nested loops

[hawkeye]

Hi everybody!My journey towards NLP continues and i went training my public speaking,so i was watching bandler today,and i heard him talking about nasted loops...
here is a short definition:
Nested loops is where you open (say) three stories, add a positive suggestion, then close each of the stories. The human brain is normally overloaded by holding three 'open' stories that the positive suggestion will tend to 'learned' without conscious intervention. Closing the stories will tend to create an amnesia effect for the suggestion; but it will be remembered unconsciously.
I will be very pleasing if someone could answer to this little question:
what does "closing the stories" means?
I can write down my supposition,to let you help me better http://www.forum.nlpdevelopment.org.uk/yabbse/Smileys/alive/smiley.gif

1)he opens up three stories (he gives a suggestion first)then he cuts down the stories without complete the meanings of these stories(like three films broken in the middle)?=sense become nonsense
(this seems right to me because acting like that the brain is overloaded)

2)he opens up three stories at the same time,and when he closes the stories(completing the logical sense of the stories),the brain has an amnesia for the content,but learn the suggestions....

Anyway,waiting for your answer,bye http://www.forum.nlpdevelopment.org.uk/yabbse/Smileys/alive/grin.gif

[Simon]

Open a story which arouses wanted emotional state (eg excitement, curiosity) then insert suggestions and close a story.

This means that you simply stop narrating a story at the point where the emotional state in the listener is the greatest and continue after inserting suggestions/info.

Erickson used another great way where he achieved similar effect by asking a question and not giving them the time to answer, inserting a suggestion and asking the same question again.

[Poodle]

"I went training public speaking". What does that mean? I have NEVER heard Bandler say 3. It is 5 minimum and he does have a reason for it. In trying to count them, we were up to 347 and he said we missed quite a few. Tad James also says 5 minimum and I bet anything Dr. Matt teaches the same. Nested Loops do NOT contain a direct command. One can chain anchors in Nested Loops. In working with clients one may use Parallel Realities or Blur between Parallel Realities in the Nested Loops and Submodality Shifts.

As for closing, I suggest you get training. It is generally covered to a small extent in your NLP training. There is a lot of information in the back pages of this Forum if you would care to read. It takes lots of reading, work (as in sitting down to your pc and writng out a few hundred metaphors) and then they flow. Our Skip here is quite a master at Nested Loops probably as Docresults is too.

One needs to learn to crawl before one can run. Have fun learning! If you are indeed looking at Public Speaking, may I suggest Bandler's Charisma Enhancement. It will give you ALL of the skills you need, not just ONE. Pood

[Charlie]

Nested Loops are........ awesome. http://forum.hypnosis.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[hawkeye]

"I went training public speaking". What does that mean? If you are indeed looking at Public Speaking, may I suggest Bandler's Charisma Enhancement. It will give you ALL of the skills you need, not just ONE. Pood

First of all,thank you pood!
Charisma enhancement...that's what i saw!:D
A little presupposition:Bandler is a genius of comunication,like picasso is in art,but i think that sometimes what he says can sound a little bit confused...
However he talks about five steps of the loop,and the pattern goes like this:
(0)you make a chain of 5 states(1=current state,2,3,4,5=wanted state)

(HYP) you think about a story for each
state:(STORY1-->STATE1)

1)open story1(you go up to the point where you elicit the state1)
2)shift to story2("state2)
3)open story 3(")
4)open 4
5)tell all of story five
(6)close4
..
(9)close1

I would like to ask you only two question:
a)in the steps(1),......,(5) i take the client from state one to state five,don't I?And then (6),...,(9) have got no sense!because if each story elicit only a state it's a nonsense to me to get the client back to the first state
b)perhaps is (HYP) not right?and the journey through the states(from1 to 5) is linear and progressive and composed by all the nine steps(1 9)
for example in the first two steps1 2 you elicit (state 2) and so on.....you reach the wanted state only at 9.....and this is more logical to me!

