I know I may sound very stupid, but...

[fancycat]

Hello y'all.
I'm a 13-year-old girl and am very interested with hypnosis.
The idea came when my friend Jay and I were sitting in my room and I was showing her my collection of gems and crystals... I showed her one of the laser wand type crystals and pretended to jokingly hypnotize her...then we wanted to hypnotize for real. ^_^; Anywho, I find all these sites about hypnotism and NONE of them say HOW to hypnotize...do you?
I realize I sound very stupid and noob-ish, but I'm very serious about this...please post below and/or email me at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Thanks!

[Unregistered]

Fancycat,

You posted your E-Mail address. Please don't give out any personal information about yourself to people on public boards. Most people are okay, but you want to be safe. Always let your parent(s) know
what you are communicating and with whom.

[skip]

Fancycat,

I took the liberty to remove your email address from your post.

Feel free to ask any questions and seek any advice you like.

There are other areas of this site where you can find induction scripts and such.

Please be advised that it porbably isnt a good idea to give out personal information, like your email/snail mail address or other ways to contact you. And information for you, or discussion with you, can be conducted more safetly thru here. That way others can review the 'advice' you are getting and make their comments on it.

enjoy yourself here,

skip

[fancycat]

Well, thank you all for the WONDERFUL information. Thanks so much paying attention to what I was saying isntead of critisizing and belittling me.

[Merlin]

Hello,

There's a good reason why the web doesn't discuss 'how-to'.
It's like posting how to remove an appendix.
It's just not a good idea.
Messing with someone's mind can potentially be harmful.

Now, I'm not trying to discourage you from learning. I'm only suggesting you take more time to learn about it.
Just like a gun is good for hunting and getting food, even for defense and protection, playing Russian roulette is not advisable.

>I realize I sound very stupid and noob-ish

Not at all :)

[solaris152000]

I was once a 13 year old boy wanting to learn hypnosis, now I am a 14 year old one who once to know more. If you register I will PM you a simple script that will tell you what to say. Alternatively you could visit your local libary.


To hypnotize somebody you just relax them and get them to visuallize relaxing activities, hypnosis.com offer a free course and I found it helpful. I dont know why your emailadress was deleted unless it contained your name. But everyone are only trying to help.


Solaris

[Danny]

"To hypnotize somebody you just relax them and get them to visuallize relaxing activities"

I don't think it's as simple as that. Mastering hypnosis takes lots of study and practice. It took me a long time just to get through the first steps of a basic session.

[Merlin]

Some people are of the opinion relaxation=hypnosis.
Relaxation has nothing to do with hypnosis.

[solaris152000]

No but it isa technique, that was just a breif way... you get them to relax all there muscles and get the consious mind to "step to one side" and then you feed suggestions to the unconsious mind.

[Merlin]

Relaxation therapy kinda works, but it isn't hypnosis.

[skip]

Merlin,

I think I understand what you mean when you say 'relaxation therapy', but I am not sure that others do.

And I suspect that by 'relaxation tharapy' you dont mean hypnosis derived from a relaxation induction method, or do you?

Would you mind for the sake of clarity, making more clear the distinction you have in mind when you say 'relaxation tharapy' and hypnosis?

thanks,

skip

[Merlin]

Hi Skip, others,

I'll try to clarify.

As a person becomes more relaxed, they will normally become more suggestible as their mind just relaxes and becomes less and less resistant to suggestion.

Many a fine practitioner has mistaken this for hypnosis and some famous people have even written books on this subject believing it is hypnosis.
Students become the teachers and the myth is perpetuated. Just as the myth that a person cannot be "made" to do anything under hypnosis that they would not otherwise do.
Teacher believes this because they were taught this.
Teacher congruently teaches pupil, who becomes the teacher, and so on. The belief becomes very ingrained.

Many a hypnotist today actually does 'relaxo-therapy' believing they are doing hypnosis and never realising the true power of hypnosis.

Many call themselves *Ericksonian hypnotists* because they utilise what they get. *But* Dr. Erickson had incredible sensory acuity. He did not relax a client and call it hypnosis, he calibrated to the person, and as he observed them going into deeper hypnosis, he would encourage/amplify their state.

Relaxation has been perpetuated *as* hypnosis to the point that university researchers have proven relaxation=hypnosis by tracking brainwave patterns.

In reality, a person who is truly hypnotised can create *any* brainwave patterns at will.

Further, any hypnotist who has worked with burn victims knows you'll never get them to relax. If you want to help them, or any other pain sufferer of this type, you'd better know something of hypnosis because relaxation therapy won't cut it.

