To do instant inductions...

[ljrobison]

Do you basically have to confuse the brain with a command of sleep? I been watching a lot of videos on them, and basically they catch the person off guard straight from the start then interrupt in the middle of something saying "Sleep" very loud.
Is this the basic principle? Also, what can I do while they are in a trance?

[Jack]

Also, what can I do while they are in a trance?

If you don't know then don't induce trance. You are scaring the hell out of me with a question like that.

Jack

[Merlin]

'Sleep' has nothing to do with the induction.

[ljrobison]

Im just trying to find information. Im going to pick up McGills book, I had my local bookstore order it for me.

I do agree that you dont need to say sleep, but does it help?

I tried a modified dave ellman induction to someone and when I got to the part telling them to count backwards they just didnt respond, were they in a trance?

Following this, I did the you will forget the number 7 thing, then asked them some math questions, 2 plus 2 equals 4, 12 divided by 2 equals 6, then I asked 14 divided by 2 and he said 6, but everything after that he remembered 7. Did this work? Did he just fake the trance or did it just last for a few seconds?

[Poodle]

You have a lot of learning ahead of you and it will be FUN learning. First you have to know and recognize the signs of trance, test for depth, do convincers so the person knows s/he was in trance. You definitely need to sort out the functions of the unconscious mind and the conscious mind. They are totally different. You have to do a wonderful pre-talk or the hypnosis probably won't work.

Master the verbal inductions and then start on the rapids and instants.

Please stay out of people's minds until you are properly trained. Just what you were doing could be very, very harmful but you are not to where you can understand that yet.

Let's get some semantics straight right now. Trance is NOT sleep. It's TRANCE. A person is not UNDER. S/he is IN trance. No one has been asleep so why say something stupid like WAKE UP? People are emerged from trance. We've progressed a long way since Mesmer. Pood

[SgtFrog]

'Instant' inductions are fun, I use them in my magic routines.

ignore these other guys, I'll let you in on the secrets.

First I'd like you to understand that this wont work on everyone no matter what people say, you have to be selective over who you try this on. Personally I'll look out for people who respond well to my tricks, the ones who show real amazement. Also I act very dominant when I'm doing tricks, I look people in the eyes, I stand square to them, Poodle says things have come a long way since Mesmer but a lot of his principles still stand up today, he used very forceful language, strong eye contact and his reputation to hypnotise people. I like to think I do the same. So if your a naturally timid person and the people you try this on know that it will probably fail.

OK so I have shown a few tricks and have selected the person who I'm going to show my amazing mind control techniques to. I let them know its safe and that we're going to have some fun with it. I'll ask them to hold their arm out straight and grasp a coin that I've placed in their hand, I'll then hypnotise them in a fairly normal way using an arm fall technique, I'll throw out lines such as 'as your standing in front of me, notice how the coin feels like its becoming heavier, good, the coin becomes heavier and heavier, in fact soon it'll be too heavy to hold your arm up at all, and as your arm begins to get tired you 'll probably find your eyes start to feel tired, yes, and as your arm falls gently down so do your eyelids, down, down all the way, its quite relaxing isn't it, and as your eyelids start to drop you'll feel relaxed all over.. I'll keep bombarding them with this kind of talk until their eyes are closed. then into some depeners, then I'll do a forgetting the number 6 trick. wake em up and thank them for helping, after that the audience is primed and knows that you have these powers. Its time for an instant induction, ask for a volenteer or pick out someone who seems most focussed on the previous trick and invite them to join with a handshake, grasp their hand mid shake with your opposite hand and hold it for a second, try to gently release it whilst its out in front of them. if done succesfully then now is the time to deepen, en example of this would be 'as your standing there feeling relaxed I'd like you to take a deep breath, (wait for it) now as you breathe out let your arm drop to your side as you relax your whole body, good, as your relax even further id like to ask that you please stay there for just a moment. your quite comfortable and safe I'd like to tell you something that amazes me, you saw before how with a few simple words people can forget something as simple as a number, so if it's possible to forget a number it must be possible to forget anything right? I would like you to forget your name, in fact you dont have a name, its really simple if you just remember to forget then everything will be fine, ok now I would like toy to try to tell me your name, but notice how the harder you try to remember the easier it is to forget, ok, try to tell me your name. good. now I'm going to ask you to forget everything, where you are, what you ate for lunch, who I am notice how all these thoughts just vanish from your mind, don't forget to remember to forget everything I asked, good

the second person should be more responsive than the first as he has witnessed your powers before you use him, so you could get them to do much more stage hypnosis effects with them

[ljrobison]

Thanks! Do you happen to have AIM or any IM program? This is the kind of advice I am looking for. I would really enjoy talking to you some more.

