Hypnosis to solve a crisis

[tommyvan1]

Like most non professionals I am turning to hypnotherapy to solve a crisis in my noodle. I have learned that forgetting an event is a no no but reframing it is recomended. However, suppose I had something happen to me that really screwed up the way I see the world. Not quite PTSD but something that at the time I felt was life altering. During the weeks after this event I became deppressed and very emotional. My then overloaded mind attached many other events to this one event which as you can see makes for a stock pile of sorrow. Now here is the question. If we successfully reframe the main event to the point where it becomes trivial to me. will all of the subsequent events be reframed. Or will we have to go back and reclaim every one?

[Don]

Tommy, you're asking for a diagnosis and mode of treatment without even giving people a chance to interview you. Any answer is going to be a guess and an in-person analysis might totally contradict any guess.

You say that the event is "not quite PTSD." It so happens that PTSD is a medical diagnosis. Are you an MD qualified to make such a diagnosis? Frankly, I don't know what "not quite PTSD" means as either you are diagnosed as having it or you don't have it.

Now, speaking IN GENERAL, I can say that if you reframe an event to remove its psychic charge, subsequent events will also lose that psychic charge. However, even though you may think that one event is the source of all your problems, in reality, there may be earlier causes.

Here is what I suggest: find a trained and experienced hypnotherapist. Explain everything as completely as possible. Then, he or she will be able to give you a realistic answer.

Finally, I'd just like to point out that your claim that "most non professionals...[turn] to hypnotherapy to solve a crisis in my noodle" is both factually incorrect and outright demeaning to the dedicated professional who practice hypnotherapy. We get people from all walks of life, and often doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists who have resisting patients turn them over to hypnotherapists.

[tdiamond]

I was wondering about something..

is it that we are not taught to deal with our emotions and discomfort as children that leads to people not understanding it's ok to feel things?

At what point do we allow our emotions to overcome us?

IF we follow the progression of the emotion and felt it without restraint knowing we will have a different feeling later would we circumvent the destruction of that emotion?

I know that one can easily, as a parent, create an addictive behavior personality by not allowing the child to feel and cope with normal feelings of dissapointment, grief, anger and others, in a constructive way.

Being taught to be a victim of ones emotions set one up for mental health traumas...


look forward to your input as always...

[Docresults]

Here are some thoughts (mostly mine and yet everything I have I got somewhere else).

I suspect many folks think, act and believe negative emotions are one of the sensory channels VAKOGnE. (disclaimer- I'm not sure they believe this is true for positive emotions.)

Emotional control or management is considered outside of one's control by many because of the speed at which they occur. (Emotions on a structral level are a gestault of K and A.) Emotions are anchored responses.

Many believe negative emotions are what is "actuality" instead of a response created by one's internal reality.(disclaimer- I'm not sure they believe this is true for positive emotions.)

Many feel (believe) negative emotions are true comments about what is. In other words they precieve negative emotions as the destination and they ususally take one's attention from that which one is going for.

Few realize or have come to see emotions (both negative and positive) as only indicators of where one is in relationship to where one wants to be. Emotions as mile markers and distance signs along the highway to let one know how many more miles they have to go.

Many have difficulty in regards to emotions because of their definition of what the purpose and place of emotions are...

What if there were only two emotions Feels Good and Feels Bad? (Not good/bad, right or wrong only feels that way.)

What if emotions were a Universal Positioning System that everyone has that lets them know how in touch or in line with their true being they are?

What if emotions were there to point to which direction one's Inner Being really is?

What if emotions let one know how quickly they were going to get what they want as well as what they don't want?

So it may be a matter of belief change in regards to emotions. Then it may be easier to accept any emotion without resistence and use the emotion in relationship to where one truely wants to be. (instead of having the emotion use us and keep us from where we want to be.)

To Your Best,
Doc

"Having sex is like playing bridge. If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand." My Grampa Vetter

[tommyvan1]

I did not mean to affend anyone by saying non- professional. I simply meant that most people don't look for help until something is wrong. I now realize that many of my previous thinking and coping patterns were unhealthy and had I sought psyco or hypnotherapy prior to my current situation I would not now be in crisis.

I have an appointment with a hypnotherapist here in my area for the 3rd of January. I plan to tell her what I can in as much detail as I can.

