Multiple hypnosis sessions in one

[nickaus]

OK,
So ive been wondering, The subconcious is like a supercomputer right that can recieve almost 2 bilion bits of information at one time?
So why are we still dealing with 1 and 2 voice hypnosis sessions, shouldnt we be layering on like 50-60 different voices all going at one time?
Sure it would sound like gibberish to the concious mind, But the subconcious would pick it all up and implement it?
So instead of having one session of weightloss, we could have like 40 sessions to fix absolutely anything you desire? For example, Stress, Work, career, Love, relationships all layered into the mix, I mean it wouldnt be entertaining for you conciously to listen to it, But if you mix it in with some binaural it will send you to sleep and you wont need to be entertained , letting the subconcious do what it is designed to do and implement INCREDIBLE amounts of change, not 1 thing at a time.Conciously we only think we can change 1 thing, But subconciously We can actually change everything?
At the moment I have alot of hypnosis audio, And My computer can run about 50-60 windows media player sessions at one time without slowing down, and as the the subconcious mind is like a supercomputer, so it can obviously take every single audio in quite easily if my crappy pentium 4 can handle 50-60 audio files playing simultaenously at one time.I still go into a trance, something is still happening on an unconcious level, despite the fact that i dont understand due to so many tracks making it gibberish, its still picking up the trance and sending me into one?
The subconcious is "supposably" very powerful, Im just wondering why this isnt being done? I mean isnt one voice too small compared to the Incredible amounts of information that the subconcious absorbs?
I mean it was hard to do in the past with tape players and cd players etc, but with new computers and the ability to play lots of simultaneous files, this is very easy now?
Like when we go in a crowded place, we absorb eveything going on around us, but conciously we only filter that which our brain has been trained to ?
I dont see any limitations to this at all, I mean if my computer could handle it, I would be doing 100-200 tracks at once, Surely this is some thought for the future?
Screw the conscious mind, All hail the unconscious!

[Terry (existing)]

Take proper training, practise to become good at therapy, and with years of skill and practise behind you, come back with that question, statement, or whatever it was intended to be. Or perhaps you will not feel it nescessary once you have put in the time to become proficient.
If I could plug you in to my computer, just as I can another computer, I wouldn;t need any skill at all, just a good program written by someone else for general consumption, just as we can do now, but I preffer to work with an individual, and program my therapy to their specific needs, I think they are worth the effort. If on the other hand, you wish to be nothing more than a computer, buy CDs for your programing, it is cheaper, and you are not worth more that the cheapest aproach to change are you? After all, you will be disposable in a couple of years when the better, faster, or more powerfull computers are on the shelf ready for market. Oh yes, when you become redundant, let me know, I collect such minds and turn them into gold minds.:)

[Connie]

Nickaus, interesting question!

I was privy to a similar (smaller scale) discussion just recently. I was at a personal weight workshop, and the hypnotherapist was fielding questions from the audience. A question similar to yours came up. The therapist has several hypnosis cds for resolving various problems for sale. The question was, can I play several of them simultaneously and absorb what I need to to have the beneficial effects? The therapist's immediate response was no, it wouldn't work. They have different inductions and so on. The man in the audience pointed out that that was the therapist's limiting belief and it wasn't his--he wanted to try it. The therapist seemed impressed with that response and smiled and said: Go to it! I want to know what results you get. Please let me know.

Same here. Do your experiments. Let us know how it works for you.

[Don]

Several years ago there were subliminal tapes on the market that not only had hundreds of suggestions being given simultaneously, but also did it at a vastly speeded rate, so you could get many thousands of suggestions per minute.

I never heard of anyone who found them effective.

You may have seen that some people call themselves a "clinical hypnotherapist." The difference between a clinical hypnotherapist and an experimental hypnotherapist is that a clinical hypnotherapist actually works with clients whereas an experimental hypnotherapist may rarely do so. In fact, the experimental hypnotherapist may be a theoretician--he or she comes up with ideas that should logically work. Unfortunately, when the theories are translated to practice, they may not work.

So you have a theory. Fantastic! Now the next step, as Connie suggested, is to do experiments to see if it works. Good luck, and please let us know the results.

[nickaus]

Thanks for the advice, I dont expect to get alot from the results, Im m just trying to answer my own question, Why if the subconcious mind can take in 2 MILLION bits of information at once, would it only work with one voice, Maybe the answer comes down to building rapport, if you dont have rapport the hypnosis becomes useless, I think thats what erickson was trying to say!
Thanks again for the answers, much appreciated, and i think it solved my dilemma.

[skip]

Nickaus,

Just because the unconscious is able to deal with multiple levels, and lots more input, than is the conscious, doesnt necessarily mean that that is the best way to use it to accomplish specific tasks.

