Grief script

[prfeiger]

Could any one help me on finding an appropriate script for grief. My client had her husband pass away, then her brother within 1 year of that. I have found several scripts, but they just don't give enough so I can tailor it to her special situation. All help would be appreciated.

Paul Feiger, C.Ht.

[pmdigi]

There is a hypnosis for dealing with grief script at hypnosis downloads dot com.

[prfeiger]

Thanks for the help!

Paul Feiger, C.Ht.

[Poodle]

I have only found one script with the money at hypnosis downloads. Some of them could actually produce one very large abreaction.

Do you know NLP too or just hypnotherapy? Pood

[Merlin]

I would recommend timeline therapy to release the emotion's grip.

[Terry]

Paul, you sign yourself as a C.Ht, yet all posts from you seem to come from book reading, and not from any experience. May I ask exactly what your experience is, because anyone needing help such as you ask for should not in my opinion be working with clients unsupervised, your training is incomplete, and your "help" likely to result in harm to that client....

[Henrik]

I remember when I was a student learning to build different kinds of electrical circuits, filters and amplifiers et cetera. We would blow up an opamp, condensator or transistor or three, look in the books and/or maybe rerun the computer simulations. We had the privilege to do that.

Do one have the same privilege when working with the human mind? Title(s) or no title(s), if I had to ask for scripts when working with the mind of another human being, I would pass that client on to a more qualified colleague. That is common sense to me. But I'm a mere computer programmer, so what do I know. Maybe you are just looking for some inspiration and ideas. But still...

Henrik

[Poodle]

I checked poster's website which is listed. I cannot figure out WHY they would be looking for a script. I would rather ask my "teacher" - "trainer" than a internet forum of strangers. :confused: Pood

[Don]

Could any one help me on finding an appropriate script for grief. My client had her husband pass away, then her brother within 1 year of that. I have found several scripts, but they just don't give enough so I can tailor it to her special situation. All help would be appreciated.

Paul Feiger, C.Ht.

There are certain combinations of feelings--loss, anger, rage, betrayal, sorrow, etc. that people refer to as grief.

I would suggest interviewing the client and determining which feelings she is having about these events, and then working with those specific feelings rather than a generic "grief" script that might not apply to your client at all. Possible techniques would include regression, TLT, stress reduction, etc.

[Poodle]

Scripts? We don't use no stinkin scripts. LOL! Pood :p

[Don]

I would have to disagree slightly with that. I think it would be more appropriate to say, "we don't read no stinkin' scripts."

I use scripts all the time, to get different ideas and approaches from others. Then I adjust the basic idea to fit the client. Sometimes, I'll even make notes of points I want to cover.

This may be similar to the original post who wrote that he wanted scripts so he can "tailor it to her special situation."

But read scripts???? Not me!

[Terry]

I would have to disagree slightly with that. I think it would be more appropriate to say, "we don't read no stinkin' scripts."

I use scripts all the time, to get different ideas and approaches from others. Then I adjust the basic idea to fit the client. Sometimes, I'll even make notes of points I want to cover.

This may be similar to the original post who wrote that he wanted scripts so he can "tailor it to her special situation."

But read scripts???? Not me! But what "special situation" all he told us was that the lady had lost two people close to her in one year. This is not uncommon, yet tells us nothing a skilled person would feel nescessary to pass on if they wanted help from strangers who know nothing of that client except what they are told, yet are asked to offer a script of unknown value. What about the rules, "do no harm" and "client first"...

[Merlin]

I would have to disagree slightly with that. I think it would be more appropriate to say, "we don't read no stinkin' scripts."

I read them all the time.
That way I continue to learn from others.
I just don't read them AT clients.
They aren't magical incantations.

[skip]

I'll be the huckelberry.

It makes me absolutely nausious when someone asks for a script for '... someone who is afraid of their Wheat-A-Bix, or puddytat, or is 'sad'.

I'll always be reminded of the stupid sap, who had just met a red headed gymanst, and 'quick' wanted a script, for seducing a red headed gymnast.

So lets all give this C Ht (glowing accreditations no doubt), a script, and let him be a hog on ice.

