Covert Pattern Interupt

[Persuasion Skills]

Hi Guys,

I've been working on a new pattern interupt.

It gets great results and is very covert let me know what you think!

Hi my name is Marc (pause) ...perhaps you've heard of me......?

As they go on a (transderivational) search I place in an embedded command!

The Embedd I would usually add is:

"I'm sure were going to work well togeather"

The reply is invariably "YES" and we start the meeting.

If I really want to space them out and be less covert

I'll add in another line, as they go into the search,

"whats was that thought you thought you were going to say before..."

"Mmmm (anchor) I'm sure were going to work well togeather"

Using the Mmmm as an anchor means I can fire it off during the meeting, and as they go into a light trance and fire in more embedds/ pace and lead

Because the Transderivational search is quite short I add the embedded command very quickly.

This is why I add the "MMMmmm" anchor as its a very useful trance state anchor which i can fire througout the meeting

I've found that the results are very effective...

Have any of you got any more pattern interupts?

Marc
http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/ (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/)

[Merlin]

What kind of 'pattern' are you interrupting?

[Persuasion Skills]

What kind of 'pattern' are you interrupting?
I'll either use it when intoducing my self on the phone, or in mid handshake.

Its been very efective

Regards

Marc
http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/

[Merlin]

I'm sure it is *very* effective.
But I'm not in much of a position to discuss it further, since the method is pretty much beyond my ethics paradigm.

[Persuasion Skills]

I'm sure it is *very* effective.
But I'm not in much of a position to discuss it further, since the method is pretty much beyond my ethics paradigm.
Hi Merlin

I'm confused by this

If someone came to you for help and you used pattern interupts to change the behaviour would that be unethical?

Here's something I posted a while back

When I am using my influencing skills this has unfailingly kept me on the right side of the ethics Line

If the conversation I was having with the person I was trying to influence was printed word for word on the front cover of The Times,

How would you feel?
They feel?
Your Family feel?
Your Friends Etc?

If you feel uncomfortable with any of the answers, then that’s always a good guide...

As a young man who learnt these skills at 18 and who at the begining used them ethically and unethically, I can safely say that the above test has never steered me wrong!

Also more impotantly in therapy, in sales, on a date, in any human interaction what goes around comes around. If you don't deliver on your promises eventually know one will believe you.

So whether your using hypnosis / NLP or not, the main thing is that you deliver on your promise....

All the best
Marc
www.persuasion-skills.co.uk (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk)

[Unregistered]

> Covert Pattern Interupt : I'll either use it when intoducing my self on the phone, or in mid handshake. Its been very efective Marc http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk

maybe you differ, but 'Covertly' manipulating/tricking people into becoming your customers doesn't seem like the right way to proceed.

In each village or city you live, you are presented with many opportunities for demonstrating, often 'publically', how you can successfully help people.

This should provide you with more than enough all ready customers for your Business.

example : Last week, a woman was noticed walking into a busy open public place, towing a portable stand with a small Oxygen bottle on it. She was connected to this via a line ending in a cannula inside each nostril (with the tank turned off, btw). Plus she had a couple of inhalers in each hand, of Albuterol & Atrovent.

She was managing herself well, curiously exploring.

That is, until a near-by elevator broke down causing increasing public unrest. Finding herself surrounded shortly, and displaying rising degrees of anxiety, she started whining : "Help, I have COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), and I can't breathe anymore. help ! help ! Help ! " : flailing her arms about increasingly anxious, she managed to work herself into a state of panic before becoming hysterical; with each word louder until she was literally screaming.

What a scene, in which surrounding people of all ages found themselves at a loss of knowing how to best help her, right then & there.

Being into "persuasion", Mark : how (besides calling 9-1-1 reporting another victim) can you "pattern-interrupt" her, safely & quickly ? Well, as a NLP'er - you can show her how easy it is for her to calm herself into any wonderful state-of-mind of her own choosing, right ?

as so happening, this is how it was handled :
" keeping this up, what if you pass out. Is that what you want ?"
woman: "No - anything to get me outa here !" (looking bewildered, as if she's not really Present, anyway)
"Kewl ! so - (spoken in your most calming, soft, soothing voice) : how about you choose in your mind some nice pleasant relaxing scene, just pick any really soothing & comfy to you, in which you feel just wonderful ... (yadda, yadda : you get to pace-&-lead, here). as in such scenarios, many people in such states-of-mind will readily agree going with your suggestions, immediately = like in less than 10 seconds. Momentarily, she had a peaceful smile on her face.

