Any advice or opinions

[MrDigital]

I have a friend who plays professional poker for a living. He plays high-stakes games and he plays hard when it comes to the drink, basically when he's winning good he likes to live the high life.

Eventually the high life and the losing sessions when not playing at his optimal started to take their toll. As a result his emotions were shattered as well as the relationship with his girlfriend who is very supportive. He came to see me one day and it wasn't long before the ' presenting problem' presented itself. I did some timeline work with him eventually using the drop through technique and watched a man change literally in seconds from what seemed a brink of despair to a shining light of hope.

I was pleased with the work that had taken place in front of me but I had asked him to do a few things for me prior to the work, which he didn't do. My first thought when I realised that he had not done the work I had tasked was that he was not really ready to make the changes he had said were so important to him. However, I placed that thought to one side and carried on with my work knowing I could help him.

A month passed by and on a couple of occasions I tried to make contact with him to see how he was getting on. He was absolutely tiptop and so much so that he was too busy really to take the time to talk through the change work that had taken place. I didn't charge for the work I was just glad to know he was doing well.

Anyway, I received a call tonight from him at the depths of despair. He stated that everything is turned back on him and all feel is 10 times worse than it did before. This time I got the sense he really does want to change and to keep the change and hold on to it. He explained that he feels like a failure and he keeps letting people that he loves down and that there is no way out. I kept the conversation going for a while picking out keywords phrases of etc. then arrange for him to come down next Thursday so that we could deal with the problems and set up a follow-up process on any action points and what has/hasn't been achieved.

He is completely broke and payment is out of the question. I told him I'd worked with him only if he made a commitment to me to change. There is a good code of honour amongst poker players and I told him that once he was back playing winning poker then he could pay me what he thought I was worth.


Any thoughts, anyone?

P.S. sorry about the length of the thread but I have been using some amazing software called Dragon naturally speaking and I can't believe how effective it is.... However, the thread is serious and any advice or opinions are always appreciated...

Regards

Mr d

[Henrik]

Hi, MrDigital.

I don't have any advice... just an observation. Poker players and stock traders have many things in common. One is that very few can perform consistently over time. I worked as a professional stock trader in a pretty large brokerage and know that it is a very hard profession.

Unless you are one of the very best it is my firm belief, based on what I have seen and experienced, that you will get "eaten alive" sooner or later. That counts for professional poker players as well.

Just some thoughts...

Henrik

[Poodle]

Usually people do not put value on help you give them without a charge. This does not necessarily equate to money. Is there something this chap can do for you or the world in return for your work? It reads like the drunk that only wants to stop alcohol when drunk. Now he can have something worthwhile to blame his troubles on YOU!

[skip]

Mr.D,

OK I got his away from strategy, what is his towards?

Remember the further away from the pain, the more likely he is to slow down unless he is getting 'closer' to something that is pulling him on.

skip

[MrDigital]

Henrik, I tend to agree with you there. I play poker semi-professionally however it is more of a recreation that earns me a few pounds and something to which I can practise my calibration skills.

Poodle, I have started mentoring professional poker players and I intend to use this opportunity to gain a testimonial.

Skip, thanks for the wise words...

Mr D.

[Merlin]

I would say, in this case especially.
Without a towards, the motivation will only be proportional to the pain, unless there is also a towards/goal.

[MrDigital]

Talking about his bus/mind - He has touched on NLP theory..