I have always been able to handle emotions and feeling rather well(so I thought) I am not apposed to feeling hurt or sad or anger. However, at the point where I am now I can not let go of an event. It involves disappointing actions by my spouse. Not an affair but close enough. In the weeks following this discovery I went emotionally nuts. My former ways of dealling with problems were gone and this thing consumed me. We are reconsiled and my logical mind knows that this is not as huge as I made it. However, during this period of anguish I think I attached emotional baggage to many memories and activities. I have gone from a confident independant person to an emotional mess. My therapist said she wants to release the emotions from the event. My question is is we release the emotions from the event or subsequent events will that free up the memoris and other events.

I read a great article from hypnosis.so.uk that explains how many times after a trauma we unknowingly hypnitize ourselves and place negative emotions or fears into our sub conscious.
I feel this is what I did and now even though I can remember the old confident me I can't stop the sadness and worry

[tdiamond]

have you pretended to be the person you were?

[tommyvan1]

Tdiamond I dont understand

[tdiamond]

do you remember this "other" person that you were?

Do you remember being self confident and coping.... remember love before loss?

If so you havent lost your way.. practice feeling those things..breath in and feel love... find your way to it.. pretend if you must.. and keep pretending..

cast your eyes up and your shoulders proud..move with confidence..

These things will help as you move forward.. do it.. it works.. all the time..
do it now and see how you feel.. smile.. now and hold it for a moment..
be courageous...your mind knows how to heal... right now....

let me know how it goes..

[tommyvan1]

Diamond
I do remember. Your advise is great and well accepted. I love my wife and for the first time in forever I am truely committed to this relationship. I want us to be champions in each others lives. Before I would just be angry and not deal. Now that is not the case. I am hopefull that my therapist can help me release the negative emotions so that I can give forth the effort that is needed to fix the problems. I spend alot of time being upset and angry and just wanting to bail but my true feelings wont let me. It's amazing how you question your own sanity when you find out that your natural coping mecanizms no longer work.

[Merlin]

Tanja,

At issue is not the emotion, but rather the effects of those emotions on our physiology.

[tommyvan1]

Merlin
I have read many of your replys and respect your insite. What are your thoughts

[Merlin]

My response to Tanja was to explain why we reframe.

Often, after we reframe the event, the mind will apply the new information, reinterpreting all the other (subsequent) events in light of the new meaning (reframe).
A practitioner may also ask the mind to reinterpret all of the related events.

The reason it may still not reinterpret all of the events is that the one you are reframing may not be the specific event on which all the others are based.

Many practitioners believe it is best to find the initial event.
Finding the initial event and reframing it means that a similar future event will not have the basis for being interpreted as a problem.

This early event in some peoples lives is thought to be the reason two people may experience the same thing, one having PTSD, the other not.

[tommyvan1]

So in my instance, say the practitioner decides to reframe the way I interperate the relationship my wife had. If that isn't the core issue then all the subsequent event may or may not change meaning.

[skip]

Tommy,

For me, a lot depends on where you are now, and where you want to be in the future.

I was once told, in a similar situation, that for me to get the outcome I wanted, I was going to have to forget 'the past', to let it go. This was by a well meaning non-professional.

I was also told similar by a professional.

I found it very difficult, if not impossible to do, instantly, as was apparently indicated.

As it turned out, I didnt get my outcome, and whether, or not, I would be able to 'just let go' became a moot point.

Im glad it turned out that way. Not so much the outcome per se, but that I couldnt just 'let go'.

Now I wouldnt.

And I would tell professionals, and non professionals, to go straight to hell if they offered me that advice again. I might not say it out loud, but I darn sure would feel it.

Now did I like it? Did I enjoy the fact that everything tasted like cardboard? Did I relish the 'flight of thought' (a psychological term for chains of thought that you cannot stop reviewing over and over)? Did I enjoy the feelings of rejection and uncertainty?

Only a fool would want that! Right?

Except that I honestly believe that I am better today for it. And without it, I wouldnt be where I am today. Nor would I be who I am today, and associating with the people I now associate with.

