Hypnosis and Spirit Depossession

[mysticwarrior]

Rather strange topic I suppose, but I read the book, "The Unquiet Dead" by Psychologist Edith Fiore, PHD and saw that she used hypnosis in her practice and found that the majority of her clients had earthbound entities which were causing the majority of their problems.

At first, she didn't believe in the things her clients were telling her. But, she used therapy to help them. Regardless, the clients thought they were real and she helped them work through it. In the end, after seeing so many clients with this supposed problem, she indeed came to believe what they were saying.

I was wondering if anyone else had found this phenomena in their practices of hypnotherapy among their clients.

This was initially what got me interested in hypnosis. Of course, it delves into metaphysics, but thought it was a good topic anyway.

Your experiences and/or thoughts?

Thank you.

MW

[Don]

MW, this, IMO, is a very "touchy" subject. From what I've seen, most professional hypnotists what to stress the scientific aspects of hypnosis, even if they have metaphysical interpretations and beliefs.

It's like this. Recently, a U.S. Presidential candidate admitted that he had seen a UFO. He clearly stated that he didn't know what it was. But since he is politically liberal, many conservative TV and radio commentators immediately attacked him, claiming that he said he was seeing Martians, or something like that. Of course, he didn't say anything like that, but as my dear mother used to say, "The second liar doesn't stand a chance." Once the population gets an idea in its collective head, a "meme," it stands and is almost impossible to defeat. Hence, President Ford was a klutz (actually he was a college athlete), Vice-President Quayle was stupid (he wasn't, although his self-deprecating jokes and misstatements made him seem that way), comedian Jack Benny was a miser (that was his character, in person he was generous), comedian Groucho Marx ad-libbed outrageously on his TV show (it was scripted), etc.

There are two aspects to your question, really. First, do people have beliefs such as described in Edith Fiore's book? Absolutely. Second, do the concepts presented in those beliefs, such as "earthbound entities," have an objective reality?

For this I have to give a sort of cop-out answer. IMO, from a hypnotherapeutic point of view, the objective reality of such phenomena is as irrelevant as whether or not past lives are objectively real. From my point of view, all that matters is the client believes it and/or experiences it while in hypnosis, and I can effectively work with that to help the client achieve desired changes.

Parts therapy assumes a model of the mind having different "parts," each of which being capable of working in different ways, sometimes--unknowingly--in opposition to the needs, wants, and well being of the client. I find Parts Therapy very practical and useful. I deal with the part(s) of the mind that are not "behaving" as desired and get them to work for the benefit of the whole.

Now, do I think there are literally "parts" of the mind? No, I believe that the mind in unitary and unlimited. But our conscious minds need some way of dealing with that lack of limitation, so we conceive of the unconscious as having parts. Personally, I even question the concept of conscious/unconscious minds. I would contend they are one and can do unlimited things, but the way we are "set up" requires us to think in terms of a conscious/unconscious dichotomy.

The thing is, the concepts of conscious/unconscious minds, past lives, earthbound entities, etc. can be incredibly useful in a therapeutic setting--especially when introduced by the client. I use what is given.

[John B.]

The school that I trained at offers a course in Spirit Releasement as part of their hypnosis curriculum, although I did not take it. We did cover the subject in less depth during the Past-Life classes where I witnessed more than one releasement.

Is it real or a metaphor from the subconcious? I don't think it makes a difference. You deal with it in the context in which it is presented.

[mysticwarrior]

MW, this, IMO, is a very "touchy" subject. From what I've seen, most professional hypnotists what to stress the scientific aspects of hypnosis, even if they have metaphysical interpretations and beliefs.

It's like this. Recently, a U.S. Presidential candidate admitted that he had seen a UFO. He clearly stated that he didn't know what it was. But since he is politically liberal, many conservative TV and radio commentators immediately attacked him, claiming that he said he was seeing Martians, or something like that. Of course, he didn't say anything like that, but as my dear mother used to say, "The second liar doesn't stand a chance." Once the population gets an idea in its collective head, a "meme," it stands and is almost impossible to defeat. Hence, President Ford was a klutz (actually he was a college athlete), Vice-President Quayle was stupid (he wasn't, although his self-deprecating jokes and misstatements made him seem that way), comedian Jack Benny was a miser (that was his character, in person he was generous), comedian Groucho Marx ad-libbed outrageously on his TV show (it was scripted), etc.

There are two aspects to your question, really. First, do people have beliefs such as described in Edith Fiore's book? Absolutely. Second, do the concepts presented in those beliefs, such as "earthbound entities," have an objective reality?

For this I have to give a sort of cop-out answer. IMO, from a hypnotherapeutic point of view, the objective reality of such phenomena is as irrelevant as whether or not past lives are objectively real. From my point of view, all that matters is the client believes it and/or experiences it while in hypnosis, and I can effectively work with that to help the client achieve desired changes.

