Vision Improvement

[VernreV]

I've recently become aware that I'm quite near sighted and I know many folks with eye problems. So my question is:

Can hypnosis have a positive effect on someones vision loss? What kind of improvement have you seen occur?

[Poodle]

Hypnosis can restore vision; however, for some reason it goes back to what it was so it is not stable. LASIK would probably prove to be cheaper and longer lasting. Again, one would have to be very careful about whom to use. There are even more interesting things on the horizon that just need to get through the FDA. What one person would call "quite myopic" would not necessarily be the definition of another so we are talking about -?? here? Pood

[VernreV]

That's interesting that it improves and then reverts back. If that's the case atleast theres hope in using hypnosis. There's got to be a way to make it stick.

I don't have a clinical value to give you. A few months ago I took an eye exam for a new employer, and I did poorly. I think the manager basicly passed me, even though I was borderline on that test.

However I can perfectly see the trees half a mile away so it can't be to bad.

My mothers vision is on the decline the past few years as well, although I'd have a hard time getting her to see a hypnotherapist, but I might be able to convince her. Conventional medicine hasn't done much for improvement.

Looking into options.

[Jack]

From my experience near-sightedness can be helped by hypnotherapy, but it seems to depend upon the degree of physical deterioration which has taken place. Pood is quite right to point up the differences, but in the few cases I have dealt with there seems to be no regression other than that caused by physical trauma or aging.

You can try the Bates Method (google it) or take a look at http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/5902/links.html they seem to have had some success and there are lots of links on their site.

Jack

[Merlin]

From my experience, near sightedness is a symptom.
So, help with hypnosis depends on the cause.
I know of people who teach telephoto-zoom-vision
Just make the image bigger.

[Poodle]

I could use that now to thread a needle, etc. Sometimes being a little myopic is a blessing! I had not tried it myself. I was just told by Bandler that he had been working with it and it would not stay. Maybe Bandler should meet Jack.

Reason is light not hitting on retna. This can be corrected surgically with LASIK by reshaping the cornea so the light has to go back to the retna, although when the docs look in the eyes, it's obvious that it's still messed up back there. Mine seemed to happen with the Measles and continued to worsen. At 15 I got contacts and wore them until I had RK in 1980 (three times and that do HURT). Then after a number of years one was near and the other far so it was a mess and I just had LASIK and am pretty much normal now, at least in the eye department that is. LOL!! FDA is also working on small rings that go around the iris but I don't think that has been approved yet. Legally blind in the US is -4.00 diopters and I was a -12, which meant I was three times legally blind. Most eye surgeons did not want to work with people like me but I was lucky and just happened to find the best in the US.

I do know if I get cataracts, my poor doc is in for a heck of a lot of work as none of the readings will be correct. He'll just have to earn his pay.

[VernreV]

It looks like results can vary a great deal and that makes sense.

I don't think I could hurt my vision using hypnosis, so there isn't much to lose.

Telephoto-zoom-vision sounds like something a DHE'r would do, sounds cool! And the Bates method is new to me, but I'll give it a try.


Thanks for the tips!:)

[Merlin]

Glad you're doing well.
I fear RK and Lasik.
What happens when the eye changes again, as it often does?

Size perception is a learned behaviour.
It can change.
Focus is also often a learned behaviour.

[Indigotrance]

I am not familiar with that terminology.. telephoto-zoom- vision. What is that? or does it have another name?

I have heard NLP can restore eyesight. I personally havent had that experience as I havent worked with it yet but I know others that have. Hypnosis would be a good adjunct to work with your unconscious mind on the matter.

Perhaps the 2 together are good modalities of therapy?

Annie

[Jack]

Size perception is a learned behaviour.
It can change.
Focus is also often a learned behaviour.

It may be when the eye is young. But when macular degeneration occurs in older people it is the result of physical damage and as such not learned but rather forced and is not reversible. There are instances when eyesight clarity is dependent upon emotional factors, and I think this is what you mean?