Give Paul a script, that has nothing in common with him, or the client, and listen mentally, while he vomits it at someone who has put their trust in him.

And dont try and tell me he might cherry pick it for the good stuff.

What exactly is the mindset that 'asks' for a script?

Learn the elementrs, learn what is doing the work, and why. THEN ... reading and studying others scripts can be of benifit. Otherwise you are playing the tune and never hearing the music.

How about a school where you arent allowed any scripts until you can lead 10 people to somnambulism?

Paul, you want advice?

Post the 'script' you are using now, and point out where you think it is weak and strong. And if you dont have one, find one on the internet, and analyse it.

You will find plenty of cheerful helpful people here who would offer their years of knowelege and experience AND you would learn a bunch no matter your current skill level. There are at least 5 people here, who individually have more than twice the experience you have, and collectively ...

So do you want a fish; or the gear and knowlelge to use it?

capice?

skip

ps
A friend once sent me Wendi's scripts (a big 3" 3 ring binder full). I worked with them until I could do Wendi pretty well, and not all of them felt like the same person wrote them. But Wendi isnt me, and I am not her (for which she is, I am sure, greatful). And I have yet to have a client walk in for whom one of hers fits. Sure I learned some things from her, but it is nothing like actually learning how.

[Connie]

This is good advice, Paul. Listen and absorb.

[Merlin]

I worked with them until I could do Wendi pretty well

Had to work at it, did you ;)
Did you enjoy doing Wendi?
Did she enjoy it too?
Do you always do by script?

[Merlin]

All I can say is
Good Grief!

[skip]

touche'

skip

[Poodle]

does have some very creative ideas. I enjoy her mind and she knows it. Certainly would not want to spit Wendi's scripts out at a client. When I find something particularly interesting in her work, I let her know. Jerry has some good ideas in his Patter Book BUT I find it just sooo much easier to tell stories these days.

IMPO, if someone cannot put ten people in a row into somnambulism, then they should give up the ship, not pass the course, or DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200. That's the easy part. What's said after that is what is sooooo important and they're ONLY STORIES. Don't think I've come up with anything that surpasses The Turnip Family tho and Jack's Ricky the Squirrel. Those two were gems!

I can think of five really great stories about grief right now. Pood

[Terry]

All I can say is
Good Grief! True, grief is good, it offers an outlet for stressful moments, and should never be interfered with in my opinion unless you know a good joke or two. These also relieve stress.:eek:

[Poodle]

that had a couple of deaths in the family within a year. Her GP put her on an anti-depressant. That, IMO, is overkill. I don't know if all of the USA is weird or just where I live. Had one today that councellors said was depressed so she was on Prozac. She was not depressed. She had an anger issue that needed resolved. It was quickly resolved and replaced with great feelings of happiness, contentment. Her words: "I finally feel cleared inside and the world is not pressing down on me -- first time since second year of high school." She is one happy lady, talking like no tomorrow and giggling too. I gave her an anchor to feel ectatic for no reason at all because she just deserves it and to use it 10-20 times a day. It's totally impossible to feel bliss and anger at the same time. Now she has a shopping cart full of things she wants. Someone was not listening to what she had to say.

[Don]

Of course they weren't listening. Eli Lilly, the makers of Prozac, spends millions on advertising and they send people to doctors telling them if someone is a little upset to prescribe Prozac. After all, the patient doesn't pay, the insurance company pays. Today, most doctors spend less than 8 minutes with a patient. How are they going to listen to anything?

[Merlin]

Hi Poodle,
I've referred people to Wendi.
That was pre- Have-CD-will-fix-anything.

[Merlin]

Hi Don,
Except the insurance companies don't pay.
That's why the 'insurance' rates are so high.

[Don]

You're correct, Merlin. It only SEEMS like the insurance companies pay.

[prfeiger]

Thanks for the heads up as to that old book learning. As it turns out, I was curious as to if there were such scripts. I do practice with real people, have for some time and am mostly successful. The client I am working with has now experienced the full Break Through with TLT, NLP and hypnosis. Came in bleak and very sad, now is smiling like the sun. It is really instructive to have you good folks' help. Once again, thanks.