In other words, the roads I have traveled, with all their twists, turns, rocks, hills and valleys; are what has gotten me here today. And I happen to like where I am, and where I am heading. And I owe it to each and every bruise along the way, as well as to all those excellent times too.

And you are right, those experiences have changed my perspective on a lot of things. Many things will never be the same. And my experiences continue to shade my perceptions today.

I dont know if you have realized it yet, but I became considerably more human as a result. Something I consider a positive. And even if the labor pains were a bit rough, I like the results of the rebirth.

Now you have come thru a crucible. And it wasnt easy, and your future may still be very challenging.

But all in all, dont you feel that you really are better for it? Has it not opened your eyes to a completely new perspective? And even if that perspective isnt as innocent as the one before, isnt it one based in more wisdom and compassion?

That has been my experience. And it is one that either has been, or can be yours, as well. All it takes is a commitment to learn from your experience. To squeeze every bit of knowelege and wisdom that can be garnered from it.

And just as some of the things in your recent experience could not be rushed, perhaps it is best that some of these painful things fade in their own time, as they surely will. You can let that occur, safe in the knowelege that the lessons learned, will be forever bright, and sharp, because of the tempering aquired thru the emotional fires.

cheers,

skip

[Merlin]

I cannot answer for the speciifics.
The practioner you go to is the one to ask.

[Docresults]

Tanja,

At issue is not the emotion, but rather the effects of those emotions on our physiology.

Merlin,

How is it and why is it that emotions effect our physiology?

Is it because of the physical sensation involved with an emotion or is it the meaning side of the emotion we have attached to the physical sensation?

(In other words what keeps the loop going the thought part of the emotion which is concerning the past and the future or the body sensation which is only concerning the present "now" moment?)

You are correct if one is going for remedial change then work to reframe the meaning of the emotion in this case. However if one wants generative change reframing emotions altogether seems to be a more empowering resource.

Just something to consider...

To Your Best,
Doc

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. Have you ever noticed that it bears a very close resemblance to the first?" My Grampa Vetter

[Merlin]

I don't know the specifics of how.
Those of us who have worked with, cancer, diabetes, ALS, etc. have found emotions to be at the root and reframing the emotions resolve the need to cancer, etc. and so the person stops cancering.

It works.
I can't say how the mind & body connect

[tommyvan1]

I am in agreement with the lessons learned and I am much wiser for it. However, I fear that my emotional break downs are not normal. The only time I feel close to normal is when I get myself angry enough to not care. As you can see this way of dealing with a problem can not end well. I am trying to let go, trying to forgive, but my defenses keep boiling up this anger and I don't want to be angry any more. I dont know how to act or what to focus on because in my mind everything must have been wrong to cause her to act this way. In reality it was just a friend and I spent too much time gone. I wish to release this emotional baggage so I can embrace the lessons learned and create a healthier life for both of us and our children. The emotional scarring won't let me find that balance,

[Don]

Tommy, I realize you want to keep your anonymity here. Many people with questions do (although I never quite understand why since nobody here knows anyone else. I have only met two people on this board. But that is simply the phenomena and not part of this issue.

But as I stated, we cannot supply specific answers. We cannot diagnose or give treatment suggestions. Your posts are an example for this policy.

You see, as you slowly add more information, we get other issues. You now say that you are having "emotional break downs" (whatever they are), get very angry, are trying to let go (of something) and--here's the key for me--"trying to forgive."

Now, I don't know who or what it is you are trying to forgive. Since you have not given enough information, since I can't question you, since I can't observe your body language and responses, all I can do is make wild guesses that may or may not have any basis in reality.

So let's just assume that my reply here is not about Tommy, but it is "Mister George" who is slowly revealing what is taking place. Now, this MG comes to me, initially saying that something horrible happened to him and he needs to get over it. Well, that is something that hypnotherapists deal with all the time. I know I can deal with it, although I also know that there may be other issues involved.

However, when MG gets here the story changes. It's not just a horrible thing that happened, it's that he discovered his wife cheated on him. She promises it will never happen again, but he feels angry all the time and just can't let go of thinking about it and even though she's promised never to do it again, MG just can't forgive her. All he can do is focus on the other person, his wife, and what they did.

You see, now there's a new situation. It's not just about MG, it's about MG and his wife. It's about their family and their relationship. To my mind it's more encompassing than just MG's getting over what happened.