Client: i drive it for a while then crash
Client: then it takes ages to get back to where i want to be
Client: well i have to start all over again
Wayne Marsh: its just the realisation that were fluid people and we can change easily - for some reason most of us think it should be hard
Wayne Marsh: so as you sit there zoned in and with access to your resources
Client: drink
Client: makes me enjoy myself
Wayne Marsh: ok, it makes you enjoy yourself
Wayne Marsh: for what purpose ?
Client: to get away from poker
to get away from poker...
Client: cheer me up
Wayne Marsh: cheer you up, for what purpose ?
Client: coz i'm depressed
Wayne Marsh: so its not to get away from poker ?
Client: poker is part of the problem
Client: being lonely
Wayne Marsh: poker is part of what problem ?
Client: drinking hard to forget about it
Client: i find it hard to switch off after a loss
Client: so if i drink a lot i forget about it
Wayne Marsh: what specifically are you wanting to forget about ?
Client: money
Wayne Marsh: how specifically ?
Wayne Marsh: money ?
Client: just money doesn't make me happy, when i go out i waste so much on others
Wayne Marsh: how does having money cause you to feel unhappy ?
Client: coz clare won't enjoy it with me
Client: she doen't want me to spend it on her
Client: and goes mad when i waste it
Wayne Marsh: a vicious circle
Client: so at times i don't know what to do with it
Wayne Marsh: is it poker your escaping ?
Client: fear of money
Wayne Marsh: how is it a problem ?
Client: poker or the fear of money?
Wayne Marsh: whateer problem surfaces as the dominant one for you
Wayne Marsh: is it poker ?
Wayne Marsh: money?
Wayne Marsh: clare ?
Wayne Marsh: you ?
Client: clare hates me having money
Client: she's happiest when i'm skint
Wayne Marsh: bless
Wayne Marsh: thats a nice girl to have ny your side
Client: yes i know
Client: maybe she feel she has control over me then
Client: feels
Wayne Marsh: maybe
Wayne Marsh: how do you feel
Client: useless
Client: worthless
Client: failure
Wayne Marsh: useless
Wayne Marsh: worthless
Wayne Marsh: failiure
Wayne Marsh: when ?
Client: when i have no money
Wayne Marsh: and when you do how do you feel ?
Client: at 1st good
Wayne Marsh: and
Client: something happens and it's back to skint
Wayne Marsh: what specifically happens ?
Client: i start losing my focus and goals
Wayne Marsh: how specifically?
Client: because they are short term
Client: i can't see my long term furture with clare
Client: no matter how hard i try and don't know where we will be in 10yrs time
Wayne Marsh: ok - what stops you from seeing your future ?
Client: i see my future, playing golf in spain
Client: i can't see clare there
Client: i'm on my own
Wayne Marsh: is she in the villa making bacon and eggs
Client: lol
Wayne Marsh: so you have the ability to see your future
Wayne Marsh: agree ?
Client: yes
Wayne Marsh: is it bright ?
Client: it is, blue skys bright green grass
Wayne Marsh: no poker ?
Client: i can't see poker
Client: just golf
Wayne Marsh: your passion ?
Client: yes
Wayne Marsh: ok
Wayne Marsh: task 1
Wayne Marsh: i want you to think about what specifically you want to achievw
Wayne Marsh: not at this moment as green grass and blue skies is a start
Client:
Wayne Marsh: and write it down stated in the positive with all the VAK's added to it
Wayne Marsh: can you do that for the thursday
Client: yes
Wayne Marsh: you can always add clares and other things as you go along
Wayne Marsh: its up to YOU
Wayne Marsh: its what YOU want
Client: ok she's wearing stockings
Wayne Marsh: not anyone else
Wayne Marsh: lmao
Client: **** she is now
Client: !!
Wayne Marsh: I will show you some self application stuff
Wayne Marsh: now here's the biggy
Wayne Marsh: regarding your problem - I want you to wite down a short life history including any events that were significant to you (both positive and negative). Write about your whole life and pay attention to your current problem...
Wayne Marsh: Do not write exclusively about your problem - its about YOU discovering any patterns... I do not need to see any of this if you dont want - i work content free
Client: ok
Wayne Marsh: this is all about YOU - the reason i call it a biggie is if you really want to make changes in your life you have to commit yourself to break through any barriers - or break FREE
Client: so from the earliest i can remember anything significant in my life?
Client: to present?
Wayne Marsh: yes
Wayne Marsh: when you have done so give me a shout and I will ask you some more stuff
Client: ok
Wayne Marsh: whenever you are ready
Client: i'll start it 2morro
Wayne Marsh: good man - now
Wayne Marsh: if we get most of this stuff out of the way
Wayne Marsh: i intend thursday to be a clean up job that we can move forwards with
Client: ok cheers mate
Client: u might get a mention lmao
Client: toshi 2 outer
Client: Grrrrrrrrr
Wayne Marsh: lol
Wayne Marsh: just one thing to consider.........
Wayne Marsh: before we meet up....
Wayne Marsh: your past is a metaphor - what your memory produces for you is your take on what happened but you know through your study that we delete / distort / and generalise
Wayne Marsh: if you studied ?
Client: yes
Client: = internal rep
Client: state
Client: physiology
Client: = behavoir
Wayne Marsh: so your past doesn't exist its just a metaphor and when we work we'll be working with the metaphors of the past THAT YOUR UNCONSCIOUS WANTS US TO WORK WITH ..
Wayne Marsh: Now i am off to bed but before i go
Wayne Marsh: Mark, do this for your dad for clare for mum for dog for neighbours left foot and for me, but most of all do it for yourself and your world will change i promise
Client: i will
Wayne Marsh: then hopefully i will meet 19 year old samanthas instead blokes posing online as birds (a joke we have between us don’t look into it please) J
Client: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Wayne Marsh: l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l