Being the excellent communicator you are, you could have helped her much better, in less time. And as well, demonstrate teaching any of a dozen other wonderfulnesses, not mentioned here - yet.

Of course, as a hypnotist you can as well (in a more private place to protect people's confidentiality) guide an age-regression for helping people, suffering from chronic conditions, heal/clear their ISE's.

In this case, her symptoms were generated by the emotion/feeling of insecurity & fear.
Each successive sse led back, until she got back to before the ISE feeling secure & safe.
Experiencing that event again, she re-evaluated it with her benefit of her adult mind. This enabled her to reject the false beliefs & associated feelings. And replace primary erroneous programming with her adult insight.
Going thru the ise & sse's, applying adult insights, her Informed child was able to connect the change to her adult.
Future-pacing enabled her to test-drive her Healed-self; with further suggestions reinforcing the changes.

Really amazing the happy difference one can live :-)

Have fun helping build people, thus growing your Business !

Agawan

[skip]

Hi Marc,

Maybe I can clarify a bit here.

Any pattern interrupt is covert, if you lead immediately. Even jumping on your desk, as a pattern interrupt, is covert, if you immediately lead the person on. Sure they will consciously remember you jumping on the desk, but in the moment it will be essentially transparent, because it does interrupt the pattern, and you lead on.

SO, it isnt the covert(ness) of the interrupt that I think Merlin objects to, it is the context in which you presented it.

Sure if someone comes to you for help, pattern interrupts, embeds, binds, double binds, presuppositions, et al, covert/overt all apply and are "ethical".

The question comes in when you decide to 'pattern interrupt' someone who hasnt asked for help. You presented the 'pattern interrupt' as a just walk up to someone and do it. For Merlin, that isnt ethical, there is no informed consent, on the other persons part.

The waitress who is having a bad day. Pattern interrupt her and lead her to a better frame of mind. Many people would consider this a good thing. Most would have no objection to it. It is still an invasion of her sanctity, and many people would question the ethicality of this.

So Marc, please bare in mind, it isnt the tool, it is the use the tool is put to, the intent of the use, that makes the difference.

skip

[Persuasion Skills]

Hi Marc,

Maybe I can clarify a bit here.

SO, it isnt the covert(ness) of the interrupt that I think Merlin objects to, it is the context in which you presented it.

Sure if someone comes to you for help, pattern interrupts, embeds, binds, double binds, presuppositions, et al, covert/overt all apply and are "ethical".

The question comes in when you decide to 'pattern interrupt' someone who hasnt asked for help. You presented the 'pattern interrupt' as a just walk up to someone and do it. For Merlin, that isnt ethical, there is no informed consent, on the other persons part.

The waitress who is having a bad day. Pattern interrupt her and lead her to a better frame of mind. Many people would consider this a good thing. Most would have no objection to it. It is still an invasion of her sanctity, and many people would question the ethicality of this.

So Marc, please bare in mind, it isnt the tool, it is the use the tool is put to, the intent of the use, that makes the difference.

skip
Hi Skip

I appreciate your thoughts. Please take this post in the spirit of friendly discussion:)

I completely agree with the above, I believe that I use my skills ethically. If you see my testimionials they again mention ethics.

I've trained all types of people from Graduates to help them get through Job intervies, to orgainstions that help get underprivleged kids into work to pyschologists and hypnotherapists

In my last post I also mentioned what goes around comes around. and I believe that if you use these skills unethically eventually it will come back on you.

As for there use in everday conversation, there is a choice for us all to make.

I agree that for me putting the waitress in agood mood is a good thing, however I take your point.

For me all language is hypnosis, and people can accidently put people in good and bad moods all the time.

I choose to try and put people in good states when I interact with them.
I could tell a joke, and or I could tell a story or I could use a pattern interupt like the one I mentioned above, for me its about giving people tools to put people in positve frames of minds. If thats considered a bad thing well so be it!

Is it unethical for a friend to try and cheer someone up

Is it unethical for a saleman to sell his product?

Some people would consider stage Hypnosis unethical, whilst many others would consider it entertainment.

Some people would consider Hypnosis to be unethical / wrong etc...

I consider it unethical for a person with no counselling skills to be able to set up a hypnois practice with minimal training and in some cases learnt from a correspondance couse.

If they use a pttern interupt with a client is that ethical or should we take in how he got his / her hypnosis training?


Also there are many people here who want to Learn NLP and Hypnois, however they may not want to become therapists, or do not have the funds to go on a training.