It's not just MG's problem, it's that MG and his wife are having problems. They are not giving each other what they each need. They are not communicating well. Her cheating on him and his inability to deal with his emotions are simply manifestations of those real problems.

So when MG came to me saying he was trying to get over something, this is what we hypnotherapists would call a "presenting problem." And the question to me, as a hypnotherapist, is this: do I help this person to cover up this issue in his life and "get over it," or do I really help him resolve the source of the problems?

In my case, I always choose the latter. So when I learned the real sources of the problem after MG came to my office, I would do hypnosis with him to help him relax and calm down. However, I would make very clear that this is not his problem, it is their problem. I would suggest that MG and his wife get into marriage counseling immediately. I would also offer to work with both him and his wife and stay in contact with their counselor. I would tell MG that what I was doing today was merely applying a splint to a broken leg. He needs surgery and a cast.

I would also stress that if he and his wife are willing to do work and be honest with each other, they can get over past problems and have an even better, more fulfilling relationship than ever before.

Now, I don't know if this has anything to do with your situation. But what I want to make clear is that we cannot diagnose or treat over the internet.

I can also say that although you may feel terrible at this moment, getting the proper assistance can help you get through this quickly. I'm not talking about years, but rather just a few months. Help is at hand.

Please let us know what you do and share how well it works for you!

[skip]

tommy,

This will sound trite, but there are a lot of beliefs stated in there, that will help prevent you from gaining from this.

I am going to ask you, "What is the downside of getting angry over this?"

Do you not have a right to be angry about some things?

Is not anger an appropriate response to some of the things that have happened to you?

You are not a doormat.

There is a vast difference between getting angry, and staying angry.

And there are all sorts of ways you can manifest that anger, and use it constructively, but that is another subject altogether.

My question to you is, why shouldnt you have some anger? What specifically is incorrect about that, besides political correctness which is a crock of bull anyway?

skip

[Docresults]

I don't know the specifics of how.
Those of us who have worked with, cancer, diabetes, ALS, etc. have found emotions to be at the root and reframing the emotions resolve the need to cancer, etc. and so the person stops cancering.

It works.
I can't say how the mind & body connect

Merlin,

I totally agree with you. Those of us (speaking of me) who have worked and continue to work with any form of diease (physical or mental) have found using hypnosis/NLP, Shallow PEAT, EFT it is extremely easy to reframe an emotion and stop the behavior.

It does work and even if you can't say consciously how the mind & body connect there is a structure you are working with you may not be aware of. Physical symptoms emotional roots is the structure.

When one reframes emotions themselves (all emotions-not just the one causing the disease or discomfort) on a belief level not only does the patient/client stop a particular behavior (cancering, etc.) they can stop any behavior as the (unwanted) charge that emotions used to have are no longer present. Then emotions are no longer at the root (roots) so to speak and can flow (as energy) just as everything else does in it's own way.

Please consider learning the specifics of how emotions do what they do may increase flexibility and success rate. (Create your own model so you can test it and refine it.) It is a great learning process and pretty fun.

To Your Best,
Doc

"There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal,
particularly in women. Chief among these is the Mercedes-Benz 380SL." My Grampa Vetter

[tommyvan1]

If you read my further responce you would find that your scenerio was some what close to mine. I greatly appreciate your input on the matter and agree. All of these things are being put in place to solve the core problem. However, let's suppose that the hypnotist does indeed help MG get over the emotions that are attached to the affair. He could then more effectively work with his wife to resolve the core issues without all of the set backs that extreme emotions bring. Would he not also be better equipt to trust that his wifes attempts were in good fatih?

The original question was, suppose after MG found out about the affair he was so emotionally charged that he connected these emotions to many memories from the couples past. Memories that couldn't possibly be related. After all of this negative programming he finds that he is deppressed and hurting, when his relationship with his wife is actually stronger than it was before. Wouldn't removing the emotional impact of the event also free up the memories and give him a better chance to deal logically with the problems.

[tommyvan1]

When I am not angry I am extremely sad. I think I have used anger to escape fellings for to long. The anger is not a healthy anger. It is anger used to not feel sad. It has been 4 months and I am tired of being controlled by my emotions. They are truely getting in the way of the healing. Not being able to find joy in anything is proving quite detrimental to the relationship. The crime doesn't fit the punishment or (emotion)

[Poodle]

Does your hypnotherapist also know NLP or did you even think to ask?

[Poodle]

I will probably side with Merlin on this one as I "think" I know where she is coming from. There is a lovely NLP procedure "The Healing Paradigm" which is for physical pain or UNWANTED EMOTIONS. It is actually done in an "officially induced trance". If it happened to fail, which I don't believe it would, I would then use TLT Parts Reframe and Release of Negative Emotions. Now that will make Tommy feel better BUT will it salvage the marriage. The fun part with the TLT would be breaking down ALL the problems as every presenting problem has a whole subgroup of problems which has an even larger subgroup of problems until we get it ALL.

I know the road that Skip found but I really wonder how many people would try that road even though it is the very best road.

[Don]

Tommy, if we could solve emotional issues by thinking logically our world would be entirely different. Our emotions will work as they will work. Often, people will change their logic to support their emotions. Emotions are related to the unconscious which is why hypnotherapy can work so well to help people with emotions.

But here's the thing. In the case of MG, the infidelity and MG's response to it are only symptoms of deeper issues. For MG to think that just feeling better about the symptom will help dealing with the cause is like saying giving a person sun tan lotion will help with the 3rd degree burns. At best, it will only cover it up and make it more difficult to work with.

But once again, this is all hypothetical and based upon incomplete information and almost complete lack of feedback. I repeat that if a couple has one partner cheating, IMO they should get into couples therapy if they want to support the relationship.

Now, if MG wants to get out of the relationship, there are different issues. It's just too much to work with on forums such as this. It needs real, in-person assistance.

[skip]

When I am not angry I am extremely sad.

If I were to undertake helping you, one of the things I would do is ask you how often you are forgetting to feel either one of these? Even if just for a moment or so, until you realize it, and return to feeling angry, or sad. See anger takes a lot of energy to run, and you cant sustain it over long periods. And often you simply forget to be sad. And when you are too tired to feel angry, and forget to feel sad, you DO feel other things. The real question is do you notice, and when you notice, do you notice that those times are increasing in frequency and duration?

See this phenomenon occurrs. You cannot prevent it. So as a therapast I would take advantage of this natural fact, I would set you up for success, and ask you, to begin to notice when it is happening, unconsciously, and bring it to conscious attention.


I think I have used anger to escape fellings for to long. The anger is not a healthy anger. It is anger used to not feel sad.

You cannot help but feel something, even if it is just exaustion. But Ill accept that you have been using anger in this way, now you might want to consider using it for another purpose. And there is no such thing as healthy or unhealthy anger. Anger is something you do. And by doing it you achieve results. Those results can be healthy or unhealthy for you. It isnt the anger, it is what you are using the anger to accomplish.

Personally I like to see the anger in my clients who come to me for this sort of thing. And I'm not talking about anger spilling over into acting stupidly. I am talking about moving from the 'shocked victim of a train wreck' response to one of "Hold on there a cottin pickin minute! I am a person, I have dignity and worth, and I will not accept this treatment. I may be hurt, I may be confused, I may still be in shock, but I am not a piece of crap to be scraped (figuratively) off someones shoe, after being eliminated and stepped on."

See tommy, I dont know if you can feel it yet, but the anger is moving you. I think that is a good thing, and wouldnt stop it for the world. The only question is moving you where? And that is a destination you can consciously set, and continue to focus on. And if you choose to do that, the anger 'becomes' "good anger" in that it is taking you where you want to go. Now it wont drive you all the way, because as I said anger takes a lot of energy, and it will eventually exaust you. That is why in the mean time, you figure out where you want to go, and build desire around it, to take over for the anger as motivation.

You havent done that yet. I suspect you dont know where you want to go yet. So you tend to flounder, and my friend, that IS depressing.

Can you easily tell me, in some detail, right now, what you DO want, instead of what you dont want? If you cant, or if you have to really think about it, you can realize that it is time to begin figuring out what you really do want.

Now this woman hurt you. She hurt you bad. BUT you need to realize she had her reasons. I am not excusing her. I am just telling you that feeling abandoned and betrayed over a thousand sleights, over time, is still feeling abandoned and betrayed, just as if it was all at once.