[prfeiger]

Thanks, Skip. I appreciate your help and advice.

[prfeiger]

Thanks, Melin. Did just that, all the traditional anger, sadness, fear, guilt, hurt. You know the drill. And as always the client responded well and released the negative emotions. It was instructive to watch as she stopped at each event and let go of the emotions. I think this is the most powerful tool in our arsenal.

[Poodle]

Client needed hypnosis, NLP and TLT? Help an old dawg out here as she is very curious - what part of TLT was not sufficient to release the negative emotions? I know my TLT textbook is somewhat old but I have a hard time believing it's that old. :confused:

[mindflip]

Hello Paul.
Is it ethical to treat grief within a year of the event occuring?

Just reminding.

Grief Stage1-4
denial-anger-acceptance-emotional relocation.

Would the more experienced therapist treat grief or find another lable to treat?

Give paul a break... thats why some of us with less experience joined this site.

[skip]

mind,

"Is it ethical to treat grief within a year of the event occuring?"


Wow!

I'll bet there is an interesting belief underlying that statement.

Just where did you come by that belief and how do you know it to be true?

And while you are at it, "Is it ethical then to treat grief at all, or should it always be left to resolve itsself in its own way?"

skip

[mindflip]

Hi Skip.
Nice to meet you.

Yes there is an underlaying belief system regarding the statement .....A year being a rule of thumb in obvious terms for the nature of the statement and yes it is an interesting belief.

I came to belive this VIA my trianing,and have also carried two family coffins durin the previous six months allowing me emotional opinion.I dont
know if others might find this rule of thumb to be of personal belief but ido.
I am very interested in all opinion hence the reason I asked.(I belive so it is true for me)

And while im at it.....My belief is that if we treat grief is it not human to
direct un-resolved long term grief towards emotional relocation.

Although im sure its far more humane for grief to resolve itself....(Every time??? ) there would be no need for a therapist/griefcounceller

[Terry]

"Give Paul a break", no problem, would you suggest an arm or a leg? After all the neck might be a bit too much. I do enjoy helping those who have less experience it's true, but factually nobody knows anybody who comes online with requests for help, and can only make a judgement base on what is requested. If Paul has an online presence, which Poodle suggests, it means that he is charging for his services, yet feels incapable of writting his own script. He requests one from unknown sources, and from people who know nothing about his client either. That tells me for sure he is a fake, and I for one have no intention of offering advise that might compromise his client.
I confess, I shoot from the hip, but when Skip says something unkind you can bet it really hit home, he is much more likely to say something kind that say s..t to anyone...
As for your suggestion about a time delay, I think it falls short when you put a time to it, since we are all different and circumstances also differ.
Certainly I am not intent on having a grieving client dancing the fandango next day, but there is much that can be done instantly and without harm to anyone.
I sing at funerals, does that mean I am happy that someone is dead? No, I believe we do give relief to the family. I see other mourners put their arms around the grieving widow, are they out of line? Of course not, do what you can for the living if requested, and though I am sure your instructor had good intentions, he or she is wrong, grief has no benifit remove it and get on with life.....

[mindflip]

Hi Terry.
Here is an intresting question....
What is the reason that so many schools of thought belive grief to be left alone for a while, my education and also other reasonable and responsible
lecturers teach this out.
I actually can see your piont of view,regarding the request for a script..
I have learned a lot for one day...I must be a very trusting person.I always
compose a script or giude lines for the particular situation and person I would not feel compelled to give those thoughts away cheaply.
I think you do shoot from the hip but it siutes you........Decent shot.

[Terry]

The request for a script bit was easy, but I am always careful as to what information I pass on, since what I say and how what I say is used, may have a drastic effect on some poor unsuspecting soul...Better I wrongly impune someone than that I give out information that will be misused....
As to why some instructors teach as they do, I have no idea, and refuse to make a guess. All I know, is that forty years of experience has taught me to think first, and not depend on advise only, so apart from what you were taught, and the respect due your instuctor, why do you feel they are correct?
I would love to hear a first hand explanation, so perhaps you could contact your instructor and ask for all our edification?
If I am wrongly taught, and give no thought to why I was so taught, I will continue to deseminate such information to those I teach.. It will still be wrong...
If I am challenged I will need to think of what my position is, and why, thus replacing a well thought out position with one done from rote....

