B A N D L E R

[Unregistered]

Hi there everyone, I'm fairly new to NLP and have read a few books , but i'm having some serious problems in understanding bandler with his video's which i purchased(£150), in his state of the art stuff, i just dont get it.I spend all the time looking for Language patterns and voice tonality and such, but i just dont get it.I'm beginning to think i'm retarded, watched them all several times and nothing .I can hardly remember what i have just watched after seeing them.
Can anyone please help me with some understanding/advice as to what is going on, it took me ages to save up for the video's and am feeling a little miffed with the set,and dont seem to be learning anything.

with regards and thanks ,..Mark

[Don]

Mark, your question gives me the opportunity to ask a question based on what you've posted.

It seems to me that many people have picked up a book or a couple of videos on NLP and can't understand why they can't effectively use the principles in those books or tapes.

I would contented that learning NLP is a lot like learning massage. At first you need hands-on, in person training. After you have the basics you can add to it by watching videos or reading books.

So I think that with NLP it may be necessary to first take the trainings, perhaps even going through Master Practitioner, before many of the books and tapes can really be useful. Mark's comment above shows that he is understandably upset. He is obviously an intelligent person, but he's not getting what he thinks he should.

I've seen other posts from people who get very upset to hear "take the trainings" instead of simply getting a 25-word explanation that he or she will instantly understand intuitively.

The truth is, it certainly is possible to get and use certain aspects from books and tapes. But to really understand NLP and its variations, and to make use of them, I'm thinking that you simply must go through the trainings.

I imagine that there are some people who may be able to "get it" without going through the trainings, but it might take a very long time to do so.

So I would like to hear from some of the experts here. Do you have to go through the trainings or can you really learn to be effective using NLP from books and/or tapes?

Mark, I feel your pain. My guess is that either you might need to go through the trainings to make use of the tapes, but let's see what others say.

[Charlie]

bandler with his video's which i purchased(£150), in his state of the art stuff...... it took me ages to save up for the video's and am feeling a little miffed with the set

I know your overall question needs a longer answer, but I just felt like answering a part of it, and that is to say that if cash is a bit tight, that the SOA videos you mention usually seem to sell quite quickly on eBay. i.e. you could always re-sell them.

C.

[skip]

I think it would be fair to understand first, that most of what Bandler does bypasses the conscious, in addition, he is an entertaining speaker.

This combination is not just potent, it is very difficult to detect.

I had done some reading, a lot of reading in fact, and practiced what I had learned, before I went to my first training. I had selected Carmine Baffa, who uses unconscious installation extensively.

Well consciously I understood the exercises, but I had no clue about what was happening all the rest of the time. I just went home profoundly changed in a positive way.

It wasnt until a training or two later, that I began to 'catch' Carmine doing 'something', and it was some bit of time before I could anticipate him.

Until I saw someone doing this live, I had no idea how quickly and effectively NLP could be done. It either had to be magic, or hoax; and since peoples lives and behavior patterns were changing, including mine, I had to come down on the side of magic.

I wish I could convey to you, how much you can know from books, and still not have any idea what is possible in the hands of a skilled person.

Dont sell the videos, watch them over and over and over, until you begin to pick out what you KNOW is there, going on, right in front of your eyes.

Did he use a tone, a look, a gesture to set that anchor? What was the anchor he set? How many presuppositions can you tease out from one of his sentences? What series of states has he taken you thru in any given segment. What did he just embed as a command when he followed the sentence up with a "Now?" Why does he delibertely say things like, "From bottom to top, or from your toes to your head.", as opposed to the way most people say those expressions? Can you count how many loops he opens and then later closes?

It is all there, in front of your ears so to speak, you just have to train yourself to notice it.

skip

[Unregistered]

Hi there Don and Skip ,Mark here again, i appreaciate you comments on the subject, I personally find NLP a fantastic subject and have read so much about the positive changes it can bring to peoples lives , which to some is worth their weight in gold,
It would seem that live training is ultimatly THE best way to fully understand NLP.I believe that Bandler and Mckenna do a 7 day master practioner course in the UK which cost around £800, and no better person to learn from then the co-founder himself.
Looks like this is something i'm gonna have to do and then hopefully be able to do my bit to make this world a better place to live for everyone,
Thanks again for the advice Don/Skip was feeling a little lost there for a while.
Good luck and regards,....Mark

[Unregistered]

Hi I too have looked at the Mckenna training and have found out that they have 400 people on each course. I was wondering if anyone who has undertaken some nlp training could comment on the size of the groups that you trained in. Is 400 close to average and is group size relevent to the quality of training recieved.