Yes, that was her approach as well. She worked with the patients' experiences whether or not it was objectively real. What she would do was have a "conversation" with the supposed entity, offer suggestions and options for that supposed entity and when the session was over the patient felt wonderful and didn't experience the same negative things as before.

Parts therapy assumes a model of the mind having different "parts," each of which being capable of working in different ways, sometimes--unknowingly--in opposition to the needs, wants, and well being of the client. I find Parts Therapy very practical and useful. I deal with the part(s) of the mind that are not "behaving" as desired and get them to work for the benefit of the whole.

Sounds very practical. I'm glad it is useful to your clients. That's the goal (their goal).

Now, do I think there are literally "parts" of the mind? No, I believe that the mind in unitary and unlimited. But our conscious minds need some way of dealing with that lack of limitation, so we conceive of the unconscious as having parts. Personally, I even question the concept of conscious/unconscious minds. I would contend they are one and can do unlimited things, but the way we are "set up" requires us to think in terms of a conscious/unconscious dichotomy.

The thing is, the concepts of conscious/unconscious minds, past lives, earthbound entities, etc. can be incredibly useful in a therapeutic setting--especially when introduced by the client. I use what is given.

Yes, even though she herself didn't initially believe that these things objectively were real she found a way to use it to benefit the patient.

Thank you.

MW

[mysticwarrior]

The school that I trained at offers a course in Spirit Releasement as part of their hypnosis curriculum, although I did not take it. We did cover the subject in less depth during the Past-Life classes where I witnessed more than one releasement.

Is it real or a metaphor from the subconcious? I don't think it makes a difference. You deal with it in the context in which it is presented.
Thanks John.

Since you may not practice spirit releasement, do you practice the past-life therapy that you covered? Just wondering if you had that experience with clients who suggested you use this kind of therapy with them to explore that.

Thanks again.

MW

[John B.]

Since you may not practice spirit releasement, do you practice the past-life therapy that you covered? Just wondering if you had that experience with clients who suggested you use this kind of therapy with them to explore that.


I do not solicit clients seeking spirit releasement, and if a potential client were to call with such a request, I'd most likely refer them to someone "more attuned" to that type of work. That does not mean that I am not capable or would not deal with such a situation if it came up in some of other aspect of a client's therapy.

I find the term past-life to be ambiguous. Many people associate the term exclusively with "previous life." I take past-life to mean any time prior to now, so for me past-life therapy is synonomous with any form of regression therapy. Yes, I do regression therapy, but it is rarely my initial approach.

I was trained in a transpersonal approach to hypnotherapy and prefer to take a less invasive course initially. Why stir something up from the past if there
is no need to?

Generally speaking, since I'm in the role of therapist, while I'll entertain a client's request for a particular modality of treatment, I'll make the decision on how to proceed based upon what I believe will be most beneficial for the client.

[mysticwarrior]

I do not solicit clients seeking spirit releasement, and if a potential client were to call with such a request, I'd most likely refer them to someone "more attuned" to that type of work. That does not mean that I am not capable or would not deal with such a situation if it came up in some of other aspect of a client's therapy.

I find the term past-life to be ambiguous. Many people associate the term exclusively with "previous life." I take past-life to mean any time prior to now, so for me past-life therapy is synonomous with any form of regression therapy. Yes, I do regression therapy, but it is rarely my initial approach.

I was trained in a transpersonal approach to hypnotherapy and prefer to take a less invasive course initially. Why stir something up from the past if there
is no need to?

Generally speaking, since I'm in the role of therapist, while I'll entertain a client's request for a particular modality of treatment, I'll make the decision on how to proceed based upon what I believe will be most beneficial for the client.
Thank you for sharing John. That's exactly what I was wondering.

MW

[skip]

How about entering into the clients model and working from within that?

If they believe and little green whatevers, then as long as it doesnt negatively impact their life; have the little green whatevers give them instructions to have a great life.

skip

[mysticwarrior]

How about entering into the clients model and working from within that?

If they believe and little green whatevers, then as long as it doesnt negatively impact their life; have the little green whatevers give them instructions to have a great life.

skip
Exactly, as was and is Fiore's work. She doesn't look for spirit possession and doesn't even care if it's objectively real (though she does). So, she is working within their model. In other words, she doesn't use a script and use direct suggestion in her work. She's a psychologist, not a hypnotherapist, but uses hypnosis as a tool. Her experience of the "little green whatevers" was that they were always negative and destructive, completely unwilling to give positive instructions to the client/patient and routinely traumatized them.

MW

[Don]

Her experience of the "little green whatevers" was that they were always negative and destructive, completely unwilling to give positive instructions to the client/patient and routinely traumatized them.


Interesting.

What does that say about her and the clients/patients drawn to her?

[skip]

Her experience and mine are vastly different.

cheers,

skip

[mysticwarrior]

Interesting.

What does that say about her and the clients/patients drawn to her?

