Smoking Cessation

[Poodle]

We (our State government) is using the money from the tobacco settlement to fund this:

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO QUIT?

If giving up tobacco were just a matter of willpower, you'd quit long ago. Most tobacco users make three or four serious attempts to quit on their own.

Becoming tobacco-free means breaking your physical and emotional dependence on nicotine. For most people, that requires the support of a professional counselor.

__________ offers two free counseling services to help you quit -- one on the phone and one on the web. The _________ Quitline are private, confidential and effective. Get the support you need and quit tobacco in the way that best fits your lifestyle. No need to choose, you can do both!

Receive -
a self paced workbook
helpful quit tips
strategiess for staying quit

If you're not ready that's okay!

quitting guides
quitting calendar
national directory
pharmaceutical guide that helps you sort out options like patches and gum for quitting (I believe gum is about 14% effective and patches are around 20% - whoopie)

Tobacco users are twice as likely to quit successfully when they are enrolled in a counseling program. Think of it as a free way of doubling your odds!

There was another little booklet that tells all the wonderful things nicotine does for us -- even much more than hard drugs like cocaine. They even offered to help pay for these products that have such miserable percentages. These little joys are sitting in Doctor's offices all over the state.



-------------

I certainly would not settle for 20% effective, would you? It also stated that quitting took months and months and months.

As Skip says: There are sticks and then there are sticks! What a snow job!

Yuck!
Pood

[Terry]

But Poodle, it's FREE don;t you know?

The road most travelled is the easy one, but the traffic is terrible....

[pmdigi]

that worked for me after about 25 years of smoking cigarettes was my wife said it was either the cigarettes or her - that if I didn't quit smoking she would divorce me. I quit of course - cold turkey! - with a little help from self-hypnosis. A year or 2 later she divorced me anyway, though I never went back to smoking. Now our two sons are in their 20s, out on their own, and my wife and I are married again - happily!:)

[Simple Guy]

Hi Poodle,

The money trail (in many states) stinks as bad or worse than
cigarette smoke. I make no reference to whatever
circumstances may be present in your state.

[Simple Guy]

Pmdigi,

That your wife's threat worked for you to quit and stay quit, suggests
that you really loved her. Congratulations on your success and
happy reuniting. :)

[Poodle]

I thought you were just a very young whippersnapper. Lovely attitude. Keep it up! Pood

[Don]

I participate on another board, not focused on hyp & NLP. Some people started talking about stopping smoking. Several people became livid when I suggested that the techniques they were using weren't working and they should try something else. It would seem that they only want to stop smoking their way and they will repeat their failures until they get it to work. :eek:

In another thread the discussion got onto anxiety and panic attacks. I pointed out that they all had causes in the UC and suggested parts therapy, time line therapy, NLP and/or EMDR. Again, I got people livid. One person insists she just has the attacks and the experts (i.e., doctors) have told her that there are no causes for her attacks. I replied that they were right--there are no physiological or conscious causes. She insisted that there were no causes. I asked, "If the causes are in your unconscious mind, how would you know?" Her response was to ask me why I thought I knew more than her doctors. I said I didn't. They know far more than I and are licensed to work with the body and brain. They just didn't get training in the unconscious.

She still can't understand how there could be unconscious causes if her doctors say there are no causes and her attacks "just happen."

Ohhh, the humanity! :(

[Poodle]

of a lady that called last summer with panic attacks -- the shower was the trigger -- I told her I needed a written referral from her MD to work with her in hypnosis. I nicely explained (I thought) to her what a panic attack is. She replied: You mean the Doctors are right when they say it's all in my head?

She didn't have the $$$ and I don't take Medicare so I guess it's still that dam* shower.

