Psychologists and hypnosis...

[Steffan_Effenburg]

I'd like to take the following quote from another thread as a slight change of subject:

Psychologists have been saying for years that only MDs, and psychological professionals should be able to do hypnotherapy of any sort. We're a threat to their pocketbook as we can accomplish many of the things they do quicker and for a much lower cost.

They will bring up the fact that currently, anyone can put up a shingle as a hypnotherapist even if they've had little or no training, and may not be able to handle situations such as abreactions or make claims that are not supportable. That's true. That's why we have certification boards. They're far from perfect, but at least they give an indication that someone actually has sufficient training.


What do you think a licensed psychologist would add to the table as a hypnotherapist over a person just trained in hypnosis?

At present I'm mulling over the possibility of going to university and studying psychology, however for the past month or so having had my first taste of B&G books (Frogs, UYBFAC) cynicism is starting to creep in. Here in the UK CBT is the order of the day for psychologists, I love the original works of Albert Ellis that started it all but newer 'improved' versions with elaborate theories have become institutionalized. I don't believe modern CBT is nearly as effective as NLP/hypnosis still buggering about with things like systematic desensitization which B&G were dismissing before I was born.

The only reason I'm still considering doing psychology at university is because of the insight into behavioural patterns that may aid in diagnosing and treating with hypnosis, I always hear this on the forum, get somebody who knows the condition well. Do you think this is a worthwhile pursuit of somebody who ultimately wishes to train in hypnosis?

[Poodle]

Does UK = England? If so, then NLP is taught and properly soooo to psych students. Yes, Bandler does come down hard on psychologists and has good reason to do it. He studied some psychology. With a traditionalist psychologist MDP, OCD can take years on years as it's just talk therapy. In NLP it's a matter of minutes. Hypnosis is not quite as fast as NLP but still gets the job done well. You go to University, you will be a licensed practitioner, you will be a NLP Master Prac and you can also learn hypnosis. How much more of a wonderful life could you dream of?

Also in March at Trainer's Training there were some psychologists from Europe so Richard had to do some "back tracking".

Maybe you can relate to a psychologist I saw on a documentary show here in the USA. If a person had an elevator phobia, they had to say all day long for a while "I'm afraid of elevators" or an airplane "I'm afraid of airplanes". It was absolutely the stupidst use of language I had ever seen. He "thought" he was desensitizing the people where as he was actually making that fear/phobia larger and grander by the hour.

Be ALL that you can be and don't stop learning just because you will be out of University. :) Pood

[Steffan_Effenburg]

Does UK = England? If so, then NLP is taught and properly soooo to psych students. Yes, Bandler does come down hard on psychologists and has good reason to do it. He studied some psychology. With a traditionalist psychologist MDP, OCD can take years on years as it's just talk therapy. In NLP it's a matter of minutes. Hypnosis is not quite as fast as NLP but still gets the job done well. You go to University, you will be a licensed practitioner, you will be a NLP Master Prac and you can also learn hypnosis. How much more of a wonderful life could you dream of?

Also in March at Trainer's Training there were some psychologists from Europe so Richard had to do some "back tracking".

Maybe you can relate to a psychologist I saw on a documentary show here in the USA. If a person had an elevator phobia, they had to say all day long for a while "I'm afraid of elevators" or an airplane "I'm afraid of airplanes". It was absolutely the stupidst use of language I had ever seen. He "thought" he was desensitizing the people where as he was actually making that fear/phobia larger and grander by the hour.

Be ALL that you can be and don't stop learning just because you will be out of University. :) Pood

I honestly didn't know that NLP was part of the prospectus in England, from the literature I browsed it seem to generally be CBT and a lot of theoretical stuff, how on earth do you reconcile NLP and CBT? The example you mentioned is not unusual on British TV. Check this, on BBC4 there is a show called 'The Panic Room' where phobics are put into a nasty studio. Images of spiders, wasps, snakes (whatever the fear is) are projected onto a huge screen, the test is to see how long they last until they break down into a quivering wreck. The psychologist then guides them through a week-long programme of CBT where they challenge the 'underlying' negative beliefs with reframes like 'It cannot heart me' etc. After the week they throw them back into the 'panic room' and the show concludes with the poor subjects standing there tentatively affirming their reframed beliefs to the monstrous images, success.

That rubbish aside I guess my dilemma from an academic point of view is whether to go into psychology or linguistics, the choice is not a reaction to my knowledge of NLP, I had an interest in both subjects long before but after reading Frogs it's at fever pitch. However, Bandler's jokes and your reference to 'back tracking'...is the stuff they teach actually useful or mere elaborate institutionalised theory that entrenches thinking along certain lines? Thanks for the feedback P.

[Poodle]

From what Richard said they are now teaching at university for psych students in the "real deal". He said that is one of the reasons he is living in England. If you were to study linguistics, you would still need a referral from a licensed health care provider for numerous things; however, if you are a psychologist you are a licensed health care provider so you will be able to do what you want. John that trains with Richard should be returning to the USA one of these days. I can ask him the exact particulars if you are really that interested.

Years ago if they would have had me in that "Panic Room" someone would have ended up very dead and I would have ended up "sectioned" as you call it.

Why don't you get some newer books like "Magic In Action" and "Time For A Change". I would imagine McKenna has a NLP store and if not him, then Kate Benson probably would. We have found out tho that since the US$ is soo low that it is cheaper to fly to Orlando to take the courses than in London. Crazy world, huh?