[MrDigital]

He attempted suicide...

One thing I knew for sure is it was serious **** he was dealing with, hence my request for advice...

[Terry]

He attempted suicide...

One thing I knew for sure is it was serious **** he was dealing with, hence my request for advice... I see one HUGE problem here, so let me reiterate to ensure perfect understanding....
You have a friend whom you have attempted to help, and failed?
This friend has now attempted suicide, so we have a serious situation?
You first action is to come here to a bunch of practitioners who know nothing about this person, and are distant, therefore unable to ask questions directly. Did I get it all?
Now what makes you suppose that this is a proper action for someone to do to a friend? If you can;t offer perfect therapy, ie therapy from a local source, why would you suppose that our efforts are sufficient?
Call me a suspicious old bugger, but I suspect this is a made up story, to get some free training. Nobody in their right mind would do such a thing to a friend as to ask for second class help instead to taking instant action to prevent further attempts at suicide. I know what I would do when faced with that situation, and it isn't to go online and ask strangers....

[MrDigital]

Terry, Yes I have a friend who I attempted to assist a few months ago. He's a friend in the sense of in the poker community someone who I have established a deeper relationship with. He travelled the length of the country to come and see me for advice regarding his professional poker career and he wasn't in a very good state of mind. I did some work with him and if you go back to the first thread, I was pleased with the work that had taken place in front of me but I wasn't convinced. Now, he didn't come to me as a client, he came as a pretty desperate person wanting advice - I gave it. I didn't charge, it wasn't work, it was me, it was who I am.

Back to the first thread:
A month passed by and on a couple of occasions I tried to make contact with him to see how he was getting on. He was absolutely tiptop and so much so that he was too busy really to take the time to talk through the change work that had taken place. I didn't charge for the work I was just glad to know he was doing well.

And the above statement is all I had until:
I received a calt from him at the depths of despair. He stated that everything is turned back on him and all feel is 10 times worse than it did before. This time I got the sense he really does want to change and to keep the change and hold on to it. He explained that he feels like a failure and he keeps letting people that he loves down and that there is no way out. I kept the conversation going for a while picking out keywords phrases of etc. then arrange for him to come down next Thursday so that we could deal with the problems and set up a follow-up process on any action points and what has/hasn't been achieved.

And then I proceeded to ask - any thoughts anyone?

In the meantime I get some response to my thread and decide to post up a transcript of a general chat we had before the first time I'd seen him. I thought it could be viewed in bad taste but if anybody spotted anything it may have offered leverage in a least getting him some assistance. He wouldn't see or tell anyone else how he was feeling, he would just ring me and I would be soundboard trying to get things off his chest. I was ringing him asking him for information and sending in e-mails for him to respond before we met on the Thursday. I put my full day on hold to help in any way I could and I Thursday tea-time I know we decided not to bother coming.

