erickson's handshake

[thoughtmaker]

hey there, first post. i really want to learn how to do this induction and i want to know anything i can do to make it work. i know the basic concepts behind the induction, but i could use some clearing up on them. i can hypnotize people fairly quickly, but i've never tried to hypnotize someone without their knowing it. any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Jack]

Hello, and welcome.

What makes you think that any responsible person on here would help you to covertly hypnotise someone? This is an anonymous forum and you could be anybody, and this is not a teaching forum. If you require teaching could I suggest that you go and get some formal training and insurance before you attempt to 'hypnotise someone without their knowing it'.

Jack

[thoughtmaker]

it's not that i want to do anything bad with it. it's just that there is certain advantages to doing it when their not expecting it. for instance, for entertainment, it would be better to do an induction as quickly as possible. also, in a clinical setting, you might have a patient who is having trouble going into a trance. it might be better to go around whatever is stopping them and hypnotize them without them realizing it.

[thoughtmaker]

also, i don't know where to even look for formal training. if you could give me some ways to find it, that'd be great.

[Connie]

also, i don't know where to even look for formal training. if you could give me some ways to find it, that'd be great.

Thoughtmaker, it's not difficult. You have access to the internet. (You're here now.) Go to http://www.google.com and put these words in the search bar: hypnosis training (your city name, or your state name, or any other geographical demarcation you'd like).

[Terry]

Anyone who contacts us for free help is suspect, since this indicates they have insufficient skills or attitude to be safe using any help we offer.As for not knowing where to go for training, wouldn't that be something you should be doing for yourself?
Don't you suppose that any ... person capable of absorbing such training would be capable of finding it without help?
...

[Connie]

Too be blunt.

You might take off that extra "o." You're not being "too" blunt, it's the perfect level of bluntness. I agree with every word.

[Jack]

You see, you reveal quite a lot when you say that you want to 'go around' whatever is stopping someone from entering trance. Your answer to this problem is to try to trick the subconscious into some kind of hypnotic state.

How long do you think this trickery would last? How effective would any work be when done in this state?

Someone else's subconscious is a lot brighter than your conscious attempts at inducing trance and any suggestions made to address the problem would again meet the sort of 'resistance' you are talking about.

Ask yourself why there is an unwillingness to enter trance in the first place rather than attempting to bulldoze your way past or circumvent perfectly ecological subconscious reasons for not entering trance. The client rarely has trouble entering a trance, but the poorly trained or impatient therapist will often have difficulty in inducing one.

You have much to learn and simply learning a technique is a little like following the instructions on how to paint your front door in a nice gloss, before having a go at the Sistine Chapel.

As for instant induction for entertainment, my views on the use of hypnosis for entertainment are well known so I won't repeat them again.

Go and spend a few years learning about people, rapport and yourself and you will be surprised how easily and quickly most people will enter an altered state without any attempt on your part of a formal induction, handshake or otherwise.

Jack

[Don]

Hi, Thoughtmaker.

Welcome to our forums. I regret that you've received a rather "blunt" reception. I respectfully suggest that you, or any new poster, go through previous posts before making a first post. I think you might have learned a great deal and seen how to avoid the bluntness.

Let me be a little less blunt, if I may, and try to point out where the problem originated.

Many of the professionals here have spent years in study and practice, as well as many thousands in money to learn hypnosis and hypnotherapy. We love helping others! And more importantly, as a results of all this training and study, we understand just how powerful the mind can be.

Now, because this was your first post, we don't know who you are, your level of training, expertise, or ethics. You said you wouldn't "do anything bad," and I'm sure you mean it. But unfortunately, we don't know it. The longer you stay here and post here the more we'll know you and the better we can answer your questions. Nobody here wants to train an unknown in such a powerful skill without knowing how it will be used.

But more importantly, hypnosis is a skill. Skills must be practiced. Some parts of your post indicate that you have not really developed that skill. That means, even if someone clearly described the technique (and if you really wanted to learn just the technique, a quick web search would reveal it).

Imagine, for a moment, you came here saying, "Hey! I know how to use this power saw. How can I make a smooth "S" curve in this hardwood?" Just because someone replied, "Use a pencil to draw an "S" on wood and cut through the line" doesn't mean you'd be able to do it.

During an in-person training, a teacher can watch what you're doing and make sure it is being done properly. Other students can give you feedback. You can really learn it. Even if you read about the technique or saw a YouTube video, with what appears to be your lack of training and experience, it's highly likely that you wouldn't succeed. Many of us are teachers, here, and it would be unethical to give you the impression you had learned something when you had not. And if you give a power saw to someone who cannot use it and then have them turn it on with no supervision, the results could be...uh...problematic.