Your right what I should have done was explained Covert in a different way

If you want to learn Hypnosis the best way is to go on a course

If you want to learn how language affects people, you can practice pattern interupts within a group

By covert I meant you could try this pattern interupt with a stranger and see an honest response.

I see lots of posts here from people wanting to learn my intention was to show them something that they could go out and practice.

I was just trying to pass on some learning.

Thanks for listening:)

Marc
www.persuasion-skills.co.uk (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk)

[skip]

Marc,

Not a problem for me, I agree completely.

You cannot not communicate, and if you are going to take responsibility for your communication, then it must all be done as deliberately as possible. This means that you will manipulate everyone, to some degree or another, and the only question is will it be for their betterment or the worse, and who decides what is for their betterment?

Leaving someone feeling better is always a good thing in my book.

Sales is fine, without sales people we would have very little civilization.

Ethics is in the intent, and the method. It is a combination of the two, and others cannot know what was in your heart, they can only know what is in theirs. Well meaning people disagree over what is ethical.

I was only trying to clarify.

cheers and thanks for the post(s).

skip

[Persuasion Skills]

> Covert Pattern Interupt : I'll either use it when intoducing my self on the phone, or in mid handshake. Its been very efective Marc http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/)

maybe you differ, but 'Covertly' manipulating/tricking people into becoming your customers doesn't seem like the right way to proceed.
Hi Agwan

As explained in my previous post by covert I meant that people could practice.

Not once did i mention manipulating or tricking, this is your interpretation.

I also mentioned in previous posts what goes around comes around. and I believe that if you use these skills unethically eventually it will come back on you.


>
In each village or city you live, you are presented with many opportunities for demonstrating, often 'publically', how you can successfully help people.

This should provide you with more than enough all ready customers for your Business.

I completely agree!

I've trained all types of people from Graduates to help them get through Job interviews. To orgainstions that help get underprivleged kids into work,to pyschologists and hypnotherapists.

>
example : Last week, a woman was noticed walking into a busy open public place, towing a portable stand with a small Oxygen bottle on it. She was connected to this via a line ending in a cannula inside each nostril (with the tank turned off, btw). Plus she had a couple of inhalers in each hand, of Albuterol & Atrovent.

She was managing herself well, curiously exploring.

That is, until a near-by elevator broke down causing increasing public unrest. Finding herself surrounded shortly, and displaying rising degrees of anxiety, she started whining : "Help, I have COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), and I can't breathe anymore. help ! help ! Help ! " : flailing her arms about increasingly anxious, she managed to work herself into a state of panic before becoming hysterical; with each word louder until she was literally screaming.

What a scene, in which surrounding people of all ages found themselves at a loss of knowing how to best help her, right then & there.

Being into "persuasion", Mark : how (besides calling 9-1-1 reporting another victim) can you "pattern-interrupt" her, safely & quickly ? Well, as a NLP'er - you can show her how easy it is for her to calm herself into any wonderful state-of-mind of her own choosing, right ?

Of course and Its "Marc" by the way, and I would help,just as anyone would try to help,

However I probaly wouldn't say "I'm going to hypnotise you", Id use langauge to calm them down, why is that manipulation / trickery?

I have to say I'm not sure what your trying to imply with this example?

> as so happening, this is how it was handled :
" keeping this up, what if you pass out. Is that what you want ?"
woman: "No - anything to get me outa here !" (looking bewildered, as if she's not really Present, anyway)
"Kewl ! so - (spoken in your most calming, soft, soothing voice) : how about you choose in your mind some nice pleasant relaxing scene, just pick any really soothing & comfy to you, in which you feel just wonderful ... (yadda, yadda : you get to pace-&-lead, here). as in such scenarios, many people in such states-of-mind will readily agree going with your suggestions, immediately = like in less than 10 seconds. Momentarily, she had a peaceful smile on her face.

Being the excellent communicator you are, you could have helped her much better, in less time. And as well, demonstrate teaching any of a dozen other wonderfulnesses, not mentioned here - yet.


Ahh I see your implyig that I would'nt have helped her and I'd let her die... or have I missed the point?

Or are you saying that I should use metaphor to teach the people who read this group about leaning these NLP skills...

Last month I raised money for the NSPCC by teaching college students how to use criteria Elicitation so they couldpass an interview..... Is that manipulation / trickery?


>
Of course, as a hypnotist you can as well (in a more private place to protect people's confidentiality) guide an age-regression for helping people, suffering from chronic conditions, heal/clear their ISE's.