[Poodle]

Stay away. Froggie doesn't know what s/he is writing about. Is Froggie GOD to be telling people things? It just doesn't work that way. Froggie is also totally messed up on Mesmer. Mesmer thought magnets did the work of stopping the bleeding (he bled people) until he used a stick and it still worked. He totally fell from grace writing Aminal Magnetism and having a medical review of his work. He fled back to Vienna.

Froggie sounds like something out of an old stage show with a swinging watch.

If you want to learn, learn right so the Instructor doesn't have to undo everything you have taken in. Pood

[Don]

First I'd like you to understand that this wont work on everyone no matter what people say, you have to be selective over who you try this on.

Then I regret to say that your instant induction isn't very good.

Personally I'll look out for people who respond well to my tricks, the ones who show real amazement.

Having done magic for over 30 years and a long-time member of Hollywood's famous Magic Castle, I can honestly say that I've never seen any relationship between amazement at magic with hypnosis. However, you certainly may have related what you think you experience to some other aspect that your training level has not prepared you for.

Poodle says things have come a long way since Mesmer

and she's correct!

but a lot of his principles still stand up today, he used very forceful language,

No, he didn't.

strong eye contact

No, he didn't.

and his reputation to hypnotise people.

No, he didn't. There has never been so much as a shred of evidence that Mesmer ever hypnotized anyone. What was shown was that people could obtain similar results using "suggestive therapy." The term "hypnosis" wasn't even coined for many years.

What Mesmer did use is far closer to what would today be called "energy healing," similar to Reiki, Therapeutic Touch, Laying on of Hands, etc.

What books on Mesmer have you actually read that made the claims you are making here? What are your sources?

...OK so I have shown a few tricks and have selected the person who I'm going to show my amazing mind control techniques to.

In the entire history of hypnosis and its predecessors, there has never been a case where hypnosis resulted in "mind control." In fact, cases where this has been claimed have been thrown out of courts.

I let them know its safe and that we're going to have some fun with it. I'll ask them to hold their arm out straight and grasp a coin that I've placed in their hand, I'll then hypnotise them in a fairly normal way

What is a "fairly normal way" to hypnotize someone?

using an arm fall technique, I'll throw out lines such as 'as your standing in front of me, notice how the coin feels like its becoming heavier, good, the coin becomes heavier and heavier, in fact soon it'll be too heavy to hold your arm up at all, and as your arm begins to get tired you 'll probably find your eyes start to feel tired, yes, and as your arm falls gently down so do your eyelids, down, down all the way, its quite relaxing isn't it, and as your eyelids start to drop you'll feel relaxed all over.. I'll keep bombarding them with this kind of talk until their eyes are closed. then into some depeners, then I'll do a forgetting the number 6 trick. wake em up and thank them for helping, after that the audience is primed and knows that you have these powers. Its time for an instant induction, ask for a volenteer or pick out someone who seems most focussed on the previous trick and invite them to join with a handshake, grasp their hand mid shake with your opposite hand and hold it for a second, try to gently release it whilst its out in front of them. if done succesfully then now is the time to deepen, en example of this would be 'as your standing there feeling relaxed I'd like you to take a deep breath, (wait for it) now as you breathe out let your arm drop to your side as you relax your whole body, good, as your relax even further id like to ask that you please stay there for just a moment.