[TaffyE]

Does UK = England? :mad:

NO NO NO. UK = The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which Enlgand is only ONE PART.

As a Welshman, and probably for the Scots and Northern Irish too. there is an inbuilt objection to us all being classed as "English" :D

Get your atlas out, Bloody Yanks :)

[Poodle]

Sorry Taff. The error was in my question. I know the UK extends beyond England so it was very easy to put in UK = England? as poster wrote "here in the UK". Next time I won't take the short cut and ask: Specifically where are you located within the UK? Pood ;)

[Don]

Back to the original question of "What do you think a licensed psychologist would add to the table as a hypnotherapist over a person just trained in hypnosis?"

Could be a great deal. Could be nothing. It depends upon the training and practice a person gets in either.

I would suggest that your question is similar to "What do you think a licensed psychologist would add to the table as a brain surgeon over a person just trained in brain surgery?

They could complement each other beautifully. However in most cases a person will focus on one or the other and interpret the other in light of the one where the focus is.

Thus, if someone spends years getting a degree in psychology but only takes a few courses in hypnotherapy, hypnosis ends up being an adjunct to the psychological practice. This is what I've usually seen, although your personal experience may be different.

While both psychotherapeutics and hypnotherapy often have the same goals, some of the attitudes and basic beliefs--their paradigms--can differ dramatically.

In my experience--and again, that of others may be different--it is easier to earn more money as a licensed psychotherapist. You can easily get insurance funds and you need a very small advertising budget. In fact, depending upon your focus, you may not need to advertise at all. You can also make a great deal of money as a hypnotherapist, but it requires (at least initially) more money, time, and energy spent in advertising and publicity.

So could you become a licensed psychologist to practice hypnotherapy? Possibly, however in the U.S. it could cause problems. You are expected to follow the direction of one book, the DSM-IV. If you don't you are outside of your area of specialty and could receive complaints. Alternatively, you could set yourself up as a hypnotherapist and list yourself as a licensed psychologist, but as I said, you could run into problems.

And of course, if you spend three or four years studying psychology and some more years in training, and after spending tens of thousands of dollars or more for that degree and licensing, and when you have spent all this time being indoctrinated into the philosophy and beliefs of the psychological paradigm, would you really abandon it merely because you have a desire to help people more quickly and less expensively? Most people don't.

[Jack]

:mad:

NO NO NO. UK = The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which Enlgand is only ONE PART.

As a Welshman, and probably for the Scots and Northern Irish too. there is an inbuilt objection to us all being classed as "English" :D



Quite right too, Taff. I would not like to be called Welsh.:D

Jack

[Jack]

In some UK universities NLP is taught to psychology students as a very small part of a 3 or (in Scotland) 4 year degree course.

It is not given much time in the syllabus compared to, let's say, CBT.

Rather than asking whether Linguistics or Psychology is the right way to go, why don't you ask yourself which of the two interests you most?

For what it's worth my own experience tells me that students do best at that which they enjoy, but remember that very few pyschology graduates leave uni and become practicing psychologists and members of the BPS. Most go into industry, in PR, Human Resources or as graduate management trainees.

And perhaps you might also remember that psychology will not change until psychologists change it. To do that you have to be one.

Jack

[Don]

psychology will not change until psychologists change it. To do that you have to be one.
Jack

Hi, Jack.

I think this is quite correct.

My only question is, after three or four years of in-depth study--not even counting clinical practice and the many tens of thousands of Pounds, Euros, or Dollars spent--will (the study of) psychology change psychologists before any psychologists will change psychology?

[Merlin]

If you want to learn auto repair, do not study bovine reproduction habits (IMO).
If you want to learn hypnosis, learn hypnosis.

[Poodle]

Checked with Dr. B. He said he was referring to MD's receiving the "real deal" at university. Decide what you want to do. Hypnosis is wonderful and NLP just may be better. It really is cheaper to take the Orlando, FL program than to do it in London. The US$ has fallen to historic lows, air carriers are now free to offer more intercontental discounts so your big expense would be the hotel & the training. In London, tho with McKenna, you would also get your Cert. in hypnosis. You would have to check with his site to find out exactly how much hypnosis is included with the NLP. In the US program it is not very much and you do not get a Cert. Look and find what are your best options.

Today I was looking at university courses on psychology and was not impressed at all.

[TaffyE]

: Specifically where are you located within the UK? Pood ;)

:) Thasorite.
Top right of postings tells where folks are :) I'm ex-pat Welshman living in Oz :D

[Poodle]

I'm sorry. Some people apparently do not wish to write from which country they are. I don't even think Don's does. It looks blank or else I've been working too hard which could be the case too. Sometimes textbooks just ain't fun to write.

[Jack]

Hi, Jack.

I think this is quite correct.

My only question is, after three or four years of in-depth study--not even counting clinical practice and the many tens of thousands of Pounds, Euros, or Dollars spent--will (the study of) psychology change psychologists before any psychologists will change psychology?

It's debatable. Here in the UK there are psychology tutors who are attempting to embrace 'holistic' methodology and there are students who will write a paper within the constraints of accepted wisdom to get the marks, but think in an entirely different way, so there is hope.

In the words of a popular gameshow (:confused: ) 'You have to be in it to win it', and it only needs a few winners to encourage the others.

Jack