Can't win 'em all! Pood

[Simple Guy]

Don,

That such people get livid isn't only out of ignorance, as you know.
Lots of folks unconsciously strive to maintain their status quo, albeit
suffering may be part of doing so. Blinders to possibilities isn't just a matter
of lack of exposure; it can be by design. The blinders can be as
big as that dirigible (sp?) that the reporter saw go all aflame,
when he said those infamous words: "Ohh, the humanity."
(Where the heck did he come up with those words from?) They
can even be bigger than Newman's mail truck (on "Seinfeld"),
when he too proclaimed the same words upon Kramer's misadventure. :)

[Terry]

There are indeed those who wish to remain as they are in spite of making attempts to seek help according to their own ideas. My attitude is simple enough, if you truly want help I will help, but if you wish to remain as you are, I have no right to force my help on anyone, and am happy to let go...
When someone online argues with me, I put them on ignore and refuse to offer any further intervention.. I have yet to meet anyone face to face who didn;t truly want my help, so it would seem that we get a very different type online where ignorance can truly be bliss, and is disguised by annonymity...
Don, you advise is valuable, so why bother with those who refuse to recognise that fact? This applies to most of those who are regulars here, so the same applies to all. Let em go, they haven;t paid you yet..:)

[Don]

Terry, the reason I'm patient with people (well, some of the time) on forums is because they're not private conversation and other people are reading them.

If someone said "I have this problem," and I replied by telling them what causes the problem and how they could resolve it, and the person then reacted negatively, if we were just on a one-to-one basis I'd just back off and let them have their beliefs.

But other people are suffering from the same problem and reading that thread, and I want them to know that there are alternatives that are highly successful.

If they want to follow up on it fine. If they don't, that's fine to. But for me, sharing the possibilities is valuable.

[Nigel H]

I participate on another board, not focused on hyp & NLP. Some people started talking about stopping smoking. Several people became livid when I suggested that the techniques they were using weren't working and they should try something else. It would seem that they only want to stop smoking their way and they will repeat their failures until they get it to work. :eek:

In another thread the discussion got onto anxiety and panic attacks. I pointed out that they all had causes in the UC and suggested parts therapy, time line therapy, NLP and/or EMDR. Again, I got people livid. One person insists she just has the attacks and the experts (i.e., doctors) have told her that there are no causes for her attacks. I replied that they were right--there are no physiological or conscious causes. She insisted that there were no causes. I asked, "If the causes are in your unconscious mind, how would you know?" Her response was to ask me why I thought I knew more than her doctors. I said I didn't. They know far more than I and are licensed to work with the body and brain. They just didn't get training in the unconscious.

She still can't understand how there could be unconscious causes if her doctors say there are no causes and her attacks "just happen."

Ohhh, the humanity! :(


If the Doctor's know SOOO much, then how come she still has the problem I wonder.

Would she rather simply believe the Doc and keep her problem, or be open to the fact that Doctors can be wrong? Has she never heard of a 'second opinion'?

Doctor A may be steadfast in their belief and she then sees doctor B who helps her get well? Surely doctor A is a a 'quack' and should not be practising? or did their belief simply not work for her in that circumstance?

Was she ever 'SURE' about anything in the past, that turned out to incorrect? Could she be open to anyone having an opinion that is valid outside of Doctor 'A' ......... hmmm

Questions ... questions .....?!?

[skip]

Try to keep in mind that belief is almost always immune to counter example.

skip

[Nigel H]

...... and - EVERYONE has a different model of the world ........!

[MrDigital]

Nicotine Patches.... I placed one over each eye so I couldn't find my cigs ;)

[Don]

Nigel, I think one of the major differences between allopathic medicine and hypnotherapy is that to consumers of services, allopathy seems to be open and sharing all knowledge but is not, while hypnotherapy seems to be secretive and closed, but is not.

Sit down and talk to a doctor (if you can get the time--most doctors in the U.S. limit you to under 15 minutes) and ask to be shown the results of your tests and what they mean. Then, when a drug is prescribed, ask why you need it, how it works, and what the potential side effects are. In most cases, all of these reasonable requests are ignored.