That's why we can't do training here. It's impractical, ineffective, and unethical. Nor can we do therapy here. Beside being impractical, ineffective, and unethical, it might also be illegal.

We can and do answer questions about hypnosis and hypnotherapy. We can and do give tips about practice to professionals. If other sites describe certain hypnotic techniques, more power to them! The fact that we are more interested in knowing that people learn how to use the techniques, rather than simply learn about them, IMO, gives us a realistic and ethical high ground.

Sometime we get people saying that they can't find trainers in their area or they can't afford it. Our responses have been that if you really want to learn something, you give up other things (such as going to movies, buying CDs or DVDs or games) or even get a second job to earn and save up the funds, and then go to a training. It may require traveling to another city or town. Again, it just depends upon how much a person really wants to learn.

[Merlin]

Your comments here demonstrate how little you know about hypnosis.

[Poodle]

to look for formal training. Interesting. Did you look at the very top of this Forum? Guess what the people that own this little ole Forum do? You got it! It even was written on the link you clicked on to get here - AmPacUniversity = American Pacific University.

Secondly, one does not induce trance without permission. This is something you will learn in training.

I'm wondering if you found the "true" Erickson handshake induction or the simple ones. The original is very complex.

Save your money and your dreams will come true. In the meantime, please read posts here. There is a lot of information if one is able to understand it.

Pood :)

[Snoopy]

What scares me is the point that you firstly told us "i can hypnotize people fairly quickly" then, a few posts later, told us "i don't know where to even look for formal training"

I'm only reasonably new to the whole Hypnosis Field & have been certified for under 12 months. However, I'm under the understanding that the client/subject actually hypnotizes themself & the hypnotherapist/hypnotist is a 'guide' to get the client into the level of hypnosis that is required for the therapy.

If you are being truthful, and you can indeed induce the hypnotic state "fairly quickly" wouldn't it be a better idea to work on your own methods to make them faster?

Hypnosis requires one main thing to work, That one thing is CONSENT (Permission) without the consent of your client, the hypnotic induction will not only be next to impossible, but it's also a breach of almost every ethic code I was taught

[thoughtmaker]

by formal training i mean a class taught by a real hypnotist. all that i have learnt is though the internet and through books on the subject.

also, i was under the impression that these instant inductions only work when the subject is unaware that it's going to happen. i suppose you could ask a month in advance if you can hypnotize them later at a random time, but it kind of defeats the purpose of the 'instant' induction.

[Don]

Thoughtmaker, your post shows exactly why you need to get some training!

You're obviously fascinated with hypnosis--learn it properly! You can't learn massage, carpentry, or dentistry "through the internet and through books on the subject" alone. The same is true of hypnosis.

I hope you'll become a fine hypnotist and can bring happiness and joy to many people. Begin by taking a real, in-person course.

[Snoopy]

by formal training i mean a class taught by a real hypnotist. all that i have learnt is though the internet and through books

Thats my point, What you could possibly learn online & books is only the tip of the iceburg.

In your above quote, You've said more than you realize. "by a real hypnotist"

That is the point I'm trying to prove here.. The authors of those books may or may not be "real hypnotists" yet you trust thier content enough to practice what they say.

Do the books mention what to do when someone refuses to wake up? what to do when you awaken a multiple personality? No, I bet it doesn't, The truth can scare a lot of people off, and those people wouldn't by the AUTHORS books.

My question to you is this thoughtmaker, If you have never recieved professional training, How can you be sure you have your client/subject in the hypnotic state? How do you know how it feels, and what the signs of hypnosis are?

I'm not having a go at you mate. I'm just trying to open your eyes as to how little you actually know. I think it's great you have an interest in Hypnosis, It is a facinating subject to many people, Even after earning my certification with professional training I still find it more and more facinating every day. I still bring in clients that are new to me, Clients that make me think on my feet of exactly how I am going to handle it. This is where the pre-hypnotic talk comes in, You need to ask the right questions to get the right answers, otherwise you'll meet a little demon known as Abreactions, and they are nasty little beggers!

My advice to you is, Stop hypnotizing your mates, Put down those books, close those webpages. Seek professional training asap, learn how to do it properly, then go back to your books/webpages and hypnotizing your mates with a toolbag full of new skills.