I checked my e-mail inbox and there it was:
Hi mate I'm really sorry to have ****ed you about, it was out of order not to contact you and tell you.

After that phone call we had on Thursday it went really down hill since that (Drink etc) after an all day drinking session on Monday/Tuesday morning i went home and took a load of tablets :( I know it was wrong but i just wanted to get away from it all, it took me to Thursday to fully recover and i totally forgot about our meeting.

I've had heart to hearts with all my family and told them everything and it's made me realise whats important in life, it's a huge weight off my shoulders....I'm really looking forward to Xmas now with all the family together.

After I've sold my house I'm willing to spend some time with you (a week, 2weeks or however long it takes) helping you at work or even on your new house etc in return for your services.....If that's ok with you?

I hope you and your family have a great Xmas and New Year.


All the best

I see one HUGE problem here, so let me reiterate to ensure perfect understanding....You have a friend whom you have attempted to help, and failed?
YES
This friend has now attempted suicide, so we have a serious situation?
YES
You first action is to come here to a bunch of practitioners who know nothing about this person, and are distant, therefore unable to ask questions directly. Did I get it all?
NO NOT EVEN NEAR IN THE SLIGHTEST
Now what makes you suppose that this is a proper action for someone to do to a friend? If you can;t offer perfect therapy, ie therapy from a local source, why would you suppose that our efforts are sufficient?
NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS – BUT I COVERED MANY ANGLES AS I HAD CHOICES AVAILABLE TO ME
Call me a suspicious old bugger, but I suspect this is a made up story, to get some free training. Nobody in their right mind would do such a thing to a friend as to ask for second class help instead to taking instant action to prevent further attempts at suicide. I know what I would do when faced with that situation, and it isn't to go online and ask strangers....
THIS IS NOT MADE UP…
I know what I would do when faced with that situation, and it isn't to go online and ask strangers....

YES, Terry you know what you do when faced with that situation and maybe if it was something you decided to do share it may have been one of the things that I didn't do that I now have the option to do. Instead you do your normal bone picking in your own unique way and talk about people in their right mind. You say nobody in their right mind would do such a thing to a friend as to ask a second class help instead of taking instant action, who the **** are you to judge what other things I have done behind the scenes. Maybe I speak of him being a friend and metaphors of ‘friend’ differ between us?

I always evaluate your threads so I can take whatever learnings may be available, however, the more I read the more I feel I am just one of those people you have put in a box and decided to keep them there…


in saying that, thanks to your response I have taken on board what you have said And I'll choose to wear some of it if it fits and I wont if it doesn't.

MrD

[Poodle]

Unlike some others, I know you have the right training and from whom.

Some thoughts:
A couple of questions that may have gotten left out of the posts. Why are you soooo sure your friend wanted to commit suicide. I don't see the words or even thoughts in the writing. It seems to me to be a conclusion you have drawn. Pills + alcohol does not necessarily = death. What kind of pills? Aspirin? Pain pills? Sleeping pills? How strong? From a MD or what?

Now, most people who DO attempt suicide really don't want to die. It's an attention getter. Your "friend" has gotten you full attention now and the attention of family members.

Nowhere in your questioning of your friend did I see agreement and then asked, if you get ___________, then what will that get you? or do for you?
That is the easiest and quickest way to get to the bottomline of the problem state. I'm sure part of your friend wants to stop and another part doesn't. Where is the parts therapy & visual squash.

Lastly, check into Bandler's propulsion work. It isn't really nice, but if the client wants to backslide you can make them feel 1,000 times worse than they have ever felt thus always keeping the "carrot in front of the nose" -- always going toward. (Did you build a toward or Desired State)

An email at tea time?? I know you have phones there and your "friend" doesn't have the courtesy to call. If he were my client, it would be a long cold day in h e double tooth picks before he got any help from me. You have failed at setting yourself up as the "authority figure".

It's your decision whether or not you want to continue with this person. Also wondering if you have taken the Master Time Line Therapy. That is the way I would go and yes, it would take a full day.