Achieving actual 'hypnosis' you'll find about a 100 fold increae in suggestibility over relaxation, even though relaxed people are indeed more open to suggestion.

[solaris152000]

Well all the books I have read say otherwise, at the momen I think you are the one who doesn't know what hypnosis is.

[skip]

Merlin,

Erickson learned to detect people's patterns, and to interrupt them, and install new ones. This is done on a less than conscious level, and is very effective in behavior change. And yes Erickson was very skilled in acuity, but it is duplicatable, and has been codified, and duplicated many many times. It may or may not fit with your particular definition of hypnosis, but it does get results.

AND perhaps most importantly relaxation isnt necessary, to do what Erickson did, whether you are talking about burns, or other forms of pain, if my experience is of any value. If you read anything about Erickson, you will rarely find any reference to him ever asking someone to relax. He tended to utilize what the client was presenting, in the moment, not what would be considered, by most, 'formal' hypnosis.

Thanks for the clarification. I now understand that my interpretation of 'relaxo therapy' wasnt what you were intending. So if I understand "better" now, it would be that the majority of hypnotists do not reognize "real" hypnosis, because they have never seen it. And that even tho they do relax people into a suggestable state, and get some results, this isnt "real" hypnosis. Would that be a more accurate understanding?

If that is indeed the case, Merlin; where might one learn 'true' hypnosis? Is it something that you learned from someone else, or did you 'discover' it by doing? Is Gerry Kein's metaphor "hypnosleep", as I suspect, more along the lines of what you are talking about?

The reason I'm asking is, that if, as you describe, the "myth" has been passed down thru generations of hypnotists, then it is likely to continue, unless something is done to "wake them up". What is, or do you think should, be done, if anything?

I am not sure I agree with you, in fact I am fairly sure that I do not agree. BUT that only indicates that we arent saying the same thing when we say "hypnosis". I believe it is all hypnosis, and further my experience is that all hypnotic phenomena is producable at all "depths". BUT that may just mean, that there is 'hypnotic phenomena' that I have yet to see. I think we could agree, "We all, do it all, to ourselves, all the time, "naturally"."

"Intervention", or as I prefer, 'deliberate participation', in the "doing" by another person, sometimes requires some training, and jumping thru some metaphorical hoops, but it isnt something that isnt done more or less accidentally all the time.

cheers and thanks for the clarification,

skip

[skip]

Solaris,

Be careful here.

Merlin makes the case, if I understand her correctly, that 'all' the books are incorrect. If that is true then, the 'evidence' reprodued in "all the books", is fruit of the tainted vine, n'cest pas?

Now while, I dont think I agree with her, yet; I do think it is worthwhile to ask myself, "Why would an intelligent, very knoweledgable, effective, hypnotist, make such a statement? Is it possible that she knows something, I might want to know?"

When you 'hear' people you have little, or no respect for, say something that is outside your belief system, then you tend to scoff, and wonder what recreational chemicals they are on that day.

But when people you do respect, say something outside your map, is it useful to have the same response?

skip

[Jack]

I seem to have heard Merlin's argument before, but to be fair, to me, hypnosis is not a question of relaxation or any other proscribed routine. Sometimes relaxing the client is the way to go, other times it is not.

Most of us will have had experiences of clients who go into a trance state as soon as you say 'hello', others may take longer to become uncritical.It doesn't matter how you get there, only that you do. I know many therapists who do marvellous work using long fractional inductions and lots of instructions to relax and others who use instant inductions, or no apparent induction at all and get similar results. Firmly embedded convictions are not, for me, the way to do therapy, although I do disagree profoundly with the contention that people can be hypnotised against their will. It all depends what you mean by 'will'.

The original poster is just curious, that's all and as has been said, information and books are available ad nauseam on the subject. If she wants to learn she will - it's not a secret - but how to use that knowledge effectively...that's a different story.

Jack

[Merlin]

Hi Skip,

>it would be that the majority of hypnotists do not reognize "real" hypnosis, because they have never seen it...

What i'm saying (trying to anyway) is not that they nerver see hypnosis, but rather they may stumble into it and don't recognise it when they see it.
I would use a recent post from Don as an example where he was saying he saw demonstrations of hypnosis in a 'light' state where 'deep' hypnosis effects were achieved.
The demonstration was actually of somnambulistic effects, but were not recognised as such.

>And that even tho they do relax people into a suggestable state, and get some results, this isnt "real" hypnosis.

Relaxation alone isn't hypnosis nor is it necessary.
*sometimes* they do achieve hypnosis.
But they don't know it, or recognise it.
This makes the work much more difficult for them and it needn't be so.
For many hypnotists this makes their work rather difficult and helping people difficult where it should be quite easy.