That's your "instant" hypnosis technique? No offense, but LOL!!!!!:D

your quite comfortable and safe I'd like to tell you something that amazes me, you saw before how with a few simple words people can forget something as simple as a number, so if it's possible to forget a number it must be possible to forget anything right? I would like you to forget your name, in fact you dont have a name, its really simple if you just remember to forget then everything will be fine, ok now I would like toy to try to tell me your name, but notice how the harder you try to remember the easier it is to forget, ok, try to tell me your name. good. now I'm going to ask you to forget everything, where you are, what you ate for lunch, who I am notice how all these thoughts just vanish from your mind, don't forget to remember to forget everything I asked, good

the second person should be more responsive than the first as he has witnessed your powers before you use him, so you could get them to do much more stage hypnosis effects with them

Quite a story, but frankly, I think you've read something and are simply repeating it. Your understanding of Mesmer is filled with errors. Your rapid inductions aren't rapid. You've missed some very basic aspects of stage hypnosis that leave you easily open to failure in performance. And pershaps most importantly, you've left out a very important aspect of doing an induction for someone who is standing that could result in serious physical harm to your subject.

I would suggest that you study hypnosis more and in the meantime, stick to pulling silks from a Square Circle.

[Jack]

Couldn't agree more. It read like a press release written by a parrot.

Jack

[Terry]

[SgtFrog]...the fact that you...challenge the knowledge of experienced adults, and suggest they know less than you and should not be listened to is an insult to all on this board... How very sad, and how dangerous when presented to another undeveloped mind.
Too bad we don't have a place ...were you and your kin could ramble on without annoying those who really do know something about our art.

[Jack]

Nice to see you back, Terry, and in good form:)

Jack

[Terry]

Nice to see you back, Terry, and in good form:)

Jack Thanks Jack, nice to be back, and I hope improved.:D I even got my first nasty email telling me how little I know already....You gotta love it...

[sibirskikozak]

First of all you need to learn the fundamental theories of hypnosis, how it works and why it works.

Then you should practice hypnosis on some of you friends, once you get comfortable with standard inductions you can begin to wander into the stage/rapid inductions.

On stage you need to be aware of the fact that: you need to be always be authoritative, keep the one upsmanship and always retain credibility. If you fail once you have lost the show people will doubt you and you are pretty much screwed.

As for choosing subjects you need to do group hypnosis, heavy /light, have the crowd close their eyes hold their hands in from of them and feel the right hand get heavier and heavier etc etc and the left get lighter and lighter etc etc The ones who raise and lower their arms all the way up/down are your best bet.

After you have the subjects on stage you should do a few more group hypnosis on them to figure out who your most suggestible subjects are and send the rest of stage.

Stage hypnosis is hard, you have feel comfortable with inductions and suggestions, you always have to have control of the stage/crowd.

In short: you have to be a good hypnotist and a good stage actor in order to pull off a decent show, that is why many hypnotist do not attempt it. Those who attempt with out proper planning will ultimately fail.

[Connie]

Stage hypnosis is hard

No, it isn't! :) I also don't understand your term "one-upmanship" as a description of the hypnotist on stage.

[Poodle]

Stage hypnosis would be very difficult for those not properly trained.

Again, the poster does not understand. One does not need "one upmanship" - one needs "rapport" and we'll just leave the other little necessity a secret for now. Pood ;)

[Simon]

Gerald Kein teaches that there are a few conditions that need to be set before the induction can work:
- the person must agree and want to go in hypnosis
- establish mental expectancy so that the process is leveraged
- enhance that persons imagination

Also, make sure that you give appropriate suggestions (especially if they are standing) BEFORE doing the instant induction.

[Poodle]

It would be my understanding that one needs to know a lot about hypnosis and have good experience before jumping into instant inductions. That experience would not come from friends, it would come from fellow classmates with the instructor watching and helping and untimately clients. Rapid is nothing more than Elman. As has been stated on this Forum thousands of times, it is easy to induce trance but what one does while the person is in trance is what is sooo very important.

[Simon]

Poodle I totally agree, but from time to time I like to show off :D

[Poodle]

I know! You probably know more about NLP and hypnosis than most people would ever dream of knowing. Just wait until you get out of university and start practicing. WOW! Europe is going to be in for a BIG CHANGE.

[sibirskikozak]

No, it isn't! :) I also don't understand your term "one-upmanship" as a description of the hypnotist on stage.

What I meant to say, that to someone who has no experience hypnotizing should not immediately jump on stage.

Also stage hypnosis has acting involved for someone who is not experienced, ready and used to acting will falter or stumble during the show.

As long as one is prepared the actual show is not hard, but there are steps that need to be taken before the show to make sure the show runs smoothly.

