Ideomter Questioning

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Guys, I have probably spent about 4 or 5 total hours, maybe more, pracicing ideometer questioning, and each time I try, I am leading no where. I am trying to figure out the sources of some of my dysfunctions, but I am often getting answers that are conflicting, and vary from session to session. Do you guys have any advice?

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Sorry about my spelling, it is ideomotor.

[Merlin]

You might start by giving us more information.
Are you doing the ideomotor on self or others?
What ideomotor method?
what 'level' of trance?

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Merlin, I am sorry to be so vague. I am always doing self hypnosis and ideomotor questioning on myself. I am trying to improve myself in a couple of areas. I was not aware that you had to be in any sort of trance to do ideomotor questioning, I have always just practiced normally. As to the method I use, I use the chevruel pendulum method. I am sure you are familiar with that, but in case your not, what it entails is holding a piece of string with a bob tied to the end, and the movement goes to each of 6 or so directions indicating answers. Merlin, or anyone, I would appreciate help so much, I am frustrated after all of this practice with poor results.

[EC]

Hi Youaregettingsleepy

Hate to be discouraging, however, the truth is that while playing with the pendulum is quite entertaining, it rarely works for effective self-analysis and self-help.

A visit to a trained therapist and having him/her teach you the proper self help technique can be efective for many minor issues.

EC

[Jack]

Hello EC,

Agree with you about going to a trained professional, but disagree mildly about Chevreul's.

The pendulum is quite a good way to access the subconscious but the user needs to be aware that it can be fraught with conscious interference and subconscious wish fulfillment. For instance if you ask the(almost pointless) question "Am I going to be rich?", three things may happen. Firstly, the subconscious may be quite enthusiastic about the idea - without any basis for enthusiasm- and swing to 'yes' without conscious volition. Or the pendulum may swing to 'yes' as the result of self-delusion and conscious interference on the part of the user. It could also remain static which would be the honest response to such an inappropriate question. For a low self esteem person, 'no' might be appropriate.

The pendulum is useful if the questions can be framed in the right way. So "Could I be rich?" although similar can lead on to questions such as "Is my career the right one for me?" which is more likely to initiate an honest subconscious response and subsequent conscious learning.

I teach some of my clients how to use Chevreul's because they can revisit me with the results and we can examine how they framed the questions and what responses they managed. It tells me a great deal about my client and how they perceive the world and their own place in it.

Jack

[skip]

Ive not had much success with the pendulum.

Generally my head is shaking yes or no too much for me to detect the subtle movements of the artifact.

:)

skip

[EC]

Hi Jack,

I don't disagree that the pendulum can be quite entertaining, in fact there was a time I gave one to every client to amaze themselves with. But the truth is, from the therapist standpoint, there are much faster and more accurate means to the same end. From a self-help standpoint, while direct self-suggestion works ok for some things if done properly, I think you will agree that self diagnosis is entirely another matter. *self-delusion and conscious interference on the part of the user *.

So, a neophyte playing with a pendulum will likely only result in one becoming cross-eyed :)

EC

[Terry (existing)]

EC re that last paragraph, which one becomes cross eyed, the neophyte who is doing it, or the person watching? (EG)
The pendulum is for fun of course, but I have used it for research in order to find out if I could contact a client's subconcious mind without hypnosis, asking while they held the pendulum if I could talk to their subconcious mind without the interference of the concious. Depending on how I phrased the question, I did get satifactory results, and conclude hypnosis through that same method. Just one more way to have fun and conclude hypnosis at the same time. After all, it is a distraction method if you use it right, and there are may persons who are expecting you to use the pendulum, so why disapoint them? Also, an excellent way to show an open eyed induction, and prove that eye closure is not a requirement of hypnosis. Terry

[Jack]

Hi EC,

Don't think I said I believed it was entertaining. I did say I thought it was useful and not just a party trick. You may not do this but I like to involve clients in their therapy and the value of their own observations should not be underestimated at the risk of becoming arrogant. I will use any tool at my disposal, I will stand on my head, pull funny faces or anything else that offends my own sense of dignity to achieve a result for the client. I don't give a stuff for any methodology which does not show a result, but Chevreul's is too valuable a tool to be consigned to entertainment.

I actually like clients to try self diagnosis, again it is revealing, more so than expert probing. If they found chicken entrails to be a preferred method I would go along with it, as long as they took the entrails away with them but left me the chicken.;)

Jack

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Guys, I appreciate the discussion, but is there anyone who can help me? Jack, I tend to favor your point of you and actually I always believe it is better to do almost anything yourself. Can you help me out man?

[Merlin]

The pendulum is different from finger signals.
Both are ideomotor, but finger signals work better in deeper trance.

Pendulums can work in lighter trance (you don't need hypnosis), but it takes time/practice.

Establish what direction your mind wants to use for YES
Use perpendicular for NO.
Give your mind questions which are obviously YES or obviously NO.
-I am 5 years old
-I am a woman
-The sun is blue
and so on

be patient while your mind learns this
Practice about 20 minutes each day for a month.

Now you can use the pendulum.
Later, you can add the pendulum swinging clockwise for maybe or counterclockwise for dunno or similar.

That's it for self work using the pendulum.

[Merlin]

There needn't be hypnosis to use the pendulum :)

Of course, there can be.