Jack

[pmdigi]

lutein sometimes helps macular degeneration - a nutritional supplement

[Jack]

lutein sometimes helps macular degeneration - a nutritional supplement

That is true. What lutein apparently does is slow down the degeneration, but it does not reverse it.

Jack

[Poodle]

"I've heard NLP can" -- from whom did you hear this? A trainer? A practitioner"?? Eager eyes want to know. Pood ;)

[Ice_9]

'Tis only hearsay, I admit, but back when I did my Prac, I was informed of a woman who through the GHP attained what she described to be perfect vision.

This consisted of drawing a semi circle with blindness at one extreme and eprfect vision at the other. Via GHP she attained her own current level and whether she can attain perfect vision.

Then through hypnosis and NLP, she achieved her results in less than 60 days.

Apparently.

[Poodle]

You are in England. Bandler teaches in England and he is the one that says it is not permanent so exactly who are your sources???? I'm sure he would LOVE to know since he co-developed NLP and it is being offered as NLP??? Maybe it's just a matter of changing those submodalities from fuzzy picture to clear bright picture and anchor them in, huh?

[Nigel H]

Hi all

I too have heard it can restore eye-sight whilst on my Master Prac training from our trainer and a couple of other hypnotherapists there knew of this in theory also...

A good book on this is:

Better eyesight without glasses - by W.H. Bates, MD

could be helpful to anyone interested in this option/methodology!

There was a lady on my training who regained her hearing in an ear that she had required a hearing aid in for many years, she was dumbfounded and amazed - as was her doctor who was also on our course....... this occured after doing a breakthrough session at the very end of the Master Prac course...... funky stuff!

Nig

[Connie]

Hubby is quite interested in this topic, we ordered the book "Hypnovision" by Lisette Scholl for him from Amazon. Unfortunately, the seller took our money and never sent the book. We're still looking for a copy... :p

[Poodle]

Contact Amazon. They will give you your money back. A year or two ago I purchased a Rossi book. Never came. Seller said it got lost in the mail. I did get my money credited EVENTUALLY.

[Connie]

Thanks! We did get the $ back, but it was a huge rigamarole! I just ordered another copy, same place, different seller! $35 cheaper than the last copy of the same book.

[Poodle]

Jack has already mentioned the Bates Method. Care to look when Bates was alive? Hee hee! Pood

[Ice_9]

You are in England. Bandler teaches in England and he is the one that says it is not permanent so exactly who are your sources???? I'm sure he would LOVE to know since he co-developed NLP and it is being offered as NLP??? Maybe it's just a matter of changing those submodalities from fuzzy picture to clear bright picture and anchor them in, huh?

First of all, I did state it was hearsay. But seeing as you asked...
My source? Why it's David Shephard:

Founder of the Performance Partnership
Managing Director and Head of Training and Research
Certified Master Trainer of NLP
President of The American Board of NLP
Master Trainer of Time Line Therapy®
Doctor of Esoteric Studies
Instructor of Hypnotherapy

This is the same David Shephard who wrote the sleeve notes for Tad James's Hypnosis: A Comprehensive Guide and who also co delivers training in NLP, TLT and hypnosis, around the world, with Tad James.

Y'know, it's really quite funny. With these wonderful tools we can push back the boundaries of what's possible, and develop further - even beyond "traditional" NLP - and yet here we have someone who is religiously sticking to what one man has said. One man who - by her own admittance - is prone to changing his mind.

What's even funnier is that I am reminded of something David Shephard said. He told us, people often say that NLP doesn't work or doubts just what is possible with NLP. He then pointed at his George Benson signature guitar and said that he doesn't sound like George Benson when he plays. And he said "if I took it back to the shop and complained it was broken, because I didn't sound like George Benson when I played it, they'd think I was a bit of a tw@t".

He also told us that he bought the same sports car as featured in a James Bond film but that he didn't achieve the adventure or success of James Bond. And he said: "if I took it back to the shop and complained it was broken, because I didn't become James Bond, they'd think I was a bit of a tw@t".