I have seen good hypnotist do instant inductions off hand but in a show setting there needs to be a flow and an actual show to entertain the audience.

"One upsmanship" means that you have to be in charge. You are in control the way you establish the control is by being one step ahead of the audience, as soon as you loose credibility, face or an audience member takes control you have lost the show.

[Connie]

Thanks for the elaboration, Sibir! I take "one-upmanship" to mean more like the following:

"Yeah? So? That's nothing. I'm better than you are. I'm x-er than you are." It's a competition. Someone says they caught a cold. You caught malaria. Someone says they met a sales quota. You say you're the #1 salesman in 5 states and being feted by corporate bigwigs. Someone bought a new volvo. You've just bought a new hummer. Someone just went on a weekend vacation to Disneyworld. You spent a month in Bermuda. And so on. One-upmanship. Whatever you say, I'm one up on you!! :)

You can see why my understanding doesn't make sense in your context.

[Simon]

Poodle, thank you, I really appreciate it :)

I must start researching out laws a bit better, so that I'll know with what exactly must I deal.

[Poodle]

You have the wrong idea of stage hypnosis I think. A hypnotist is NEVER in charge. S/he is only facilitating. The people on stage are what the audience is interested in. Connie went to a stage hypnosis show training with one of the bests. She does know what she is writing about. I recently purchased an induction from that hypnotist with the promise that I will never teach it. It was $200 and showed the induction used in different style audiences. It's not "instant" but it is "rapid" and has some fun parts built into it which make the induction itself a large part of the show. It was expensive but heads and tails above what most are using. All participants were definitely in somnambulism as were some of the audience too.

[Merlin]

Well, that's Jerry.

[Snoopy]

If that is an rapid induction, What am I doing when I drop someone in a matter of seconds?

Snoopy (Terry)

[Terry]

Wow, someone is taking my name in vain!:D

A good instructor will often throw in a rapid induction to both impress the students, and also to give them something to aim for. Frankly, I have never felt it nescessary to use it in a live confrontation with a client, "nor would I ever teach it, since I preffer the disguised one carried out during the introduction, and followed by the apparently "instant" induction. It is seamless, and so smooth, it would well suite a stage hypnotist, while it impressed the hell out of clients..
Do they still use the "locked hands" method these days? I have never been to a stage show, and likely never will, though I may one day give one of my own just for fun.......:eek:
Weeeell, I do have the tux, and my melodious voice is captivating to the ladies and respected by the men.:D I know that because I am always asked to lead the "Oh Canada" at the start of our meetings....

[Poodle]

There are rapids and there are instants. Some instructors are teaching that time is money so don't spend time on the induction when you could be using that time to work with the client. All variations of an Elman are considered rapid but far from instant. I put most of mine in the pre-talk so it's about 95% done before I even start an induction. It's a lot of fun to do that. Try it. I think you'll like it. BTW, welcome back! Pood

[Poodle]

The only hands locked I have seen is a pre-induction like when we were kids - this is the church, this is the steeple (open the doors and in come the people). Fix your attention directly in the space between those index fingers. The SC mind wants those fingers to touch and it is quite difficult to make them stop.

[Terry]

Yes, I was taught that early on in my career, and has fun with it with those who suggested they couldn't be hypnotised. I recall however, that years back, I was informed that STAGE hypnotists, used a hands lock test to find the best subjects for the show. I consider other methods to be superior for the purpose, and wonder if they ever brought their methods up to date/..

[Merlin]

and wonder if they ever brought their
methods up to date/..

Of course we did :)

[Snoopy]

Thankyou for the Welcome back Pood.. I'm still around, Popping my head in here every now and again. I never realized how much call there was for this field of work. Being fulltime employeed and doing hypnotherapy on the side is starting to get too much.

Terry, Its ok mate, You're the original Terry in here, I'm just a latecomer. Over the time i've been here, I've learnt a lot from your posts, The wisdom in your words never stops amazing me.

I still havn't got around to purchasing that Induction DVD yet Pood, I've been meaning to time & time again, But other things keep popping up that require my attention. I still have the link to it though, and will get it in the near future.