In this case, her symptoms were generated by the emotion/feeling of insecurity & fear.
Each successive sse led back, until she got back to before the ISE feeling secure & safe.
Experiencing that event again, she re-evaluated it with her benefit of her adult mind. This enabled her to reject the false beliefs & associated feelings. And replace primary erroneous programming with her adult insight.
Going thru the ise & sse's, applying adult insights, her Informed child was able to connect the change to her adult.
Future-pacing enabled her to test-drive her Healed-self; with further suggestions reinforcing the changes.

Really amazing the happy difference one can live :-)

Have fun helping build people, thus growing your Business !

Agawan
Obviously my first email was badly wriiten I was not teaching people how to manipulate others, i was giving inexperianced NLP ers hypnothists a pattern they could try out

I'm sorry If I offended people with the word covert as explained
there are many people here who want to Learn NLP and Hypnois, however they may not want to become therapists, or do not have the funds to go on a training.

Your right what I should have done was explained Covert in a different way

If you want to learn Hypnosis the best way is to go on a course

If you want to learn how language affects people, you can practice pattern interupts within a group

By covert I meant you could try this pattern interupt with a stranger and see an honest response.

I see lots of posts here from people wanting to learn my intention was to show them something that they could go out and practice.

I was just trying to pass on some learning.

Thanks for listening:)

Marc
www.persuasion-skills.co.uk (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/)

[Persuasion Skills]

Marc,

Not a problem for me, I agree completely.

You cannot not communicate, and if you are going to take responsibility for your communication, then it must all be done as deliberately as possible. This means that you will manipulate everyone, to some degree or another, and the only question is will it be for their betterment or the worse, and who decides what is for their betterment?

Leaving someone feeling better is always a good thing in my book.

Sales is fine, without sales people we would have very little civilization.

Ethics is in the intent, and the method. It is a combination of the two, and others cannot know what was in your heart, they can only know what is in theirs. Well meaning people disagree over what is ethical.

I was only trying to clarify.

cheers and thanks for the post(s).

skip
Thanks Skip

I appreciate your comments and support.

All the best

Marc
www.persuasion-skills.co.uk (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk)

[RussWilde]

Leaving someone feeling better is always a good thing in my book.

Ordinarily I agree, but having recently been exposed to something similar and, I'm ashamed to admit, doing something similar in real life, I would say that good judgement should always be applied.

in the example of the waitress posted above, she might be having a bad day and, using your skills, you could make it a little more tollerable and enjoyable for her.
BUT Consider;
Having bad days waiting tables might be her only driving force to push herself through night-school and persue a more intellectually, financially and emotionaly beneficial carreer.
by making her woking day a little easier, it becomes a little easier for her to accept the idea that maybe she can go on busting tables for the rest of her working life. Maybe her kid will be fine in the local school and she doesn't really mind working here as much as she thought she did.

Reading peoples comments here and in a few other places has lead me, over the past couple of days, put a great deal of time and effort into correcting some errors I had previously made "helping people" and, in one case, helping myself.

I have learned a lot about myself this month.
Compared top how much I learned on my degree over the last 3 years, I'm thinking about re-training in psychology, if only to fill in some gaps in my knowledge and understanding.

[Merlin]

>Hi Merlin

Hello,

>I'm confused by this

That was not my intent, sorry.

>If someone came to you for help and you used pattern interupts to change the behaviour would that be unethical?

I didn't see in your post where you took the time to determine what they wanted change about.
It seems from your post that you are setting yourself up as all knowing and all wise, that it is OK to impose your will on another person because you believe your way is best.

I know some strong willed religious folks who go about trying to force their ways because they believe there way is better.

I don't think it's appropriate for them or us.

>Here's something I posted a while back
>When I am using my influencing skills this has unfailingly kept me on the right side of the ethics Line

That's fine, but not everyone will agree with your ethics map.
You might think it's ok, and that's fine.

>If the conversation I was having with the person I was trying to influence was printed word for word on the front cover of The Times,

How would you feel?
They feel?
Your Family feel?
Your Friends Etc?

That might not be appropriate :)

>If you feel uncomfortable with any of the answers, then that’s always a good guide...

It's a good guide for *your* morals/ethics, but may not be for mine, or the person you are persuading.

>As a young man who learnt these skills at 18 and who at the begining used them ethically and unethically, I can safely say that the above test has never steered me wrong!

For *your* morals, that may be true.

>Also more impotantly in therapy, in sales, on a date, in any human interaction what goes around comes around. If you don't deliver on your promises eventually know one will believe you.