Jerry Kein is more of a parrot of Mr. Elman's Hypnotherapy.
Hypnosleep is something totally different and not related to hypnosis per se.
For hypnosleep information i'd refer you to Elman's book.

>then it is likely to continue, unless something is done to "wake them up".

That's why I share the information so often here.

>I am fairly sure that I do not agree...

if we all agreed on everything it'd be a rather dull world.

>I believe it is all hypnosis...

We often speak in *similar* terms (I think)

I believe it is all air, and we all breathe air.
I'm just saying there is something else in the air, oxygen.
All air is not oxygen. Knowing this, it is possible to use oxygen when there is a need, and that the oxygen is far more effective than air, especially when the air you use may be lacking in oxygen.

>and further my experience is that all hypnotic phenomena is producable at all "depths"...

My understanding of your postings is that you do achieve hypnosis, and indeed somnambulism in most of your work (at least what you've posted of). But I haven't seen where you recognise this.

>"We all, do it all, to ourselves, all the time, "naturally"."

But I think when it is recognised, it becomes easier to utilise. We certainly do not need to relax to do this.
And I've never seen a post where you thought you needed a certain level of relaxation to do your work.

Relaxation is nice. Patients like it. But it's got nothing to do with hypnosis.

>it isnt something that isnt done more or less accidentally all the time...

Yes, accidently. *And without relaxation*!
But when we recognise it, we can do it deliberately and easily.

[Don]

It seems to me that this all comes down to the definition of hypnosis. Different people have different definitions. In fact, if you put 10 experienced hypnotherapists in a room I think you might have 10 different definitions (although they may overlap).

In my studies of Mesmer, he did NOT specifically use hypnosis, although people may have achieved a state of hypnosis as a result of his techniques. Rather, he used a form of what we would today call "energy healing" combined with "suggestive therapeutics." He believed that there could be no "cure" without a "crisis" (what we would today call an abreaction). I don't know of many hypnotherapists who depend upon abreactions for success.

And yet it is undeniable that he got results (no wonder some of the doctors of his era wanted to see him destroyed). It seems to me that Mesmerism is simply another system with similarities to hypnotherapy which got results.

Likewise, the different styles of hypnotherapy are simply that: differing methods and paradigms with some overlap that achieve results.

With respect to all, I don't think denouncing what others are doing as not being true hypnotherapy is very valuable. I would contend that there is only one thing that matters: did it benefit the client? Perhaps rather than looking at what others do and saying what they do isn't hypnotherapy it would benefit us to learn their techniques and use what works best for each client.

[TeeJay]

Glad this matter came up, because we all do indeed have differing ideas regarding the word "hypnosis" as well as undstanding what it means. Since the word itself is a misnomer, we might well be led to the idea that sleep, and its accompanying friend "relaxation" are involved. Why not, hypnos means sleep, and in sleep we do indeed relax, so practitioners tend in our society at least, to relax the client, and use it as part of the treatment they offer. Note however that I did use the word PART in that sentence, so I do agree with Merlin to that extent. On the other hand, it is my contention, and I am stuck with it, that hypnosis is not a state, it is a skill, the skill being in the methods we use to assist the client to change....
Merlin for isntance, will often tell posters, that hypnosis is not something that can be taught online. Indeed I agree, it is a skill that must be applied under such differing circumstances, that personality enters into the equasion, as well as knowledge of many different displines. How for instance can I work with someone who has asthma, if I haven't done any study on what it is, and how it affects the client? How can I intervene in enuresis unless I understand the likely causes?
On the other hand, I side with Skip in that we all experience differently, and are led therefor to differing ideas about what gives us success....I have not for years bothered about the depth of trance of a client, I take charge with their permission, and the very idea that depth can interfer with success is not acceptable in my world. My success rate was so high, I believe I proved the point by that alone.
Again, Don brings up the point that if we bicker with each other about what hypnosis REALLY is, we demean our skills and reduce ourselves to a state of uncertainty as to if we truly are using that skill we call HYPNOSIS.....Surely it is all based on the success we achieve is it not? Terry
Oh yes, I am glad the the best of us did achieve better success that I am having getting back on this board. I have been told I have been successfully registered, but damn it, I still can't get on using "Terry" so I seem to be stuck with TeeJay, just so long as nobody thinks I am trying to put one across, and not accept my own postings as valid, or acceptable under my own name (EG) T.