The point I am making here is simple. Your grief, over the death of your dream. (the life you imagined together), is probably no more profound than her grief, over the death of her dream, of your life together.

Neither of you can go back. That dream, both hers, and yours, is gone. Now apparently she is willing to try and establish a new one with you. And if I understand you correctly, you are willing to try and establish new one with her.

OK so you both have a chance, and are taking a risk. But you both must realize that each of you is starting from where you are.

And you must realize that she is ahead of you emotionally. She did her hurting and grieving before she had the attraction to someone else. And if you think about it, you can probably recall when, and for how long, that was. It for damn sure wasnt a momentary thing.

She died the death of a thousand cuts, you got hit by a truck.

BUT you both lost, and grieve, over the same dream.

Now if you can understand that, you can perhaps be a bit more forgiving of both yourself, for not being able to instantly 'shake off' these feelinfgs of loss and betrayal. You can realize that she didnt 'drop you' like you were nothing. It took her a long time, and a lot of heartache to do it. So you might be able to be a bit more forgiving of her.

Not excusing her behavior, but understanding that affairs (consumated or not) are the result of a long term process, a symptom of the problems in a relationship, not the problem itsself.

It has been 4 months and I am tired of being controlled by my emotions. They are truely getting in the way of the healing. Not being able to find joy in anything is proving quite detrimental to the relationship.

So what is your realistic expectation of where you 'should' be, and where the relationship 'should' be, after 4 months?

I know 4 months in hell is a long time. and if there is a hell on earth, this is probably it. Hurt, confused, betrayed, and uncertain outcome. That is a bad rap all around.

So what, of that, could you reasonably expect to change? And what of that can you have some influence over? You cant unhurt, you can only heal. You cant undoo the betrayal, you can only accept it as an unhappy part of your history, and let it fade as all those other unhappy memories do. You CAN gain some clarity, and you CAN set realistic outcomes and work towards them.

I would suggest that you do what you CAN do, and the more you do what you can, the more you will discover that you are forgetting to hurt.

I wouldnt want it to go away all at once. If it did, would'nt it tirvialize, what is IMO a profound experience in your life?

cheers,

skip

[Merlin]

>Please consider learning the specifics of how emotions do what they do may increase flexibility and success rate. (Create your own model so you can test it and refine it.) It is a great learning process and pretty fun.

Why would you assume I haven't?

[tommyvan1]

That is the most amazing explanation I have ever gotten. I think every thing you wrote hits the nail on the head. I am thinking hard about what I want next. I am going to show her this in hopes that she can see why I can't just get over it. As for me I am going to print this out and keep it with me until I figure out what the new dream is. If a new dream can even exsist.

Thank you
You are really good

[Docresults]

>Please consider learning the specifics of how emotions do what they do may increase flexibility and success rate. (Create your own model so you can test it and refine it.) It is a great learning process and pretty fun.

Why would you assume I haven't?

Merlin,

You wrote in your own words from the post I was answering...
"I don't know the specifics of how.
Those of us who have worked with, cancer, diabetes, ALS, etc. have found emotions to be at the root and reframing the emotions resolve the need to cancer, etc. and so the person stops cancering."


My original post was about the specifics of how emotions do what they do and you started your reply with "I don't know the specifics of how and then go on to talk about what you do know about reframing emotions. (I also got the implication in your writing that I'm not one of those who work with cancer, diabetes, ALS, etc. or that I know very much about emotions.

So far all you've talked about is reframing an emotion and if you can't recongize another model it has the indication and implication that you may only have one way of doing something. (that you look at emotions a certain way and only that way.)

SO....

Other than words from you own hands that presumably came from your mind and would have come out of your mouth if we were discussing this in person, I'm not sure WHY I WOULD ASSUME you have or haven't.

Help me out here. What is the specific model you have learned that show you how emotions do what they do? What is the structure of an emotion and how do you work with the structure to create change before you need to reframe?


To Your Best,
Doc

"Bisexuality immediately doubles your chances for a date on Saturday night." My Grampa Vetter

[Merlin]

Thank you.
Now I understand :)

I have a good model which works fine.
But it's only my *model*, not necessarity the actual territory.