I might want to learn to play several insturments. Now playing well IS a deliberate activity accomplished unconsciously.

Would I best be served by trying to learn all the insturments simultaneously?

Or would I be better served by learning one, and building on that knowelege to add additional insturments after I had become accomplished with the first?

See with practice and the aquirement of a skill you not only get there faster, but you can build on what you have learned as you go, and actually put forth less total effort for the same result.

Taking on too much generally leads just to confusion without a discernable positive result.

Your unconscious has learned its multi level capabilities over the course of your lifetime, that is why it now seems effortless. But those skills apply in specific contexts.

Now, you could teach your unconscious to accomplish what you are asking about doing. But if all you want to do is aquire some new skills the fastest easiest way ...

cheers,

skip

[Poodle]

Compound suggestions.

[Simple Guy]

Nickaus,

Just to add a bit to the responses you've gotten on this, the computer
analogy falls short in that computers don't have affect (emotions)
and a blending of states by combining different sessions wouldn't
be helpful, except by chance. Kind of like putting the ingredients
of various recipes into one bowl and expecting to be able to then
create the intended dishes, i.m.o. We're more than bits processors,
us humans are, unless we look at ourselves in a really reductionist
way. :)

[nickaus]

thats an interesting point, But i dont see this as a recipe, e.g combining, I would say that the unconcious would handle each one on a seperate basis,
more like baking 50 different cakes at once, than putting all the ingredients in a bowl.
E.g be able to distinguish between each hypnosis session, Im pretty sure it is that intelligent, well i hope it is, Just like i hope its processing all that traffic around me when im driving, so i dont crash and die!

[Simple Guy]

Nickaus,

Not to sell the unconscious or your laudable interest in this short,
but it's not so much a question of intelligence as it is the capacity,
or lack thereof, of the mind to concurrently hold varying or
contrasting emotions, for e.g. excited and calm. In traffic,
there is much more taking place unconsiously than consciously
to keep you safe, and there a lot of it is informational, as you
rightly point out, not emotional, which is where hypnotic change
often occurs.

[nickaus]

Ok that is also another good point, so someone has to be in a good state to get the change, so i guess you couldnt have 50 good states going on at once...Or could you :)
Hmmm..

[Simple Guy]

Nickaus,

Now NLPers, good ones, know how to stack anchors to get multiple
states connected, but that's not your point. A resourceful state
for one change, may or may not be the same state for another, and
if different ones merge, you've got a hybrid and as with cars your
milage may vary to less than what is optimal.

[nickaus]

At the end of the day Feeling good can only be really put into one category, Which is simply a "Good feeling", So maybe you just need a general good feeling to get the state change, whatever that may be, So if theirs different states that need to be created, It doesnt matter, Consciously we can only have one state a time, I think just a good feeling, will be enough to implement all the changes. I mean if someone tells you "youre beautiful" when youre really angry , its not going to have the same effect as when someone tells you "youre beautiful " when youre happy,calm,relaxed or in joy, When you feel happy its going to make you feel happier and have a large effect on your feelings even more, So maybe just the general state of "Feeling good" is enough to get all the changes, but it can be any good feeling and doesnt need to a specific.Just a good feeling will do!

[Poodle]

Last Friday evening on one person I did pain control, self-hypnosis, insomnia and a weight management reinforcement. It was a very long session but all worked out perfectly well. This particular client is a dream to work with. It is possible to work on more than one issue as you can read, but I have been working with this person for 2-1/2 months. Now, would I advise it for most of my clients? NO!

[skip]

nikaus,

Aside from your failing to take into account that any change has ripple effects, and that every change alters your 'world view' a bit, so that your wants and desires change with them, which might make changing a bunch of stuff, all at once, a mistake ...

All this theorizing isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.

You could keep on doing this for the next ten years and; 1. Never reach a satisfactory consensus and, 2. never get the changes you want.

Is this the way you go about pursuing the girl of your dreams?

I'll bet it is.

Unsatisfactory, isnt it?

Act!

Act now!

Even if it isnt exactly right... ACT.

Because ONLY if you ACT, do you have a chance at success.

Theorizing guarantes failure.

And do not even consider giving me the crap that you think it is prudent to gather information first.

You have already done that. Several times over.

You are waaaaaaaayyyyyy past prudent, and well into paralysis.

And if you cannot recognize that ... well that is a major part of the problem isnt it?

You have investigated, you have thought about it, you have asked people who know, it is time ...

cheers,

skip

[tdiamond]

As interesting a thought as this thread..... is the fact that we wouldnt need even one hypnotic suggestion or healing modality to heal ourselves.

We could heal everything we thought we would need to, in an instance.. if only we believe we could.