[Merlin]

Hello,

I think there is a valid reason to discuss what hypnosis is. If we do not, how can we learn
something new? Denial of the possibility is no means for progress

Consider:
***********************************
What if *hypnosis was merely having the mouth open.
It’d be very subtle and likely overlooked.
Some would say ‘people go into hypnosis all the time’
and that would be true, wouldn’t it?

And relaxo-therapists...
As a person becomes more relaxed, most times their jaw relaxes and there mouth opens.
Relaxation brought about hypnosis.
Yet, it wasn’t the relaxation and some people will relax and their mouth will be closed.
Resistant? No
Just hypnotists not noticing.

Mesmer achieved the mouth opening, but never recognised it.

Stage hypnotists noticed that a sudden startle achieves hypnosis, but never noticed the hypnosis
is actually the mouth opening.

University researchers hook people up and monitor brainwaves.
As they find a brainwave pattern associated with the relaxation.
Almost always, the mouth drops open, hypnosis occurs, and it is scientific and repeatable.

NeLPers don’t use formal hypnotic inductions, yet they happen most often to get the client’s
mouth open and thus achieve hypnosis.

Merlin comes along now and suggests hypnosis isn’t the relaxation.
Relaxation is not needed for hypnosis.

The relaxo-therapists continue to insist that the 20-30 minute of relaxation is a must.
Merlin says” just ask them to breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth and you can
have the hypnosis you seek. Then, if you are so inclined, suggest relaxation ‘til the cows come
home. But at least understand what hypnosis is.

Others still insist it doesn’t matter what hypnosis is.

I suggest it does matter.
It makes the work so much easier.
********************************
No, I’m not saying mouth opening=hypnosis.
I’m saying hypnosis is just that easy and that noticeable once you can recognise it.
Just as eye-accessing cues are obvious/noticeable, yet for decades no one noticed.

Merlin says: just ask them to breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth and you have
the hypnosis you seek. It’s that simple.

I’m saying that relaxation isn’t hypnosis, even though it might achieve hypnosis.
I’m saying knowing and recognising hypnosis opens up a new world in your therapy.

[Jack]

Hello,

Whilst it is useful to discuss what we believe hypnosis is I don't think there will ever be agreement. I have no idea what 'real' hypnosis is and to be honest couldn't care less. The important thing is that it works. Merlin has a take on what she believes hypnosis is and Skip has another. Their beliefs enable them to get results and that's good.

Merlin has a good point when she says that some hypnos fail to recognise a trance state. When I first started I would use every deepener and test I could find just to convince myself that the client was really in trance. But it was more about my convictions than those of the client.

In my own experience a light trance state is quite sufficient to achieve most therapeutic goals.In fact is is useful if the client does not go too deep because I do not find that anything useful can be achieved if the client is asleep. Like several other practitioners here I also practice NLP and find that clients will go into a trance state without formal induction and be able to deal with their problems effectively. This demands no relaxation, no special techniques, no scripts, no startle inductions, in fact nothing else except the ability of the client to allow themselves to be led inwards away from critical conscious analysis. This is the core of what Erickson did ands it's good enough for me.

The rest of it is, in my belief system, hot air.

Jack

[Merlin]

Thank you Jack for helping to prove my points :)

>In my own experience a light trance state is quite sufficient to achieve most therapeutic goal...

If you don't recognise what I'm saying is hypnosis, and you are indeed getting results, then it is likely not as light as you think.

>I do not find that anything useful can be achieved if the client is asleep...

That's *never* an issue with hypnosis since hypnosis has nothing to do with sleep or relaxation.

And if you've been following the thread, the premise is that relaxation is not hypnosis.
You more or less support what i've been saying with your comments of NLP and what Erickson did.

[Jack]

Hello Merlin,

I think you are getting confused about a word and that confusion leads you into error about a concept. It is my contention that 'hypnosis' means different things to different people but that it is intrinsically the same thing. For some, relaxation is the way to go. It follows that deep relaxation sometimes leads to sleep which IMO has no therapeutic value for hypnotherapists. For others, it is the direction of attention inwards by a variety of methods which have been discussed.

Now, one could say that relaxation methods do direct attention inwards simply because the therapist is enabling the client to focus on muscle groups or the condition of various limbs. This is quite unusual for some people who may never have stopped to concentrate on limbs or muscles in that way and can lead to internalisation followed by trance. Actual relaxation in a 'floppy body' sense may not occur, but the client will nevertheless develop a trance state, and that trance state is the same state as can be achieved by any other method, albeit longer in time.

Of course, all opinion on this matter, mine, yours, is all highly subjective, but to remove relaxation methods from the toolbox for no good reason seems to me to be rash and not helpful.

