visualisation problems

[phillipk]

Hi,

I'm having some trouble trying to visualise myself when in hypnosis. I can't seem to get a static image of myself, instead I sometimes gets small images of myself mixed with other random images like color, patterns and other people. I'm trying to work out if this is normal and how to improve my visualisation technique. I'm also having trouble picturing myself from two views, through my eyes and dissociative. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Kind Regards, Phil

[Poodle]

I would really love to answer your question or give some useful suggestions but I really do not understand what you mean.

Would you please answer some basic questions so that I may be able to assist you?

1. Are you a trained professional? and if so, were you trained in self-hypnosis?

2. What is going on in self-hypnosis that you "think" you need to visualize?

3. Is it some kind of a 'GUARANTEED TO WORK $30 CD"?

What's really going on here? :confused: Pood

[phillipk]

Hey poodle,

1. No I'm not a trained professional. I've read a couple of books on self-hypnosis.

2. Within my self hypnosis session I want to visualise how I currently see myself and then slowly change this image into a more positive picture of myself. This was a confidence script that was written in the book that i'm using.

3. lol no... is that a recommendation :P

The problem I'm having is making a visualisation of myself both in self-hypnosis and with NLP exercises. I can't make a vivid picture of what I look like... Instead my mind pictures lots of different images, patterns and color, perhaps this is normal i'm not sure... But It's definately not a clear resemblence of me. It is especially hard for me to picture myself form the outside looking at myself. Am I doing something wrong or does this take a lot of practice or perhaps this is normal? Sorry if i'm being unclear i'm new to this...

Cheers,

Phil

[Poodle]

Reading a few books on the subject unfortunately does not lead to self-hypnosis. There are a number of well trained certified hypnotists that can't do it at all.

Not everyone visualizes well and some not at all. I always use the words "imagine or visualize" as anyone can do one or the other.

If you do take NLP training you will learn how to visualize well. We're just that way as we like to use ALL of our senses.

Have you ever thought about a trip to a real live certified hypnotist/hypnotherapist to find out exactly what trance feels like at different levels? You also may find that visualizing is really easy when in deep trance. We exist for a reason and we teach for a reason. Really should not cost much money for just a little "demo" should we say. There are also 100's of inductions and it is very necessary to find the one that is just right for you. People that say "trance is learning how to go into trance" are not telling the truth. It's a matter of our skill NOT learning for the "client".

Hope that helps just a little! Pood

[Terry]

Let me try to make this so simple that it is impossible to misunderstand.
You have a goal.....Doesn't matter what that goal is, you want it. What do you suppose the first step is? If you don;t know, how will you achieve any goal? Well, that first step is to plan HOW to achieve your goal, listing all the steps needed to get there..
Oh dear, I said steps didn't I, and you have only taken one step, you read a book, whoops we have a problem. Now let me spell it out for you.
First step, decide what you want, and how much you are willing to spend in time, in money, and in sweat in order to get to your goal.. Second step, begin to gain the knowledge you will need. Third step, once you have obtained the knowledge, practise is required to become capable,this will likely take perhaps six months of daily practise, so be sure the goal is worth the price. If it is, go for it, and best of luck. If not, save until you can afford to hire expert help to guide you, and it will be easier and faster....

[Jack]

A simple way to train your imagination and recall is to look through old photo albums which include you in the pictures.

Take a look at a picture and remember all the feelings and sounds behind the picture, who was there, what happened afterwards etc., then close your eyes and try to recall the same whilst not looking at the picture. And then remember how it was for you when you were there doing whatever you were doing. Practice.

Your brain is quite capable of giving you full dolby technicolour movies, but it needs a little training.

Jack

[phillipk]

Thanks for all the prompt replies and information guys. All you help is much appreciated. I'm really glad I found this forum and look forward to talking and learning more soon.

Regards,

Phil

[Hypnotherapist1]

Yes, you have had some good replies that are helpful. I definitely would suggest going to a professional hypnotherapist to find out exactly what you need and customize a hypnotherapist session for you. Couple of reasons why. 1. There is the controversy of self hypnosis in general - hypnosis by definition is getting the critical faculty to step aside and implement selective thinking - in other words get the conscious mind to step aside or take a break so to speak (the conscious is the very analytical, rational, logical thinker) and speak directly to the subconscious where positive, acceptable suggestions are made for you to accomplish your goal. Now the controversy is when in self hypnosis you can't very well do that if you are talking to yourself and analyzing everything you are thinking about - therefore you are not in hypnosis - some use tapes or CDs to self hypnotise which is suggested. 2. A hypnotherapist will do something called and Intake with you to find out what the overall reward would be to accomplish your specific goal. Positive suggestions will be built from the conversation you have with the hypnotherapist in order for the subconscious to accept and achieve the goal.
Begin with a professional and go from there; on your own with self hypnosis.

