is it possible to hypnotise someone without them knowing?

[tommo]

i have visited a hypnotherapist recently and since then have wanted to find out more about it. The process of being put into a "trance" was (im sure) familiar to many of you, relaxing each part of the body, focus on breathing, walking down ten steps and even more relaxation before starting to re-order thought patterns etc.



But i was wondering if it is possible to influence/hypnotise someone without them knowing, therefore without the, are you sitting comfortably then i'll begin......



Derren brown and the like appear to influence people in minutes without them even knowing (or are these people all stooges that went through the relaxation process before-hand and established mental triggers?)



For example make someone do something they wouldn't normally do without them realising or having much control over it, my friend doesn't like a particular drink and i was wondering purely out of curiosity if it would be possible to make him order that drink completely oblivious to the fact he did or why he did until it arrived. Or make someone do anything and they have no idea why they did it, purely through being controlled without them knowing.



If this is possible i'd be highly interested to know a little more about it and how this is possible

[Don]

Yes, it is possible to hypnotize a person in a few moments.

Re: Derren Brown. You are giving only two options: 1, he uses hypnosis without them knowing or 2, they are stooges. You missed the third option which is the truth: he is a magician who uses tricks to give the impression of influencing people in minutes without them even knowing.

[tommo]

thanks for the reply Don.

What are the specific techniques called that are used to hypnotize people in a few moments/influence people without them knowing. I have always had an interest in psychology and I would like to learn about this topic. I would appreciate advice as to where i should start looking

Many thanks

[solaris152000]

Don,

You seem to be certain that Derren uses magic tricks and not waking hypnosis and such. Although as you are part of the magic circle or have an aoth not to reveal the secrets of magic, or something like that. You cannot offer any alternate solutions as you cannot go into anymore detail other than saying its a magic trick. Now the methods Derren suggest's do work, and are a far more usefull skill than magic. Now lets say that I belive Derren is a real "psychological illusionist", so I (and others) feel inspired to research this topic and we are able to use's the techniques that Derren proposes, for positive methods like anchoring disgust when people smoke. Also we can use these methods to create a truly amazing performence for are freinds.

Now If we belived your argument, that it is just magic. We feel less inspired and "cheated", for you see that I do not watch Derren Brown for entertainment (although I do enjoy it). I think..Wow, how can he do that... How could I do that, so I go on the internet finds derrens site, read it. Discover NLP and anchoring, find this message board and here I am, that is what got me into NLP and hypnosis and such. So I don't care anymore what Derren does, because I no what he Might be doing and I KNOW that I could do that on day to, without having to use magic, and tricks. That is my ambition, and saying Derren Brown isn't real won't deter me.

[skip]

Solaris,

No one that I can discern is trying to discourage you.

In fact I see plenty of people trying to bring you and others 'out of trance'.

I havent seen this Brown fellow since I dont live in God's country but I do know that it probably wouldnt diminish my enjoyment of his show knowing that he is 'entertaining', and not using hypnosis or NLP to get his effects. I enjoyed watching the "Statue of Liberty" disappear, even tho I knew how to do the effect, and knew it didnt go anywhere, it is a common stage effect played on a grander scale.

So please dont allow knowing that an entertainer is taking advantage of your 'suspension of disbelief' to entertain you, to get in the way of your enjoyment.

And Don didnt take an oath, anymore than I did, when I joined the local magic ring and began learning close up, and stage magic, as well as mentalism. Ill bet that there is an amature group close to you, and they are surprisingly friendly and generous people, after they get to know you. He wont tell because it isnt the right thing to do.

And you can relax, about continuing to ask, every magician has been pestered by far better, and more persistant than you, to know "how its done", and you know why they wont do it? Because every single one of them has been performing somewhere, and had an elegant effect ruined by someone who wants to take the easy way to impress, and 'upstaged' them by revealing to the audience, 'how its done'. It is the secret that is the value, and if it isnt a secret, it isnt worth a damn.

Sometimes you can buy tricks, other times you put in time and effort learning the craft, and you reverse engineer the trick, after seeing the effect, or someone will tell you. Sometimes the trick dies with the magician. But rest assured, no amount of wheedeling, whining, or pestering is going to succeed. We have heard it all before.

As to your desire to learn the REAL Jedi mind 'tricks' whereby you can quickly, covertly, influence, or hypnotize someone.

Why would I want to tell something I have paid dearly for, with my time, money, and effort, to someone just because they ask for it repeatedly. especially when they say the intended use is "for positive methods like anchoring disgust when people smoke.", when that sounds like a violation of my ethical standards?

You say you want to learn, to earn, it. Fine you have been told where and how. There are tons of places. But I sincerely doubt that anyone you can find will simply annoint you with it.

Do the drills and get the skills.

skip

[Don]

Tommo, the techniques (and there are many of them) are known as "instant inductions" or "rapid inductions." They can take a few minutes or just a matter of seconds. In some instances there is a "set up" that leads to what seems like a quick induction.

Do you want a simple technique? Here it is: Look a person in the eyes and shout "Sleep!" Some people will go into trance.

But how do you know which people this will work for? What do you do after a person is in trance? What is trance and how does it work anyway?

IMO, the techniques of instant or rapid induction are no more difficult to learn or work than is the technique you experienced (often called "progressive relaxation"). But hypnosis of any kind is far more than simply getting a person into trance. It's all that other information and skills.

Similarly, somebody could tell you how to make a nuclear explosive device. That doesn't mean you'd be able to construct or use it. Nor does it mean that you would have the life experience and ethics to determine when and where, if ever, it should be used.

So I would suggest that you first learn basic hypnosis--theory and practice, and perhaps a bit of history, too. Then, for techniques of instant induction, you could get the video by Gerald Kein on the subject. Just do a web search on him for more information.