[Poodle]

Let me give you a little statement to help resolve "grief" in your mind -- LOVE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HURT! That's one fantastic belief to keep planted in your mind. Pood ;)

[Don]

Hello, Mindflip.

Well, I think I'm qualified to respond since over the last two years I've lost my brother, my step-father who raised me, my beloved step-mother (who was doing 1,000 crunches a day when she was 75 and gave up surfing at 70 because she felt it was for young people). And last week my dear aunt died.

There are two things I would like to propose to you.

First, grief is not as easy as your post seems to contend. It can be composed of loss, fear, anger, rage, and other emotions and beliefs. A script may or may not work depending upon the needs of any individual suffering from grief. If the script is based around feelings of loss when a person's grief is caused by anger toward the deceased for leaving, it wouldn't do much good.

What you are suggesting is technique oriented rather than client oriented, and I would suggest focusing on the latter. Specifically, what is the manifestation of the grief and what are the emotions involved. Of course, you could bypass by asking if the unconscious can heal the person and then ask it to do its stuff, too.

Secondly, the "year" delay sounds like a rather bizarre belief system. Are you saying that you wouldn't help someone after only 364 days? Do you have to wait for the entire year? And what if it's a leap year?

Respectfully, I would suggest focusing on the client and not on rules. When is the client ready for assistance? That is the ideal time to help. It may be in two hours, two days, two weeks, two months, or two years.

Grief over the loss of someone you care about is a mental wound, and just as different people heal from physical wounds at different rates, so, too, do different people hear from mental wounds at different rates. What rate should they heal at? Whatever it takes for them.

I suggest the book, How to Survive the Loss of a Love by Peter McWilliams, Harold H. Bloomfield, and Melba Colgrove.

[mindflip]

HI Poodle.
Exellent and simple to understand.
cheers

[mindflip]

Hi Terry.
I will research some "old tapes" then "digitally re-master" them this should expose the true reasons I was trianed in such a way.
I feel and imagine you to be a wealth of knowledge so would like to think that I have not challenged you.

[mindflip]

Hello Don.
I can understand your pionts,Although I would never imply that grief is easy to work or live with.
I have very limited experience of working with grief. But do carry the cherrished memories of loved ones. I cant help but feel that i have emotionally relocated them to a special place in my thoughts.
I did imply a year and yes it was a bad chioce of words.
Although i am glad to have opened a can of worms for myself i seem to be learning something. Cheers Don

[mindflip]

Hello Poodle.
I understand that your a time line specialist.
This is a subject that i have a limited knowledge of. Although I probally use more than i realize.
When i think of Time Line i cant help but get images of a tyght rope walker
should i show more imagination?What reading might i search out.




Don if you read this i will seach out a copy of survive the loss of a love.


cheers both .

[skip]

hello again mindflip,

Is mindflip up for a minf f*** today? ;)

The REAL ethical question is, "If grief takes so long, and so many steps, is it ethical to be intervening at all?

And how do you ethically know that IT has taken long enough, and it is TIME to intervene.

Did anyone ever do it a day 'early' and were they ok as a result?

How long does it take to fall in love? Did you personally ever take longer, or short cut that process?

Was your love less genuine as a result?

How long does it take to go from deresssed to frustrated, or excited to dissapointed?

How long should depression last?

How many steps are there to grief resolvment?

Has anyone ever skipped a step?

If you knew how to do all the 'things' internally to complete each step, could you do it in a day? Two?

How about an hour?

See I know what the books say.

I know what conventional wisdom says.

AND I know that I can relieve a life long phobia in approximately 5 min, and it is completely resolved.

I know that I can take someone who is depressed and resolve it in a half an hour or so.

When was the last time you were able to put grief in a bag and carry it out to the dust bin?

Phobias, depression, grief, are are not something in and of themselves, they are something we do.