Since I do not know the territory, I was just not sharing my map.

I don't know the specifics of how.
Those of us who have worked with, cancer, diabetes, ALS, etc. have found emotions to be at the root and reframing the emotions resolve the need to cancer, etc. and so the person stops cancering.

Sorry for my miscommunicating to you.

[Docresults]

Thank you.
Now I understand :)

I have a good model which works fine.
But it's only my *model*, not necessarity the actual territory.

Since I do not know the territory, I was just not sharing my map.

I don't know the specifics of how.
Those of us who have worked with, cancer, diabetes, ALS, etc. have found emotions to be at the root and reframing the emotions resolve the need to cancer, etc. and so the person stops cancering.

Sorry for my miscommunicating to you.

Merlin,

No need to apologize I'm looking for clarity and perciseness in my communication and to do that it is valuable to understand anothers underlying maps or meta-maps or meta-mask. The beliefs behind the beliefs so to speak.

Words can never describe the actual territory (I didn't know we were talking about territory) and yet the maps and models we use determine results we get. The reason I asked what the model is you were using is because it is all models. The specifics of how is a process model.

Even if you don't know the specifics of how territorially you do have a specifics of how map/model. That is what I was asking about.

I'm sure your map/model works fine and yet that is where you were speaking from. Therefore as a fellow magician I'm asking you to show me how you preform your magic as I went first and showed you how I did mine.

So far I can only guestimate from what you have written the process model/map (specifics of how) you are using is...

Physical Problem usually (many times, often or always) equals negative emotional roots. Reframe (release the energy) the emotion (root) and the physical problem usually goes away. Is that correct? Is this the model that works for you? Is it close? (I've used this model many times. There is nothing wrong with it.)

From my POV it seemed you wrote as to challenge something I has written and that only means a clash of patterns, not people. So I was attempting to find the pattern and speak from there so as to build a bridge to possibly a different way of patterning. Or at least having more choices of patterns (maps/models) to choose from.

To Your Best,
Doc

"If Wile E. Coyote had enough money to buy all that Acme crap, why didn't he just buy dinner?" My Grampa Vetter

[tommyvan1]

I spoke with a christian hypnotherapist. After discussing my issue he suggested instead of reframing the event in question I should undergo forgiveness therapy. This would help me to forgive her for what she did as well as help me forgive myself for what I did to drive her to this. He thought that if I could see these events through the eyes of forgiveness than I would be better equipt to change the things in our life that would keep it from happening again. He also felt that a forgiving soul has no need for anger or sorrow surrounding these events. What do you think

[Docresults]

I spoke with a christian hypnotherapist. After discussing my issue he suggested instead of reframing the event in question I should undergo forgiveness therapy. This would help me to forgive her for what she did as well as help me forgive myself for what I did to drive her to this. He thought that if I could see these events through the eyes of forgiveness than I would be better equipt to change the things in our life that would keep it from happening again. He also felt that a forgiving soul has no need for anger or sorrow surrounding these events. What do you think

Tommy,

Please take this into consideration as well...

From a content frame "Forgiveness" is only one aspect of the whole issue. To cover all the aspects you will want to address...
1) The issue itself
2) Any part(s) of you that may not agree to deal with the issue
3) The first time in your past you ever experienced the essence of this issue.
4) What the future would be like without the charge of this issue
5) Forgiveness self-others-God
6) Addressing the charge of the issue from any other(s) points of view involved in the issue. (Circular processing or Perceptual Position work)

And Tommy btw forgiveness is reframing as is anything that causes us to look at something differently we are reprecieving or reframing how we precieve data or information (a specific incident).

Whether you use hypnosis or any of the other forms of change work out there when these 6 areas are covered in the majority of cases the issue no longer has the charge and hold on you that you do not like.

To Your Best,
Doc

" If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?" My Grampa Vetter

[Terry (existing)]

" If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?" My Grampa Vetter Baby corn perhaps?

[Don]

While I wouldn't put it the same way, I agree with the basic idea that Doc presented: forgiveness is only part of the solution.

1) How will you prevent this from occurring again?
2) What if there are parts of you that are not ready to forgive
3) The situation developed because of habits, behaviors, and needs of both of you. How are those going to change for you? For her?

