acting in the best way he can, but you are still upset. if he is responding in the best way he can then how can he be at fault ? he cant. so who is at fault for your upset ? you are. you could have stayed on this forum helping people a while longer :) then the robber would have passed by without ever meeting you. but let me just say that you are not to blame, as you are also acting in your best way..... but your best is just not good enough yet. i believe i have all of eternity to become perfect, or not, so you could say i have time on my side. hope you found that interesting. by the way i thinking of trading anne in for a newer model, maybe a jane or a kathyrn.

[KingHenrythe8th]

So, with the tools of NLP, Hypnotherapy & Time Line Therapy (for example) we work on changing the filters and hence 'literally' change someone's experience (Internal Representation) of the world around them.

Nig


sorry to post a question about something you had answered !!:rolleyes:

[Poodle]

NLP really isn't about therapy. It's much too large to be put in such a small box. It is about how to have a happier and more prosperous life by being able to communicate very well. Since 1982 Richard Bandler has been writing and teaching non-therapy and people still are not getting it. Techniques come and go and good NLPers create their own.

"They forget that life is not about remembering and reliving unpleasantness from their past, but about going forward to look at life as the adventure it can be. They're supposed to ask themselves more challenging questions, such as "How can I enjoy myself"', How can I make this easier? How can I make this fun?" - Dr. Richard Bandler It ends up in FREEDOM and freedom is something we all can use a lot of IMHO.

"Most people end up having difficulties in their life, and they limit how much joy they could have in their life because they don't grasp opportunities available to them or maximize their resources. The very way they think about things and the very beliefs they have present them from being able to achieve the best that life has to offer".

"Anyone who goes inside themselves and makes their life more miserable than it needs to be is an example of someone who chains themselves to the belief that life is suffering".

BTW, I have it on good authority that I don't have an eternity as I'm done as of this time. Homeward bound, Pood

[Terry]

The mind has no basis for examination by any of our senses. It has no mass, takes up no space, has no weight, it is invisible to us, and shows itself only by results on which we base its existance. Remind you of anything?
Much like religious beliefs, we depend on faith alone for our description of the mind, be it concious or subconcious. You must make up your own mind what makes most sense to YOU..... I might tell you that the mind has many layers, each with specific duties to perform on our behalf, but I have no way of proving this, so you must take it on faith or refuse it as a satifactory explanation.
Nobody can satisfy your curiosity unless you have faith in them, and the quality of their experiences and perception. You don;t know any of us enough to ask such a question and accept a reply as truly valid unless you are a fool....

[KingHenrythe8th]

i take yours points on board poodle and thank you for them. undoubtly i sometimes make things harder than they are. within myself i tend to wait for things to make sense within my religious beliefs before i put them through the bandler machines. i am grateful for what bits of his work i have heard and read and the freedom is a seemingly never ending one.

terry you reminded me that i should really be reading and meditating more !!:) :)

when you are listening to someone speak and you recognise, lets say, a deletion, beyond asking for the missing information what other uses could this recognition have for you ?

how good are your senses for the unconscious meanings in language ?

when i get told "someone broke the window" my mind isnt at this moment able to understand what parts are missing (who, how, where..etc..) quick enough and with enough clarity to form my reply around the unconscious information that must be there. i could ask for missing information all day but what i really want to do is use an understanding of what is missing to influence that persons model by speaking to the unconscious. do i just need to write out 'a hundred different deletions and my effective repsonses' everyday until my sense becomes more usable ?

[Poodle]

When it comes to NLP, it seems to me most people (GENERALIZATION) find it difficult when it is really is easy IMHO. Other than getting through the "jargon", it's really quite simple, easy and elegant not to mention a heck of a lot of FUN!

Just take a book - any book (novel) and read through it marking all the Meta Model violations. It's quite interesting for a NLPer. ;)

[Terry]

It seems you didn't get the point I was making. To answer your question requires only one word, but certainly some action on your part by learning more. That one word is FAITH...you have it in one area, now develop it in another. Like you, I demand to KNOW, but unlike you I do the work to find what I want. Do you likewise after first perparing yourself by becoming informed....
Ask yourself, "what in this world is good, and what evil"? I believe you will find the answer to be "Nothing", only how we use things makes them good or evil, and that is a choice we make for ourselves quite often. Instead of putting everything before the mirror of your faith, have faith that you will understand all things of importance to you if you study hard and long enough. I did, and found that the road I travelled was my reward, not the knowledge, which was just the cream...

[KingHenrythe8th]

When it comes to NLP, it seems to me most people (GENERALIZATION) find it difficult when it is really is easy IMHO. Other than getting through the "jargon", it's really quite simple, easy and elegant not to mention a heck of a lot of FUN!

Just take a book - any book (novel) and read through it marking all the Meta Model violations. It's quite interesting for a NLPer. ;)

right....i read a novel whilst identifying the violations. i can do that very soon. my identification of distortions needs some more work but the rest i pretty much have pat. my limitation is in what to do next. the only choice i have at the moment is to correct the violation. i dont have the ability to use them i other ways. i want to be able to play with the unconscious knowledge but currently i only know the rules to golf and not knowing the rules to naked mud wrestling is becoming a point of interest in my life.

terry i have just spent half an hour writing out a reason as to why i put Buddhism before NLP(etc). but i think i was missing the point again. and have had to delete all of what i wrote :)

what youre saying is because the unconscious is out of awarness it falls into the relams of faith. therefore i am free to believe what i want about it, such as learning what i need when i need to, and so should concentrate on changing my beliefs (the journey) to build what i want in my view of the unconscious (the cream). if that isnt nearer to how you are helping me then please email me some new fingers:) .

[Terry]

what youre saying is because the unconscious is out of awarness it falls into the relams of faith. therefore i am free to believe what i want about it, such as learning what i need when i need to, and so should concentrate on changing my beliefs (the journey) to build what i want in my view of the unconscious (the cream). if that isnt nearer to how you are helping me then please email me some new fingers:) . Almost... as Poodle wrote you, it's all a story, and the one you choose to believe is the right one for you. The system works, but the explanation is fluid, so open to any concept you choose...

[KingHenrythe8th]

cheers poodle and terry imparticular. things are definitely clearer. :)