On the other hand, hypnotherapists are not only willing to explain everything (often in great detail), but often need to work with the client to develop the best suggestions.

Curiously, it is the mystery that is quite powerful. If a service consumer goes to a doctor and gets a prescription, he or she literally must believe in the doctor and the doctor's therapy. Otherwise, all of the time, effort, and money--as well as believing in the unknown science the doctor claims to represent--would be wasted. That is, they have a psychological imperative to believe the doctor.

So the answer to your question, "Would she rather simply believe the Doc and keep her problem, or be open to the fact that Doctors can be wrong?" is "Yes, people would rather simply believe in their doctor. They have too much invested psychologically to do otherwise."

But in some cases, or if they get a powerful enough outside stimulus (i.e., suggestions/implications/begging/etc. from friends, teachers, religious authorities, relatives, etc.) they may get a second opinion. If the opinion of the second doctor differs with that of the first, they must choose to absolutely believe either doctor 1 or 2. Curiously, they do not come to what to me is the obvious conclusion: Neither doctor is sure, implying that medicine, indeed, is a practice and a skill, not a science. One need only have a friend or relative go to doctors with a difficult set of symptoms (or watch the fictions Dr. House fumble around trying to guess what's wrong with this week's case) to realize that the latter is true, but people prefer to have blind faith.

[Merlin]

It's good marketing for MDs and counselors :)

[Poodle]

of when I had the colon cancer that we got healed here. I had a horrid lactose intolerance at the time with it too. The first MD told me my work was a fraud, vitamins and herbs are a fraud and then Rx'd me a Rx that contained LACTOSE. (He claimed I didn't know what was in my herbs and vitamins). I informed him he did NOT KNOW what was in the medication he had just written a script for as there was LACTOSE in that and he was trying to make me worse or kill me. I stormed out and did not pay the office call bill until the VERY LAST DAY. I also threw his Rx in his face!

Talk about "lack of rapport", huh? I still very much dislike the idiot! :mad:

Sad but true with a very happy ending!! Thanks everyone again! Pood :)

Some MD's here want my work and others are very much afraid

[Kaizen]

I quit cold turkey about 8 years ago. I just reached a point where I was able to leverage a lot of negative associations to smoking. At the time I quit, I was smoking about a pack and a half daily. I was able to associate, very strongly the following if I continued:

-I would die in 3 years
-I would have an incredibly hard time breathing and generally low quality life until I died.
-I'd have to settle for my ex girlfriend, meaning she would be as good as it gets for me (can you tell I didn't want to be with her?)
-My sex life would be horrible until it was non existent
-I'd never get to have sex with a beautiful girl
-I'd be a shell of a man until I died
-I'd be a push over until I died
-I'd never get to do what I wanted to really do in life. I'd have to settle for less.
-I'd be broke until I died.

I'm sure there were more, but these were so real to me there was no doubt in my mind that it was over from that point. I'm 5'11 and at the time I weighed 115 lbs. I started working out and those associations drove me. I now weigh around 190. Even to this day, if I feel like I have a slight shortness of breath, I want to get away from smoking in my mind

[Connie]

Talk about an "away from" motivation strategy!! :eek: If it worked for you, it worked for you. But...YIKES. :eek: I prefer to find out what people want, not what they don't want (especially when it's death and dying and misery and they're attempting to embrace that and make it reality)--seems much more positive and pleasant to me to think about what one would like instead, and help move in that direction. Maybe a blend of the two strategies would be most effective, a carrot on a string, and a stick smacking the rear end...

[Kaizen]

Talk away an "away from" motivation strategy!! :eek: If it worked for you, it worked for you. But...YIKES. :eek: I prefer to find out what people want, not what they don't want (especially when it's death and dying and misery and they're attempting to embrace that and make it reality)--seems much more positive and pleasant to me to think about what one would like instead, and help move in that direction. Maybe a blend of the two strategies would be most effective, a carrot on a string, and a stick smacking the rear end...