...

[Merlin]

Hey Pood,

Eyesight correction can be permanent :)
Just consider,
If you can change eyesight at all, then you're correcting the eyesight issue (changing lens focus)
If you can correct eyesight for 10 seconds you can change it for 30 seconds.
If you can correct eyesight for 30 seconds you can change it for 30 minutes.
If you can correct eyesight for 30 minutes you can change it for 30 hours.
If you can correct eyesight for 30 hours you can change it for 30 days, etc.

There are two issues here.
One is making the change the other is time/keeping the change..

So, deal with the issue(s) as to why the mind wants the bad eyesight, not just the symptom of bad eyesight.

PS, yes I know this method is taboo.
Must not dig into the past. Just deal with the present presenting symptoms.
But, you know what? It works.

[Connie]

Is "twit" a dirty word?? I didn't know. :D

[Merlin]

twit usually isn't
twat is though

[skip]

"So, deal with the issue(s) as to why the mind wants the bad eyesight, not just the symptom of bad eyesight.

PS, yes I know this method is taboo. Must not dig into the past. Just deal with the present presenting symptoms.

But, you know what? It works."

That is not taboo Merlin it is just good sense. Always look for secondary and primary gain.

You just dont need to delve into the past to do it.

Regress to cause, what for?

It is why you are doing it now that counts. ;)

skip

[Merlin]

Skip,
all we have is the past/memories.
without them our mind is blank.

[skip]

Damn, there went my hopes and fears for the future.

[Merlin]

Damn, there went my hopes and fears for the future

Non-causality?
You know the future as a memory before the synaptic pathways are created?

[Ice_9]

Great edit Don.

Especially as there were no insults at all in what I wrote.

What you edited merely asked what David Shephard would think of someone, practising NLP, who was so passionate and obstinate about their own limiting decisions.

Then I asked how does someone do that - is it - by chance - by the same method of submodality change and anchoring that she posed to me?

If you're going to edit insults then:
1) Make sure insults are there. Mine was no more insulting than Poodle's response.
2) Ensure others follow teh same code.
3) Make it fair. Mindreading like mad here but am certain you did so due to the poster being retorted in kind was Poodle.

[Don]

I'm glad you liked the edit.

If you don't see how insulting your post was, that is a problem you are having.

Do you really think by repeating the same behavior you're going to get a different result?

If you have something to say, say it without insulting people. I cannot ensure that others won't post insults, but I, and the other moderators, can edit out the insults.

And FYI, I have edited posts by Poodle, too. Looks like you might need some more practice in the mind reading area.

[Jack]

It is peculiar how all supposed dirty words refer to either sex or defecation.
Twit, fortunately does not have any reference, but may be a corruption of twat, which refers to the female sexual organ, and a dubious way of using a rude word in polite conversation. A little like people use 'freaking' or 'frigging' when the meaning is crystal clear.

Jack

[Merlin]

One of the 'dirtiest' comments is 'go have sex'

Twit often referrs to birds, or bird brained.
Twitter.

[Poodle]

I too restored hearing to a lady with just a script I found on the old "hypnosis.com". It was just an "extra" as that is not why she had come to me. I like to throw in an "extra" if I know about it. It was in hypnosis tho. Pood

[Ice_9]

Do you really think by repeating the same behavior you're going to get a different result?

If you have something to say, say it without insulting people.

See, when I made the 2nd post, I left out ALL references to potential insults. Therefore, I did not repeat the behaviour.

What was left was asking a question and then using Poodle's own words that she used to me.


Ergo, if her post can go unedited - even with the sarcastic tone - so can mine.

[Ice_9]

So Don,

...

This is the same question - reworded slightly - all the whilst paraphrasing what Poodle ACTUALLY said. Then finished off with Poodle's own turn of phrase.


So, Poodle, How do you do that? Holding fast to what one man said... is a limiting belief and one that is at odds with every presupposition of NLP?

