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Lorax
11-01-2004, 10:01 AM
I recently joined this forum, and I apologize if this post does not suit its purpose. I tried writing some of the hypnosis lists on yahoogroups and my messages did not go through. One moderator said it was "too sexy" for his list!! After it went through on one list, someone called it "suspicious". Although I can understand because of some of the websites and other groups I found in trying to get a grip on what happened to me, this is not some sort of "erotic story". It was very real and I feel scared and violated and my feelings are valid. I cannot change the circumstances of what happened to me, so I don't know what else I can say. Please notice that I am leaving out those kinds of details as best I can. I am not trying to offend anyone. I only want to be able to share my experience, and ask your advice.

Although I'm not sure if I was compelled to do something from a hypnotic suggestion, I am quite sure that I was suggested to forget things that I am now only starting to remember. It all started the night I first met her. We were on the couch. She asked if I could close my eyes. I asked her why. She said it was a "relaxation technique" that she used on her lover (who was off somewhere else). I closed my eyes. I don't remember anything after that, until my eyes were open again. I felt very relaxed, and emotionally attracted to her. After a while, she got up, came back back a few minutes later, asked me to close my eyes again. I did.

Later on that night, I saw her sitting with this boy with his eyes closed and thought nothing of it at the time.

A week or so later, she tells me that her relationship was broken up (it was true), and asked if we could go out. We were getting along fine. She was being very provocative and I developed this extreme physical attraction to her. I don't think that would require hypnosis. She is very attractive.

We went back to her place. I got upset over something mean she did. She was acting like she had no idea what I was talking about. She asked me to close my eyes. I was like why would you want me to close my eyes that wouldn't do anything. She insisted, so I did. I didn't know anything about hypnosis, but I had an inkling that is was happened before when we were on the couch. So I remember thinking "OK, I'll just close my eyes and listen and try to catch her if she starts something". I can only remember having that thought now, months later. I never did. I remember finding myself with my eyes closed. She asked if I was OK,. Things seemed different. A felt a loss of time. She seemed angry about something, but denied it. I dropped what I was angry about in the first place and I'm not sure why.

She was acting very cold and distant, and wouldn't talk about it. I felt like she didn't trust me. She let me play with her hair. Later, she smoked something. I didn't. She She was telling me I was really pretty and stuff, and became sexually aggressive in an odd way which made me feel weird. The thing was that she liked doing things to me, often literally behind my back, but would freak out and seem scared and move across the room if I tried to do anything to her. She kept telling me that she just got out of a big relationship. I confronted her that I felt like she was teasing me, but she was very rude and evasive. When I told her how she was hurting my feelings she got this big smile!! It made me very mad.

I don't why I didn't put my foot down and walked out. She lives far away and I guess I didn't want to drive all the way back alone at night. So she said I could sleep with her on her futon, but nothing else. I wanted to be with her so bad, so I said was was too upset to sleep, and asked her to hold me to calm me down. It's not like it was a mean trick or anything. She asked me close my eyes again. I asked why and she said just close your eyes and try to sleep. When I opened my eyes, I felt a loss of time, and she looked different like she was somehow offended . I asked her to hold me again, and she asked why, and I felt this strange urge to tell the truth, but I didn't really, and I told her it was because I was too upset to sleep. She said you know that's not why and sounded very accusatory.

The next morning she accused me of trying to trick her into sex. For some odd reason I said you know that only because you hypnotised me. She acted a bit surprised and said "you knew?" Later, she asked me to close my eyes, and I told her I didn't want her to keep hypnotising me!! I asked her why she kept doing it to me and wouldn't answer. She then asked if she could tell me a story, and then I remember her asking me if I was OK and my eyes were closed!! Still I didn't know what happened at the time and guess I thought I was tired. I left a little while afterwards, still not realizing what happened again. That was the last time I heard from her.

Afterwards talking to my friends I had no recollection of ever being hypnotised, or her admitting it, and couldn't even remember some of the sex stuff she did that maybe embarrassed her that I know now. I can't stop thinking about what happened. Now that I realize what she did to me I feel very violated, cheap and used, like I was *raped* I'm not sure what to do.

So I've started to do some research on hypnosis. My questions are, is there any way to discover what happened while I was "blacked out"? I would like to know what was said, and what suggestions she might have made.