May I also suggest you post this on Chris' forum as it is full of NLP Trainers.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Very Prosperous New Year!!
Pood

[Don]

Well, I have a couple of comments that may or may not be appropriate to this particular instance, but in general may be apropos.

If a friend or even a casual acquaintance asks for help that I would normally charge for, I am very, very wary. I note that in the past I was inclined to help with the presenting problem rather than dig for the real cause. It has been my experience, both in what I have previously done and what I have seen, that if someone deals with the presenting problem only, it is quite possible that the real issues will manifest somewhere else, often in a much more serious way. A good way of describing this would be "everything is turned back on him and all feel is 10 times worse than it did before."

I think this may be because we think we know our friends already or don't want to invade what we see as their privacy.

In this case, it sounds like your friend has multiple problems--alcohol, gambling losses, financial failure, probably relationship issues, feelings of self-worth, in a failure loop, etc., etc. With so many issues I would have--and have--referred this case to someone else.

"But you're my friend? Why won't you help me?"

"Because I am your friend and want you to get the best help possible."

"But I only trust you."

"I fully trust XXX to be able to help you. You can fully trust him/her, too."

[Terry]

Mr D. understand please, you may well be in a box, but if so, it of your own making, based on what you write here, which is what we make our decissions on. I am NOT you friend, though it is possible we might become friends eventually, but I choose my friends with care, and to date you have not qualified.
On the other hand, I do care about people, and I leave it to others to hug you. ME I drive you, like it or not, I demand the best out of you or I ignore you, whichever. I allow no man to say, "I can't do it, or learn it". When you show yourself to be ignorant of protocol, or of what is possible at a distance, you display the fact that you lack experience,and I again ask, why are you not caring enough to help your friend as he deserves to be helped, and not in a manner that might lead to his death or whatever, and is certainly not something you can do, or so it seems.
You ask advise, does that mean only advice you find acceptable, or do you really want an honest opinion? If the later, you got it, and in a way that was intended to shake you up. Did I succeed, or did you just think it was that nasty old man again? If the later, it makes absolutely not difference to me, but it may well prevent you from profiting from what I say.
Yes I have dealt with alcoholics, and with gamblers who were addicted, and with people I love dearly, and in all cases, I do what is nescessary to give to them the best possible assistance. It MAY come from me, but not unless is something I feel very competent to deal with. My family, and my friends, and yes even strangers who come to me for help, deserve the best, and if the best is not me, I don;t assume I can become competent in time to deal with their emergency situation. I would be less than honest if I didn;t tell that to others, since it is how I believe it to be....
I had an ex daughter in law who was mentally ill, I could have treated her, but as ex family, I chose to get her help outside, not because I didn;t care, but because I chose to be ethical. I have a grandson who is addicted to gambling, and sadly is very good at poker, but in his case, I know I can deal with the problem based on experience and have done so. In your case however, you have tried and failed, so I ask, how many more times will you try while his life may depend on swift action?
You asked, I told you, use what I say or ignore it, that is what free will is all about. Oh yes, the same applies to your "friend", if he says only you can help him he is lying, and you are the one to be firm not he.....

[MrDigital]

I have not had the time to respond like I would like to ................

However, I like to speak my mind even though others may state it may not belong to me or I may be out of it.

Before - Hypnosis - NLP - EFT - past bum regression or total testicle re-organisation i have always believed in helping each other.

Now, when I was an IT expert I would mend peoples computers
and if i could give any advice in other areas - I did.

When i became a property developer i would develop property, however in the meantime if i was asked for advice I gave it.

Oooooh Moving on to learning hypnosis and NLP now all of a sudden I need to shut my mouth because I do not suit 'protocol' looooooooooooooool'.

Sorry to enforce my map here but I have never been one for protocol when it comes to authority. However when it comes to peoples minds and wellbeing I have the deepest of respect and want for nothing more in an individual than the best.

Do I refuse people my advice cos I'm not a hypnosis/nlper and don't know hypnosis/nlper protocol - NO. Did I fail with the poker player Terry ?
Or was he lucky enough to have bumped into someone who has tried to make more of his life and as a result rather than a suicide statistic has a ray of hope?

