Psychogenic seizures

[ScottV]

My fiancee started having 'seizures' about 3 weeks ago. They turned into a real problem by the seccond week to where I brought her to the hospital. The neurologists ran every epilepsy test imaginable and confirmed that she did not have epilepsy, but that she had psychogenic seizures due to childhood abuse and the recent death of her father. My question is whether hypnotherapy is a good approach for dealing with this type of problem or just cognitive behavorial therapy. If hypnotherapy is the way to go, what can we expect. She has two little girls at home who are very worried about their mother and we are wanting to get the right therapy off the ground, along with the right medicine. Any help would be greatly appreciated on this new and confusing change in our lives.

[Don]

From your post, my guess is that your fiancee is under medical care. She would need to get a referral from her MD, psychologist, or psychiatrist in order to get help from a hypnotherapist.

From your description, hypnotherapy would be a very beneficial and rapid mode for changing her behavior from seizures to something else. However not all hypnotherapists would be qualified to do so.

If your MD doesn't already have a potential referral in your area, call some up on the phone and ask if they've worked with these issues before.

[Terry (existing)]

And did you ask what that meant? After all, you came to a hypnosis board to ask if we can help, so it is reasonable to assume you have done some homework. If I am right, and I base my guess on a knowledge of language, not medical knowledge or knowledge of psycology, you were told in fancy terms that it is all in her head. If this is correct, and you should confirm it, you are free to consult anyone you wish, it is not a medical problem any more...

[Don]

Terry, I think your explanation is correct. Put another way, if your doctor tells you "I'm not going to treat you for this because it's all in your head," you should certainly have the option to find another healing modality.

However--and this is just a guess--if I were a doctor focused on prescribing drugs and someone came to me with seizures. I wouldn't care about the cause, I'd prescribe anti-seizure drugs so fast your head would spin 360°. So I'm assuming she's on drugs and so, needs a referral from the doctor.

Maybe she isn't, but I was playing it safe.

[ScottV]

Yes, she is under the care of a Neurologist and a Psychiatrist. Of the people who have seizures: 70% are epileptic 30% are non-eplileptic. Of the non-eplileptic folks, it can be organically enduced (heart problems/asthma) or psychologically induced from repressed memories (PTSD) or it can also be an attention getting mechanism. My fiancees is Psychologically induced and quite frequent (10 a day). We are meeting with a hypnotherapist next week and he assured me that he can help and has experience in this area. He is also someone referred by our Psychiatrist. My reall question is, what can we expect from our visits with the therapist. He has asked us to make a journal of her anxieties and bring them in.

[Terry (existing)]

True Don, and something that hadn't occured to me. On the other hand, the poster has free will, and if not satisfied with what is offered is free to seek help elsewere once he or she can comfirm that the guess I offered is true. After all, I am not sure that the diagnosis is as I suggested, so they will need such confirmation that there is nothing that can be done within the medical community excepting of course they are recommended to see a Psyciatrist, in which case my recommendations cease to be valid as they would then be counter to the ethics I practise...

[EC]

>> 70% are epileptic 30% are non-eplileptic. Of the non-eplileptic folks, it can be organically enduced (heart problems/asthma) or psychologically induced from repressed memories (PTSD) or it can also be an attention getting mechanism. My fiancees is Psychologically induced and quite frequent (10 a day). <<

And numerous other possibilities....

Just curious Scott, what does your fiancee think about the diagnosis and potential with the hypnotist ?

EC

[ScottV]

She doesn't buy into the whole diagnosis and is in denial about her childhood trauma'a possibly being the cause, along with the recent death of her father. She never spoke to a professional therapist about any of her trauma before. We are both very 'optimistic' about the hypnotherapy potential and are praying for some very real changes in the frequency of the seizures and hope that they will quickly go away. We do intend to cotinue with some behavioral therapy in tandem.

[EC]

Thanks for the response Scott:

Still curious:

How old is she?

When did her father pass ?

What happened to her, or in her life three weeks ago ?


EC

[ScottV]

She is 31, her father took his own life about 2 years ago. She was also abused by her brother for 8 years, between the age of 8 and 16 years old. As far as anything happening when the seizures started, there was nothing going on. We were at home having a few mixed drinks, and she seemed a little spaced out (more than normal) from the drinks, so I suggested that we go to bed. I was awoken to her crying in her sleep. She then spoke a little in her sleep (she asked me if I remembered something, when I said what, she said "this", then went into the first seizure. From there it has snowballed into the problem we have today.

[Don]

Scott, your post exemplifies why:
1) We do not diagnose through a third party. You say nothing was going on but your post implies to me that lots of things--including things you don't know--were going on.
2) We do not diagnose in this forum at all. We can't talk to her. We can't observe her physiological responses to questions. We can ask new questions in response to her answers. It's simply impossible. It's also unethical.

Can you imagine calling a doctor and saying, "I think my mother has colorectal cancer. What do I do?" The answer from the doctor is "make an appointment and get her to a specialist."

The longer you go back and forth with posts expressing what you think is important, instead of getting her to a practitioner who can actually help her, the longer you are preventing her from getting the help she needs.

