Child's fear of needles, dentists & other medical people

[Sonya]

Hi folks.
I have been busy and it has been a long time since I logged on here. I only have a few minutes, so I will be concise (for a change.) After two hypnotherapy sessions, there is improvement in my 9 y.o. client's behavior towards his medical treatment, but maybe there could be more improvement more quickly. I tailored a script for courage & reducing anxiety for this little boy and created some anchors, which he and his parents seem to be utilizing quite well. (The parents prompt him.) There are family dynamics I don't want to post, but overall I can say that the family is intact, functional and loving. I didn't feel comfortable doing a "quick phobia cure," so I am wondering if doing that would bring quicker improvement. We are all interested in lasting change. I also didn't go to the "original event" because there was so much anxiety about it from the parent and the child. (He was really traumatized by certain past events/medical procedures and the parents had difficulty dealing with what happened as well.) We dealt with "what is" and got creative with some empowering visualizations and anchoring. He is doing better, but the parents and I want more. What are your thoughts, ideas, and/or suggestions for this case? Thanks in advance! And hello to my old friends here. I hope you are all doing fantastic! Sincerely, Sonya (formerly HypnosisBySonya.)

[Docresults]

Sonya,

You don't know me. So Hi it's me. You may want to consider this... If the parents and the child have difficulty around 1st cause (original event) have you considered doing it metaphorically? Then you could also future pace the change in the same metaphor as well.

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

"Why do the Alphabet song and Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star have the same tune?" My Grampa Vetter

[Sonya]

"Ah ha!" said the blind person. "Now I see." Nice to meet you Doc. Very good suggestion. Some of the visualizations we did were metaphors, but I have not thought of a complete metaphor for the original event and responses of the parents. I will think on that and the future pacing we will do at our third session. Thank you so much!!! I will keep posting, but there may be days that go by before I make time for this. Thanks again! Sonya

[skip]

Sonya,

I have little doubt that any of us escaped childhood doctor visits without being traumatized.

At least that is how I remember it, whether I was actually traumatized or not.

My granddaughter agrees. She begins barganing at the door. "No shots." Thats what they must agree to, or she wont come in.

And yes the parent's reaction often confirms the trauma.

And from that point on, what we all know is going to happen at the doctors, becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Me I 'grew out of it' as we used to put it. Now I would describe it in NLP terms, but the effect is the same.

There are medical proceedures that I dont ever expect I will like.

Only one person I know enjoys prostate exams, and he IS weired!

One of my friends who is a Doc says she gives the best prostate exams. But she was a bit in her cups when she made the claim, and I would rather not discuss how the subject came up.

I think I missed something in your post.

What specifically is the outcome this person wants?

cheers,

skip

[Simple Guy]

Sonya,

Glad to see a friend from the past back here again.

Cautionary note, the child is the client, and I'd be mindful of what
the parents "want" here and their (the parents) "difficulty" in this. For
any number of reasons, they may have been feeding the child's fears,
and also may have furnished some secondary gain for the fear to
continue. Not sure what you mean by "the parents prompt him,"
but in addition to possibly prompting positive anchors, the child
may, perhaps, be reading their faces, etc., and anchoring to fear.
This is only a caution, not an advisory, as not enough
info. is presented. Glad to hear that the child is doing better.

[TaffyE]

Possibility.
Deal with the parent's emotions about the origin, so stopping the child picking up on their emotions.

One MD I know tells the child "This is going to hurt so I'll shout with you. Are you ready, but don't shout before I do"
Then shouts as he pushes the needle in. He claims it works almost every time.

[Terry (existing)]

Possibility.
Deal with the parent's emotions about the origin, so stopping the child picking up on their emotions.

One MD I know tells the child "This is going to hurt so I'll shout with you. Are you ready, but don't shout before I do"
Then shouts as he pushes the needle in. He claims it works almost every time. Don;t know what you have used to date, but there are so many distraction techniques you can teach this child, along with glove analgesia which works so well for persons who fear the dentists office. Without being present it is difficult to choose, but you should be able to do so with the child right there. If he has fun, he will learn and learn well...

[Merlin]

Hi Sonya,

I'd start with the cause, PAIN.

Phobias are an irrational fear.
There's nothing irrational about wanting to avoid pain!