[Unregistered]

Mark, you've been given some good advice. Of all the State of the art videos the one which has Bandler being slightly more overt in his covertness is Vol 2. Homomorphic metaphor. Here he brings more of what he is doing into conscious awareness. However, you still have to open your eyes and ears.
If you are not familer with language patterns you could begin by noticing how he changes his stories, opening and closing loops.
From memory, there is one part of that tape when he says "....a trance so bad I don't BELIEVE IT..." the believe it was an embedded command and is aimed at some one in the audience.

Another thing you could do, if you are going to learn from these videos, is write out a ten minute section of the tape and make notes on the things that you spot.
Remember, when Bandler is one stage he is not talking about NLP, he is using NLP.

[skip]

I advise going to Bandler, because he is one of the founders, and it is a profound experience.

HOWEVER

Get your initial NLP training somewhere else. You will benifit, from Bandler, more if you already know what you are doing, and 400 class size is far too big, for much personal help, despite the assistants.

Get your training from someone who keeps the class size anywhere from 20-30, too small or too large isnt the best. You need a variety of people to work with but you need to be tracked by the instructor, not a series of assistants, each of which, you might only see once during the training. Even the Bandler experience isnt so great from the nosebleed section.

In addition, if you go to a "Society of NLP" sanctioned training you will be required to sign a contract that will restrict you from using, "NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programing, or any of the 'Society' symbols, unless you are sanctioned by them and continue to be sanctioned by them. This means paying 'dues' and 'continuing education' thru their sanctioned schools.

I dont have a problem with this per se, as the concept can lead to better standards and professionalism. However this practice was only instituted after Bandler lost his lawsuit over the copyright of NLP, and seems to me to be more business protection oriented, than in producing a higher standard of professional.

Their right and priveledge to do, I just dont agree with it, and you should know what you are getting into up front.

skip

[Unregistered]

The license agreement is to restrict people from explicitly teaching NLP for profit, and issuing NLP certs before being qualified to do so.
prac and master prac certs holders are not restricted from using NLP as long as they don't teach it.
I suppose for some that could be a tad difficult.

[skip]

Unregistered,

It isnt a question of difficult, or ease.

It is a point, that once you sign the agreement, you are legally bound by it forever.

Very few people pay any attention to it, until much later, when they might feel restricted by it.

In fact, a lot of people dont see the agreement, until it is presented as they complete registration at the training site. Not many people are willing to just write off air fare, cancellation fees, and lodging dollars, so they sign. An overly coercive situation, at best.

But it is Bandler et al's right, to demand that you sign, or forgo the training.

It has done little IMO, to improve the level of professionalism. The right to teach NLP for profit or otherwise, is already out of the bag, and there are many well qualified trainers who arent bound by the agreement, and they, I assume, will continue to train people.

It is a sound business move though. It keeps anyone who signs, bound to you for anything you consider to be 'continuing education'.

cheers,

skip

[Unregistered]

same unregistered, I have been "bound" by this agreement for several years and it has given me no problems. I have taught certificated courses thru the snlp and delegates course fees include $200 certification which is renewed without problems every two years. This only applies to explicitly teaching NLP
and does not include teaching NLP as part of other courses, as long as the advertising or certificate does not say NLP on it.
The agreement is more to prevent prac and master prac teaching without permission.
The agreement/contract really is not a problem when all is said and done. It had not restricted me in any way shape or form.

Bandler's applying this to DHE and NHR is probably a wise move, as these initials are TM'ed. No doubt someone will take the content and his work and rename it. But as has been mentioned alsewhere on this site, intellectual copyright is a minefireld to try and traverse.

What do you think of the title "Timeline repatterning TM" can you guess what the content will be? I'll just take someone elses work and make it shamelessly mine.

[skip]

Agreed completely, with the possible exception of the interpretation of the purpose of the agreement. :)

I have no problem with an attemp to prevent unqualified people from teaching a skill they cannot use themselves.