Initially, there was a faint idea of what I wanted, which was in the general opposite direction of the "away from" motivators. The interesting thing was that after I gained about 15-20 pounds, my motivation started to focus on the "towards" types. As my self image and confidence in what I could accomplish grew, the more I started to focus on going towards what I wanted. But the whip continued to crack all the way through.

I'd love to tell you that I just focused on what I wanted, but that wouldn't be reality. It was what I needed to believe to take serious action. I must've "tried" to quit several dozen times before that. After that exercise, I knew in that moment that it was over.

[Merlin]

hi.........
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/temp/smoking8.gif

[Nigel H]

Wow - 'ahhhhhh' how much away-from can one person have!??!? Spot on Connie!

Away from values can be highly motivating to get someone started in a journey towards not having what they don't want..... if that makes sense!?

The problem with them is that (a) away from motivation does not feel very good, and (b) once the away from has been avoided, the motivation will reduce and hence the old behaviour can often creep back in - as can be seen in yo-yo dieting, for example.

So, if someone has an away-from of "I don't want to be fat" .... and currently consider themselves as fat, they will gain motivation not to be that way..... so, they go on a diet and start exercising.

What happens when someone goes on a diet and starts exercising !? well, they lose weight [go figure!] ..... and this can go on until they then realise they are no longer fat. AT THAT POINT their motivation of 'not being fat' will not kick-in as readily and they may start to eat the 'odd' donut, or miss a session in the gym ............. saying to themself 'I will work out extra next time' etc. As the cycle continues they do less and less of the diet and more eating the wrong things, with less motivation to exercise.

Eventually as this continues they put on weight again and eventually realise one morning when they look in the mirror ' oh god I'm fat again' then they get re-motivated and back comes the diet and the training shoes come back out of the wardrobe!

This explains the motivation cycle of such away from values. Hence why when doing change-work with people, it is useful to ensure that the values are re-aligned after all negative associations have been removed. This will make them feel better about the changes they have made (and continue to make) PLUS give them towards motivation which is easier to stick to and more likely to be followed through on long-term.

I am glad that your away-froms have motivated you to change and hope that the shift in perception to 'towards' will happen in a way to allow you to remain focussed.

Nig

[Terry]

It's always nicer to work with people motivated by a positive suggestion, rather than a negative one, but remember, we are all different.:)

[Kaizen]

Wow - 'ahhhhhh' how much away-from can one person have!??!? Spot on Connie!

Away from values can be highly motivating to get someone started in a journey towards not having what they don't want..... if that makes sense!?

The problem with them is that (a) away from motivation does not feel very good, and (b) once the away from has been avoided, the motivation will reduce and hence the old behaviour can often creep back in - as can be seen in yo-yo dieting, for example.

So, if someone has an away-from of "I don't want to be fat" .... and currently consider themselves as fat, they will gain motivation not to be that way..... so, they go on a diet and start exercising.

What happens when someone goes on a diet and starts exercising !? well, they lose weight [go figure!] ..... and this can go on until they then realise they are no longer fat. AT THAT POINT their motivation of 'not being fat' will not kick-in as readily and they may start to eat the 'odd' donut, or miss a session in the gym ............. saying to themself 'I will work out extra next time' etc. As the cycle continues they do less and less of the diet and more eating the wrong things, with less motivation to exercise.

Eventually as this continues they put on weight again and eventually realise one morning when they look in the mirror ' oh god I'm fat again' then they get re-motivated and back comes the diet and the training shoes come back out of the wardrobe!

This explains the motivation cycle of such away from values. Hence why when doing change-work with people, it is useful to ensure that the values are re-aligned after all negative associations have been removed. This will make them feel better about the changes they have made (and continue to make) PLUS give them towards motivation which is easier to stick to and more likely to be followed through on long-term.

I am glad that your away-froms have motivated you to change and hope that the shift in perception to 'towards' will happen in a way to allow you to remain focussed.