Influencing people without them knowing is a different situation. We attempt to do this every day: Will you help me with my homework? Get me a glass of water. I think we should vote for so-and-so...don't you? These are all methods of influencing people.

Are there ways to subtly influence others so that they are not even aware that they are being influenced? Yes, there are. However they take a great deal of time to learn to use effectively, and even then, IMO (sorry, NLP practitioners) are not as consistently effective as some people would like you to believe. The technique involves first developing rapport with another person. That is, getting them to like you. In fact, you want them to like you so much that to a small level, they want to agree with you and be like you. Then you subtly lead them into doing what you want. Doing this takes a great deal of learning and especially practice. That's where NLP trainings come in. They can quickly give you the learnings, practice, and feedback to accomplish this.

However, if you're on your own, I suggest beginning with the book "Instant Rapport" by Brooks. You can also go on to eBay and look up NLP and you will find numerous videos, books, and CDs with information on obtaining rapport (most focus on mirroring and do a bad job of teaching it) and then getting people to do what you imply (most are based on the concept of modeling--what you do they do). And I repeat, I don't think they're anywhere near as effective as implied.

There are a couple of people who use these techniques and sell videos which are far more boring than the titles, usually something to do with "subliminal seduction," would imply. If the techniques actually worked as well as the advertisements that sell them, these people could get tens of thousands of dollars for revealing the techniques to a select few.

Skip, as a matter of fact I did take a vow not to reveal the secrets of magic to lay people when I became a magician member of the Magic Castle long ago.

Solaris, Derren Brown has spent his life developing his performance skills and his tricks. He has revealed some of his secrets in his books. Other things he has purchased from others.

The success of a magician totally depends upon the secrecy of his methods. He has chosen not to reveal how he does them. For me or any other magician to reveal the method in a public forum and to non-magicians would have the effect of depriving him of his livelihood. I will not do that.

Please be aware that the revelation of magic tricks is not the function of this forum. I have deleted another thread where you were asking for this. If you want to discuss magic tricks, go to http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/ where magicians do talk about effects. Be aware, however, that this is primarily for people who are familiar with magic tricks, and unless you are willing to learn magic it is not likely that they will reveal secrets to you there, either.

[Merlin]

Yes, it's quite easy to hypnotise someone without their knowing.
Obviously, the relaxo-babble isn't how ;-)

>my friend doesn't like a particular drink and i was wondering purely out of curiosity if it would be possible to make him order that drink completely oblivious to the fact he did or why he did until it arrived. Or...

Yes. But not many know how.
Most trainers believe it's impossible, so that's what they teach. And so, most will say it cannot be done.

>...i'd be highly interested to know a little more about it...

Of course you would :)
But it's a fine art, not something easily taught over the Internet.

[tommo]

Thank you everyone for your replies. They have been very encouraging. I can't speak for Solaris (although he may agree with me) but i wouldn't insult any of you enough to expect you to hand information over the Internet, or workings of "tricks" or even advanced psychological techniques. I understand totally why its vital to not let any random people into the working of what is a an art even a science. I know from experience from learning many street magic tricks that amazed me that the value IS in the secret.. I was amazed by the "Marlo Snap Change" for those of you who dont know what this is a selected card held in your hand completely changes in a click of your fingers. But once i found out how it was done i almost lost interest in it, it was so simple. I would never tell anyone how it was done because they will lose a lot of enjoyment from seeing the trick performed afterwards and so would everyone else that they told the secret of the trick to (perhaps).



However i wouldn't deter people from finding out if they wanted to, and thats all i am asking for really (i'm not saying any of you have been unhelpful, in fact you have already suggested a book which will be a great starting place) i'd just like to say thank you and if anyone one else has other suggestion for where i can start my search in learning IMO NLP techniques it would be more than helpful.



Thanks

[Persuasion Skills]

Have you heard of pace and lead?

This is a great way to start to move people into trance states- this is my covert version

You use a number of pacing statements that you know are true

As you sit here (pace)
Reading these words (pace)
Thinking about learning rapid hypnosis (pace)
You can begin to get ,more curious (lead)

To do this in conversation use truisms as your pace you can make it sound very natural

EG if in the pub

This is a great pub (pace)

The barmaids pretty (pace)

The musics great (pace)

I know we are going to have such a good time tonight (lead).

You cycle through the process again reducing the processes and
invcreasing the leads

You can also use spatial anchoring, and embedded language to make the
process more effective

There is more info on my site in the articles section, and I cover techniques in detail in my monthly newsletter

Have fun tonight in the pub!

Marc
http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/ (http://www.persuasion-skills.co.uk/)

[Merlin]

Most hypnosis/NLP techniques don't lend themselves to Internet learning. It's kinda like you need to build the house one brick at a time.
Sure, we can explain the roof, we often do here.
but without the foundation and walls, the roof doesn't work and the whole thing collapses.

As for your learning NLP, if you learn easily from books, there's a thread on that subject even now.
My FAQ page also lists hypnosis and NLP books at the bottom.

[Terry]

thanks for the reply Don.

What are the specific techniques called that are used to hypnotize people in a few moments/influence people without them knowing. I have always had an interest in psychology and I would like to learn about this topic. I would appreciate advice as to where i should start looking

Many thanks
Were to look? check out emergency people such as ambulance drivers, nurses, and many other caregivers, and you will find them using such techniqes without any formal training. It just comes naturally to them as they seek to calm and relax a person suffering pain and discomfort......Terry

[Don]

I agree with Terry.

It's amazing how quickly "Don't worry, you're going to be fine," when spoken by a person in a uniform, can move you from one hypnotic state into another.