[EC]

See Jack,
Now you got Youaregettingsleepy believing that he can self-heal if only he could learn our secrets. :D

To Youaregettingsleepy: As you can see from Merlin's simple example, you are learning to illicit information from the unconscious, and, you can solicit information that may be accurate. But you are not resolving anything. As an example, you might bite your nails, but wait, you already know that, you don't need the pendulum to tell you that. The real work comes in doing the steps to *stop* biting your nails. This is where a second person that knows what they are doing comes in. That is not to say that you absolutely cannot help yourself, but it takes training.

I sincerely wish there were an easy way to explain the power of change, but the truth is, it takes many years to become proficient in hypnosis just as it does in any other profession. If you have minor behaviors you would like to work on, by all means study, order a self help cd, etc, and go for it. On the other hand, if you are dealing with more troubling issues, call a therapist. They can help you with the more troubling stuff and can teach you much about self help. This will likely save you much misery and expense along the way.

Jack: When I received my initial hypnosis training in the late 70's, the pendulum was the analytical tool of choice for that school, and it is a powerful tool in the hands of a competent practitioner. At the same time, it's use in * self-solution* is extremely limited. That is why I refer to it as entertaining.

EC

[pinktrance]

i use a pendulum when i cant make my mind up, its also useful for asking the sub-conscious what the best form of treatment should be. i find that the best way to use it is to hold the pendulum about six inches up the string and say "please show me a yes" then "please show me a no" , when you have established which way is yes and no for you, (as the direction can be different for everyone) you should then ask "am i fit to dowse" if the pendulum says you are then you can go ahead and ask the pendulum anything you like, i find that it will not answer questions like will i ever be rich etc, the pendulum will say no you are not fit to dowse if you are angry or doing it for the wrong reasons etc. i think the pendulum method is absolutely brill, i use it for asking which flower remedies i should use and the combinations it comes up with are always spot on for what i need at that point, it never fails to amaze me, its like really special magic:)
cheers pinky

[Jack]

Hi,

You will note that I use the pendulum during therapy. The client is under my care and reports back to me. Nowhere do I advocate using any methods of contacting the subconscious without a professional therapist being involved. Of course people will do it but that is their responsibility.

That being said, I understand your need for DIY. But...the subconscious can be quite tricky when it comes to relative truth, and both the structure of questions and the interpretation of answers is crucial to gaining insight. It is difficult to be sufficiently objective to do it yourself, but your questions and answers are a good starting point for your therapist. As EC and Terry have said you can use it for fun if you want to but personally I think the chicken's entrails might be of more use.

Jack

[Merlin]

Hi EC,

>Now you got Youaregettingsleepy believing that he can self-heal if only he could learn our secrets

If Youaregettingsleepy only wishes to use the pendulum for play, finding misplaced items, asking advice at mealtime, etc. is should be ok.
I didn't see any reference to healing on Youaregettingsleepy's part.

[Merlin]

>personally I think the chicken's entrails might be of more use.

Nonsense Jack!

Merlin entrails are the *only reliable* way to go. :-D

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Merlin and others,
I am using self hypnosis and ideomotor questioning to become more confident when talking with others and also to project the "right" subliminal communication. I am well aware that Ideomotor questioning alone does no good but what I am after is to find the reasons why I am unconfident to approach a woman, or talk with a stranger, things like that. When I find that, if it is possible through the pendulum?, then I will use the hypnosis I have practiced to suggest it away. Does this sound correct?, I have also read a bunch by the way, a lot of material and practice time.

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Merlin, I was also wondering if by practicing 20 minutes a day you meant easy questions like is my hat blue or am I wearing shorts, or actually doing serious Ideomotor questioning to find dysfunctions?

[Merlin]

Hello,

Yes, I meant easy Yes/no questions.
That way your mind can learn.
The more practice with simple, obvious questions, the better.

When used by a hypnotisi, she usually has experience and can skip the subject's learning process.
When you are on your own, practice is best.
As your mind learns what you expect, more difficult questions are possible.

[EC]

Hi Merlin, Been a while;Sure you did.

Youaregettingsleepy,

>>I am using self hypnosis and ideomotor questioning to become more confident when talking with others and also to project the "right" subliminal communication <<

There is nothing wrong with attempting to help yourself, in fact, I think that is a good thing. But if you are going to ask for advice, consider taking it. If you want help, here it is one more time: You are asking for information on self-diagnostics and that is a waste of your time because you cannot cure yourself from what you will get here, no matter what we tell you. If you read the postings from Jack and Merlin closely, you should see that it is quite easy to "get" information, however, doing something productive with it is an entirely different matter. If you desire behavior change, then just focus on that, positive self-hypnosis rather than diagnostics, anchoring the state you want if you are familiar with NLP, etc.

EC

[EC]

Hi again, Youaregettingsleepy,

Hope you are getting along in your quest, just thought I might point you toward a newer thread in case you haven't been following it. Here is a fellow that seems to be getting good results, it might give you idea's. Here it is;


http://forum.hypnosis.com/showthread.php?t=703

Best of luck,
EC

[Youaregettingsleepy]

Dude, what is your problem. Read my entire post before you say what I did or did not write.

[EC]

>> Dude, what is your problem ? <<

I think this might be the question I should ask you, if you are referring to me YAGS ?

I simply tried to point you to another thread where you might get some idea's for self-suggestion. I don't recall saying that you did or didn't write anything ????

EC