How does that help?

Not too long ago, I made a purchase. The item wholesale price was £ 5000 and suggested retail was £6500. I was prepared to pay the £6500 and went to buy the item.
The salesman insisted on a price of £8200.

It was within his morals to sell the item for £8200. After all, I came to him. I wanted the item. Why not?

To me, £8200 was a bit pricey. I later found the item elsewhere and gladly paid the £6500.

Had the first salesman been sufficiently skilled, he would have 'persuaded' me to spend the £8200. It certainly was within his ethical realm, but given the conscious choice, i'd just as soon not pay £8200 for the item.

What if *I* was the skilled persuader?
What if I used a pattern interrupt, etc. to convince this fellow that he should give the item to me? (good customer will, advertising, or some such).

Perhaps your morals/ethics would say such persuasion is acceptable in a job interview context.
But aren't you then denying the emploer to find the best employee?
Aren't you then stealing from him?

Another example:
I'm known to be somewhat of a religeous fanatic.
My morals/ethics tell me it is good to 'persuade' you to my religion so that you do not burn in hell.
Should I then 'persuade' you to accept my religion to spare you from eternal damnation?
Should I use pattern interrupts, anchors, whatever covert means to convert you?


>So whether your using hypnosis / NLP or not, the main thing is that you deliver on your promise....

I don't agree.
I feel that the main thing is to allow the other person the *conscious* choice.

[Tomo]

Look, people, ethical is a relative term. Let me explain:

I have a friend who recently challenged me to tell him something about himself using body language alone because he found out that I'm "fluent" in it. I think he thought I'd say something about the way he was sitting. Anyway, I'd noticed that he seemed nervous and in need of comfort for a few days round the previous weekend, by the Sunday it had gone and that, combined with knowing he's looking for a girlfriend, this led me to believe that there was a girl involved in that timeframe. I just said "Did you ask her out then?" and he went white. He took exception to me being able to read the information everyone gives out. He thinks it's impolite to do so and has been weird around me ever since. My point of view, however, is that if someone doesn't want to overhear a conversation they shouldn't have it out in public.

Moral: He thought what I did was unfair and somehow invasive. I shouldn't be watchign him that closely. Other people are another matter. One of my "things" is making quarrelsome people simply go quiet, get confused and want to go home. He knows about this, has seen it done, and is okay with it as long as I don't try to do it to him. Relative ethics, you see.

Question: If you've learned to use a tool and another man hasn't, does that mean that you shouldn't use it because morally you'd have an unfair advantage over him? Or should he learn to use the tool too? After all, advertisers use influence to sell early burger deaths to our children and we're STILL having a debate over it! Where's the difference?

[rest]

Good afternoon, everyone.
I am new to the site and quite interested in the discussion format created on this forum. I have been wondering for a while, about the mentalist "trick" when someone talks to a person in the street for 5 or so minutes and then asks them ti pick a 4 nubered pin code of their choice. The person has written it down before hand and has "guessed" correctly. Obviously some degree of embedded comand has gone into the conversation, but I would love to better understand the idea. Anyone could help me they would be wonderful.
Many thanks,
Rest.

P.s have been very impreseed with the maturity of merlins comments recently. very insightfull.

[RussWilde]

Rest

Firstly, welcome to the boards, I'm only new here myself, but I hope I can offer some comment on your question.

I have been wondering for a while, about the mentalist "trick" when someone talks to a person in the street for 5 or so minutes and then asks them ti pick a 4 nubered pin code of their choice. The person has written it down before hand and has "guessed" correctly.

1. the very fact that you refer to this as a "trick" should tell you all you need to know.

2. If you're really interested in mentalism, there are a number of magic websites who can SELL you the information. Bearing in mind that this kind of thing is the metnallists "bread and water", or at least, their "crackers and cheese", and anyone who knows the solution, would also know the implications on their own use of it, in their work.

This site is for the discussion of NLP, Hypnosis etc. Not magic tricks, so don't expect to get your answer here.

[j0hnny#]

Back on the ethics side of things on this thread.... just thinking there how the calculation about the consequences of the manipulation (if that is what you want to call it) might be done??? Your intervention in their life is an inevitablility of change in theirs... you can hide from this responsibility... 'exert no wilful influence' but your encounter will still be an influence on them... You could judge that making them feel good is preferable to their bad mood... to you... it might not be to them.... though it might be (and ultimatley good or bad either way). My point is how should one go about assessing the good and the bad? If you focus on the consequences how will you know these in advance... and which consequences and for who?