Terry, I was taught the 'handlock' induction method as part of my training earlier this year, I think with a variation to the original however, Rather then the hands starting locked and becomming tighter, The method I was taught was the use of magnets to get them there to begin with.

Being only young, I still have a lot to learn about this field, Even though I have my certificate & was taught by a professional, I believe I've learnt as much since the completion of the course as I learnt during the course.

To all those people out there wanting to learn how to do this stuff, and are searching the internet for answers, I was once in your position, Thats how I originally started, I downloaded e-book after e-book read them, and was still unsatisified with what they have to say, However, after I recieved training, earned my certification, I picked those ebooks back up, read them again, and was amazed as to how much clearer they are now, How much more things make sence & how much they forget to tell you that you really have to know.

Yes training can be expensive, but there is no other way to learn if you want to do this properly. Those 3 or 4 weeks (Give or take) of professional, full time training will teach you the skills you can use for life, Not only with your clients, But also with yourself. There is One major thing that makes hypnosis work, and without it, You cannot possibly be sucessful, I'm sure the certified members of this forum would agree with me when I say, That one thing cannot be learnt from any book or webpage.

Snoopy

[Poodle]

You are so right. After we learn comes the real learning and all of a sudden those books make perfect sense and we may even read them two or three times and with each client comes additional learning as no two are the same. Hopefully, very, very soon you will be doing just hypnotherapy. It's just so wonderful to have people like you in our profession. Your clients are not the ones saying: I tried hypnosis but it didn't work for me.

Great work young man!! Hugs, Pood

[TheNotSoWorthyPlayboy]

Wow, I am amazed at the hostility shown to people wanting to learn. I understand about not giving dynamite to small children, but at the same time...you make hypnosis sound so ****ing complicated, dangerous and out of grasp for the average person, I think you've managed to suck the fun out of the idea completely.

Honestly, what the hell is wrong with you? You sound like the Goddamn clinical hypnotherapists where I am. They take it so seriously, that nobody wants to get into the field...more money for them, they are trying to make it so only doctors etc can use hypnosis.

AS for the young people wanting to learn: Hypnosis/NLP is fun. Even though I have only been doing it for 6 months, I have learned ALLOT without ANY formal training. Even aftger meeting a hypnotherapist here, and a few people using NLP, I found more success doing it on my own. Don't believe the hype: If others have LEARNED hypnosis on their own, so can you. And with the materials FREE on the internet, it simply takes time, patience, and a few willing (or unwitting!) friends, family, etc.

I got the Bandler induction to work, first try. Anchoring a la "speed seduction" within a few weeks. Elman induction 2nd try. It's is not necessarily your "skill" as a "hypnotist" simply your ability to read body language to know when to proceed.


Like everything in life, it is a LEARNED skill. You need to PRACTICE, and be OPEN to what results you get. Try things DIFFERENT ways. Change your intonation, mirror, pace, lead, build/break rapport, things people do naturally. Hypnosis is NATURAL, almsot ANYONE can do it.


Including YOU!


Yours truly,

The Not so Worthy Playboy, Jeremy

[Don]

Jeremy, NOBODY has said that learning to hypnotize isn't easy. What people here HAVE said is that what you do AFTER hypnotizing is very complex, requires study and training, and without that can result in screwing people up royally.

From your post, it sounds like you have virtually no concept of what hypnosis can accomplish. I hope that you actually do get some training and learn.

[Connie]

I hope that you actually do get some training and learn.

I don't. He's not someone I'd want representing the field in any way. I feel that there's a certain character, shall we say, and maturity necessary. He's not there.

[Don]

Connie, I feel a person has to start somewhere. If everyone waited until being completely mature before starting in-depth study of hypnosis, there'd be seven old fogies doing hypnosis still arguing over the value of Erickson.

I would contend that the more people study hypnosis the more they will realize its potential and what can be done with it. IMO that builds maturity and personal responsibility.

[Simple Guy]

Don,

I resent the old fogie reference. Nah, that wouldn't necessarily be me
among the seven, as some might question my complete maturity. ;)

With regards to: "I would contend that the more people study
hypnosis the more they will realize its potential and what can
be done with it. IMO that builds maturity and personal
responsibility" -- I wouldn't necessarily ascribe to this. What
comes to my mind was an invitation to teach
prisoners "critical thinking," that I declined. I've some law enforcement
friends and am pleased to know that the dumbness of many street
criminals is what often leads to their apprehension. I wouldn't want
criminals to be better at their "trade." With rescidivism rates so
high, empowering them to higher levels of thinking without an ethical
foundation to not further offend, wouldn't be something I'd participate
in.