Nig

I'm not sure if you read both posts entirely. That was 8 years ago. It's been done and I've never had an issue of wanting to go back to that old way of living. The theory that having a positive outcome be a primary motivator is beautiful and we all know that it just doesn't always work out that way. Now I am primarily motivated by what I want in a lot of areas in my life. And I think it's due to the particular stage I'm in for my personal life, not because some textbook or guru says so.

I went to a seminar from T. Harv Eker and he explained how a negative motivation works in the same way that you just did. The problem was that I immediately noticed conflicting evidence of that theory by looking at my own personal experience. And my experience was also corroborated by my clients later on.

You see, I use to be a personal trainer and I had at least an 80% sucess rate with clients that I took on (at least towards the end of my personal training career). Mostly, I believe, it was because I knew how to pick my clients carefully. I was able to discern who was really motivated to change. And I gotta tell you, most of my clients with success in the gym were initially motivated by a serious hurt and a very weak positive outcome. As they experienced success, I would anchor positive goals to that experience. However, there were some that needed more negative motivators than others. Eventually, the goal was to get them to realize that they did it all by themselves, anchor positive experiences with their new lifestyle and condition that lifestyle for their unconscious.

So, as Terrry points out, everyone's different and you must meet them in their map.

[Kaizen]

I also want to point out that your explaination (as well as T Harv Eker's) does not consider that someone's motivations may change as they do, which is exactly what happened to me. I also know that your explaination is accurate on some occasions, I experienced that first hand as well.

[Nigel H]

I'm glad we agree! .... and it's also important to note that often when someone states a value - something important to them in a certain scenario/category - that they usually state it in a positive way at first and it is not until you ask them on WHY that thing is important to them that the away-from comes out. This is a key distinction that comes to light when doing values elicitation work.

If you have taken that step with yourself to delve in to the motivation and towards/away from values, then I applaud you for being that pro-active! great that you are walking the talk as it were! .... many would not either know how to [having not been taught in such method] or simply apply it to themself in such a measured way.

Cheers

Nig

[Poodle]

Please check out today's issue of The New York Times under Health.

This should be enough to make anyone quit NOW!

Pood

[mindflip]

Hello Poodle.. Nice to talk to you.
As a reformed smoker of 25 years I always, always get more successful results in therapy by remembering how easy it was....My clients will then experience how easy it really is to become a natural none smoker.
Unlike your government I ...never mention the word HARD..If i get in a situation that requires HARD words I easy them...
EG Most situations you might find very very easy although at times things could become slightly less easy only for a short time BLAH BLAH BLAH....
Moving away and towards I double bind these for some guaranteed success they can then choose wichever way they want...

I just think it strange that the most powerful government in the world should associate the HARD word to smoking ceseation.

[Terry]

Of course it's hard. Hard on the farmer who grows it, and who's land has no value if we all stopped. Hard on the Government that makes tax money from it, Hard on those who make a living selling cigarettes. Shame on the quitters, don;t you know you have ruined so many lives, just to improve your own? Now if only I could cure my wife of the filthy habit I would be laughing all the way to the bank....

[Poodle]

I'm glad you found it easy. I did not. Want to ask me how many times I quit before I quit? I was meaner than a junkyard dog. I ate No. 2 pencils. Finally after about two weeks life became good again and it was okay to rejoin the human race.

Now for my clients I use a little pearl that Terry dropped in a year or two ago. It's only failed me once and I'm quite sure that client did not want to stop. Sometimes I allow them to have tobacco hypnotically too. Saves wear and tear on wallet and body. Just depends.

BTW, I have you beat by three years!! ;)

[mindflip]

Hey Poodle...Well Done..
I would love to know more about hypnotic tobacco allowance..This is an intresting concept...
I cant help but feel that it could work as an adverse trigger..

I hope you might tell me more. I have two smokers to do work with mon&tue...I have a decent success rate but can still improve...........


Cheers