Bizarre? The instant self-induced trance (with objective)

[pretzelz]

Hi all,

I'm interested in your views as to how efficiently this possibly "far out" hypnotic experiment might work.

A subject is hypnotised and given the suggestion that: whenever they place their hand on their own shoulder and say "trance now", they will instantly go into a deep hypnotic trance - and carry out the objective which they had beforehand written themself on paper. (so their trance session would be unguided, except for their own instruction.)

The objective itself, will be clearly framed on the paper, in the manner of:

*length of time to carry out objective
*what the objective is.

The subject will be instructed to return fully out of trance at the end of the desired time, regardless of the progress made with the objective. (ie, if it's unfinished)

So, hypothetically let's say... my friend is hypnotised with all the above.

She decides one evening that she's gonna have to tidy the kitchen, it's a mess. (So already, there is some natural desire to do the task, even if it's mundane and boring)

She grabs a bit of paper and writes down:

20 minutes - tidy kitchen (leaving the paper on her lap)

She then touches her shoulder and says the magic words "trance now", fully expecting to go into trance.

Upon entering the trance state, she automatically looks down at the paper in her lap (as she has been instructed to do), processes the time length and nature of the objective, and sets about doing it (with focused determination and enthusiasm) until the time length is up.

After 20 minutes she returns to normal waking conciousness and can evaluate her efforts.

--So that's the basic idea. Rather like being your own personal slave. And if it does work, it could have some really great potential for getting mundane things done efficiently and dedicated. Such as cleaning, cooking, attending lectures, taking exercise, working on essays.


So my extended thoughts are, if this does have potential to work:

* increasing the description of the task, on the paper, may aid how well the subject performs it. eg, "tidy kitchen so it looks spotless, fit for royality" (although it should have been suggested that, whilst carrying out any objective, the subject will be highly motivated to do the best job they can at it and work as efficiently as possible.)

* they are instructed so that when carrying out their objective during their trance, their focus on the task will keep them in a steady trance, and any minor distractions around them will simply reinforce the trance.

*They will be distracted out of trance by something critical happening, like a fire or having an accident during completing the objective. (for safety, although the subconcious should take care of this matter itself)

*Ticking a box on their paper which says "Forget what happened during trance?" could be set to ensure they do just that. Which might make, for example, tidying the kitchen, seem like it was done as if by magic. (Because imagine, you go into trance, tidy up a messy kitchen, forget you've done it, then return to reality to find it's now tidy! How cool would that be?)

*If the whole test worked well the first time, and each subsequent time, it might encourage expectancy for it to work well each time. And thus the whole suggested-concept would retain or increase it's power to work.

*How long could a trance state like this last, without being guided? Given that you had instructed for the trance state to remain steady etc.

*If someone came up and talked to you while you were carrying out your objective, would you answer as normal, then return to your objective? -I suppose you could instruct the subject to ignore any personal intervention like this, or to politely send the person away quickly. (Or maybe to say "Ssh! I'm doing trance work."

If I was hypnotised with the ability to do the above, my favourite objectives would be:

3 minutes : do push ups

or

30 minutes : work on (such and such) essay

or

60 minutes : listen and retain what the lecturer says.


So, your thoughts please? Many thanks.

[Don]

Science does not advance through one scientist asking others if something will work.

Rather, it advances through The Scientific Method. Part of this method involves the advancement of a theory followed by testing to see a) if the theory can be proven and b) if it is possible to "break" the theory by showing that it doesn't explain all of the collected data or that alternative theories will be better in explaining the data.

So my thought, pretzelz, is to stop looking for approval. Rather, you should test out your theory and see if it works. Come up with testing methodologies that can disprove the theory, too.

Once you have finished your testing and are sure that your theory and methodology works, come back to a site such as ours, present your findings, and ask for independent testing to see if your results can be replicated.

Pretzelz, there is no room for authority in hypnosis. Just because someone wrote something 50 years ago or 100 years ago does not make it an undeniable law. People thought hypnosis could only be done one way and then Erickson came around and demolished that belief. Some day, someone may smash Erickson's techniques. But that won't be achieved by asking for permission.

Be bold! Try it out. Experiment. Then let us know what happens.

[pretzelz]

Thanks Don, I certainly will experiment with this. I guess I was just interested in any speculations about the concept people might have. Perhaps any obvious pitfalls that might be pointed out beforehand so I can head in the right direction when I come to try it.

[Don]

Different people will have different opinions. But as one mystic wrote: "Let success be your proof."

Too often, people look to the authority of others for advice. When asking several people they may get differing, even opposing advice. As a result, rather than acting and discovering something new, they are confused and do nothing.

