View Full Version : I'm confused
Daniel
07-31-2006, 12:23 PM
How come Bandler and Paul Mckenna makes hypnosis cd's, enhancement programs etc. if it in most cases doesn't work, because of the one size fit all reason.
As far as I understand they have both made such cd's but I'm not sure. I am open to criticism.
watl1
07-31-2006, 01:42 PM
Hi Daniel
I know a few people that have bought the Paul McKenna CDs in particular and have had success with them. Whilst it is true IMO that one size doesn't fit all, I would imagine that much of the success from these CDs is due to the "household name" these two have become.
Much of it may be down to the placebo effect - if people strongly hold the belief that Paul or Derren's words are going to make them better in some way (due to their media attention and success of their shows), there's a good chance these people will improve.
Hope this helps :)
It makes them lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
relax
07-31-2006, 10:51 PM
How come Bandler and Paul Mckenna makes hypnosis cd's, enhancement programs etc. if it in most cases doesn't work, because of the one size fit all reason.
As far as I understand they have both made such cd's but I'm not sure. I am open to criticism.
I am sure they don't work for everybody. It probably has a lot to do with your comprehension abilities. Some people have a hard time learning anything new, very rigid patterns. In my sharing of some Bandler materials with firends of various dispositions, I noticed some of them would have a short term effect, describe the tangible effects to me, and a couple months later they would tell me they were very skeptical that there was anything to nlp at all.
They'd rewrite their own history right before my eyes...
I have never had "official" training, only vids and books, mostly Bandler. I am not trying to be a practitioner and don't work with people, but I kept count of how many times I 'consciously' observed something or responded to something in terms of nlp skills I've developed. Fifteen times on a run-of-the-mill Moonday, nlp directly affected my mood, the mood of those around me, and my decision making process overall. But there's an unconscious aspect that is, as far as I can tell, always running. Imperfect description of the process that may be, I really dig it.
I suspect it would be all the more powerful with intensive training, but I would certainly add my testimonial to the books and videos, they have certainly had a hugely positive effect on my own life.
Hello Daniel,
CDs do work for some people. It's just that they don't work as well as a one on one therapy session for most people.
Jack
Daniel
08-01-2006, 10:09 AM
> It makes them lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
But wouldn't it spoil there reputation?
Terry (existing)
08-01-2006, 11:00 AM
Daniel, considering how confused you are, multiply that by hundreds and note that nobody is bothering to make a fuss about spending $25.00 for a CD that gives no results, when they feel that spending that money saved them ten times that amount by avoiding going to a live therapist. They assume one method is as good as another, so why complain that they are not suggestible enough to benifit from "hypnosis"? Now personally I can say that of the many tapes I have purchased over they years from seminars I attended with reputable practitioners, NON of them gave me any results, and indeed I found them to be annoying, and have since taped over them to get some use from the product. My personal experience is all I am entitled to state without fear of argument, since that is all I can assert with confidence, so I say CDs don;t work for me, yet I know I am hypnotisable, and can use self hypnosis. The question for you would be, why don't the CDs give results for me, when it is certain that hypnosis does? Can CDs work? of course they can for some people, but fact is, just because they fail to work for others does not mean that those others are not hypnotisable, though they think this and fail to get the help that would give them results. Nobody can say they don't work at all, but certainly it is fact that because they don't work for you does not mean you can't benifit from seeing a practitioner, and therefor I consider them to be unethical as promoted. Why not try them yourself? Why not see a completent therapist as a follow up, and see the difference. That in my opinion is the only way you can solve your confused state.
Connie
08-01-2006, 11:19 AM
I'm still enjoying the analogy of a self-help hypnosis cd as a stopped clock--it's still right twice a day! (Was that you, Don?) Anyway, you all admit that therapists have differing skills and level of competence. Of course you do! Well, I believe CDs are the same. Some are better than others. Better written. Better in concept. Better in execution. Some are exceptional, and guide your subconscious to figure out what the problem is and fix it! Some are junk.
The one I initially bought (hey, best $13 I've ever spent in my LIFE) is working for me. Like gangbusters!!!
If someone buys a hypnosis cd and it doesn't work for them and they write off ALL of hypnosis as being non-beneficial--that's unfortunate. You try a new food and you don't like how it was prepared, maybe overcooked, so you'll never try it again? I'm hoping most people aren't so limited in their thinking.
I was interested that none of the CDs worked for you,Terry. I have a similar problem and think it is because I hyperanalyse CDs and therefore never even get a sniff of any subconscious state since I am fully in consciousness throughout and processing furiously.
And this illustrates a weakness of CDs, in that if it were a live session a competent hypnotherapist would assess my analytical approach and use it to easily enable trance, as we all do. A CD cannot do that.
Jack
Terry (existing)
08-02-2006, 08:24 AM
Quite likely Jack, but I can overcome that when working with fellow members at meetings, while I have never been able to overcome it with CDs even though I have met the speaker face to face before purchasing their tape, so I imagine that most people would do the same, and get those same results. It would be interesting to take a poll of those requesting information, suggesting that they try a tape themselves and report results to us. That way, there could be no argument over results.
It could be that the people who purchase such CDs are not analytical types and have no real idea what hypnotherapy is. Perhaps they are just looking for a quick fix, and who knows, some may find it, if only by means of the placebo effect.
The research I was involved in was investigating that, but the money ran out before any sound conclusions could be reached. However, the indications were tending towards the above opinion. One very famous name was not looking too good, when the research temporarily halted early this year.
Jack
Connie
08-02-2006, 10:08 AM
It could be that the people who purchase such CDs are not analytical types and have no real idea what hypnotherapy is. Perhaps they are just looking for a quick fix, and who knows, some may find it, if only by means of the placebo effect.