Snoopy

[thoughtmaker]

i've actually learnt how to do many things without a class on the subject, but i can see what you're saying. i trust the books about as much as someone giving a class (that i could attend) on hypnosis. what's to stop someone from picking up a few techniques and then showing them off like a professional. about as much as there is stopping someone from doing the same as in a book.

the only classes that i could trust that i'd learn someone, is a course at a school, which i don't have the money for.

i think, for now, i'm fine learning what i can by myself. i've always leaned more towards self-teaching anyways. if i come across someone to teach me, for free, then i'd take it of course, but for the same information i can get for a fraction of the cost, i think i'll stick to books.

[Jack]

what's to stop someone from picking up a few techniques and then showing them off like a professional. about as much as there is stopping someone from doing the same as in a book.


Nothing except common sense, if you have any. I have a copy of Grays Anatomy but I wouldn't anaesthetise anyone or remove their gallbladder simply because I knew where it was from a diagram.

If you really wanted to learn about hypnosis you would find the money.

And I can hear you saying 'from where'?

I have no idea.

What I can tell you is that throughout the world there are hundreds of thousands of people who find the money to do the thing that they need to do, and I'm willing to bet that at least half of them are poorer than you. No money does not equal no determination.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and that is what you are looking for; you have had a free cup of coffee from the professionals on here, but let it go cold. Using the methods you propose you will learn just enough to be yet another inept and potentially harmful hypnotist, The world awaits you with a groan.

Jack

[Connie]

Thoughtmaker, I'll share a couple of the thoughts you make in me:

"...what's to stop someone from picking up a few techniques and then showing them off like a professional?"

The professionals I know are not in the business to "show off" or in the habit of showing off. Not even the entertainment-oriented professionals.

"...if i come across someone to teach me, for free, then i'd take it..."

Good luck on that one! Have you ever heard the expression, you get what you pay for?

Books are wonderful. Keep reading. But don't fancy yourself in a position to do.

[skip]

Thoughtmaker,

A thought or two for you:

I have no problem with you 'getting it' any way you can. You have an interest, and I would suggest you pursue it.

In pursuing it; understand the pros and cons.

A book simply cannot be there to help you with the unexpected. It doesnt matter who wrote it, and there are some really ****ty books out there.

Neither can a book show you how truly elegant and wonderful the trance experience from both sides can be. I doubt that anyone can ever be as 'magically effective' if they have only ever studied from a book. That isnt because they are deficent, it is because of the limitations of even the best book.

Practicing with someone who doesnt know what they are doing either, leads to poor habits, that must later be unlearned. This means that early on, when you might be easily discouraged, you wont be as effective as you could be, simply because you cant know better.

But I wont argue with you, live training does SEEM expensive. That is if you place no value on your time or the additional expense of learning incorectly and then having to unlearn and relearn.

I have no problem with you reading, and consuming as much as possible. I know you will try it out. How could you not? The smart people will get to a training, a good one, one they have researched, asap.

The rest?

Well they will struggle, as long as their interest holds.

cheers,

skip

[Poodle]

Classes on hypnosis from a CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR are NOT EXPENSIVE. When one adds in NLP Practitioner, NLP Master Practitioner and/or Reiki, then yes, the costs go waaaay up. The expense starts to add up when you want more and more and more and more so you buy every good book possible on the subject, DVD's and everything else. There is always something more to learn and you can learn more and different things studying with different people.

Could you possibly ride a bike, brown bag your lunch, do extra work in evenings and weekends. WOW! You would have the money to do it right in no time.

Who knows. You may even catch Merlin when she is teaching. Now, even as advanced as I am, I know I would still like to study with certain people.

[Snoopy]

what's to stop someone from picking up a few techniques and then showing them off like a professional.

You are absolutly right, There's nothing stopping someone from reading a few misguided words on a page, Then putting that information into practice.

But let me ask you this..

How can you know what you are doing is indeed inducing the hypnotic state, If you have never been hypnotized before and told "This is what it feels like"?

When I did my training in hypnotherapy, the teacher would ask questions, I would say what I believed to be the correct answer.. My teacher soon learnt that I had read too many books, and taught myself too much false information.

In short, What I am saying here is - Read your books all you like, Search the net, learn as much as you can, But don't take it in too deep, Because when or if the time comes that you do follow through with your interest and get real training, What you are reading in those books will get in the way.

Best of luck.