[Terry]

Thanks Don, I certainly will experiment with this. I guess I was just interested in any speculations about the concept people might have. Perhaps any obvious pitfalls that might be pointed out beforehand so I can head in the right direction when I come to try it.
I never speculate, I read, digest, and come to a conclusion. Certainly that conclusion can be wrong at times, but based on your post, I not only concur with Don, but would add something based on my own experience.
In my opinion, you lack the knowledge, the experience, and the skills to experiment, something only the very best should attempt. The fact that you needed to ask first for our opinion, and then for further direction demonstrates this.
I have spent five years developing one project, and I have been in the business for forty years. That five years was before I used it even once, and then first only on myself before offering it to others. How much time have you expended on developing this project before coming here with your questions? On what do you base your belief that it is possible? What basic training, followed by what experience do you have that would contribute to your ability as an experimenter?
All of these are important if you don't want to be compared to the person who reads a book about surgery, and decides that that is sufficient to perform brain surgery on a friend. Is that the comparison you wish us to draw?

[pretzelz]

Is that the comparison you wish us to draw?

You might as well.

I'm probably reasonably well read for a beginning novice hypnotist. But I certainly will still explore. And more so in a months time after I've had some hands on stage hypnosis seminars in London. For that reason, I won't be trying to touch any therapy sides to hypnosis, which you'll be happy about, so no need for the lecture there. My current experiments will be limited just to my friends and family who are already keen to assist, and will explore only what we percieve as some of the more entertaining possibilities.

I hope to be able to come back to this site for feedback on my various endeavours in the future. They'll probably all be a little "off the wall".

BTW, even if it's not up for discussion, one problem I thought of with my concept in this post, is that because the self-initiated trance will be unguided, nobody will be around to do any deepeners for the subject. Well. Without your input, sure, I'll just be left to see if that's an obstacle which can be overcome.

[Don]

Put deepeners on a recording (tape, CD, computer, etc.) and play them back.

[pretzelz]

Put deepeners on a recording (tape, CD, computer, etc.) and play them back.

Would on the same bit of paper work? Just to make the whole concept simple and self-contained. (you might not have a playback device to hand)

I suppose you could be instructed to read your own generic deepeners and act upon them. Then to get on with the objective for the stated time. Or maybe you could be instructed to go into trance, recall and act upon some specific deepeners, then carry out the objective.

-I hope to be testing this next week somepoint if my schedule lets up.

[Don]

Try it and see.

[Poodle]

The deepeners come from the "hypnotist". Usually even stage hypnotists have at least 100 hours of in-person training and some of them have Doctorates in hypnosis. The ones on this Forum also use hypnosis for clinical issues. I don't care if you have read 1,000 books on hypnosis, you are still lacking in basic skills. I must agree with Terry. I sure would not want you near my mind until you are properly trained. What about the induction? - One size fits all? Lord love a duck!

[pretzelz]

What about the induction? - One size fits all? !

If you like.

[tomlondonuk]

the technique that you are descibing is similar to the technique gerald kein teachs on his advanced self hypnosis video.

the suggestions are written on a peace of paper and the hypnotee holds in front of face then dropsin to hypnosis for a specific amount of time ti let the suggestions take effect.

im not shure if you could use it as a waking hypnosis technique but you are propable better off using self hipnosis to create motivation for the things you whant.

[Poodle]

Why not give the suggestion of time distortion so the desired task will seem as if it only took seconds, or maybe you could start out smaller and "end procrastination" by doing large tasks in small chunks. :) Pood

[pretzelz]

Yes, I like the time distortion idea.

I think, certainly with myself, if it was possible - I would like to create a virtual slave, in so far as, I carry out some productive yet mundane task, (really efficiently) then forget the experience after completion, or as you suggested, associate a very short time passing with it. Purely experimental.

I was given the idea by what I read in McGills encyclopedia. It was in his section about marketing. He wrote that he once went in to see a newspaper journalist about having a promotional article written on hypnosis. He hypnotised the journalist, and in trance, the journalist wrote the article. After being woken up, he was able to conclude the article with a final paragraph: "ps. I've just woken up and have no memory of writing any of the above."

So that's what gave me the idea about the ability to be productive whilst in a trance, and secretly have yourself doing the "work" for you. I'm not sure if there's anything serious to gain from it, but it's a quirky idea.

Perhaps if you made yourself dinner whilst in a trance, then came out of it, you'd have dinner all ready and prepared waiting for you. Now wouldn't that be nice? You could thank yourself by making your unconcious some desert.

[pretzelz]

*subconcious (it's late! And where's the edit button?!)

[pretzelz]

Hi everyone,

I'm back - and with a new angle on my question.