Maybe it's just a matter of changing those submodalities from fuzzy picture to clear bright picture and anchor them in, huh?

[Don]

See, when I made the 2nd post, I left out ALL references to potential insults. Therefore, I did not repeat the behaviour.


I realize you are having difficulty in understanding what insults are. I also realize that you're having difficulty seeing repetition in your behavior.

Never fear! Moderators here will gladly help you by editing or deleting insults or attempted manipulation.

[Ice_9]

Not at all Don.

No manipulation at all. What you have edited - and citing as insults/manipulation - is merely a simple question

[Don]

Ice, as I stated before, your posts indicate that you don't understand your attempt to manipulate me or how you are insulting people.

If you want to PM me on this, fine. I'll be glad to point out what you are doing. As a moderator it is not my job to show everyone what you are doing, just make sure that anyone's insults are edited or deleted.

I let your actual point go through in a previous post. If you want to ask questions are make statements without insulting people you are welcome to do so.

However, further insults and attempts to manipulate people in this thread will simply be deleted.

[Ice_9]

PM duly sent.

By the way, David Shephard used the process to remove his need for glasses. And that was back in 1993.

[Nigel H]

I did my training with David - never knew he had restored his eyesight, so thanks for mentioning it!!

Nig

[Ice_9]

No worries!

David is quite an amazing chap and his NLP skills are feted the world over.

For example:

1) His tears can cure cancer.

2) He used his extensive TLT knowledge to go back in time to stop the JFK assassination. As Oswald shot, Chuck met all three bullets with his quiff, deflecting them. JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement.

3) He once bet NASA he could survive re-entry without a spacesuit. On July 19th, 1999, a naked Chuck Norris re-entered the earth's atmosphere, streaking over 14 states and reaching a temperature of 3000 degrees. An embarrassed NASA publicly claimed it was a meteor, and still owes him a beer.

[Nigel H]

OK so now I am confused - what has this got to do with anything .... and is that 'tongue in cheek' or do you not like David for some reason?

Does that relate back to previous edited comments of yours Ice9 ?

Nig

[Connie]

I'm just wondering what Chuck Norris has to do with this conversation? :p

http://bassten.net/pix/chuck_norris.png

[Nigel H]

I guess he can also do 'anything' in movie-land ....!!

Who knows .................

[Ice_9]

Chuck Norris is the man!

There never needs to be a point for Mighty Chuck to be relevant.

[Nigel H]

Not so sure there Ice ?!?!?!

I mean - have you seen 'Walker - Texas Ranger' .... pure unadulterated CHEESE - not quite like his earlier stuff !

[Connie]

Chuck is possibly the worst actor alive. :p

We got our copy of "Hypnovision" yesterday. Apparently, it's an 8 week process. Hubby's doing it! We'll let you know in 8 weeks if he's done with his glasses.

[Jack]

So, deal with the issue(s) as to why the mind wants the bad eyesight, not just the symptom of bad eyesight.

PS, yes I know this method is taboo.
Must not dig into the past. Just deal with the present presenting symptoms.
But, you know what? It works.

Agree totally. Not taboo to me. I use either formal or informal regression to cause with around 80% of clients. Reason? Because that is where the answer lies and my success rate impresses even me.:D If it aint broke...

Jack

[Mentalius]

Jack has already mentioned the Bates Method. Care to look when Bates was alive? Hee hee! Pood

And? Older tech´s doesn´t apply anymore? When did Milton live??? Hee Hee!

[Terry]

Is "twit" a dirty word?? I didn't know. :D English slang, a short way of saying "nitwit" ie, the wit of a nit or louse. An "Idiot" :D But of course, a much nicer way of saying it

[Candida]

Hi Connie!

I'm interested to know the outcome of your husband's work with Hypnovision.

[Connie]

Actually, that book got lost in the pile(s) and he hasn't begun work on it yet. It's still on his "to do" list, though. :p

[Candida]

Oh, I know the feeling! My books overflowed the bookcases long ago--but "piles" qualify as a filing system, right?