The parallel to hypnosis and other "skill sets" isn't hard to construe.
There are lots of people I wouldn't want to train in hypnosis.

[Terry]

I believe we need to take care with our words here. Learning hypnosis can and often does mean learning to hypnotise, and has no connection to therapy. Unfortunately, so often those who reach this simple stage think there is no need to go further, and that is where they risk trouble....
I am sick and tired of idiots who think they know so much from reading books, and condecend to tell those who have been in the trenches and done the work needed to be competent that they don't know what they are talking about.
I have no intention of putting myself on the line by giving out information to idiots, or to teens not yet ready to cope with the problems that can arise. I believe Frog and his ilk should not be allowed to diseminate false information
on this board which so many depend on for real help.....

[TheNotSoWorthyPlayboy]

The "holier then thou" and proper act is exactly what kills creativity and advancement. If it weren't for those "young idiots" many of you would still be swinging clubs, let alone pocket watches.

Yes, there is value in what has been done, and the collective experience of many people. The exclusive "old fogey club" is exactly what keeps people away from wanting to do this line of work. And without people such as frog, who have little knowledge but still dream of doing interesting things, we wouldn't have a community.

Because your all going to get old and die, or change careers, or retire, (or in Ontario, not be able to practice if you're not a medical professional if this law gets passed) and it will be the young blood who keeps it going.

In case I am losing my memory, it is the dreams (no matter how unrealistic) and crazy idea's that get people motivated enough to actually LEARN all the boring crap in ANY profession. Reality might give you something different then you wanted. That doesn't change the fact that people still need to be sold on some idea to want to learn.

[Don]

The "holier then thou" and proper act is exactly what kills creativity and advancement. If it weren't for those "young idiots" many of you would still be swinging clubs, let alone pocket watches.


Actually, any sort of divisiveness, such as telling others to stop acting "holier than thou" which, in reality, is claiming that you're "holier than thou" is what kills creativity and advancement. If not for the "old fogies" the "young idiots" would have anything to be idiotic about. The world needs all of us.

By the way, start studying Jung and individuation and you'll see the value of what's going on.

Oh, and one more thing: pocket watches are kewl. Wristwatches are so 20th century. :)

[Connie]

As Simple Guy was getting at, maturity has nothing whatsoever to do with chronological age.

[Poodle]

The NOT so WORTHY playboy. I wonder, really wonder, what would happen if all of a sudden he found himself to BE WORTHY?

[Terry]

Sorry that I have the habit of calling a spade a spade, but I see no way to be nice to those who lack the abiltiy to learn from the turning of the other cheek, they just hit out again and the poster gets two sore cheeks.:(

As for the silly comments, I am sure that Playboy has and will contribute nothing...

[Jack]

I'm not going to comment on what NSWPB has said other than to say most of it is true, but applied inappropriately on this forum.

The amount of encouragement and information given to novices here totally for free is quite unusual. That professionals should take time out from their businesses to post here gives the lie to any accusations of insularity or hostility.

Occasionally, a troll appears, or an idiot, and both are given short shrift; in my opinion rightly so. Sometimes a poster appears who wants to create an argument simply because they have little to say that is constructive or useful, and we should accept that they have their reasons for doing so, and encourage them to seek help.

But the world, and this forum is big enough to listen to them all, or if one prefers, not to listen.

Jack

[Connie]

Connie, I feel a person has to start somewhere. If everyone waited until being completely mature before starting in-depth study of hypnosis, there'd be seven old fogies doing hypnosis still arguing over the value of Erickson.

When I said "maturity," I did not say "completely mature." Thinking I did is completely manure. :) It's a subjective point on the sliding scale of maturity in my mind, and the threshhold for conducting a reasoned and ethical and somewhat empathetic job like hypnotherapy...the person I was alluding to was nowhere near it. I notice you also ignored my comment about "character." That's also highly subjective and intangible, but when it's not up to snuff, that seems obvious and bright like a beacon to me.