Do you think it's possible I could pay a local hypnotherapist for one experimental session with him. The sole objective being, to give me a powerful post-hypnotic suggestion, that when I put (for example) my hand on my left shoulder and say "trance now" I go into a deep state of hypnosis, no matter where I am. And that I'll be highly receptive of any suggestions I voice to myself, (as the hypnotist) over headphones from a pre-written and recorded script.

Would they laugh me off? Or might I find one willing to take such a session objective seriously?

...and, it's vital that the post-hypnotic suggestion takes me right down into a deep state of hypnosis. Not just a light self-hypnosis where I have to simultaneously think about what I want to achieve as I talk it over to myself. So perhaps he/she can fractionate me in the session, to get my mind used to going deeper, easier, faster each time.

This way, I can carry out a lot of experimental hypnosis on myself... including the idea about carrying out some task whilst in a trance, then coming out of it to find I've done it. (yes, surreal I know. I'm motivated enough already by my projects, but there's still something to this that fascinates me, as an experiment)

Now providing I am capable of achieving a deep level of hypnosis... how long could I maintain my own trance for? (Minutes? Hours? If you're bypassing the "critical factor" you can't get bored, surely?) I mean, if I had headphones on, and I heard myself give intermittent deepeners, and suggestions to keep me focused on task... do you think I could carry out that task quite efficiently?

And if at the end of my trance session, when my voice asked me to forget everything that had happened in the session (for amnesia) and return to normal waking consciousness, do you think I'd accept the suggestion? (I would assume that; since I had specifically written it for myself anyway, that I'd 110% accept it. And anything else I'd given myself too.)

I guess if all this could be achieved, then I'd pre-write and record a number of scripts for myself. Each one opening with a deepener, so that when I "activated" the trance on myself, I'd set the audio playing beforehand, and the deepener would be timed to come in just after I'd gone "down".

---And as an interesting side note: My x-girlfriend from America used to have this interesting ability to put herself into a *deep* trance in about 15 seconds. We didn't try too much with it back then, but what would happen, is we'd sit down to do a hypnotic session, she'd close her eyes for about 15 seconds. And when her eyes popped open again there would be this totally blank stare. At that point in time, I didn't know anything about deepeners or depth etc. But she was pretty far gone. In one session I talked to her for 25 minutes like this. It was hard to get a response out of her but I won't go into details of what she'd asked me to say. Anyway, when the session was to come to an end, I had been told just to close her eyes and keep silent. She would then come back to normal consciousness on her own in about 45 seconds. And when she did, she had no recollection of what had happened at all. ---So I'd love some light to be shed on that, whatever it was! The only explanation she gave me, was that since she was young, she found she could focus on a part of her brain and switch it off. (She certainly wasn't acting. It was an eerie experience!)

Ok, so if any of you have time, there's a bunch of things I'd really appreciate your views on.

(Please, no warnings of: Don't try it! Don't try it! If the concept is possible, I will try it. But I will use common sense also. And won't be trying to do any therapy on myself either.)

ps. If the session was a success and I was then able to go into trance via PHS, if I did this several times a day (hopefully reinforcing the use of the PHS) is there any chance the PHS could wear off? I would assume it would simply become more effective with use, at getting me into the desired state. I'd have chosen to put myself into it in the first place, so there would be full on expectation of the outcome.

Ok, thanks.

[pmdigi]

as you might think at least it seems to me - my hypnotherapist put me in a deep trance and then gave me an anchor to go back into it. It still works, and that was over two years ago. Your personal experiments are of course your own. I can't really say - who really knows what's possible?:cool:

[Poodle]

No lectures. To learn self-hypnosis from a professional is only one session. I have no idea of what you mean by "deep" as "deep" means many different things to many different instructors. Just because you got it from a pro does not in the least mean you will be able to do it with others.

tomlondonuk "tried" to give you an idea but you blew him off. This same instructor has said that hypnosis in the hands of professionals is not dangerous enough but in the hands of the unskilled it is a real danger.

Are you actually seeking mind control? Being in a deep state of trance does NOT necessarily produce amnesia for anything. oops - stumbling block - back to the pro again, huh? The "client" always has the option to not go into trance and to not accept suggestions. Even during surgery with the conscious mind G O N E, the subconscious mind is awake and hearing everything.

I personally love my trance states and I refuse to move in them except deep in my mind. Maybe you should learn NLP so you can find out about Motivation Strategies, huh?

PS - You do not have an edit button. Pood :rolleyes:

[pretzelz]

I look forward to understanding more about the difference between self-hypnosis and guided hypnosis by a professional.