Again I am not faulting Bandler et al, I just think people should know in advance what they are getting into.

Caveat Emptor!

skip

[Retrodragon]

hi

i have been on a mckenna training at NLP practioner level. the numbers of people were around the 300 mark from what i remember. iam going to do the Master in april..if you are going to do it, i would do so now as richard bandler recently lost his wife paula and from what i understand is not in the best of health.

Retro

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=skip]

Again I am not faulting Bandler et al, I just think people should know in advance what they are getting into.

Skip, how far in advence, I am already several years on after signing. It has in no way hindered me. But then again, I'm not after ripping the man off.

[Unregistered]

I have been on a Bandler training and also other trainings. The McKenna/Bandler training is good fun, however it is more like an event/gig. As someone else said, if you have done NLP training somewhere else, it is really worth going to see Bandler to pick up his linguistic genius. As a training in itself, I would question as to the level of people at the end of the training. Because of the high number of delegates and low supervision, some of the people on the training who were determined to go out and work as hypnotherapists distinctly lacked skills.
On a Master Prac training (not Bandler) there were 3 people who had done the Bandler Prac training and they really struggled because they hadn't covered things in the depth that other people from other trainings had done.

[Anthony Repton]

I have done several trainings, with different groups. and have hundreds of hours of Bandler on video/DVD. I have been around people who have done the traditional 21 days training and passed the exams but don't have a clue about the attitute of NLP to make it work. I have also seen practitioners from the 7 day programmes who can turn their clients lives around. The thing I know you get from Bandler iis the attitude to make it work, not as a tool of counselling etc, but as the attitude of NLP.
I think the best way to become proficient at nested loops and chaining states is to watch Bandler ( who, without a doubt, is the best on the planet)

[Unregistered]

The Bandler training certainly does install a great attitude for working with clients, as well as installing aversion for other trainings as someone else mentioned. Some people will go on the course and do great things - some people read a book and do great things.
Some people I have seen also come off the course thinking they can work with psychotics and end up in a real mess because they haven't got the experience or whatever else it takes.
Bandler is a genius and his language is second to noone, however now people can attend a 10 day master practitioner training without even having done a practitioner training - this is great if someone has some background experience in NLP, however to the beginner who wants to master the theory and techniques, doing a longer training which is more closely supervised could be a better option to start with and they may get even more out of the Bandler training. Of course, there are a lot of longer courses out there now, so choosing a good one is the challenge.

[Tranceaholic]

I'm not sure if Bandler is the best on the planet as I have'nt personally witnessed everyone on the planet who teaches NLP.

I did my prac, m/prac & trainers with three different training organisations to get as much exposure to different views of NLP. I have since re done m/prac with yet another different organisation, again to gain a different perspective.

Personally I believe it would be difficult to learn the intricacies of NLP in a large group. As it is there's way to much to absorb in a 7, 14 or 21 day course.

IMHO one needs to practice until you get to the level of unconscious competence on the the apects of NLP that you intend to use in your life.

The toolkit that is NLP, TLT & Hypnosis can bring about profound change in a persons life if the trully desire it. They are tools to be shared with all of humanity who choose to make positive change in their lives.

There is nothing wrong with profit & abundance, although I don't belive there is any need for greed & ego in these teachings.

Remember, behaviour is the highest form of communication.

[Unregistered]

I have recently attended the Bandler/Mckenna 7 day prac course. Before that day I was pretty nieve about NLP and what it really was.

I found the course exhilerating and exciting and Bandler had so much presence albeit he was unwell for the first few days.

There were approx 500 people there. I must admit I personally found some of the things we learnt hard to pick up, this was in part due to no prior knowledge of NLP and having never done any trance work in my life before then.

I did have some issues regarding visualisation etc and did try to get some advice from the trainers but due to the large amount of people found it hard to actually resolve the issue, which I still have.

I am now re reading my notes from the course and have purchased several bookes to gain more insight and knowledge.

My main problem now is that I attended the NLP course for my own benefit to improve things in my life. I dont know any NLP'ers in my locality that I can discuss issues with and or practise with.

To summarise I personally would recommend becoming familiar with NLP prior to attending one of these courses to truly obtain the benefits.

If anyone has any advice on teaching / training oneself and indeed practising on other NLP'ers etc then that would be greatly appreciated.