In my opinion, hypnotherapy is client based and not method based. By that I mean each client is unique and requires specific care and work. That is determined by the needs of the client.

When someone qualifies their practice as being a _________-hypnotist (Christian-hypnotist, alchemical-hypnotist, psychologist-hypnotist, etc.) there is an implication to me that they have a method or methods based on a pre-determined set of beliefs that are external to the needs of the client. In my experience--and from what some people have posted on this board--such therapists push their philosophy and beliefs on the client, and if they fail, they blame the client, adding to any issues the client already has.

Frequently, but not always, such people do not have extensive hypnotherapeutic training. Their training is in another field and they have only taken a basic course or two in hypnosis (if that). I would respectfully suggest asking for evidence of the person's training in hypnosis.

BTW, perhaps the worst example of this was in California where psychologists who knew a little hypnosis, but were not specialists in the field of forensic hypnosis (for recovering memories), induced small children to tell bizarre stories about their day school. The result was the most expensive trial in California history, the destruction of the business, the ruination of the people and teachers running and working at the school, children who will need psychological counseling for years to come, and not one conviction.

[Docresults]

I'm glad you didn't put it the same way I did, cause then you'd be me.

[EC]

docresults,

I spend more time "popping in and "lurking" on the forum than I do writing these days, but I had to comment on your last post.

>>I'm glad you didn't put it the same way I did, cause then you'd be me.<<

You get the award today for funny and creative responses - That's a good one http://forum.hypnosis.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Terry (existing)]

As a Christian, I must sadly agree with Don's sumation, but only when the practitioner claims as Don has said, to be a "something" hypnotherapist. Otherwise, it is difficult to practise anything without having your own personality, and beliefs intrude into how you do what you do. For example, I am skilled and practised in Hypnosis, and capable of performing Faith Healing. If I chose to do both, I would feel it fine to advertise as a practitioner of hypnosis, but when advertising myself as a "healer" I would not suggest a mixture of the two, to me that would be rather tacky, since my work with people of faith is separate from my practise of hypnosis for several reasons.
I say this, because although I am in total agreement with Don's statement, I perceive that it might be misunderstood by some, and wish to prevent any clouding of the issue which is already clouded by the so called separation between Church and State, that caused the banning of Christmas symbols in pubic places during a celebration so obviously in honour of the birth of Christ.
As for the original poster, if you are indeed a Christian, and not just using the services of someone because they cost less, remember, the bible commands us to love our "enemies" not just our friends, and that of course includes all who have offended against us. Christ forgives if we ask with a repentant heart. Of couse, he knows if we mean it, while we lack that ability, so it can be tough, and take time. I wish you well in this matter.:)

[tommyvan1]

I am in deed a Christian and found this person while researching hypnotherapy. I wanted to make good and sure that it was not contrary to the scriptures. I am now convinced that it is not.

I know that the things I am fealing are not of God; fear, condemnation, sadness. These are emotions and thoughts. The Bible tells us to take our thoughts captive. Like many I am having a hard time doing this. In the past 4 months I have taken an issue that should have been a medium deal.(not a big deal)but a medium deal and turned it into a life changing catastrophy.

I have attached all of my memories and past to this current hurt. I realize that some changes needed to be made in our life. But I have gone to the extreme and released all parts of me. Anything that I enjoy leaves me fearfull. I am afraid of missing something.

This is IMO beyond the natural course of emotion. I want to get to the point where I can pony up and say "hey I made some mistakes and so did you. Let's fix em or not"

I just need enough clarity to where I can say "I'm me. Love me or don't but I can't change who I am. Only God can do that" and feel free enough to stand on my own.

I'm hoping that through emotioal reframing I can take the hit by a truck feeling out and just say it is what it is"

[Don]

The late Dr. Walter Martin, author of the classic Kingdom of the Cults--a book still used to define what cults are and how to deal with people in cults from a fundamentalist Christian perspective--founder of the Christian Research Institute and long-time host of "The Bible Answer Man" felt that hypnosis could be of value to the Christian, as long as it did not involve past lives or other entities.

[Jack]

I
I'm hoping that through emotioal reframing I can take the hit by a truck feeling out and just say it is what it is"

You can. Do it now.

Jack