The way I see it currently, however, is that if you are doing self-hypnosis and you're giving yourself affirmations, surely you're thinking alot with your conciousness, focusing on giving yourself the affirmations, rather than having your concious mind take a break, while your subconcious focuses on the suggestions and trying to make use of them. And so with that in mind, surely a self-hypnosis session is much less effective than one guided by a professional, because you're not taken down to such a deep level of trance, that your concious mind is set aside. I would have thought it'd be at least 50% as effective, because you're both focusing on presenting suggestions to yourself, as well as absorbing them.

I'm sure I read somewhere, that self hypnosis can move a mole hill, whilst guided hypnosis can move a mountain. That the degree of effectiveness is not the same, but can serve to help reinforce a suggestion given initially by the hypnotist.

And with regards to obtaining amnesia, Orman McGill wrote, in the book I'm reading, "if you want amnesia, make sure to demand it." (even if the subject doesn't accept)

[Poodle]

therein lies the problem. Just how does one demand from the mighty and powerful inner mind? Are you going to threaten it? Won't work. "I demand you do this now!" Won't work.

Lesson 1: There are exactly two levels of hypnosis: 1. hypnotized, 2. unhypnotized.

Suggestion: After you receive your self-hypnosis, please read the books Training Trances by Julie Silverthorn et vir and Trance-formation by B&G. While you are at it, read all the books on Merlin's book list. After reading everything, come back and tell us how you will "demand". Deal? :rolleyes:

[pretzelz]

I will read up the topic, yes.

I won't be doing any demanding though. The subject will accept what he/she wants to accept. I think Ormand was just stating that if you want amnesia you really have to ask for it. Give the subject some reason to accept the amnesia, some motivation.

Let's talk about stage hypnosis for a moment. Where the participants are often involved in some physically active role play. If you were with a fun and willing subject and he was doing self-hypnosis, could he achieve a similar trance state in which, (if given suggestions by an accepted guide) he could find himself involved in such agreeable physical activity? (I'm impatient to attend my stage hypnosis course which is still five weeks away apparently. I'm sure that will answer all these questions, including the others I have.)

---And I noticed nobody commented on my x-girlfriends ability to achieve some kind of trance. I was wondering if this was anything out of the norm.

[skip]

Ormand is incorrect, unless you would call any producing or effecting amnesia 'asking for it'.

There are hundreds of ways to produce amnesia.

Not to mention spontaneoulsy produced amnesia.

My experience would indicate that most trance experiences do produce amnesia spontaneously, unless you specifically ask for a different result.

If I say, "It is OK to remember to forget to remember ..."; is that asking for amnesia?

Is putting something in the middle of nested loops, asking?

Is redirecting attention, just as a subject is reorienting, 'asking'?

I understand your enthuiasm, but you are making conclusions and forming questions from them, based on too narrow a knowelege base.

Ormand might have written the Bible on stage hypnotism, but he isnt God. ;)

skip

[pretzelz]

Thanks for your insight skip. Yes I do appreciate, on my limited knowledge, I am getting far too ahead of myself. Just over eager I guess. With time I'll know the answers.

[Poodle]

As far as your girlfriend, I have seen Tad James' wife do the exact same thing. She has her mind so trained to go into trance in a nanosecond and while she is there she does things. A very interesting lady IMO. Pood

[Jack]

---And as an interesting side note: My x-girlfriend from America used to have this interesting ability to put herself into a *deep* trance in about 15 seconds. We didn't try too much with it back then, but what would happen, is we'd sit down to do a hypnotic session, she'd close her eyes for about 15 seconds. And when her eyes popped open again there would be this totally blank stare. At that point in time, I didn't know anything about deepeners or depth etc. But she was pretty far gone. In one session I talked to her for 25 minutes like this. It was hard to get a response out of her but I won't go into details of what she'd asked me to say. Anyway, when the session was to come to an end, I had been told just to close her eyes and keep silent. She would then come back to normal consciousness on her own in about 45 seconds. And when she did, she had no recollection of what had happened at all. ---So I'd love some light to be shed on that, whatever it was! The only explanation she gave me, was that since she was young, she found she could focus on a part of her brain and switch it off. (She certainly wasn't acting. It was an eerie experience!)


A client of mine could do this. She required no help from me to contact her own subconscious and immerse herself in an altered state. She had had no formal training in hypnosis and simply regarded this ability as natural to her, which it was not, being learned behaviour to cope with particular historical events in her life. After a few sessions she lost this ability since the behaviour was no longer necessary, but we replaced it from choice rather than necessity since she rather missed it.

We are all in trance, most of the time. On some level we choose our trance to suit our objectives. When the objectives change, so does the state. The trance you are now in is one you have constructed to suit your objectives, whatever they might be. As long as you understand that it is a trance then you can also understand that the way to achieve your objectives might be to hitch a ride on the next trance, if this one isn't working.

Jack