While this happened several months ago, is it possible that I could still be under a suggestion, perhaps one that has not been triggered yet?

Since she hypnotized me so easily on later occasions, is it possible that she planted a trigger, perhaps a single word, that induces a trance? Am I in any danger if she tries to call me on the phone or if she speaks to me again? Since we know many of the same people, who I don't think have any idea what she does, it is likely that I will run into her again someday.


L.

solaris152000
11-01-2004, 10:36 AM
Im not an expert on hypnosis, but I find your story hard to belive, as as far as I know you cant be made to do something you dont want to do, but Im really not sure:confused:

Terry (existing)
11-01-2004, 08:57 PM
If your post is genuine, and I choose to believe it to be in case this is so, you should know that we cannot help at a distance, and the only way to settle anything is to consult a local practitioner. Find one conversant with seals, in case such is needed.

Lorax
11-02-2004, 12:40 PM
I am new to all this and I do not know what a seal is.

Also, how should I go about finding a hypnotherapist that I can trust? I still feel scared and associate hypnosis with my being violated.

L.

Terry (existing)
11-02-2004, 12:53 PM
And why would you feel that hypnotherapy should in some way be connected to your being violated? After all the persons and conditions are different, and the only comparison is the "Possibility" that you were hypnotised at the time of this experience? I have to date accepted that your post might be genuine because what you describe is possible if done by an expert. On the other hand, I would have expected that anyone who could do this would be far too good to bother, and would also be much older. However, if you feel that hypnosis and violation are to be twinned, you waste our time asking do you not? Hypnosis can only be a solution if accepted by you as such, and your post suggests you find it impossible to ask for help via this medium.....

Michael O'Sullivan
11-05-2004, 03:20 AM
A seal is when a person's mind is locked into not being able to enter trance except by a particular facilitator/hypnotist. Generally it is not ethical, for example a suggestion from someone that a person will not be able to enter hypnosis untill the next time you hear their voice, although, like everything else there will be occaisions where it is a valid technique. Elman spoke about this in his lectures but I don't think it was in his book. Regarding the original post www.popan.org.uk (http://www.popan.org.uk/) may be in a position to offer advice and assistance...

Merlin
11-05-2004, 07:10 PM
A seal is a sloppy amateurish method of preventing hypnosis by another person.
It's of no real value as it does not work if the next hypnotist has a clue.

DeborahG
01-22-2005, 03:09 PM
I am a Hypnotherapist, I hypnotize others and I myself have been hypnotized. You can not be made to do anything against your will while you are in hypnosis. You can not even be hypnotized if you're not in agreement to receive suggestion. For the most part you remember everything you hear while in trance even though your conscious mind is off daydreaming. There may be some words you miss as your thoughts wander, but you are aware of what's happening around you and to you. If I were to touch your hand you would feel it, although in the state of anesthesia I could pinch you and you would only feel the touch and not the pain.
I do not judge you, it is not my place, but maybe you need ask this question of yourself; did I participate in something that I now feel guilty about. Try working with a real hypnotherapist to find out what happened to you with this person, or just make your peace with what is and move on. I leave you with this advice, pick your friends wisely and never "SHOULD" on yourself.
Love and Light

Dizzy
07-21-2005, 08:53 AM
I am a Hypnotherapist, I hypnotize others and I myself have been hypnotized. You can not be made to do anything against your will while you are in hypnosis.

I am a stage hypnotist. I also hypnotize others and I myself have also been hypnotized. However I find your statement to be untrue. There are ways. Subliminal messaging can be used to give the conscious no chance to resist. Triggers can be inserted at a time when they are accepting to remove resistance later. Perceptions can be altered so that their will is different. It is difficult, but there are ways.

Unregistered Lurker
07-21-2005, 09:42 AM
I am a stage hypnotist.

A quote your recent post from the "Now MORE Derren Brown" thread:

"Well if I may continue the topic while still talking a bit about derren, I have found that his tecniques work, I simply listened to his one that stuck a radio DJ's hand to a table, and by using the same words I did the same to my friend! It seems to be a combination of confusing, stong dominant language, some referances to it beforehand and positive language."

Dizzy
07-21-2005, 09:56 AM
Did I say something wrong? I usually put someone into a trance before starting my tricks, but I tried his method and found it worked with them completely alert.