I like your lack of kid glove treatment it adds to the value of this forum, however, rightly or wrongly I'm taking the challenge of defending myself - not my demons.

Regards MrD

[Henrik]

Hi, MrDigital.

Some thoughts and opinions...


Before - Hypnosis - NLP - EFT - past bum regression or total testicle re-organisation i have always believed in helping each other.


Me too but how can one know that the "help" one offer really is help?


Oooooh Moving on to learning hypnosis and NLP now all of a sudden I need to shut my mouth because I do not suit 'protocol' looooooooooooooool'.

Sorry to enforce my map here but I have never been one for protocol when it comes to authority.


I don't think you should shut your mouth and I'm not sure anyone here has suggested you should either. To me authority means little or nothing as well, but that is in the sense of positional authority. If however you have a skill that I would like to learn I value such authority a lot.


However when it comes to peoples minds and wellbeing I have the deepest of respect and want for nothing more in an individual than the best.


Me too. That is why I don't give "mind advice" to people because I don't feel I'm skilled enough to offer such advice yet. But we can all be a friend to others and talk with them and care and hopefully guide them in getting proper help if they feel the need and wish for such help. Sometimes just caring can do a lot of good.


Do I refuse people my advice cos I'm not a hypnosis/nlper and don't know hypnosis/nlper protocol - NO. Did I fail with the poker player Terry ?
Or was he lucky enough to have bumped into someone who has tried to make more of his life and as a result rather than a suicide statistic has a ray of hope?


I don't know if you succeeded or not. Hopefully you did succeed. It is my belief that some people are so stuck and have so many perceived problems that unless you have been that "place" yourself or had enough such clients it is very easy to underestimate the mine field one is treading into.

As long as there is life there is hope. Sometimes the hope is fragile and should be nourished only by the most skilled. Sometimes there simply is no room for errors.


I like your lack of kid glove treatment it adds to the value of this forum,


Agreed.


however, rightly or wrongly I'm taking the challenge of defending myself - not my demons.


Why do you feel the need to defend yourself and/or your actions...

Regards,
Henrik

[MrDigital]

Sometimes it can be like we dont give any credit to what we were like before we knew NLP. We used it a lot beforehand - without knowing it, we enjoyed helping people and we had their best interests at heart; before we knew of it. Now we know a 'new' skill, we credit everything to NLP, and kind of forget what we were before; kind, helpful, and above all natural! This

I take your points seriously as I do anyone replies to any threads I create. I think maybe the fact that I'm dealing with such excellent communicators is an area where I need to be more specific to avoid being misinterpreted. As far as this thread is concerned I offered mere snippets of information and as Terry said he 'called it as he saw it'.

As for your question as to why I feel the need to defend myself or my actions my answer is as follows: the be all and end all of posting a thread in my opinion is to obtain a response. From learning perspective if I create a thread that generates responses I could least be considered to be contributing. Contribution In a way that offers learnings not only to myself but to others who take some participation.

The challenge I look forward to is that having the knowledge that I have the freedom to speak my mind and in doing so offering the respect that others have the right to speak theirs too. The reason I stick around on this site is that when I do absorb what the people say by being open to their thoughts - my personal development takes a leap forwards.

I do think that there is a way to post on this forum without upsetting anybody. Reminds me of college and knowing exactly how to waffle to obtain the results I wanted in a particular essay that didn't interest me. However, I'm not here to gain brownie points I'm here to learn and grow and hopefully make a few friends.

So thanks for taking the time to respond and my assurance to you is I took the time to listen as with any other poster. Along the way a hell of a lot of useful information was collected and a whole lot more choices placed in my toolkit.

P.S is there any chance of edit facility? Could even be one expires after a couple of hours?

Would be handy in my opinion...

MrD

[Poodle]

You can PM a Moderator and ask that parts of whatever be edited/deleted. You may wish to reconsider tho as the same problems could occur with someone else and that someone else could possibly find some clues in what was written. Your choice as always!