Snoopy

[thoughtmaker]

i'm pretty sure i know what it's like. i've asked the people who i've put into fairly deep trances what it feels like and i also practice self-hypnosis. i myself have never been hypnotized by another person however so i cannot tell how much it differs. my question is though, how did the the people who first started doing hypnosis know what it felt like? they probably only knew of it through the ways i do. the only way that they got better was through practice and experimenting.

with knowledge i have know, i realize that regressing people back to traumatic memories is not a good idea. through baby steps though i think it wouldn't be unsafe to work my way to things of that nature. i'm still unexperienced and wouldn't want to put anyone in danger by doing anything like that now, but maybe with more practice i will be able to feel confident in doing something like that.

for now though, i'm content with simply put people under and then bringing them back up and perhaps give them a suggestion to improve their life.

[Don]

Hi, thoughtmaker.

Your post is very problematic.

You say, "i'm pretty sure i know what it's like." To me that means you're not sure at all as the modifier in this phrase is usually used to imply a lack of surety.

You write, "i've asked the people who i've put into fairly deep trances what it feels like." How do you know they were in "fairly deep" trance?

You write that you practice self-hypnosis but you've never been hypnotized by another so you don't know how much it differs. How do you know you were in an actual self-hypnotic state?

You ask, "how did the the people who first started doing hypnosis know what it felt like? they probably only knew of it through the ways i do." Well, I don't know how the Wright Bros. plane worked, but I take jet aircraft several times every year. Hypnosis has been around for thousands of years. As a result of this long experience with hypnosis, we know what hypnosis is like. There's no need to reinvent the wheel.

I would respectfully suggest that you continue your studies and learn even more about hypnosis. At the same time, save your money until you can take some in-person courses so you can effectively and safely do hypnosis.

[Poodle]

Another big mistake in your post: "putting people UNDER". That would imply that YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER THOSE PEOPLE. In all actuality, you have zero, zip, nada. The client/subject has all the control. Just exactly how are you going to put these people "under"? Under the couch, under the table, under a chair, under WHAT????

If you think I'm yelling at you, you are very correct. Language is our tool. We need to use it correctly in this business even more so than in others.

This is another example of something you are going to have to unlearn so you can learn appropriately. :)

[geoph_swiss]

It is amazing how much my perception has changed just by touching the surface.
I have found the most amazing part of understanding is that usaully everybody understands, they just haven't looked at their "strategies" critically.
I have joined this forum to first find direction.

My Background:
I am 25year old Male.
I was first indruced to NLP from Neil Strauss's "The Game"
(If you don't know what it is, you should he referances NLP alot)
I want to know alot more about NLP and the whole community to be a positive impact on the world.
I have Just Finished "Neuro-Linguistic Programming Volume I The Study of the Structure of Subjective Experience" By: Robert Dilts, John Grinder, Richard Bandler, and Judith Delozier.

I have looked into the Classes in Seattle, but not sure if it is the correct step at this moment.
I feel that I should really read the rest of the Volumes in the series. But as I read this one I really felt a disconect that I can't understand all aspects without experienceing live situations.
On the otherhand I don't want to Invest time and money(niether of which I am lacking) and be the big dumby of the group.

What kind of background knowledge do I need to have, to gain everything I can from a class?

[Connie]

Geoph, if you're serious about wanting training in Seattle, I know the BEST NLP trainer. Two of them, in fact. PM me if you're interested in names/info.

[Poodle]

Read Frogs Into Princes. You have already read the difficult books. NLP was never meant to be hard or difficult to learn. There are many great NLP Trainers. Look around. If you live by Seattle, PM Connie.

[Don]

What kind of background knowledge do I need to have, to gain everything I can from a class?

You already have everything you need to get the most from a training: a sincere desire to learn! :)

[geoph_swiss]

I don't live close to Seattle, but now-a-days everything is close.
I am very sorry to admit, but I don't know what is PM
I have made it availible to e-mail me, or if this PM thing is obviously
something I need to know.
Can I get a quick tutorial.
Is is
Psychic Messaging

HA HA

[pmdigi]

PM = Personal Message; just look up the person's profile and you will see a place for personal messaging.

[Connie]

Geoph, I got your psychic message! :) So, I sent you a private message containing the web address of the school/trainers I have in mind for you. They are TERRIFIC.

[Merlin]

I have joined this forum to first find direction.


What kind of background knowledge do I need to have, to gain everything I can from a class?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/Other/welcome.gif http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/Other/welcome.gif http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/Other/welcome.gif

Now,
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/Other/post.gif

So glad to have you join us.
Actually, you don't need anything first, before classes.
Everything is covered in a basic class.
The more you learn first, the more you risk needing to unlearn in class.

Actually, I know 4 people who have had Bennett's training in Seattle.
So, I recommend him.