[Poodle]

I've been working with a client once a week for over a month now with it. Her vision does come to perfect after the session and lasts for quite some time. I'm hoping to have it totally perfect by the time we finish. She is very, very excited about it. I'm using exactly what Richard Bandler used to change his.

Pood :)

[Candida]

That's wonderful, Poodle!

I was wondering if perhaps the reason the vision improvements don't last is that we continue to use our eyes in the same old way. Just thinking that if we are always concentrating on a book or a monitor that is the same distance in front of our gaze, a "shortcut" process could kick in, scooting us from our new, improved eyesight back toward the practical (but not desired) focus on that particular distance. What do you think?

[Poodle]

To me it's clear cut -- we either have perfect vision or we don't. It's on the order of LASIK. Do we fall back into bad habits after LASIK? No, if we tried, we would be unable to see.

I would have believed none of this if it were not for our lovely and talented Merlin who consistently thinks outside the box.

My client has quite bad vision as in -3.5's which is close to double legally blind and for long periods of time she needs no correction (contacts). Those "long periods of time" need to be permanent is all. She is not being charged for this as she comes for another issue so it's a nice freebie.

Pood :)

[Merlin]

My box is bigger than your box! http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/Eyes/Wink.gif
ha ha

[Poodle]

...but my box continually expands because of your box.

PS - Just noticed the new "title". Congratulations. You definitely deserve it.

Pood

[Merlin]

Pood,
I once met a man with a dollar.
We traded dollars.
We each left with a dollar.

Later, I met a woman with an idea.
We traded ideas.
We each left with two ideas :)

[eccles1214]

I've recently become aware that I'm quite near sighted and I know many folks with eye problems. So my question is:

Can hypnosis have a positive effect on someones vision loss? What kind of improvement have you seen occur?
I know this is an old post, but have you considered trying, what another poster Connie already said, Hypnovision by Lisette Scholl? I've had moderate success with this book. She has also written the book Visionetics, based on the Bates Method but does not use hypnosis, but in her introduction to Hypnovision, she recommends that you use her new methods and NOT what she suggests in Visionetics.

[Poodle]

I have done it with age regression and finally got the mind to let it stay that way. I'm not talking about a slight change.I am writing that the vision went from close to -4.00's to PERFECTION and has stayed that way.

I can only thank Merlin for again thinking "out of the box" together with some help from Richard Bandler.

Gosh, Merlin, should we write a book? I would guess it would be about one page in length at the most. :eek:

Pood

[skip]

Ah but what a page!

skip

[Poodle]

and exactly who was the person that put that little "bug" in my ear? I believe his name is Skip?

You can write the book!!

Hugs~Pood

[Mentalius]

John Grinder published a video some 25 ys. ago, wondering if it´still around?

Frank

[Merlin]

My lovely friend,
This is so exciting!

I love it when someone succeeds!

[Merlin]

>Gosh, Merlin, should we write a book?

Just finished with helping on two. <whew>

>I would guess it would be about one page in length at the most.

Yep.

Think outside the box ;)

[Poodle]

That would be the title - ;)

[Don]

I would respectfully suggest a different title.

There is s subtle implication when one says "Think outside the box." Specifically, that things are defined as being either inside or outside the box. That means even if you are trying to "Think outside the box" the very concept of "a box" is defining your mode of thinking.

Therefore, rather than using the box to define your thinking, I would suggest a title such as

"Thinking Without a Box"
or
"Box? What Box?"
or
"Thinking Without Borders"

etc.

:D :D :D

[Merlin]

Thanks.
It'll actually be: (at this point)
Same House Different Window

[Candida]

I think it really would be terrific, if you're satisfied with your technology, to make the concept available to others. If it's too short for a book, you could publish it as a download. Or you could combine it with your other favorite techniques to make a book. I'd buy it!

[Poodle]

I sent thru PM what I did to Jack in England and we will find out if he has the same results that I did. There was one thing I was doing differently than what he had been doing so I guess we'll SEE. :)