Be well,
Pood

[MrDigital]

Yeah Poodle thanks, Actually I was just thinking along the same lines.. Ok for bad spelling but not for pulling something you wished you never typoed...

Abaaaaandooooon Shiiiippppp

MrD

[Henrik]

Hi again MrDigital.

Yes we did use a lot before we learned NLP/Hypnosis/Related methodologies. After all we are alive and just that takes a heck of a lot of information...

I'm not suggesting not to be a friend or not help. I'm suggesting to be the best friend you can be and imo this is not to try changing anyones map of self in a therapeutic sense before one is competent to do so (and before your client wants such a thing). Showing compassion, understanding and love and just being a friend is another matter. So where does being a friend "ends" and the therapist role starts...

Personally I think I know more about this "stuff" than most people do. Simply because I have spent a lot of energy and time trying to learn some of these methodologies. This has mostly been for me and my own personal discovery. Still I don't feel anywhere near competent to be a "therapist" for others, but I do feel very competent to be a friend.

Here are two reasons why I believe one should be very careful about acting as therapist before being competent (competent does not equal a few weekend courses to me):

1. As screwed up as a person might be he still has a map that works perfectly in a sense. What he does, he do very well... it is easy to strengthen the core beliefs he already have, beliefs he already do well, both the ones he likes and those he dislikes. At the same time it can be a much more challenging task to implant new and more useful beliefs.

2. I believe people who seek out hypnotherapy often have tried many other forms of help before they come to you. So you might be their "last" hope. If you mess up, even mess up in the sense of "making no effect at all, neither bad nor good", that person might wander around many more months or years before he finally regain some new hope and try again. I don't want to be that "therapist". Instead I want to be the friend who help guide a person to a competent therapist who really knows his craft, someone who can affect the desired changes.

To put it simple: Other peoples mind is not my playground. This is a belief I have had as long as I can remember. If the dominating view around here about this was different than mine I would not visit this forum.

As for you speaking your mind I think you are very welcome to. Interaction and communication are pretty pivotal to learning and living... Sometimes I prefer to just listen though...

As for your competence as a therapist I choose to not make any assumptions. After all I don't know you very well :).

Henrik

[MrDigital]

[quote=Henrik;54431]Hi again MrDigital.

I'm not suggesting not to be a friend or not help. I'm suggesting to be the best friend you can be and imo this is not to try changing anyones map of self in a therapeutic sense before one is competent to do so (and before your client wants such a thing). Showing compassion, understanding and love and just being a friend is another matter. So where does being a friend "ends" and the therapist role starts...

Intuition?

In a nutshell:
1 Friend/client asks for help
2 Let him know the help available and what I am currently studying
3 Advised to find a master prac or above in his area if he thinks that would be of benefit
4 He books on a 1 week intensive prac course & he picks a good looking course presenter :confused:
5 He doesn't turn up on intenisve prac course
6 Advise him to seek help and be open with his family - chat with his family etc
7 Travels the length of the country in despair (cant even speak certain words) and I pop the PP with drop through technique (among a wealth of other things prior)
BTW before he came i asked him to write brief personal history - this is a test i dont want it i want to see if he does it, see how committed he is - (he doesn't do it)
8 He his meant to stay over and I am meant to see him the next day. However, he leaves at 3 am cos he says he needs to be with his family and has a lot of talking to do (his words)
9 Nothing I can do other than offer encouragement and book follow up conversations and progress updates. (I book them and tell him we have to committ to them.
10 He texts me and postpones first one then calls me and says he is really busy - life is fantastic - buzzing - etc etc etc. I say we still need to talk and try ringing him on another occasion. When I dont manage to make contact I leave it with him to contact me - i see no point in chasing him round ...
11 He's not playing poker and in an e-mail cant forsee himself doing so, i have mentored him in the past and he made 50k sterling in under 3 x weeks. Once he did that he told me he didnt need mentoring anymore - and blew the lost in 2 x days.
12. Few months down the road and the phone call of despair arrives (again)

13. Thread starts ...... Advice or opinions

Personally I think I know more about this "stuff" than most people do. Simply because I have spent a lot of energy and time trying to learn some of these methodologies. This has mostly been for me and my own personal discovery. Still I don't feel anywhere near competent to be a "therapist" for others, but I do feel very competent to be a friend.