You will know that in quantum physics nothing is really 'real'. That everything is shockingly transitory and subject to as yet undiscovered laws which may in themselves only be 'real' at the moment of perception. Hypnosis is like that, because, like you an I, it belongs to our particular quantum universe.

So, taking that into account I don't disagree with anything you have said, but also I do.:)

Jack

[Merlin]

Hello Jack,

I'm not saying to throw out any tool.
I'm not saying one should never go East to get West.
I'm simply pointing out that the Americas are not India!

I'm not now, nor have I ever said that relaxation is wrong. I'm only saying relaxation in and of itself isn't hypnosis.
You can get incredibly deep relaxation and still not have hypnosis.
You can get hypnosis without any relaxation.
That's all I've been saying.

It's OK with me if one believes wearing owl dung blessed by the shaman is usable. It works! But is not in and of itself hypnosis.

[PaNzEr]

i totally believe what merlin is saying, because merlin just knows what shes saying man. she knows more about hypnosis than most of us, she knows REAL hypnosis. thats why i like reading what she has to say all the time. ... if i can give anyone any advice, listen to what merlin has to say. also, she's nice about answering, she does what she can to help.

[TaffyE]

I may be a bit thick, but I still don't know what is Merlin's definition of hypnosis.

Could you clarify for me please Merlin

Ta

[Merlin]

Have you read my FAQ?

[TaffyE]

Have you read my FAQ?
Now I have. :)

[Merlin]

Now Taffy, we have a starting point.
Any questions?
Maybe start a new thread with any questions?

[TaffyE]

Hi Merlin,

No questions, it was just that you have often said that various things are not hypnosis and I wondered what your definition is.

Sorry for the delay, I've been offline for a couple of days

[Brian Carr]

I understand your point, Merlin, and I completely agree. Personal experience provides me with particular insight about your comments.

Many years ago I knew a man of prodigious talent who worked at my school. He had a knack for inducing hypnosis; indeed, so effective was he that he could almost instantly entrance any individual he encountered. Yet his only tools consisted of his eyes, his voice, and regular, simple conversation. Using his gleaming eyes as beacons he'd continue to chat, carefully modulating his voice and modifying his manner in time with the subject's response. It didn't matter if they stood, sat, or laid prone--inexorably, inevitably, they'd be his. After terminating the "session," very few suspected anything unusual had occured. Fewer still were able to recall any of the events during the trance.

Never once did I ever hear the words "relax," "sleep," "drowsy," or "heavy" emanate from his lips; most simply never knew what hit them.

Brian

[Zanther]

Hi there.

I'm glad you took the time to find out more about hypnosis. It can be really really cool and really really useful to help others. Sometimes it can offer solutions that they haven't been able to find anywhere else. It can also be a lot of fun with what's called "stage hypnosis."

Here's how I got started:
Went to the library. They only had three books, but two of them were The Art of Hypnotherapy by Roy C. Hunter and Hypnotherapy by Calvin Banyan and Gerald Kein. The third was Hypnosis for Dummies which seemed too all over the place, so I only read interesting bits and pieces.

By luck, those first two books I read were by really good authors and gave a real good foundation. It really tells you the basics of theory and practice.

Then I suggest you go online, find some scripts, practice with your willing friends. After you've been doing it for awhile, reread the books and they'll have so much more meaning and insight for you b/c you'll be able to relate and think about how to apply the techniques.

If you have any questions send me one of those private messages through the website or post again (though it's kinda hard to get a direct response when posting around here).

When you get older you could attend various training seminars people hold around the nation. When you're old enough to drive yourself around you might consider looking for a Sleepwalkers chapter. They're a group who practices hypnosis with each other.

Hope this helps some.


Hello y'all.
I'm a 13-year-old girl and am very interested with hypnosis.
The idea came when my friend Jay and I were sitting in my room and I was showing her my collection of gems and crystals... I showed her one of the laser wand type crystals and pretended to jokingly hypnotize her...then we wanted to hypnotize for real. ^_^; Anywho, I find all these sites about hypnotism and NONE of them say HOW to hypnotize...do you?
I realize I sound very stupid and noob-ish, but I'm very serious about this...please post below and/or email me at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Thanks!

[Unregistered]

hi
i have a project about hypnotherapy and i would really like to know how it works . yeah, and i would like you to help me know more about my project and on how it is done.

[Unregistered]

One of my favorite definitions of hypnosis from an Erikson book that I have is:

"Hypnosis is like electricity we know what to do with it but we don't know what it is"

[Unregistered]

hypnosis.com offer a free course and I found it helpful.


I was just wondering if you could post a link because i cant find it. thanks!