[ScottV]

We are scheduled to see a hypnotherapist next tuesday. I am simply asking questions because this is all new to me and I have a lot of free time on my hands to explore all of this, since we took some time off of work to tackle this issue. I appreciate the feedback received thus far and am just trying to get a little wisdom before we see the therapist. The therapist is highly recommeded by her Psychiatrist, so we have some high expectations but realistic at the same time.

[Don]

Hi, Scott.

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused by your response that you have high expectations but want to be realistic.

This of behavior as being an electric light. Either it's on or it's off. Her behavior, what you are saying are seizures, it what happens when the light is on. With the help of the hypnotherapist, she should be able to help her mind change from lighting a bulb to running a computer.

"Realistic" is that the behavior will change to something desirable and beneficial to her body/mind/spirit. Were I her hypnotherapist I would not consider the work over until that change was 100% complete. I would equate that with high expectations, not see them as differing.

[EC]

Hi again Scott,

Thanks for the answers. I realize you came here seeking knowledge, not a diagnosis, and I also understand your being in unfamiliar territory with your fiancee's problem. To ask questions is the right thing.....

Many people stumble blindly through this type problem and come out the other side frustrated and often with the same problem. With the way you have described the chain of events, it sounds like you guy's have taken all the right steps. It's admirable that her Psych referred her out to a hypnotherapist and that surely justifies your feelings of "expectations" yet "realism", again, you are in unfamiliar territory.

I suggest that if you guy's are satisfied with all medical testing and her doctors are confident that her problem is not physical, don't stop if you do not get satisfaction with the first hypnotist. Therapist have different strengths and if this one doesn't help, try another. Hypnotherapy beats other forms of therapy "hands down".

Hypnotherapy differs from psychotherapy in that in can accomplish in a few sessions, what a psychotherapist can accomplish in a couple of years. The hypnotherapist will not place her in some metaphysical trance state and convince her how to feel. He or she will help her use the power of her own mind to change if she desires.

Stay the course and please let us know what happens. Comunicating here is a two way street. I for one would like to know the outcome.

EC

[ScottV]

Thanks for the reply. When you say they can use the power of her mind to change "if she desires" - what does that mean? What role does she play in the hypnotherapy? What will she need to do?

[EC]

>> When you say they can use the power of her mind to change "if she desires" - what does that mean? What role does she play in the hypnotherapy? What will she need to do? <<

If her seizures are in fact "psychogenic" (your words), it simply means that the seizures are an expression, a behavior if you will. If that is the case, the therapist may be able to help her express herself differently, in a more suitable manner.

Her role is quite easy and the therapist will explain that before the session. If will be enough for her to truly want help

EC

[ScottV]

Thanks for the insight. I believe that I have my head wrapped around everything. I just pray that we can erase these seizures from our lives. If we can erase the seizures, will it be counterproductive to go to the behavioral therapist?

[Merlin]

Scott,

I would encourage you to seek one therapist or another, but not both.
seek either a 'hypnotherapist' or a 'behavioural' therapist, but not both.
The reason I suggest this is to avoid conflicting directions.
Maybe see the 'behavioural' after the 'hypnotherapist' if it is felt that it is needed.

Also, seek a hypnotist who has worked with seisures before.
Inexperienced people often panic when seizures happen.
During a seizuire, calm thinking is better than panic.

Seek experience rather than a generalist.
Just like a podiatrist is not the best choice for lung cancer, a hypnotist who does 'stop smoking' is not best for seizures.

[ScottV]

Well our first visit with a hypnotherapist today(and he was the one referred to us by our) began to hypnotise her and she went into a seizure. He stopped the session and said that he wants to confirm their diagnosis for her not having 'epilepsy' - which was triple confirmed by three seizure experts through both clinical tests, blood work looking for the prolactin level enzymes created during epileptic seizures and video monitored EEG's. I was not in the room with them so I don't know if he panicked or not. We have an appointment with a lady who has been been doing hypnotherapy for over 30 years and I am trying to confirm her seizure background too. I don't know what to think of the other guy because I didn't see him in action. Very frustrated about all of this, thus far

[Simple Guy]

Scott,

I understand your frustration. Just curious, does your fiance experience
more seizures in the presence of any particular visual stimulation (flashing
lights, etc.)? And please say that the hypnotherapist today erred
on the side of caution and did not use any light machine to facilitate trance.
Hopefully, the neurologists that have examined her
have a focus in their practice on seizure disorders and have also
referred her to a qualified nutritionist.

[ScottV]

She said that he had her fixate on an object in his office, close her eyes, take deep breaths, etc, then she went in to her seizure. Her seizures seem more to come from anxiety or more so when she is VERY tired and she is semiconcious (almost in a subconcious state). They have referred her to a nutritionist.

[Simple Guy]

Scott,

For prudence sake, have her check out the instructions and contents
of all of her meds to ensure that they have been properly filled by
the pharmacist, particularly any that were filled before the onset of
the seizures (errors can happen), and keep all
physicians informed about what each is prescribing.