And we can choose to stop doing that, and do something else, anytime we wish to, if we know how.

A very simple thing to do when presented with grief, or some such, is to honestly ask the person, "If you werent doing x, what would you be doing?"

Then notice carefully THAT trance.

Now how can you help them STAY in that one, as oposed to the other one?

What if everything you were told wasnt so, and you learned you could just make things up, on the spot, and they would work?

How would that change your practice?

skip

[mindflip]

Hello Skip.
I feel as though i should be offended, but strangley im not.

The piont I would of liked to of made and attempted to make although it was a **** up.....IS..

I am a newby..Working..Studying..Spending..Doubble/Tripple checking for mistakes..Enjoying Suervision and still feeling honoured to posses the skills and strategies that i have.

To me a client is a massively important ressource.

I understand Skip that for me it is easier to make mistakes than it is for a more experienced worker...Ethics at this stage for myself is of massive importance...safe than sorry comes to mind.

A time scale for a subject of such importance...Yes i admit a stupid sentence to quote....Also i would not steam in to a human beings uptmost misery all guns blazing...

Skip i am also picking up the advice you offer ,And it is truley mind expanding..To answer your last question ....It has already done so.........

Go pick on the script guy im done now.

Cheers....

[Merlin]

Hi Terry.
Here is an intresting question....
What is the reason that so many schools of thought belive grief to be left alone for a while, my education and also other reasonable and responsible
lecturers teach this out.
I actually can see your piont of view,regarding the request for a script..
I have learned a lot for one day...I must be a very trusting person.I always
compose a script or giude lines for the particular situation and person I would not feel compelled to give those thoughts away cheaply.
I think you do shoot from the hip but it siutes you........Decent shot.

Why did so many schools (for thousands of years, no less) teach the sun moved around the Earth?
Shall we follow the consensus belief or grow?

[Merlin]

Try reading:
Timeline Therapy By Tad James
as a starter.

[Poodle]

It's okay. A lot of us here are NLPers and that is the fastest there is and Skip was not kidding in the least about the amount of time something takes.

Time Line Therapy interests you? Great. Dr. Matt or staff usually head over to your country to teach. Check his schedule to see when they are going to be in your area. As a "technicality" Mr. Matt calls it "Time Line Essence" while his father calls it "Time Line Therapy". From those that have posted from Dr. Matt's classes, there really isn't a hill's worth of beans of difference.

To learn about time line work, you would want Bandler's book "Time For A Change" and read the part about "A Walk Through Time". You just may want to read other parts of the book to gain other skills. You should be able to get both books on-line at sites like Amazon and if they don't have it, try Paul McKenna's bookstore.

Stop thinking like a conventional psychologist. Find out what the mind is really capable of doing and learn how you can also facilitate those changes swiftly. Yeah, I know. Just when you "think" you have one subject somewhat mastered up come people telling you to use other modalities and read a whole bunch more books.

We LOVE our books around here!! LOL.

Stay well,
Pood

[mindflip]

Thanks Poodle,
Im always intrested inspired and like the challengeing style that skip has..
I need to start reading some of Mr. Bandlers books..
Already in my plan.


Cheers Connie

[skip]

"Go pick on the script guy im done now."

Nah, I only pick on those that show me something.

If you are in a reading mood and want something truly exquisite, give "Monsters and Magical Sticks"; 'There is No Such Thing as Hypnosis' by Stephen Heller, a try.

It periodically goes in and out of print and may be difficult to find or it might be impossibly easy. Currently used on Amazon for less than $9.00 US.

cheers,

skip

Refer to Merlin's or my recommended reading lists for more.

[mindflip]

Hello Skip

I have read many articles "There is no such thing as hypnosis" The whole
concept sounds about right.

Heres a secret (I posted on this site that i found it really easy to quit the smoking habit)....SShhh

It may not of been quite as easy as that.

I do not imply to my clients that it is easy.

They make this belief by implying easy to them selves.

The easier they find it the more success we all gain.

Is this to simple to be Hypnosis?




I will defo pick up bits and pieces of peoples reccomended reading.

cheers