[Poodle]

He did mention 'ALSO IN NLP EXERCISES' which does indicate there is a problem with visualizing.

[skip]

Hi Phillip,

Can you tell me what color your car is?

Do you recognize people you know when you see them on the street?

If you can do these things, there is nothing wrong with your ability to visualize.

Generally when people have the difficulty you describe it is because they are soooooooooo fast unconsciously.

Now that is a good thing, until you want to slow down and notice what was formerly an unconscious process, consciously.

Practice doing things, that require you to visualize and hold that visualization.

For example, get out your dishes. You will want salad fork, dinner fork, knife, spoon, plate, and a glass.

Now place them on the table, going from left to right, in this order, salad fork, dinner fork, plate, knife, spoon, and the glass goes above theplate slightly off center to the right.

Now look at the arrangement. Memorize it. Put everything in the plate and close your eyes.

Put everything back in their proper place.

When you get good at that, scramble them again, and this time put them in their proper place for someone sitting on the other side of the plate.

Or you can take some simple mechanical thing apart and reassemble it blindfolded.

This will force you to slow the image down, and let you hold it for extended periods of time.

Once you can do that, you can work on associated, dissassociated, using the same exercise.

Prolly take about 15 min.

skip

[zorinhypnotist]

I agree with Jack. look through some old photos of yourself and try and take a mental photograph of yourself when you look at the photos. I think this is the best method. I know many of my clients use this method and they say it works for them.

[Poodle]

Skip's was the preferred method and takes a whole whoppin' 15 minutes. You are thinking of visualizing as a hypnotist while Skip is an NLP Trainer. We all know NLP is quicker than hypnosis any day of the year. If you saw it, you can visualize it or you can creatively visualize as in "What color is you next car going to be?" Pood :p

[Terry]

Skip's was the preferred method and takes a whole whoppin' 15 minutes. You are thinking of visualizing as a hypnotist while Skip is an NLP Trainer. We all know NLP is quicker than hypnosis any day of the year. If you saw it, you can visualize it or you can creatively visualize as in "What color is you next car going to be?" Pood :p Interesting, not being an NLPer I have no idea were it splits away from hypnosis, so I find it facinating to wonder at the advantages, based on what little I have learned. I know I can induce trance in a matter of seconds without formal induction. Is that NLP or is it just that I am proficient at hypnosis? Certainly I have had clients who were unable to visualize however, and I see no problem with what others have to say about practise. On the other hand, it is a little late in the day when the client is in the chair to suggest practising. I just use a different sense, not problem. I have decided that I am too old to learn something else as an adjuct to my present skills, and honestly see no value since I am happy doing my research within the bounds of hypnosis...:)

[Poodle]

a lot of NLP was taken from Milton Erickson which is one reason we have the Milton Model so you probably know more than you think you do. You just have not studied it formally. NLP does not "induce an official" trance state as it just happens naturally. We do use all 5 senses so if someone is having trouble with one, practice it.

In hypnosis I use the words: "Imagine or visualize" as I know everyone can do one or the other. I don't believe that people can't visualize. They dream at night so they must be able to visualize with their SC mind. Even the old Pood here has dreams and I know he is visualizing as those feet are moving rapidly and there is an occasional very soft "woof". :)

[skip]

Ah those waskally wabbits!

Terry, hopefully in answer to your question...

NLP uses trance. Often profound trance. But it doesnt need it, it just cannot be avoided. :)

And the trances produced arent 'formaly' induced, as a hypnotist normally understands trance induction.

It is more of a "watch for the trance, and utilize it when it presents".

In other words, you might say something, or refer to something, that causes the person to go into a deep trance state, and utilize the state from there, either as is, or deepening.

I dare say that is close to what you do, 'notice the trance, that develops naturally, and go with it'.

As an example, I just sent poodle a pictire of my oldest granddaughter, swinging on a swing under one of the apple trees at the orchard. (if I could figure out how to post a pic here, I would include it so you could have the experience too.)

She is trying to reach a branch with her foot, while swinging.

People look at that photo, and they age regress, and go into a trance, recalling their own experience doing the same thing.

Bam! Got 'em!

Now this is my own theory, I have never been taught this ...

Virtualy everything we do in NLP, that is consciously tracked by the client, produces rather profound trance states. We make little attempt to maintain them, because they are so easy to aquire. So the client is bouncing in and out of trance, rapidly. And I believe we benifit from the fractionation effect, even though it isnt being deliberately produced.

In addition to this we use techniques that communicate directly to the unconscious, bypassing the critical factor, while the client is in both waking and trance states.

Changework can be done completely covertly, in a seemingly innocuous conversation, the client often doesnt realize that the change has occurred, or indeed that they have ever been in trance. And they never
have been in what hypnotists would call a trance.

I would say that they had never been in a trance at all, except that I believe we are never out of trance, we just go from one, to the other, to the next, etc.

cheers,

skip

[Terry]

Thanks Skip, I knew I was using NLP of course, but still have no idea were the two separate, guess I just do it naturally based on hypnosis training and experimenting over the years.

[Poodle]

It's like a beautiful marriage as they go hand in hand so well.


Skip, I think you can insert the picture by clicking on the 4th icon in the bottom row from the end. It looks sorta like a a couple of mountain tops with a stamp in the top right corner (yellow). That'll probably whap Terry and a few others around here right back into "that time". Besides, it would be nice to show just how beautiful and adorable those girls are!! :) me

[Jack]

Skip's was the preferred method and takes a whole whoppin' 15 minutes. You are thinking of visualizing as a hypnotist while Skip is an NLP Trainer. We all know NLP is quicker than hypnosis any day of the year. Pood :p

I use the method outlined with sportspeople and, with respect to both you and Skip, it can take around ten seconds for them to get the idea and utilise it. I would accept that it takes practice to become perfect, but NLP, whilst it may occasionally be instant in effect, often requires the same practice.

And yes, NLP can be quicker than hypnosis, but sometimes hypnosis can be much, much quicker than NLP. Really we are playing with words, since in my book trance is trance is trance. It is what you do with the subconscious whilst you are privileged to be there, that is important.

We are all in the same canoe here, all paddling in the same direction but at different ends.

Jack

[Jack]

Agree entirely.:)

The only addition I would make is that modern hypnotherapy does not
require the formality of induction present in old style hypnotherapy and
practitioners like myself, and no doubt you and Pood, slip pretty seamlessly
between what we term NLP and the methodology we term hypnotherapy.
Terry similarly has probably been using NLP without being aware that is what it was,

Since we are all in a trance anyway, we do what is necessary to achieve
a desired outcome.

Jack

[skip]

Jack,

I dont wish to nit pick, so I wont.

I will however more closely define something for clarity.

Terry isnt 'doing' NLP.

No more than Plato or Socrates, Gerry Spence, or Erickson, 'did' nlp.

Nlp's model of communication can be used to describe, codify, what they are doing that is the excellence that makes the difference. And someone knowelegable in NLP could identify elements like lost performatives, binds, artful vagness, and on and on in what Terry and others do/did.

But that merely makes their excellence available to others, not them 'doing' NLP.

Terry developed his excellence without an awareness of NLP, and to lable it 'NLP', for me, somehow seems to diminish what Terry developed on his own. And I know diminishing it wasnt the intention behind the lable.

If someone knowelegable were to watch me work with a client, at any given moment they might say, "He is 'doing' Bandler, M Erickson, Elman, Kein, B Erickson, Rossi, Silvertorn, Heller, Baffa, Gilligan, Vetter, Wilson, Schilling, Cunningham, Cleveland, or any of a host of others.

Or they might just notice that my unconscious used anchors, and maybe moved some images around, and conclude, "He's doing NLP."

When the truth is I dont know what I am doing ... consciously ... I just know where I want to get to, and am noticing if I am making progress or not. I let my unconscious do the heavy lifting. Consciously I notice if I am getting where I am going, and enjoy the ride, sort of like the captain of the ship. I dont attempt to be the engine, I just steer the boat, and enjoy the scenery.

Bandler once said, "NLP is an attitude that leaves behind a trail of technique."

Under that definition, I suspect Terry IS 'doing' NLP, wouldnt you?

Wink wink,

skip

[Jack]

As I said.;)

And what is 'artful vagness'? Many years ago in
Hong Kong...ah, but that's another story...:D

Jack

[Connie]

When the truth is I dont know what I am doing ...

I'd like to be as unknowing as you. Perhaps someday... :)

[Jack]

I'll bet you are doing it already, Connie. I do a little teaching in
a local hynotherapy school and it always amazes me how quickly
some students get to the unconsciously competent stage.

Not all, some. And they often don't realise that they are doing
anything that they did not do before, even though they have
changed profoundly.

And you know, eventually all that stuff you learned becomes one
and you imagine that you don't know a thing, and in truth, consciously,
you do not.:)

Jack

[skip]

Connie, how do you ride a bicycle, drive a car, or write a letter?

[Connie]

Thanks, Jack! That's a huge compliment, suggesting I might have unconscious competence, and wouldn't it be cool if it were true? :D Skip! I learned how once upon a time and now I just do it! Subconscious automation!

[Jack]

When you can drive a car, ride a bicycle and write a letter
all at the same time without knowing you are doing it then
this is a useful defence for motoring offences.:eek:

Wasn't me officer, I was unconscious at the time.:)

Jack