I'm not sure of the inference. I don't know how the people chose her, i.e. if they were referred to her, etc. She's a practicing clinical psychologist, so I imagine she has them come from different backgrounds and needs. Hypnosis is only one of her tools to help her client. If her clients come to her and she sees the need to use hypnosis she will do so.

Not every patient she sees has the issue of possible negative entities. I would rather her represent herself through her work. I would share the introduction but that is against copyright laws and I don't have her permission. She explains in the introduction how she came to deal with these things.

To not know her patients and the circumstances it would be remiss of any of us to substantiate or unsubstantiate her claims and abilities as a psychologist. She gives transcripts of actual sessions, so you could investigate it yourself and see if your experience and understanding match hers or differs from hers. Better yet, read the entire work and she if you think she's delusional, incompetent or a good practitioner.

MW

[mysticwarrior]

Her experience and mine are vastly different.

cheers,

skip
Thank you Skip. That's why I asked in the first post what was other people's experience and thoughts with this in their own practice. I was curious from other professionals (such as exist on this board, including you) about their own dealings with this supposed phenomena. I personally find it fascinating.

MW

[mysticwarrior]

Sorry for the double post, but since I can't edit...

Many of the patients displayed symptoms of DID when they first came to her (first visit). They remarked about feeling like someone else was living with them, talking with them, etc. She was able to help many of them after their first visit using hypnosis and treating the "alter" as if it was a patient also in just as much need of help as the "host".

MW

[skip]

Just to be clear, when I say my experience is different from hers it is in that 'the little green whatevers' are neither good nor bad, they simply have their 'own' "agenda", which may or may not be good or ill.

It is when you 'enter into that reality' and work from within it (whatever 'it' may be) you can use that reality without having to oppose it.

When you do it this way, it doesnt matter whether that reality is factual or hallucinated.

cheers,

skip

[Don]

Well, since we're getting metaphysical here, I have found--as have others that I've talked with in a variety of behavior-change healing modalities, that the people needing the work are often "drawn" to--in some way--healers/therapists who need to go through helping those particular situations.

Hypnotherapy is not "hypnotist does to client," but is "hypnotist and client working together to help client." The implication is that the hypnotist/therapist gets something (other than just a fee) from the particular work.

Not always true, but surprisingly true in many situations.

[mysticwarrior]

Well, since we're getting metaphysical here, I have found--as have others that I've talked with in a variety of behavior-change healing modalities, that the people needing the work are often "drawn" to--in some way--healers/therapists who need to go through helping those particular situations.

I have found this to be the case from my own dealings with people. My view of the universe from what I have personally experienced is that people that come to me do so for a reason that is beyond my ability to completely understand at that time. Even in a non-professional situation people have been drawn to me and I to them because there's work to be done. Both of us benefit and grow through that interaction. Both my wife and I practice healing in various ways. I see hypnosis as another valuable tool among many that brings wellness to people's lives, including mine. That's my goal.

Hypnotherapy is not "hypnotist does to client," but is "hypnotist and client working together to help client." The implication is that the hypnotist/therapist gets something (other than just a fee) from the particular work.

Not always true, but surprisingly true in many situations.
Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Each party benefits beyond the superficial aspects. Deep healing and growth often take place which is far greater than anything money can buy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

MW

[mysticwarrior]

Just to be clear, when I say my experience is different from hers it is in that 'the little green whatevers' are neither good nor bad, they simply have their 'own' "agenda", which may or may not be good or ill.

It is when you 'enter into that reality' and work from within it (whatever 'it' may be) you can use that reality without having to oppose it.

When you do it this way, it doesnt matter whether that reality is factual or hallucinated.

cheers,

skip
Thanks for clarifying, Skip. That clears it up for me. It's difficult sometimes in this medium to get a clear understanding of what another person's intent and meanings are.

Edith had one case where a surgeon died and supposedly attached himself to a baby being born in the hospital where he worked. The baby was having health problems and the surgeon erroneously thought that if he attached to her that he could help her get through it.

Once she was able to help this surgeon see the detrimental effect that he was having on the now 21 year old young lady, Edith was able to counsel him to move on. She helps these alters or entities heal their problems because she believes that if she heals the alter she also heals the host/client.

Again, this is one case she has written about and is part of her reality with the patient. In this case the surgeon/alter/whatever was trying to help instead of hurt, but unintentionally caused her some real problems.

It's really a fascinating read. I was reluctant to read it thinking it was perhaps hogwash, but it definitely made an impression on me. And based on my experiences which are similar in many respects, I find her views and mine harmonious.

I never want to close my mind to the possibilites and I admire that in others.

MW

[Merlin]

Yes, I have experienced 'other entities' in my work with hypnosis.

[mysticwarrior]

Yes, I have experienced 'other entities' in my work with hypnosis.
Thanks Merlin. I can't imagine it would be an isolated incident for Edith, whether or not it is objectively real. I won't ask you specifics because it's enough to know you've experienced something similar. I've had 9 experiences like what Edith describes. I have found it to be a satisfying thing to help the person(s) involved.

MW