Ross Jefferies Speed Seduction

[ajmjkd]

HELLO,
Just reading thru a speed seduction e-book. now although the concepts that he is applying can be useful for general conversation, the scripts he gives as examples i feel are well intense. I mean some of them id imagine would scare off a lady for being too deep especially as i would of just met her 5 inutes ago. Does anybody else from the uk feel this way as well. i say uk cause im in tthe uk.

also if you had the choice would you take a nlp practioner course or a hypnotheraphy course, im in two minds which one to take although some offer both cert on same course

cheers anyway:)

[Don]

If it really worked as well as he claimed, don't you think he could be charging tens of thousands of dollars instead of peddling ebooks?

[skip]

There is one incontravertable rule in hypnosis, and or NLP.

If a communication isnt understood to be in the persons best interest, they will dismiss it.

Thats why we dont tell our clients, "Would you like to pay your bill now or next week." Because if we did, they would pay us now, and find another hypnotist next week.

Speed Seduction is predicated on the assumption that you can get a woman via, covert hypnotic/nlp suggestions to do something she wouldnt ordinarily do.

Thats a load of crap.

The idea that you can say to a woman, "Ha-penis" while simultaneously pointing to your your groin, and the woman will fall to her knees, your presumed desired outcome, will work on some small percentage of women. The rest will either laugh at you, or call the cops.

That said.

Speed seduction can be benificial. To the extent that you build confidence to approach women. To the extent that you learn to be paying attention to her and what she is saying and how she is responding to you , instead of staying "inside" worrying about what you will say next. To the extent that it encourages you to learn what makes others feel good, and pleasurable, and apply that learning, Speed Seduction is very worth while.

It does however teach a world view of women that is as distorted as the world view of men that strippers take on; and as such isnt conducive to lasting quality relationships.

skip

[Tomo]

HELLO,
Just reading thru a speed seduction e-book. now although the concepts that he is applying can be useful for general conversation, the scripts he gives as examples i feel are well intense. I mean some of them id imagine would scare off a lady for being too deep especially as i would of just met her 5 inutes ago. Does anybody else from the uk feel this way as well. i say uk cause im in tthe uk.
Just build rapport. Everything else follows, even for complete hounds.

How do you build rapport? Work that out and you can delete your e-book and have a life, but start be being smartly presented, interested and easy-going.

[Terry]

I do indeed remember being shy around girls, even when I was in the navy. Difference was, I wanted a girl I could respect, and trust, while my friends wanted one they could seduce. They got what they wanted, and found that they didn't want it when it was too late. I on the other hand, got what I wanted, and was very satisfied.
Seduction is as natural as breathing, so who needs an ebook to learn it? What you may need, is the right attitude to attract the right type of girl, one whom you can trust for the long haul. Now that is worth working hard for, but actually it requires very little, just attitude, and self respect...
After fourty six years of marriage, my redhead still loves me, still thinks I'm Mr wonderfull, and is still jealous for no good reason. I would never feel the need to pass up on steak, in order to shop around for hamburger.......Terry

[Merlin]

Mind control is a dream. Hypnosis and NLP are not mind control.
Not with women, not with patients.
You do stand a chance using the Ross methods in a bar with a lonely, desparate girl.
But a smile works well too ;-)

[arnk2u]

Isn't success in speed seduction called "date rape" or something close to it ?

[Unregistered]

well.... if you can model the behavior of a succesful theripist, and expect the same outcome . i suppose you can model somone who is succesful seducing women and do the same. i think it would be more fun to model somone you know who is good w/ women . i dont know who wrote this e-book or who he modeled for his purposes. if anything pay closer attention to the responses
people offer you and keep doing what works

[ensentium]

If it really worked as well as he claimed, don't you think he could be charging tens of thousands of dollars instead of peddling ebooks?Um, he charges thousands of dollars for his seminars all around the world and constantly has a full audience. Mark Cunningham, one of the best hypnotists in the world, even helps out at the seminars adding his hypnotic flare which I don't really agree with because of the audience that would attend the seminars. Still, it's powerful stuff.

Back in the day (like those ebooks people find on the net which are like 5-10 years old), Ross' SS material used to be about just throwing out constant patterns until one of them worked for someone but because of Mark's influence it's more about self improvement and becoming more attractive yourself while including the use of NLP language patterns and light trances.

Personally, I don't think he should be giving these kinds of tools out to just anyone who pays money to go to a seminar. Even though he purposefully leaves out certain things you need to know to really become powerful with it.

[Don]

You can get his course, from him, for a few hundred dollars. His seminar is just under $1,000. If it worked, he could sell it for $10,000 easy and work a lot less.

[ensentium]

You can get his course, from him, for a few hundred dollars. His seminar is just under $1,000. If it worked, he could sell it for $10,000 easy and work a lot less.You realize he offers a lot more than the 10 year old basic home study course, right? That's not what he's about anymore. Like I said, he and Mark Cunningham have really stepped it up in terms of the material they're offering. He's also had videos where they secretely videotape him in public teaching people how to do what he's into now with great success. (there was a BBC interview with an example of it, and the interview was even going for an anti-hypnosis/nlp viewpoint) I think he's even releasing an entire video series based on that concept. (hidden video seduction, whatever you wanna call it)

Not to mention his $2500 seminars in cancun and various other places. There's entire mailing lists and forums dedicated to a lot of his material and it's success! I don't even like the guy and I can tell you that people have great success with it. Why would you argue against the power of hypnosis and nlp on a forum dedicated to it?

[TeeJay]

"Why argue the power of hynposis or NLP on a board dedicated to it?"
Nobody is arguing except the neophytes, what the rest of us are saying, is that the power of our skills are best released when we are in partnership with a client, and helping them achieve that which they desire. Using our skills to circumvent the wishes of others, may be something some of us are capable of, but those who can are mainly more ethical than to use the power for such purposes. As for those who do, we are unlikely to assist them to spread garbage we don't agree with, so don't ask

[ensentium]

And I agree completely, I don't think those kinds of skills should be taught in that context. I was hesitant in defending Ross' material because even though people get major results, I was torn on whether or not I wanted to endorse it by defending it. I guess I understand WHY someone would argue against it even though they know the truth just for the sole purpose of keeping it hush hush and moving on to better things, I just think that's the wrong way to deal with an issue of that nature.

Anyways, we're not even really arguining 'cause I agree that it's a stupid program so I won't take it any further.

[kosmic]

ahaha that was funny

[Merlin]

ensentium,

The point is that what Ross teaches is not worth the money.
Not for seduction, not for NLP.

His offering is pale compared to the power of what NLP can do once you really know NLP.

Ross does demonstrate he is good at selling.
So was PT Barnum. and Barnum never needed the SS gimmick.

No one is really arguing the potential for SS, just that what Ross markets and what he teaches isn't very useful (at SS), or worth the money compared to better NLP courses.

When a woman wants a man, SS isn't needed.
When she doesn't, no amout of what Ross teaches will change her mind.

[Zanther]

You can get his course, from him, for a few hundred dollars. His seminar is just under $1,000. If it worked, he could sell it for $10,000 easy and work a lot less.
That's a ridiculous statement. $10,000 easy? Unless he could guarantee you getting laid 100% of the time you tried, very few people would pay ten grand for a seminar.

Not getting into the actual arguement, but gotta call you out on this

[skip]

Zanther,

It could be, and is sold for far more than $10,000. Not by Ross, but by others.

Please understand the thing being sold is an intangable. It is worth what the buyer considers it worth, and I have known SSers who have spent far more, in search of what they wanted, after learning what Ross had ot offer.

Some of them even got their moneys worth.

Give some thought, to what is really being bought and sold, in this particular scenerio. It isnt on the surface.

skip

[Don]

That's a ridiculous statement. $10,000 easy? Unless he could guarantee you getting laid 100% of the time you tried, very few people would pay ten grand for a seminar.

Not getting into the actual arguement, but gotta call you out on this

That, Zanther, is my point. If it worked as claimed, you could easily charge any amount of money for it.

[John Warner]

forgive my spelling, as always...

everything said about ross and his teachings in this thred is obscenely incorrect.

i'm always the guy that defends him when a thred is started.

why?

because i've gone through a LOT of his material, i have used some of what i've learned IN THE CONTEXT of trust, respect and with OPENESS (i've told girls this is what i study, this is what im going to do, and have introduced it as beign NOT my material and just spouted bull**** and it still has an amazing effect) and last but not least, i'm the type of person who would never want to manipulate another human being, especialy into something that would make them unhappy.

i had a friend that seduced someone's fiance and claimed to be her friend. that's totaly against my morals-- i'm not longer friends with him.

what you people dont understand is the full spectrum of what ross teaches. spead seduction isn't a bunch of canned patterns and **** that you spout of and people fall magicaly under your powers. that is a part of it, but the majority of ross' time is spent working with his students to fix fears, correct energy, change their belifs about women (for the better, with more respect) and help people generaly understand women's behavior in general. keep in mind ross modeled this stuff origionaly after people who were good with women naturaly, not people who spouted off memorized patterns. with his teachings comes a way of life that is alot more attractive to the oposite sex. you could throw away anything that you thought was even a LITTLE BIT manipulative and you'd still be 10X better with women (for most guys anyway)


not all of what ross teaches is manipulation. as his material progresses, it gets farther and farther away from that aspect completely. everything he teaches is in the context of respect, and in his more recent years he is a much more spiritual, calm, and compationate person.

as far as how much he charges, quite frankly i don't really see it in ross' personality to cator to the rich alone. obviously i dont know him personaly, but everything he says, and the way he acts, and what he does, and the reviews i've heard from people who've attended, speak towards the idea that he's a kind person.

yes there are some things that he teaches that i don't agree with nessisarily. but writing off his entire product line with a statement like

"Isn't success in speed seduction called "date rape" or something close to it ?"

is, pardon my languge, and im sory for being unkind, but lets call a spade a spade,

****ing stupid.

if you think ross' material is manipulation or mind control, then not only have you NOT spent ANY time with his products, but you also have a twisted view of the whole area regaurding seduction.

which brings me back on topic.

ajmjkd- although it saddens me that your exposure to the material is limited to the manual, which i'll admit is just a focus on patterns and what others would call manipulation, i've got to tell you that EVERYONE things that the patters are obscene. the first time i used one i was SURE it woudln't work.

ross, and any other nlp will tell you not to test what works or not in your own head. go into the real world and learn from experience.

do i really need to tell a forum full of nlps (99% of whom are far more advanced that i am) that the map is not the territory?

(oh and thats another thing that you wont get from ross' seminars. he speaks like a human being and doesn't bog you down with jargon)


anyway i hope this thred isn't too harsh. it upsets me when someone's learning is hindered because people have false ideas based on little experience of what they're judging..

btw- i have no emotional attachment to ross or his work. if any of you can prove me wrong that i will appoogize in a humble fashion.

[Terry (existing)]

John, I doubt that any of the really good practitioners, who know what they are talking about, have any interest is "proving you wrong" as you suggest. We accept your right to an opinion which differs from ours, but must be sure that it is not just a different way of saying the same thing....
SPEED Seduction, by it's very name suggests something not quite proper in the proceedure.....Even a women who desires to be seduced, likes it to take some time so that she doesn't feel like a tramp, trollop, or tart...........A man may feel that the speed with which he achieves HIS goal is important, in that it makes him better than someone who succeeds, but more slowly.....Garbage, you know that is not the sort of thing anyone would do who has respect for the woman, and that anyone who seduces without respect, is no more than an animal, or do you disagree with that? Terry

[John Warner]

I agree that trying to seduce a woman with no concern about where she's at in life would be cruel, yes. but making the jump from that person to

once again, it would seem to me that you're speaking from a point of having not heard his material.

the "seduction" is designed to make her feal comfortable. thats the whole POINT. it's to make it so that you can experience something together outside of the concept of a slut, trollop or tart. you're right, usualy a woman needs to feal like she's going slowly, but what causes her to feal like she's giong slowly enough is something completely different.

i'm interested in nlp mainly to help others, and for personal development. i would feal terrible if i convinced someone to do something that they'd later regret.

i'd also like to add that speed seduction isn't really about "speed".. ross doesn't sit down and work out formulas to shave off minutes. it's just a model of what works. thats it. there's hardly even much objectification of women.

one last thing. i don't expect anyone to really want to prove me wrong, but i figgured if everyone is interested enough to bash ross and his material but not listen to it, my post might have got some people upset. either way, what ever. don't judge a book by it's cover.

[gravity]

Personally I've used the Double your Dating technique which will have women eating out of the palm of your hand ( and other places ). Forget speed seduction and all those pre-made ingenuine paterns. Although I've noticed that his more recent work is focusing more on making a mans personallity more attractive. Thats exactly what DyD teaches and, holy jesus, has it changed my life. Now I don't need to worry about women and can focus more on self-help and spirituality (yay!).

If any of you want the address its doubleyourdating.com - it works wonders

[John Warner]

forget speed seduction eh?


well i'm certainly not going to bash dyd, i dont know anything about it.

this is what bothers me about this thred. i don't understand why people are intent on judging something before they try it, just because it may or may not fit into their map of the world (god i hate using nlp jargon)

there may come a day in the future where i find out that the cons outweigh the pros, and will decide that s.s is garbage. i certainly dont have TOO much experience with it now. the thing is, i'll wait untill i do to make that judgement..

[Oddeye]

Ahh yes. I've scowled the net looking for a great dating advice column and I think that DyD is one of the bigger webpages. I use it and it works unbelievably good. There is no memorizing patterns and such, it's very very easy to follow & easy to embed into your mind. A++ On my scale :rolleyes: