does anyone know anything about Martyn Carruthers...at soulworks?

[jaynebeal]

am looking for a deprogrammer for lots of negative stuff put in under pain......checked out a guy today who knows a little about satanic abuse and was left with either...the suggestions will wear off in 6 months...triggers can be years old.....isolation and victimisation are the keys to this stuff and I can't risk the effects of regressing coz you'd have to relive the fear and pain of insertion.......personally I thought that that was the whole point but there you go.....I saw an add for Martyn Carruthers at soulwork...balah blah blah who specializes in undoing bad entanglement bonds applied to a bad programmer and military style psycho warfare techniques...does anyone know if he's any good? I live in Britain and obviously must pay for my treatment and as he's coming form california I would like some idea of his reputation before we start. He says he can do it.........does anyone know of him and his practise?

bealie

[Don]

It is not the purpose of this forum to rate practitioners. Any comments made are the opinion of the individual poster and may not represent the owners of this forum. This is clearly stated in the post, "what we can and cannot do," a post that anyone should read before posting in our forums.

Mr. Carruthers appears to do a form of NLP. However, from your posts, it seems that you may have a case of indoctrinated FMS, and the development of that type of belief system often results in a strong desire to maintain the status quo and not change. Both NLP and hypnotherapy follow the paradigm that people wish to change but do not know how. Right now, because of the secondary gains you are expressing, although you consciously wish to change, there are predetermined concepts that you sound as if you do not wish to dismiss. As a result, work with you may be time consuming for any sort of changework.

If you really want to change, you will need to focus on your symptoms rather than your FMS-created and deeply believed causes. You're like a patient coming to a doctor saying, "My right arm hurts. Please set it and put it in a cast." The doctor tells you the arm isn't broken, but being treated for a broken arm is the only care you will accept.

In other words, changing right now is quite up to you. Your posts, which sound typical of many people suffering from FMS, indicate that you may not be willing to let go of your current beliefs as such beliefs may be more important to you than feeling better. If you are unwilling to change your beliefs, any changework specialist who uses NLP or hypnotherapy will have difficulty working with you. instead, you may have to spend years in psychotherapy.

Good luck on whatever path you choose.

[jaynebeal]

Thanks for your reply. I was dismayed but not surprised by your opinion. I have not suffered from satanic ritual abuse but the methods used were similar, hence my talking to a particular therapist. I do not suffer from false memory syndrome in as much as how i was treated at all but am finding it very difficult to get treatment in this country as most hypnotherapists don't have any experience of pain/drug hypnosis. I cannot dismiss something that was actually done and though I don't doubt your expertise I find it hard to believe that you can so easily dismiss a valid set of experiences simply because you may feel that they have not occurred. I am nothing like the analogy of the patient you described and though I don't take offense personally I do take issue with your opinion in the sense that as you are not psychic, you cannot possibly "know" that this never happened to me. Tell me, if you knew that this treatment had been meated out to you and you recieved the same reply from a professional, what would you do?
I am not in any way trying to tell you your business here but most of the hypnotherapists I have spoken to have absolutely no hands on experience of pain hypnosis at all and can only theoretically cast an opinion. So if you were me and you knew damn well that this had been done to you, what would you do? Hypnotically speaking.

thanks

Bealie

[Don]

Dealing with pain is a common practice by hypnotists, and it is very easily done. I have no idea why you are having problems finding someone who can help you with this, however my guess is that it is because you are only looking at one aspect of the situation and are not willing to completely change. Therefore, to work on you would be a waste of time. Right now, from your description, the pain is more important than the change.

The strength of your beliefs, as I stated, are clearly expressed in your post. As I stated, you are focusing on cause rather than symptoms. In that sense, you are doing a self-diagnosis and I have seen no indication that you are trained to do that. Even many doctors go to other physicians for a diagnosis.

What you don't seem to understand is that coming from the point-of-view of a hypnotherapist, it does not matter whether what you believe happened in the past actually occurred or are simply mental creations. They can easily be dealt with if you want to do so. Time Line Therapy is just one technology that can resolve this in minutes.

However, the strength of your belief in the cause (real or not) gives it strength. Keeping the belief is a secondary gain that, as I surmised, you simply do not wish to give up at this time. Yes, you want to change, but only on your terms. If you cannot change the way you want (keeping some things and losing others) then you do not want to change at all. As an analogy, you are asking a surgeon to perform an appendectomy with their hands tied. Maybe they could do it by holding instruments in their mouths, but it would be time consuming and a positive result could not be predicted.

You ask what I would do? As I said, forget the cause, work on the symptoms. If the symptoms are removed and the pain is gone, does the cause matter? To me, were I in your shoes, it wouldn't matter a bit. I'd welcome the change and move on with my life.

But from your posts it is clear to me that you have a lot of anger and rage and you seem to want to keep them. They will cause other behavior patterns that you don't want to occur, even if the current symptoms are removed.

It's going to be up to you as to whether you want to change and give up your attachment to the anger and rage. If you do, change will be fast and thorough. If you don't, ever if the current symptoms are alleviated, new ones will develop.

Although I didn't say it, I had guessed that you would feel anger at me for what I posted. Frankly, I did this on purpose in an attempt to get you to respond. Hmmmm...maybe holding onto the anger and rage isn't doing me any good....

However, please be aware that I do not look at your current beliefs and behavior as good or bad. They simply are. You are free to keep them or change them.

So I'll leave you with this one question: Assuming you are correct about those events happening to you in your past, who is your anger and rage as a result of them, and your current behaviors due to them, really harming?

Many years ago, I had a girlfriend who had been verbally abused by her father. She had moved out of his house, and we eventually moved 1,000 miles away from her father. One day, her anger over her treatment boiled over. "I wish he was dead," she said.

"He's 1,000 miles away. He can't touch you or talk to you. For all practical purposes, he is dead" I responded.

She thought about it for a moment, and then the anger and rage returned. "I still wish he was dead."

[Terry (existing)]

You say you are not trying to tell us our business, but it would seem only so long as we feed you what you want regardless of if it is reasonable or not. I have no problem with that, so I will reply honestly regarding if I know this person or not, and the answer is NO. This of course brings us to the end of the road, you asked your question and got an answer that was exactly what you asked for. Goodbye.

[jaynebeal]

Reading this back I've discovered how useless I am at explaining myself. I really am not trying to tell you your business at all. What I'm saying is that some suggestions were put in using pain as a lever to be triggered by certain stimulus. Having been triggered the effects duly happened and all I'm trying to do is find out from people with experience how this was achieved as what I remember is sketchy. I was told that the subconscious does not accept things that are not beneficial to the person unless put in using pain as a lever so am only reiterating what I learnt from other professionals such as yourselves. I have no reason to wish to hold onto this negative stuff and only want to get rid of it. My reasons for writing to you are simply to learn the mechanics of how it was acheived. One of the main suggestions was that I would have a heart attack if I was rich or wrote a book and published it...all I'm trying to do is find some one to get rid of the initial suggestions so I can get on with my life. I was told that if enough pain or fear was attached to the insertion then it would happen and that's what was done and all I'm trying to achieve here is finding out for sure if I should just plough on regardless or find some one willing to take it out.

Jayne

[skip]

Jayne,

There are two schools of thought on this type of thing among others.

One is that you must go back, and work with the original 'incident' and resolve that. This type of therapy would involve regression, either consciously or unconsciously or both, etc. And I can see why people who havent dealt with this sort of thing might be reluctant.

The other takes the learning attiture towards theraputic intervention. Yesterday you learned that, today you can learn something else. What you did yesterday (behaviorally) doesnt dictate what you will do tomorrow.

Think of it this way. There are many instances in your life where one moment you behaved one way, and the next moment your responses were changed forever. These things 'happen' to us all the time in ways both major and small, and we dont think much about them.

A therapast who works using this philosophy would be able to help you realtively easily and fast.

You learned to respond, and it doesnt really matter how that learning took place. You are a learning machine and you simply want to learn to do something else. That isnt a problem for you, you do it every day. You just need a little bit of help learning how to learn deliberately.

Look into NLP or EMDR first.

cheers,

Skip

[Terry (existing)]

Jane, you have heard correctly, though perhaps understood the wrong way. Pain is to be avoided at all costs for most of us. Therefor, we will accept the unacceptable in order to avoid it. However, what you ask about is not so complicated that you need a specialized practitioner to assist you to change, which is what you seem to perceive at the moment. I have already said you should find yourself a GOOD practitioner who knows people, not someone who has specialized in one area alone were you believe yourself to be. Now if that is not understandable, or if you feel it to be unbelievable, there is nothing more to be said. Either you accept what we tell you, or you choose not to, and in the later case, you seek help elsewere, since we are not here to argue the facts as we know them as against the facts as you believe them to be.
We have people online here from the UK, and of those two come to mind whom I believe are at different ends of the country, one being Merlin who is I believe close to the South, and the other being Jack whom I believe from his comments is living in the North of England. Contact one of them directly and ask for an appointment. Failing that, you are out of luck, since we do not do therapy online, particullarly when it is something you find yourself unable to explain fully.
Sorry for your hurt feelings, but the facts exist whether we accept them or not, and I have just told you those facts.

[Don]

Hi, Jayne.

Terry is absolutely correct. You have heard some things about how the mind works, but not fully understood them.

The subconscious accepts lots of things that are not for the good of the person without the use of pain as a lever. People smoke cigarettes without the threat of pain. People overeat without the threat of pain. People engage in practices that are potentially lethal without the threat of pain.

But let's move away from your incorrect understandings to your immediate goals. You write that you now believe that you "would have a heart attack if I was rich or wrote a book and published it." That's what is called a "limiting belief," and hypnotherapists and NLP practitioners deal with such things quickly and easily all the time. You also say that "all I'm trying to do is find some one to get rid of the initial suggestions so I can get on with my life." Bravo! I applaud you on this. Many people, surprisingly, prefer to stay in a state of pain rather than improve their situation. This could very well be the start of a new life for you...if you act on it.

Skip gave some very good information and I would agree with him. I would also say that a well-trained and experienced hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner can help you change very quickly.

Note the focus here is on change. Making things better. A good hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner will make the causes, real or imagined, unimportant and no longer stop you from achieving your goals and getting on in life.

Now, here's a secret that many people (at least those who aren't on these forums) won't tell you. We are constantly going into various states of trance. Depending upon a variety of factors, including the nature of the trance, we are more or less open to anything that is presented to us. What this means is that we receive suggestions all the time. It doesn't matter who gave them, what matters is that we believe them. The solution is dealing with the behavior resulting from the belief. Part of this is to make sure that the belief no longer has an impact on us. It doesn't make the belief vanish. It doesn't get rid of any memory of it. It simply ends its effect on us.

The above is a simplification, but the key is this: there is help and it won't take years to change! Along with Skip and Terry I agree that if you get assistance you will have new behaviors fast.

Pretty good news, huh?

So the next step is up to you. Contact a hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner in your area. Ask them about their training and experience. Set up a session with them. If there are secondary benefits as I described in earlier posts they, too, will be handled.

Be sure to come back and let us know how successful you are!

[jaynebeal]

How big is the smile on my face right now..l.o.l.. Thank you very much for your answers. I didn't think it would be impossible to change the learning, I was just worried that if it was put in using fear and pain that you would have to use the same force to take it out..to balance it out as it were. That's great. I shall set about looking into nlp/emdr forthwith. Many thanks.

Jayne

[Don]

Ahhhh. See? That's a simple and direct question. Allow me, please, to give you a simple and direct answer:

No. Absolutely not. Hypnotherapists, NLP practitioners, people who use EMDR absolutely do not use either fear or pain in their work. In fact, if there is a time when a memory happens to cause fear or pain, an experienced professional will know how to end your feelings of fear or pain within seconds.

Good luck! You have a wonderful, happy and freeing future ahead of you!