Excuse me if i've been too long...waiting for your answer ...by:)

[Docresults]

Hawkeye,

I was once listening to Richard being taped for a set of tapes called "Magical States", (I guess you can get them on CD now also) talk about his wife's family in German I think, and the question came to me when I get home what is defrosted and what is not? As I was thinking about that my cell phone buzzed, I had set it on vibrate and not ring cause Richard would pitch a fit if you disrupt his installations of good feelings and Cooper was on the phone complaining about Skip not taking him for a joy ride in the car so he could stick his head out the window, but don't blow in his face, he says it's just not the same. Now Skip believes that everyone should... feel good or at the very least... feel better now. I knew this cause we had trained with Carmine who lived on the streets for years, died in a swimming pool, was raised from the dead before three days and he only told this story in Atlanta as that is where we both heard it after he started, finished and received his pilots license in only one week. I know this can sound confusing but as we... just relax... things start to.... rearrange.... for you... on their own, without you doing anything consciously. So I told Coop to just... go sit inside... the car and... wait with anticipation and excitement. And Richard said that when he visited his family or was it his wife's family in Germany that butter was as hard as a brick. I'm not sure what Richard was trying to do and yet as always I left excited, determined and ready to take on the world. And I remembered I had planned to eat beef stroganoff for dinner cause it... feel good when you feel satisfied. It's a great state to act from, now.

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

P.S. Richard actually said three presuppositions in a row going in the same direction close together make it extremely hard to counter act. The presuppositions can be anywhere in any of the nested loops or not. The only thing you have to worry about nested loops is birds feeding their young.

[Merlin]

Unless you are speaking to a group, or just want to tell stories, one uses however many it takes... 2, 3, 4, 9...

[KingHenrythe8th]

Hawkeye,

I was once listening to Richard being taped for a set of tapes called "Magical States", (I guess you can get them on CD now also) talk about his wife's family in German I think, and the question came to me when I get home what is defrosted and what is not? As I was thinking about that my cell phone buzzed, I had set it on vibrate and not ring cause Richard would pitch a fit if you disrupt his installations of good feelings and Cooper was on the phone complaining about Skip not taking him for a joy ride in the car so he could stick his head out the window, but don't blow in his face, he says it's just not the same. Now Skip believes that everyone should... feel good or at the very least... feel better now. I knew this cause we had trained with Carmine who lived on the streets for years, died in a swimming pool, was raised from the dead before three days and he only told this story in Atlanta as that is where we both heard it after he started, finished and received his pilots license in only one week. I know this can sound confusing but as we... just relax... things start to.... rearrange.... for you... on their own, without you doing anything consciously. So I told Coop to just... go sit inside... the car and... wait with anticipation and excitement. And Richard said that when he visited his family or was it his wife's family in Germany that butter was as hard as a brick. I'm not sure what Richard was trying to do and yet as always I left excited, determined and ready to take on the world. And I remembered I had planned to eat beef stroganoff for dinner cause it... feel good when you feel satisfied. It's a great state to act from, now.

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

P.S. Richard actually said three presuppositions in a row going in the same direction close together make it extremely hard to counter act. The presuppositions can be anywhere in any of the nested loops or not. The only thing you have to worry about nested loops is birds feeding their young.

Great story Docresults !!

I have never actually consciously used a nested loop though I am conscious of being a sucker for good feelings :) and even more good feelings :) !!

thanks !!

[Poodle]

this is not a teaching forum. What you are talking about is chaining states. Those first five states have to be anchored. You want to learn how, go to a good training.

Oh my. He has changed AGAIN. Only 3? Now it's as many as one can possibly think of. Nice work Houston but it probably was viewed mostly by the visually impaired as of now. He is also really kind as he gives a person 1 minute and 30 seconds to do 5 nested loops with chaining and anchoring states and he gives you the states he wants elicited and it has to be done HIS way with all the other things he does at the same time. That was 2 minutes by my reading. Maybe I just read 30 seconds slower. Suppose? I LOVE you guys from Carmine. In fact, last night I read all of Carmine's "letters". Fascinating work. I had one question which Skip was kind enough to answer. Even though he is retired, I would still LOVE to meet that man (Carmine).

[Docresults]

To make the 1 minute and 30 seconds I could have left out the Carmine bit or just not eaten dinner.

Or use the New Jersey form of therapy

Stop?
Because?
And?
Start!
Now!

[Poodle]

It is amazing how NJ can totally disappear in another form of the work. In all Carmine's letters posted, first names were used or name was left out except in one case where first and last name were used. I really wonder what his purpose was as I don't think Carmine did anything by accident.

[hawkeye]

Thanks doc!!!!