Here are two reasons why I believe one should be very careful about acting as therapist before being competent (competent does not equal a few weekend courses to me):

What specifically does being competent equal to you Henrik?

1. As screwed up as a person might be he still has a map that works perfectly in a sense. What he does, he do very well... it is easy to strengthen the core beliefs he already have, beliefs he already do well, both the ones he likes and those he dislikes. At the same time it can be a much more challenging task to implant new and more useful beliefs.

2. I believe people who seek out hypnotherapy often have tried many other forms of help before they come to you. So you might be their "last" hope. If you mess up, even mess up in the sense of "making no effect at all, neither bad nor good", that person might wander around many more months or years before he finally regain some new hope and try again. I don't want to be that "therapist". Instead I want to be the friend who help guide a person to a competent therapist who really knows his craft, someone who can affect the desired changes.

He didnt seek any help prior nobody knew he had problems he wanted to discuss. His girlfriend was suffering via his behaviour, however. he's still asking for my help!

To put it simple: Other peoples mind is not my playground. This is a belief I have had as long as I can remember. If the dominating view around here about this was different than mine I would not visit this forum.

You do well to have your beliefs and values - John Grinder says he has 'NO beliefs'.

As for you speaking your mind I think you are very welcome to. Interaction and communication are pretty pivotal to learning and living... Sometimes I prefer to just listen though...

You do well to have your beliefs and values - i prefer to engage. And as Docresults taught me indirectly, if i can learn something of value by responding and that responding can serve me a purpose then I do so.

As for your competence as a therapist I choose to not make any assumptions. After all I don't know you very well :).

That is appreciated and till I know what your perception of a therapist is and what training hours they have accrued I will not know where I qualify :)

Kind Regards

MrD

[Henrik]

Hi, MrDigital :)

Competent... well I mostly develop software for a living and it took me years before I felt I was any good. Maybe I'm just slow? I think a minimal requirement to qualify as competent is knowing that you with a high degree of certainty will not make things worse for the client. Another measure is your success rate. If you don't have a success rate yet, meaning you're a new and fresh therapist, I think it will serve you well to be very careful about what kind of clients you take on.

Also being a competent therapist doesn't mean one is competent to handle every client there is imo. One should know when it is better to refer a client on to a more qualified colleague. I know a lot about computers, but I certantly don't know it all. Sometimes for certain tasks other programmers can do a much better job than me.

I also believe many people should not act as therapists at all no matter how much training they have gone through...

I said that I sometimes prefer to just listen. You said you like to engage. To me listening is a form of engaging.

If John Grinder says he has 'NO beliefs' I would say that is a belief. And a peculiar one.

Regards,
Henrik

[skip]

"John Grinder says he has 'NO beliefs'."

Correction, "John Grinder believes he has no beliefs."

[Poodle]

I am a female - FACT

The sun will come up tomorrow - belief (a very strong belief but at the same time still a belief)

If one has no beliefs, then there are only FACTS left. Facts are few and far between.

Is reality real? NO)
) just beliefs that allow us to make sense of OUR world
Is time real? NO )

I bet Dr. G. does have some beliefs and very constructive beliefs at that!

[MrDigital]

My words to the letter....

However, on a training it does get the mind whirling :)

Henrik, Thanks for taking the time to engage :) your thoughts are appreciated.

I wonder at this moment where we can go with this?

[Poodle]

if saying: "I have no beliefs" is only a training statement as a belief is a nominalization. It certainly is an excellent demonstration of one. What exactly was he teaching at the time that statement was made?

There is an interesting study by MRI of the impact of beliefs, disbeliefs, etc. on the brain. :)

[Poodle]

he had better believe it works or his trainings would be shams. Ohhh Myyyy! Pood :eek:

[MrDigital]

Are you sure you are a female :eek: