Cancer food for thought

[skip]

Just recently we had a discussion about cancer, causes and or cures.

This TV infomercial caught my eye the other day and so I looked up the lady in question. Aint the internet wonderful!

Check out the website http://www.drday.com/index2.htm

Read what she says about the causes and solutions and then comment.

I know at least two, or so, folks here will like what she has to say.

skip

[Merlin]

Oh good :)
Another fear-mongering Dr. with product to sell.

[Terry]

There you go, Merlin reads exactly the same words as I do, and reads a negative. I on the other hand read something I have an affinity with, and see the positive. Now it has always been my belief that we have been provided with everything we need to live a happy healthy life, and the reason we don't, is because we ignore that which we need for our health in favour of that which we have developed a taste for......
God gave us vegetables, but we preffer to dispense with them, and replace with gravy, so we get both unhealthy and fat.
God gave us carrots, but we choose to chew candy and gum, rotting our teeth and missing out on esential vitamins......
God gave us legs, but we preffer to ride in our cars to avoid the excercise we should be getting in order to live a happy and healthy lifestyle.....
The only excercise many get these days, is cutting the grass in summer, and I suppose we should be grateful for that. God gave us dandylions, and we chose a flat, green piece of grass we call a lawn instead, and it may be that this will save us to some extent. Come on you suckers, mow that lawn. Terry

Oh boy, I love living in a condo...........The gardener does it...........

[Simple Guy]

Hi,

I've not yet gotten to the link to Dr. Day's site, provided by Skip. I've
heard her, though, on radio at least several years ago. She was
speaking of multiple factors, in terms of causation and recovery.
I agree, largely, with what I recall she had said.

It is hurtful, I believe, for anyone here to frame any discussion of
causation in language that speaks of "choice." To do so, may
kick anyone suffering from the affliction in the face, as it can
encourage someone to self-blame themselves at a time he/she can't
afford additional pain.

Terry mentioned dandeloins. We regard them as a pest, though they
have many nutritional benefits sans the chemicals that are applied to
them. I've got to run now. Terry reminded me that my lawn needs
cutting, dandeloins and all. :)

[EC]

Hi Skip,
>>Just recently we had a discussion about cancer, causes and or cures<<

And as I recall (without looking back) you didn't express your "take" on the cancer issue. So come, give. Since you are the resident NLP Pro I would be interested in your thoughts!

EC

[Merlin]

Yup, I saw all the ads for product to buy

[Terry]

Yup, I saw all the ads for product to buy
Yes, so did I, but then I have to wonder. If I had done research, and reached a conclusion which might be a help to someone out there, how would I be able to promote it to them? Nowadays, I could give it out online I suppose, but if I write a book, or promote a dietary cure, surely I need to make some money from it since I wouldn't be able to pay all expenses from my own pocket?
I work for free with the handicapped in several ways, from driving the handiboat, to working directly with hypnosis. I work with friends in the area of illnesses such as cancer, and for free again, but that in no way prevents me from setting up a business and earning say $300,000.00 per year helping the obese to gain back their health and figure does it? The difference would be that the cost of setting up such a business and dealing with hundreds of clients, would be way beyond my own pocket, plus I see no merit in helping the obese for free, while I do see merit in working with the handicapped.

Now nobody else need agree with that attitude, it is after all mine own, but since it is so, why knock someone else who just MAY have found a method that will work for some, and who choosed to make a buck? Terry

[Merlin]

Terry, I do not condemn capitalism, nor do I condemn the page.
If there was a desire simply to get information out, web pages are available for free.
Certainly the Dr. is entitled to profit from her ideas.

I just disagree wih that method :)

[skip]

Hi EC,

Cancer, causes, cures; the gospel according to Skip, any contridictory opinion is blasphemy, heresy, and an abomination.

Cancer is actually a luxury, of sorts.

It used to be that we were killed off by such things as plague, small pox, dysentery, various infections, various parisituc infestations, and the average lifespan was around 35.

Then we learned gradually about such things as sanitation, germs, things like that, and slowly our average lifespan has increased.

And because the things that used to kill us off, dont, so much anymore, other things that never got their shot at us, because we died off too quick, are now the dominant killers.

Cancer is invisible to the immune system. I will be disagreed with, but I dont see cancer as a result of a depressed immune system. People who live very healthy, active lives also get cancer. AND the reason cancer is so life threatening is that it IS invisible to the immune system. Otherwise our body/mind would suppress it before we ever became aware of it, instead of just ignoring it. And in fact, this is exactly what happens most of the time.

Now I dont know if it is a basic design flaw, that cells sometimes mutate, and grow and arent recognized as 'different'. Or if it is really part of the plan, so that we, thru time, gradually mutate, and 'improve as a species', thru the different genetic makeup that eventually survives. What I do know, is that our design does allow for genetic abberations, some of which are benificial, and some of which are not so benificial.

What I do understand is that cancer is a 'natural' event. It is a undesirable by-product of the process, that makes us better as a species.

The interesting thing is that cancer generally affects us long after we have already passed our genetic heritage along, and as such we dont, and wont, as a species, gradually develop immune systems, that will help us eradicate it.

So so much for our basic design, helping us out in this respect.

Are there things that we know directly linked to cancer? I would say yes. Mercury is directly linked to a particularly agressive form of brain cancer. Something in tobacco is definately linked to respritory cancer, asbestous, radiation, and so on.

Is that the 'cause'? Yes and no. Essentially cancer is 'caused' by run away cell growth. Cells with genetic mutations that arent useful, but arent so malformed as to be unviable. Now we get that all the time, all our lives. What 'causes cancer' is the particular combination of attributes of mutated cells. Cells that are unuseful, reproductively viable, and unrecognized as foreign, by our immune system. Anytime you have a causal factor that 'encourages' cells to mutate, you dont so much have have a potential 'cause' of cancer, but you have increased the odds significantly. You didnt garantee it, because other 'conditions' must be met too, reproductive viability, and invisibility to the immune system. But when you vastly increase the number of mutations, you vastly increase the odds, that the other two conditions will be met.

Unfortunately some people forget, that this is a naturally occurring event in our bodies, all our lives. They come to the conclusion that removing the 'increased risk factors' will prevent cancer. It wont. It can reduce the incidence, but it wont end cancer. It does however make sense that if you are engaging in increased risk activity, and you do 'get' cancer, that reducing or eliminating the increased risk behavior, if it can be identified, is a good thing. Not because it will help you get rid of the cancer you already have, but because it will eliminate the reason for the increased cell mutation and further continued potential cancer cause.

OK back to the basics. Cancer is a naturall occurring event. Some of the known causes arent naturally occurring events, but the process of cancer is, no matter what caused the increase in cell mutation.

I dont think we could, or that we would want to stop the process, that occasionally results in cancer. That is how we grow, and evolve, as a species, and I am not in favor of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

The ulitmate prevention solution is to figure out a way to train the immune system to recognize cancer as foreign, AND to figure out a way to get that passed on in genetic information, to future generations. This implies to me, some sort of dna vaccination type of process. And of course it does nothing for the current cancer patient.

Treating current cancer:

Obviously removing increased risk factors, for reasons mentioned. Eating healthy, and learning to reduce stress (because of the effects stress has on the immune system) are all important. But nothing is as important as teaching the immune system to recognize the cancer as foreign. It is immaterial what condition the immune system is in, if it isnt going to mobilize, to fight cancer cells. So a retraining of the immune system is paramount.

Thats the approach I take. Cancer is a natural event in our lives. It has occurred already many times in our lives. That we now might have cancer, we are having difficulty getting rid of, is simply that the three legs of the cancer stool have been met. Mutated cells, reproductively viable, invisible to the immune system. And all our life we have been handling "cancer" because one of the three 'legs' is either missing or we have taken it away. Our body/mind has already dealt successfully with cancer.
This isnt new to our body/mind it is however a novel 'presentation' this time. And our body/mind does know the "feel, and shape, and sense" of every cell in our body. And it can learn to distinguish the subtle difference between what we call a cancer cell, and a healthy one. And when it has that 'knowing', all we need do is relax and allow/assist our immune system in doing the job it knows how to do.

skip

[EC]

Hi Skip,

>>Cancer, causes, cures; the gospel according to Skip, any contridictory opinion is blasphemy, heresy, and an abomination.<<

Rather than risk being guilty of any of the aforementioned, I will just say *thanks* for your thoughts!

EC

[skip]

EC,

Please feel free to disagree or agree as it makes sense for you to so do.

I only said what I did as a humorous attempt to make clear that the post was my opinion, and may very well have nothing whatsoever to do with reality.

I am not tied to it as some are tied to theirs. It makes sense to me in so far as I understand how our body/mind system works, and it doesnt violate the evidence we do have about cancer incidence.

However if a 'better' explanation comes along, Ill happily discard this and cleave to the new. :)

skip

[EC]

Skip,

I "took" your statement in the spirit of humor in which it was intended and if I could have figured out how to put one of those damn smiley faces in my post I would have http://forum.hypnosis.com/images/icons/icon7.gif, oh wait, I just now figured it out.......

I asked your thoughts because I respect your opinion. You were kind enough to give it and I appreciate it.

EC

[Hawkes]

This isnt new to our body/mind it is however a novel 'presentation' this time. And our body/mind does know the "feel, and shape, and sense" of every cell in our body. And it can learn to distinguish the subtle difference between what we call a cancer cell, and a healthy one. And when it has that 'knowing', all we need do is relax and allow/assist our immune system in doing the job it knows how to do.

skipThen how can we teach the immune system to know the difference between these different types of cells? And then allow and assist the immune system to do it's job?

I've heard of hypnosis/NLP/Timeline Therapy being used to treat cancer, but how exactly that i've never heard in detail.

[Terry]

Then how can we teach the immune system to know the difference between these different types of cells? And then allow and assist the immune system to do it's job?

I've heard of hypnosis/NLP/Timeline Therapy being used to treat cancer, but how exactly that i've never heard in detail.
And it is unlikely that you will in the near future......Note that the person Skip reffers to is a medical doctor, and therefor entitled to make definitive statements regarding a cure. We on the other hand, are not, and therefor, anything we discovered that might help, would or could be misconstrued as practising medicine without a licence...

Remember, cancer does go into remission, but most often will return..Working with someone who has been in this state, would likely give clues, but you would need to find such a person, and do the research under the blankets for fear of reprisals from the medical profession unless you were also a doctor..
In theory, such an aproach makes sense, but if I ever find someone to work with, I think I would be loth to give this information out online, too may idiots out there (G) Terry

[skip]

Hawkes,

Essentially I install the "belief" that I outlined in my post, because without the belief I doubt it would be effective.

Then we use hypnotic recall to remember when they felt the healthiest they have ever felt, and WERE IN FACT HEALTHY. And we make this experience more and more vivid, and more and more real. And we 'notice' both consciously and unonsciously, how every cell in our bodies feels, when we ARE that healthy.

Then we use that as a template, to test our bodys current cells with, to determine what cells we might want to keep and what we might want to eliminate. (Be sure the healthy time you choose to recall is AFTER puberty!)

And we continue with this age regression, and future pace it, as who we are, so our unconscious has a specific notion of where we want to be.

That in conjunction with visualizing the cancer cells and the immune system as fighting and killing off those specific cells. The client chooses what ever visualization they like, white knights killing black knights, honey bees cleaning their hive, ants tending and protecting their 'gardens', any metaphor the client likes here will do.

But the truth is I dont know how I do it.

In fact I dont know whether it works at all.

Basically people who ask for my help with cancer are also utilizing other protocols as well. And if I am included in their regimine, and they get better, what did it?

This isnt something people do double blind studies on. Too much is at stake.

So over time you do what feels intuitivley right, and notice if the results improve. After a while you have established a protocol, that seems to be beniicial, and no one is sure of exactly what in the protocol is the difference that makes the difference.

One thing I do know for SURE. Nothing I do hurts, and everything I do strives to enhance and support every other protocol the person is using. Im not there to fight over turf, or to demand that everyone believe my illusion, over other illusions. In my mind that is a guaranteed path to failure.

hope that helps,

skip





skip

[Unregistered]

Hi All

A comprehensive study into cancer and other disease has been done by a medical doctor and his research has been noted and is very convincing. The doctor is Gerd Hamer and his work has been ridiculed by the medical associations and disregarded and even had him arrested and death threats sent to him.
He believes cancer is a cell growth in an area of the body for a positive reason ie breast cancer is an accelerated growth in the cells which the body does to make milk production quicker (the more cells you have the more milk you can make) so the body can nurture and help a person who needs it (not such a stupid thought)
He uses CAT scans and diagnosis to be able to pinpoint the event in a persons life which needs to be resolved to allow the body to return to normal a huge and comprehensive list.