Create a magic spot on the arm (or other target areas) which is immune to pain.
So long as the shot is given at the magic spot, there is no pain.
Swab the spot with ink, dye, iodine, or other marker.
Explain that no pain will occur at that spot from shots (forever).
Induce anesthesia there for shots.
No pain-no fear.

You can then future pace a pain-free shot.

You might need a little work on fears, but children learn fast and pain-free works well.

[Jack]

Hello again, Sonya. I cannot add to the good advice given but out of curiousity, what makes you averse to the fast phobia cure?

Jack

[Poodle]

Read the "title" of the post. She is making three out of probably 1. The pain goes away and no more fear so doctors and dentists can be good guys. That's one very wonderful thing about the mind. We can remember it did hurt but not the hurt itself.

[Terry (existing)]

This whole post leaves me wondering. Nobody has challenged the idea that this is a phobia. At least not in the sense I use that word, since I call phobia an "unreasonable fear" while the pain of a needle being put in ones arm is very real, causing realistic fear of real pain. Also there are dozens of methods that could have been employed, and since Sonya is in the business, I am wondering what she HAS used before asking advise? Fear is based on what happened in the past, so unless something is interposed between what happened and what WILL happen, the child will not be changed, and neither will the fear disapear....The initial cause is just a smoke screen, since there is no difference between the first pain of a needle and the ones that follow. I maintain that glove analgesia, followed by anasthesia is the way to go, and it is accomplished in one session, without intervention by the parents I might add.:confused: Perhaps the greatest advantage of this, is that it puts the control in the hands of the child, and breeds confidence for the rest of his life.

[Jack]

Read the "title" of the post. She is making three out of probably 1. The pain goes away and no more fear so doctors and dentists can be good guys. That's one very wonderful thing about the mind. We can remember it did hurt but not the hurt itself.

I would still like to know why the aversion to FPC, since it works and can be made totally painless for children.

Jack

[Simple Guy]

Terry and Poodle,

I sense that there is a generalized problem (Sonya says that "He was
really traumatized") and though glove anesthesia, "magic spot," etc. may
be useful, they may not in and of themselves provide a complete
solution. Also, it is often irrelevant, in my experience, whether or not
a fear is "rational," or not, when working with the unconscious to
overcome it.

[Terry (existing)]

You could be right, since replying to a post such as this is a crap shoot. We have no knowledge of the true situation, and know nothing of the child involved, which is why I queried what had been done to date, in order to give some basis for any future replies. To date Sonya has not replied.
As for the trauma, such does not normally last beyond the time in the dentists office, or doctors chair, so one should be dealing with a child who is not suffering trauma at the moment according to the information offered.
On the other hand, this child may see Sonya in that same light as a dentist, doctor, or other threatening figure, in which case she has a real problem on her hands. Sadly we know too little to be sure any suggestion is good. A valid reason for not being involved with therapy at a distance....

[Docresults]

Terry,

I can't remember in my experience that getting a shot (needle) from the doctor or dentist was ever scary or fearful (traumatic) for me.

Growing up in the orphanage going to the doctor for shots was some how framed as exciting and fun because we got to do something different than the normal routine.

Sonya asked what we thought not if we would do therapy. She had reservations for whatever reason (family dynamics, etc.) and seemed to want input on other possibilities. The concept of using metaphors and Time-line was appealing to her as it allowed her to by-pass any resistance or perceived resistance from child and/or parents and any she herself has as the helper/facilitator/hypnotist.

She explained she will be off the board for a few days and when she returns I'm suspecting she'll answer all the different concerns that have been brought up.

I also do not perceive she is in the same role as someone about to administer a shoot to the child Since she has already done two hypnosis sessions and taught some anchoring games (skills).

To Your Best,
Doc Houston


"Hard work has a future pay off. Laziness pays off now." My Grampa Vetter

[Terry (existing)]

Well doc, we are all different of course, and though a needle has never bothered me enough to refuse one, I do know of very large men who fainted at the sight of it, even before it was used on them. One in particullar was a huge man, and a phys ed instructor at one of the schools my children attended. He had a deadly fear of the dentists chair because of that needle, and this continued until I taught him how to handle it.
In Sonya's case however, it is possible that what we don't know is a barrier to offering reasonable advise. As for whether I would do such therapy, of course I would, its a child, but I don't believe I said that. IF I had such a situation, I would deal with it as I saw fit, based on information given, and observations made. There is after all no one single way to get the job done. However, nobody should be expected to do a job without full knowledge of the client, and the client's personality. This we don't have, so any advise must be the same as found in books, and suspect in the practical sense...