Best wishes.

[Don]

I cannot diagnose or suggest what happened to her as I was not there, did not meet her, and did not observe. What I can say--and strictly from the minimal information in your posts--is that the hypnotist does not seem to have had extensive experienced with clients who convulse.

Several people here have suggested that you find out if the hypnotist has experience in this area. Either that wasn't done or the hypnotist knowingly or unknowingly did not accurately present his bona fides.

I wouldn't take a car to a radiator repair shop if it had bad brakes.

[Nigel H]

Hi

I have heard of others with physical reactions to apparent emotional problems, so if that is the case you can expect a very good result from the correct form of (hypno)therapy. Clearly you have a plan of action and I hope it goes well for you/her. Time Line Therapy is very effective at dealing with trauma that has left negative emotions and created limiting beliefs in someone's life - there is a forum on this site dedicated to it. A Master Practitioner can take your fiance through a Breakthrough Session that would deal with all the relevant issues, typically within a single day over a number of hours - this can be very effective.

If you are working with a doctor, I would expect you to need a referral, as suggested already to see a hypnotherapist.

This said, I hope you are already on the right track - just filling you in on this as one more option, if the symptoms are created by emotional 'stuff'.

cheers

Nig

[ScottV]

Thanks for the input on Timeline therapy - that is a new one for me. Is that a possible solution for the seizures or just the emotional side of the problem? Does it sound possible to replace the undesirable behavior of the seizure, with something more desirable? If so, what could a qualified Hypnotherapist replace the behavior with?

[Nigel H]

Hi Scott

The idea is that IF the seizures are the body's way of handling an emotional trauma then by using a combination of Time Line Therapy and perhaps Hynosis also (depending on the specifics) then the body would have no need to do the seizures. There are a variety of beliefs about the mind running the body and vice-versa - and I believe they are closely linked, so if the doctor has suggested that it may be down to emotional reasons, then Time Line work (through a Breakthrough Session) can be highly effective at dealing with the issues that create the physical symptoms.

The body can deal in many different ways with emotional trauma and this can sometimes appear as physical symptoms, as already suggested. So deal with the trauma effectively and the physical symptoms can subside also. I was using the fact that the doctor had already suggested a 'mind' approach may be effective and that medical intervention was not considered relevant, or enough in it's own right. Without this I would have recommended seeking medical advice first - and it seems you already have covered the bases there.

Cheers

Nig

[ScottV]

Ok, we went to see our 2nd Hypnotherapist today, and she suggested that my Fiancee would benefit from Touch Therapy to help bring up the dissociated feelings that she has supressed and to possibly get rid of the seizures........Any feedback from the group? Our first Hyponotherapy session was a 'bust' because the seizure she had made the therapist call it off, then this one brings up this therapy which we've never heard of.

[Terry (existing)]

Ok, we went to see our 2nd Hypnotherapist today, and she suggested that my Fiancee would benefit from Touch Therapy to help bring up the dissociated feelings that she has supressed and to possibly get rid of the seizures........Any feedback from the group? Our first Hyponotherapy session was a 'bust' because the seizure she had made the therapist call it off, then this one brings up this therapy which we've never heard of. Scot, concern I can buy but rudeness and negativity, never. You know nothing, yet feel it quite proper to comment on treatment because YOU have never heard of it. You think it proper to make rude comments about the locals who at least have met the lady, something non of us have done, and then ask us for our comments. Well mine are simple, I think you are being extremely rude, that you are completely ignorant of what we can and can't do, and not willing to wait and see. I am an expert in touch therapy as it happens, but never comment on someone I have never interviewed, and I doubt others will be willing to do so either. I intend to cease communcating with you on this matter while the lady is under treatment by others, and I am betting the rest of "the group" feel the same. It is all a matter of ethics and professional courtesy. Well, in all honesty that is the primary reason, the rest is the fact that your comments have pissed me off....

[hypnogeek]

Hi Scott its true one of my aunts had a similar problem after the death of her son.She was way too depressed and couldn't overcome the mental trauma after she took touch therapy she was healed completely.The subconsious mind is a great tool capable of bringing changes whether its physical or mental the emotions are burried deep down inside once they get released you won't have any pentup emotions and you can lead a happier life.just my 0.2

[ScottV]

To all, my apologies for venting on the board (it's 5 weeks of seeing a woman cry around the clock, and trying to make our children understand) that is coming out, not criticism of the therapy profession.

[Terry (existing)]

Scot, if all the venting was done on this board, and not read by your lady, no problem. However, my concern is that you shared your doubts and negativity with her, in which case you did much harm. Remember, the client comes first for all of us, and you are not the client, she is. Be positive at all times as a support system, not negative like an anchor holder her were she is...

[ScottV]

Agreed. The one thing I have heard and read, is that anyone who receives a diagnosis that is 'psychological' in nature, will tend to have a tender ego. So, we have taken all necessary steps to avoid criticism of her, the seizures, the disorder in general. We speak words of encouragement and I never 'knock' any of the therapy sesssions, particularly in her presence.