I could go into lots of details but in a nutshell most cancer is actually stumbled on by mistake and is not usually diagnosed from the symptoms the body experiences. The suggestion from a medical doctor as to how the cells will grow and how the person will die in x amount of days is an excellent case of post hypnotic suggestion, Think what better way to get someone into a hightened suggestable state than to tell them they have the dreaded C.Most secondary cases of cancer metastasis is Lung cancer which according to Dr Hamer is a fear of death conflict.

just a bit more food for thought the definition of cancer is an accelerated growth of cells in the body. to take it to an extreme maybe we had better watch out before they class a pregnancy as a cancer because a baby is by definition this.
To see more of hamers work he has a website set up about his work www.pilhar.com (click the english link)
With regards to the herbal stuff on offer something that may get you wondering
When civilised man went to the tribes around the world to spread the good word of the bible they noticed that there were some interesting recoveries by natives who went through a ritual and drank or ate specially prepared herbs plants and drugs during a ritual. Excellent!!! bring the herbs plants and drugs back to the west and cure disease there and so we have medicine, both scholastic and alternative to heal and cure
Just one thought could it not have been the ritual that really made the difference and the medicine just allowed the person the time to deal with it before using the mind to heal themselves?
It is the one thing that I have wondered and thought it might get the grey matter on the forum going
What do you think??

[skip]

I have heard of Dr Hamer, and tried to verify some of the claims made, on both his, and other supporting sites.

Most notably the independant study that is often cited as having been done at a University in Eurpoe was donr in the Chek Republic. Im sorry I cant remember the name, but there was another thread about this, try the search engine. The university in question does have a web site, but offers no information on its medical school. Engineering, yes; Arigricultural, yes; Vetenary, yes; Medcal School, nothing.

I thouht that very strange. How did it do a double blind study on Dr Hamer's work? Why is the study unable to be found anywhere?

I also have to wonder about Dr Hamers theories on the causes of Cancer.

This type of cancer caused by this type of psychological trauma, that type caused by that psychological trauma.

I suspect it would be difficult to find someone who is of any age that hasnt had a large variety of differing types of psychological traumas. Yet we dont see people who 'break out' with simultaneous lung, pancreatic, bone, liver, throat, etc cancers. Perhaps the cancers form a comittee and decide which one will manifest?

Common sense and a bit of legwork on the internet was enough to convince me that Dr Hamer's being ridiculed wasnt the result of some conspiracy.

I have no doubt that our enviornment plays a part in the dis-eases, we experience, but my opinion is that Dr Hamer is beyond the pale.

skip

[Tomo]

I also have to wonder about Dr Hamers theories on the causes of Cancer.

This type of cancer caused by this type of psychological trauma, that type caused by that psychological trauma.

I have no doubt that our enviornment plays a part in the dis-eases, we experience, but my opinion is that Dr Hamer is beyond the pale.

skip I was under the impression that cancer was caused by a long series of mutations in base pairs over time leading to the inability of a cell to die properly being passed on via cell division. This happens for a vast number of reasons, but to say that it's caused by this or that trauma is quackery. Anything that causes base pair mutation is a potential carcinogen including some viruses.

[Merlin]

Hi,

I've followed Dr. Hamer's work for years.
I like *some* of his ideas for a different perspective, I believe it is still incomplete.


I believe that individual cells may not grow appropriately at times, for various reasons. When a group of cells is multiplying too fast, it is called a 'cancer'. The mind-body team easily identifies these cells and removes them from our system.


This abnormal cell growth may be triggered by various things, sometimes environmental, sometimes something else, but the mind-body collects the cells up and disposes of them.
I would not call these errant cells a 'cancer' until they multiply to the point they are a large group and have not been properly removed by the mind-body.


I believe the mind-body is easily able to identify these cells and dispose of them and it routinely does.



Emotions are a wonderful part of our life. Emotions are one of the things that differentiates humans from tables or automobiles.


Certain strong emotions, when they are not dealt with but allowed to 'fester' can interfere with our natural healing and regulatory processes of the mind-body.
How/where a disease or cancer affects us then, can be associated by the kind of emotion.


The solution then, to promote the healing of the body is to help to get the emotion healed.
The healing of the emotions has been shown to be very effective for the healing of the body, whether Cancer, AIDS, Diabetes, ALS, etc.


The answer then (IMO) is heal the emotions to heal the body.


+++++++++++++++


As for herbal remedies, in my experience, it is the expectations, created by the ritual, and not the herb which does the healing.