[Docresults]

Terry,

You are absolutely correct specific advise unable to do, reasonable advice can always be given.

Specific advise = content advice
reasonable advise = process, structure advice
Hypnosis = context

Sonya has already comment on the reasonable advice I suggested with a duh, why didn't I think of that.

I simply took her at her word and went to the file cabinet inside and looked for something structural wise that would get the results she wanted while at the same time avoid all the resistances she felt would be present with everyone involved.

I didn't question if her assumptions were true or false. I accepted that she had, had some success as she indicated. I accepted that she had some reservations as she stated and I asked myself even within this structure is there a way to get the results she is asking for?

Yes there is isomorphic metaphor from first cause to finish including all people involved.

I can not come up with the specific metaphor as I do not know enough content to create an appropriate one.

Yes one can find this type of information in a book and the reality is Sonya already knew about this information. It just wasn't readily available to her consciously. By looking at the structure she offered and asking myself if I could how would I? I came up with a possible solution that fit all the parameters that she was willing or able to share and it seemed to be, at least partly, a possible solution to her dilemma.

To Your Best,
Doc

"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies." My Grampa Vetter

[Sonya]

Hi Skip!
I am happy that you are responding. The parents' outcome is for their child to be free from his fear of medical procedures, specifically a needle which dispenses a "med" they feel their child needs. The childs' outcome... well, the child did not verbalize a specific outcome, but during our first talk he agreed he wanted to ride his bike and ride his horse. Without going into detail, I used what the family system brought into the session and together the four of us agreed on a plan. Since this is an open forum for anyone to read, I won't go into detail because of confidentiality.

I haven't seen the child again, but I got a positive email soon after I first posted here on the 18th.

Got to go now. Have a lovely day and thanks for the input.
Sonya

[Sonya]

Hello everyone on this thread. Wow. I love the energy in the responses. I skimmed through them all, but I am limited with my time now. I started a full time job with a local mental health center. I have not worked a full time job in 10 years (other than being a mother) and at the end of the day my own child is my priority. She is nine now. Anywho, I want to address each post without violating confidentiality of my client system. Since I have not heard back from the family since a positive email I received soon after my original post, the individual concern may be a moot point, but the principles are worth discussion. I will address the questions, just not now. I don't know when, but hopefully this week.

Sonya

[Sonya]

Hello. I have a few minutes to myself and checked this thread. I am glad for the many responses and interesting discussion. I just don't feel comfortable writing about specifics because this is an open forum. I wanted some ideas or confirmations and I got them. Thank you all very much. I value such learned people as you. I mean, the education alone is equivalent to a graduate level course.

I learned how to research when I was in school. Asking a question in this forum is a great way to learn and be challenged, same thing. I have books with scripts, but I wanted to ask the professionals. Plus there is a personal touch here that cannot be found in books.

I don't know how to do all of the many kinds of therapies and techniques that are available. Some techniques I feel more comfortable with than others and I trust my intuition. But there is always learning. I appreciate the sublte reminders to focus on structure and not content. One of my professors at East Carolina U. was an NLP master, though he didn't call himself that. He tried to teach me about structure. I would get lost in content. One of the things I enjoy about hypnotherapy is how easy it is to stay focused on structure. When I was a family therapist, a lot of time was wasted. Now, I make much better use of my time.

I would like to see that tape again of Virginia Satir in action. I saw a tape of her doing family therapy and I have always identified with her. I read her book Peoplemaking when I was 17. Anyway, I read and then I try. That is how I learn. I sometimes bounce ideas off of an associate of mine who is a hypnotherapist, but not much experience working with kids. I wonder if my previous experience working with kids is a help or a hinderence. I certainly will fix that. All of it, every experience, is helpful in my learning.

The last thing I will say is that the family I was working with is satisfied with the service I provided. I won't be back here for a while. I have other priorities.

[Poodle]

I'd like to see that tape of Virginia working too. Pood :)