Creating online rapport

[Elessar]

Is it possible (e.g. on MSN messenger)? The only way I can think of is by typing in the same way...i.e. similar abbreviations, length of message, font colour, grammar, language, etc...

Its probably the least effective way though I guess because you're down to about 1 of the 5 senses (vision). Does anyone know any particularly effective techniques?

[Merlin]

It's only a problem if you're assuming rapport requires matching/mirroring.

[j0hnny#]

Peter St Cloud deserves some credit for pointing out that rapport can be attained (and perhaps with something superior about it) through having a genuine interest in and empathy for the person you are conversating with... seeing things from another persons point of view... trading places with another persons perspective .... if you realise the importance of this for attaining rapport you might realise why matching and mirroring are helpful techniques.

[starfish]

Peter St Cloud has missed his own point.

One of the key things in attaining true rapport is not only matching or mirroring the external behaviour and physiology, but also the internal state.

Some people may call this empathy or showing interest in some one, or even seeing things from the other persons point of view (good if you work in the visual). And that is exactly what it is. If you can truly see thinhs from that other persons point of view (respect for the other persons model of the world!) AND match and mirror, then it is possible to gain good rapport.

The NLP communication model is a great reminder for rapport, physiology, behaviour and internal state are all interlinked. To try matching and mirroring without thinking of internal state will just be incongruous.

For me, the key thing is not in gaining rapport, but what you do when you have it. What do you want it for in the first place?


Have a great day.

[Peter St.Cloud]

Hiya Gang:cool:



What is Rapport? - Well dictionaries say people are in rapport when they get on with each other and are at ease in each other’s company. When you observer people who are in rapport their body language, breathing and speech patterns match or complement each other, when those outward signs appear it means something unconscious and natural is occurring.



For years many individuals teaching NLP have asserted in order to gain rapport with someone all you have to do is to pretend to be like the other person in someway or fake the outward signs of rapport. In theory this sounds very plausible but it relies on the assumption that the people you’re communicating with are mindless walking tree stumps unable to detect the difference. In practice, matching a person the way NLP teaches is likely to make you appear more of a mental case than someone who is likeable and trustworthy.



Rapport is not as NLP implies a skill for gaining persuasive influence over somebody. It a state that naturally develops between people and is built on empathy, acceptance and being generally interested in other human being, true rapport transcends any medium.



Starfish says in a reply to this topic



Quote – “For me, the key thing is not in gaining rapport, but what you do when you have it. What do you want it for in the first place?” this is a good point.



Whilst writing this reply my friend the mysterious fakir Bungdit Din, seven son of a psychic seer and master miracle worker materialized in a clap of thunder in my cabin after a teleportation spell went wrong, he should have appeared in aisle six of the local supermarket. As he left in a taxi I arranged for him he shouted out of the window “Don’t fake rapport simply do to others as you would have them do to you.”

Regards



Lord Peter Saint Cloud (http://www.geocities.com/peterstcloud)
Simply the best name in first class hypnotic performances (tm)
Named Best UK Stage Hypnotist - 2004 Official

Moderator in training :D

[Don]

Peter, you wrote, "For years many individuals teaching NLP have asserted in order to gain rapport with someone all you have to do is to pretend to be like the other person in someway or fake the outward signs of rapport."

I don't know any NLP instructor who has ever said that. Could you name a few of those who have done this, say just four or five?

What I HAVE heard is that these techniques can HELP build rapport. I have never heard that outward techniques are "all you have to do."

Thanks.

[Annie]

Hi johnny,

> Peter St Cloud deserves some credit for pointing out that rapport can be attained (and perhaps with something superior about it) through having a *genuine interest in and empathy for the person* you are conversing with ...

Precisely *this*.

but understand from my witnessing most NLP'ers at-work, they're exclusively focused on other persons' "Outward-appearances" so they can manipulate them, oblivious to the *real* person inside. How sad the *real* person is discarded in favor of the "techniques, processes & methods".

Successfully rapporting with the *real* person inside, you can (face-to-face) encourage all sorts of people assumed "lost" into living more fully as they choose, oh - people with Alzheimers :), for instance.


Annie

[j0hnny#]

yep, I think I would leave out the 'perhaps' and replace 'something' with 'something obviously' in my original post on further reflection... (this in part due to further comments on this thread from you and others and in part due to Don's persistence on the ethical influence thread, which has snapped me back into a practical reality somewhat)

:D way hey!
j

[Merlin]

>For years many individuals teaching NLP have asserted in order to gain rapport with someone all you have to do is to pretend to be like the other person in someway or fake the outward signs of rapport.

*SOME* NLP trainers Peter.

[Hypno Ghost]

Is it possible (e.g. on MSN messenger)? The only way I can think of is by typing in the same way...i.e. similar abbreviations, length of message, font colour, grammar, language, etc...