Hostile18
08-29-2005, 09:46 AM
I know this thread is a little old now, but having stumbled across it I feel obliged to add something.

The claim that people cannot be made to do anything against their will by means of hypnosis is a strongly contested one. In his book 'Open to Suggestion: Uses and Abuses of Hypnosis' Robert Temple argues that hypnosis has been used for criminal activity including rape, and that the seriousness of this issue is being ignored by the hypnosis community. He is strongly contemptuous of what he sees as the dangerous and erroneous belief that hypnosis subjects are perfectly safe with an unknown therapist simply because hypnosis 'can't make them do anything they wouldn't normally.'

If someone has authoratitive evidence to the contrary then fair enough, I'm only citing something I've read. However I think it is highly irresponsible for people to make claims about the safety of hypnosis if they are basing them solely on received wisdom or personal experience.

Cassandra 8
08-29-2005, 11:46 AM
If someone has authoratitive evidence to the contrary then fair enough, I'm only citing something I've read. However I think it is highly irresponsible for people to make claims about the safety of hypnosis if they are basing them solely on received wisdom or personal experience.Do you not see that you've read something that told you harm was possible and have allowed that alone to form your view without challenging it yourself or looking into it further. You should always investigate and understand things that frighten you to see if there's something real to fear.

Yes, it's possible to hypnotise someone without them realising it, but not to get them to enter into an action they fundamentally object to, such as allowing themselves to be raped. This is for the very good reason that hypnosis works with what's already in the mind, something your book won't have bothered to mention.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that the board has once again been invaded by posts of, shall we say, a certain contrarian nature over the past few days, linking hypnosis to harm, both personal and religious? It reminds me of the tactics of a certain inhabitant of alt.hypnosis. He insists on hypnosis causing harm, gets shot down, goes quiet and the cycle repeats.

Don
08-29-2005, 11:59 AM
Hostile 18 (an interesting choice of names)

You seem to be what I call an IROB (I Read One Book). There are many hundreds, perhaps thousands of books which disagree with Temple's claim. Don't you think there might be a reason for that?

But let's assume, for a moment, that this is the problem Temple claims. Where is the evidence? Why are there not thousands of criminal cases against all these evil hypnotists? Why are there not thousands of lawsuits against hypnotists? If this incredible evil in Temple's mind is so pervasive, where is the evidence?

Please note that Temple provides what is called "anecdotal evidence" based on the claims of individuals. There is no scientifically acceptable evidence to support his opinion.

However, since you have come here, refused to register, taken a name that indicates you are "hostile" (to yourself? to us?), and made a single post (as far as we know) that attacks us, might I suggest something that more fits your opinion?

Take your evidence to FOX. After all, they spend hours of time on the disappearance of one unfortunate woman, since you are so concered, take it up with them.

Terry (existing)
08-29-2005, 03:04 PM
I have made someone do something they originally had no intention of doing it's true, but I must question your assetions. How do YOU know that this person was not already predisposed to act in that manner? Nobody to date has proved rape for example, only seduction,and these incidents could easily have been predisposable characteristics. I am happy to sit on the fence here so long as nobody can offer me proof positive, and to date nobody has, nor have I seen any indisputable proof either way as I pointed out in a previous post. Now if proof were available, surely I would have seen it in thirty six years of practise and study of my craft don't you think? That I can persuade you the change your thinking is not proof of control, unless you will conceed that anyone who can change your mind is able to control you, in which case hypnosis has nothing to do with it.... Hell yes, I can make you steal if the alternative is worse, but so can anyone else without using hypnosis. I can make you murder someone if you know that the alternative is to be killed. That is why we have wars. Now stop arguing, and if it is important enough, do the testing for yourself......

Unregistered Lurker
08-30-2005, 01:33 AM
I can make you murder someone if you know that the alternative is to be killed.Or more likely, the subject will simply bifurcate between the two options in a state of moral confusion, waiting for a third, more acceptible one to emerge.

But then again, isn't basic military training about switching off the critical faculty and replacing it with unquestioning obeyance? No relaxation needed there!

Dizzy
09-04-2005, 10:40 AM
I have seen a lot of evidence that you have suggestions forced upon you. Maybe not straight up, but such things as negative halucinations and such are not usually wanted by the subject. When you do something wrong in hypnotherapy, often the result is not what the subject wanted. If this can be done by mistake, it can be done with malice of forthought.