[Simple Guy]

Nickaus,

Nah, "feeling good," is not good enough and just won't cut it in the
context(s) of this discussion. Books can be written on why this
is so, and were you to read them, the experience might
be interesting to you, but probably would not be very valuable to
you on a practical level.

[lanepierce]

Hi Nickaus:

An interesting idea. Can we get technical for a minute? When most people in the field talk about how may bits the mind can process per second, the definition of a "bit" is left out. Some talk about 2 million bits per second. Some, 4 million and some, even more.

What we need to agree on is that, in the field, a "bit" is some unit of information. So "a red square" would be two bits of information, "red" and "square". When you chunk down into the actual processing of information in the brain, a "bit" is a bit different.

Just taking into account vision, there are an estimated 1.5 million signals that are transmitted along the nerve bundle that make up the optic nerve (just for one eye). Together, the 1.5 million make up one of the bits of info that we talk about in NLP.

While vision is processed using 1.5 million bits (3 million for both eyes), audition (hearing) uses significantly less and therefore it runs much faster in the brain. The primary function of vision tells you the "what" and the "where" of something. The primary function of audition tells you the "when" - when something happens.

Now, without a doubt, the unconscious mind must actually hear the suggestion in order for it to be acted on. A phoneme is a basic sound that makes up a language. A speaker of a native language will speak about 10 - 15 phonemes per second (pps). Talking very fast would be about 20-30pps. We can understand up to about 50pps. Beyond that, one phoneme trails so closely to another that they are indistinguishable. Basically, math and aristotelian systems dictate a limit as to how fast individual units of sound can be communicated.

So, you can stream in the information very quickly and the unconscious mind can process (hear) it.

You bring up the idea of layering in multiple streams. If the sounds come in together then they collapse on each other and thus may actually change the phoneme. When you break it down, the timing of the phonemes are important. Now, presuming you can be sure you get each layer in with each phoneme retaining its integrity, I think you have something there.

The next task would be rather academic. You need to make sure that each stream in intrepreted with integrity or your sugestions may turn out rather strange. To maintain integrity of each stream you just need to use a different voice for each.

What do you think?

[tdiamond]

Good to see you here lane... great post..

[phill]

Yeah that reminds me of that tri-sync stuff, where you have 3 voices, one in the left, one in the right, and one in the middle, and they talk like Tad and Adriana do sometimes during their trainings.

Hey what they did together actually worked though! (and they rarely spoke at the same time)
But see, the difference between 50 sessions at once, and this is that the 2/3 voices are focused on the same subject (atleast, and with good timing), its just another way to reach your unconcious mind and by-passing the concious filters.

[lanepierce]

And there is something to be said about focus too. The more you concentrate your energy the more rapid you can manifest change for yourself.

[ Hi Tanja. I am usually lurking. Don, Skip, Merlin, Poodle, Terry et.al. do such a great job, there is usually nothing left to be said! ;-) ]

[nickaus]

My multiple hypnosis session seem to have done something, Today I went to the library and rented 12 books, I have not been to a library in 10 years, Infact I havent read a hard copy book in over 6 years, Something happened on a subconcious level, I just woke up, hopped on the bus and got a new libraary card and rented 12 books?
Its funny because i had not conciously thought about it till today, Half the books i rented out i wouldnt say i even like, But i picked them up and got them....
I even walked 5 kilometres back from the library because i "felt" like exercising, again something i wouldnt normally do.

Maybe just chance, I dont know, But hey now i have 12 interesting books to read!

[nickaus]

Ok i am now convinced that this stuff works 100%, In the Mix i had a four sleep hypnosis, Last night i had 4 hours sleep and woke up fully refreshed,
Their is no doubt in my mind that this works now, i cannot have more proof than that, I didnt even hear the suggestions consciously!
I still think bulding rapport is important, otherwise the unconscious will reject the ideas and thats why the multiple subliminal messages dont work, To build rapport, i simply just write the name of each hypnotist and write 5-6 paragraphs on why i love them, then i visualize meeting them, shaking their hand, hugging them and having them hypnotize me.I do this for the 6-7 hypnotists i am using and i dont use hypnotists that i dont like or tracks that i dont like.All of the hypnotists i use and the tracks are ones that i personally love and respect.
Again i dont think this stuff is just as simple as "plug and play", You still need to build the foundation in your unconsious for it to work and have that level of respect and rapport of the hypnotists for the unconscious to really "Listen" and pay attention.

[Poodle]

You may want to contact Connie. I pretty much like the CD her friend made. For me it doesn't produce trance and I'm not really sure it is supposed to but I do get sooo relaxed that I sleep.

[Merlin]

*IF* all you wish to do is dump information, then such a method could work.
Most hypnosis work is more interactive though.