Its probably the least effective way though I guess because you're down to about 1 of the 5 senses (vision). Does anyone know any particularly effective techniques?
I don't know if it's particularly effective, but different font TYPES can be tried for embedded commands. There are some fonts that look very similoar to the consious mind, but are supposed to be different enough that they ended up with different names, so maybe the subconsious will notice? It's very easy to change fonts in Outlook Express for E-mails, and the fonts I'd try would be Arial and MS Sans Serif. Use one font for most of the text and the other for the embedded command. I don't know about changing fonts in instant messengers, but some discussion boards accept HTML, and 2 fonts that look very similar when put up on a board with HTML are Arial and Times New Roman. Tried that once and got what I though was a good responce, but im not sure.

[Unregistered]

Peter St Cloud deserves some credit for pointing out that rapport can be attained (and perhaps with something superior about it) through having a genuine interest in and empathy for the person you are conversating with... seeing things from another persons point of view... trading places with another persons perspective .... if you realise the importance of this for attaining rapport you might realise why matching and mirroring are helpful techniques.

considering that There are MANY people out there showing "genuine interest and empathy for the person" with someone who have no rapport with that "somone" to say that doing this is to get rapport is "hit and miss" at best. (and respectfully, many of those people are well meaning therapists)

Jim R

[j0hnny#]

Fair enough.....


though my suspicion now... (and it is precisey that i.e. suspicion) - as I am no expert) is simply that - those persons are not really seeing things from that persons point of view.... NLP techniques I think help alot here.. and that was some of my complaint against St Cloud in the other thread... don't know if this answers your reply satisfactorily as you seem to have a complaint against therapists.... something I know nothing about (not being a therapist or having ever been to one)....

[skip]

Johnny,

Can I interject another view here?

You earlier said; "Peter St Cloud deserves some credit for pointing out that rapport can be attained (and perhaps with something superior about it) through having a genuine interest in and empathy for the person you are conversating with... seeing things from another persons point of view... trading places with another persons perspective .... if you realise the importance of this for attaining rapport you might realise why matching and mirroring are helpful techniques."

Did you ever consider that the interest and empathy are a product of rapport, and not rapport itsself, nor the way to accru rapport? They are merely indicators of this process called rapport. And it is important to remember that rapport is a process, it is something you do with someone, not something you can have, or hold. Rapport is like love, you cannot have it, or hold it, you can only participate in it.

With that in mind, when I think about your statement; "though my suspicion now... (and it is precisey that i.e. suspicion) - as I am no expert) is simply that - those persons are not really seeing things from that persons point of view.... "; I agree we can only have our own experience. BUT our own experience can very closely match that of someone else if we are deep rapport.

I personally have experienced and know a few people who seemingly can read minds. they pick up more information than can be believed. And this isnt hocus pocus, it is "hearing" communication on a different level, and recognizing it.

At one training, we picked up consistantly the emotional state of someone in another room, out of sight, with an intermediary standing in the door way conducting the 'experiemnt'. Now did we pick up on the person in the other room, or did the person conducting, mirror enough for the state to be communicated, or both? I dont know, all I know is we could consistantly, from a choice of four states, pick out which one, the person in the other room was experiencing.

Now that is a product of deep rapport. You simply stated what you experienced, and because you were in deep rapport with the other person, you were in the same state, they were in, because they would lead you to it.

So IMO St Claire was backwards in his statement. You cant have rapport without the empathy, but the empathy didnt bring on the rapport, the rapport brought on the empathy.

When I go into deep rapport with people, I learn way too much about them. AND the majority of it is communicated non verbally, although people in deep rapport will tell you things they cannot believe they are telling, even as they tell it.

I hope that makes some sense,

skip

[j0hnny#]

Very nice... :) nice feedback.... there are some subtleties going on there I'm not sure have to be put cart before horse or horse before cart... rapport can be seen as something attained..... if you are not in it your relationship is without it..... if your relationship is without it for a while then falls into it - you could say that the relationship attains it.... it is fine thing to point out that rapport is not possession of an individual... and empathy belongs to one or other in the relationship so could be conceivably described as the possession of an individual. Does this have to be there before? or only comes after.... what exactly is rapport?Seemed reasonable to me to think standing in the relation of rapport with some other will depend to a certain extent on my interest and understanding of their ends (or some ends pertinent to the relevant situation)... participating in them actively...perhaps... though, when I think about it, what you say makes sense... perhaps the participation in the means and ends is the key to their understanding.... I can certainly think (whilst I sit here) of a few instances where this fits nicely.. perhaps in a great many if I really think about it....

Cheers Skip.... will digest that post as I think you may have exposed some subtle wisdom to me there....

:)