You don't believe that any cds can do what they claim, without it being "the placebo effect?" No one gets any positive benefits? I have my own experience (pretty much all I have to go by at this point apart from all the commentary here to the contrary) - and have found that the cds I am using WORK. I'm using a weight loss one, and I've lost over 60 pounds!!!! SIXTY! That's a lot of weight. I was carrying a small watermellon around at the store yesterday, and it weighed about 8 pounds. 8 pounds is a lot of weight! Multiply that by how many watermelon equivalents I've lost. This is a qualitatively different experience from any time I've lost weight in the past--it's so much easier. I'm also using cds for stress reduction, improved confidence, and so on. I KNOW they're working. All of them. These cds are changing my life!
I purchased some cds from another hypnostist, whom I met in Las Vegas. HIS are junk.
As I'm learning more about hypnosis and hypnotic language, I've been listening to my cds with a more critical ear. I also transcribed one, typed it out, so I could study the language. He's using many of the language tips I learned on a recent online hypnosis course. The guy is SMART, competent, extremely careful in his language, and his stuff WORKS. He mentioned at one point in an interview that it took him 3 years to write the weight loss script!!
As I'm learning more about hypnosis and hypnotic language, I've been listening to my cds with a more critical ear. I also transcribed one, typed it out, so I could study the language. He's using many of the language tips I learned on a recent online hypnosis course. The guy is SMART, competent, extremely careful in his language, and his stuff WORKS. He mentioned at one point in an interview that it took him 3 years to write the weight loss script!!
Hi, Connie.
This is exactly the way I use such CDs and scripts! I use them to "borrow" ( :D ) phrases, approaches, and concepts, not to slavishly repeat them verbatim. Then, I can use them when I determine that they are appropriate for a client.
Poodle
08-02-2006, 01:03 PM
First confused, you need to know the difference between NLP and "traditional hypnosis". Since you specifically mentioned Bandler's Personal Enhancement Series, it was not meant to be a "hypnotic" product, but a NLP product. It is IMHO a fantastic use of submodalities but, again, Bandler does have his ways. It is very useful for young people trying to figure out what they want to do with their life and helps their subconscious to come up with answers. It's just plain FUN!
Most hypnosis CD's are not worth any money at all. One-size-does-not-fit-all. That is why in hypnosis we have different inductions. The induction needs to be matched to the client. This is pretty hard to do if you don't know and have not met the client. Some CD's will have a combination of two inductions on them but it still is not going to reach everyone that buys them.
Now we have the case of Connie here. That induction on that particular CD is absolutely perfect for her. Would it work the same on you? Probably not! You are two very separate and distinct individuals.
You drew a strange conclusion from what I said, Connie. I did not say that CDs did not work. I did say that they did not work as well as a live therapist in the majority of cases. I did not say that CDs cannot do what they claim without it being the placebo effect. I did say that some people may have a positive result because of the placebo effect.
I am glad that you lost 60lbs as the result of your CD, congratulations! For every one of 'you' there are many for whom a CD did not work and the weight remained.
You see it is not just a matter of carefully crafted scripts no matter how long they take to write. No script is universal and very few function even in a statistically positive manner. The reason is quite simple. Every client is unique and has a different set of causes as to why they have a particular behaviour. These causes cannot be addressed by generalised suggestions, but occasionally these will work because the suggestions coincide with the causes in particular individuals. Another reason they may work is because of the placebo effect. And finally they may work because the behaviour was already on its way out and just needed a final shove. In the latter case conscious positive suggestions would probably have worked as well.
That you have had a good result is because of one or all of these factors, but it is a sad fact that the majority of CDs on the market today are useless for lasting changework.
Think yourself lucky!;)
Jack
Connie: Would you mind telling me/us what CDs have worked for you? Could you send me a private message in case you're not allowed to reveal publicly in the forum?
I found Bandler's Personal Enhancement series rather annoying. There's heavy use of background music which was very annoying to my ears at certain parts. His visualisation suggestions were vague and left no space for me to think about them so I didn't know how to handle them. I figured, my subconscious mind will probably handle this and I just ignored them. I do not listen to them anymore because of the horrible music (those fake synthetic horns eeek...).
McKenna's CDs wre pretty much ok. I do not know if they've had any long term long-lasting hypnotic effect on me but... his CDs are of the very rare out there where the music and sounds are subtle and appropriate and NOT cheesy and annoying. The best I've got from McKenna's hypnotic CDs so far (that I am consciously aware of), is a few minutes of relaxation while listening to them. Nothing more.
Connie
08-03-2006, 06:55 AM
And finally they may work because the behaviour was already on its way out and just needed a final shove...Think yourself lucky!;)
Jack
Thank you, Jack. That's exactly right, on both counts. :) I was already "dieting" before I heard the cds. But they sure changed the experience from one of struggle to one of ease. And I AM lucky! :D (I always have been. LUCK would be a good topic for another time.)
Evan, I'll send you the link to the website where I purchased the cds. :)
Unreg
08-04-2006, 02:29 AM
I found Bandler's Personal Enhancement series rather annoying. There's heavy use of background music which was very annoying to my ears at certain parts. His visualisation suggestions were vague and left no space for me to think about them so I didn't know how to handle them. I figured, my subconscious mind will probably handle this and I just ignored them. I do not listen to them anymore because of the horrible music (those fake synthetic horns eeek...).
One of the few Bandler products I also have disliked.
(Others rave about them, though, so each to their own, I guess.)
Merlin
08-04-2006, 11:30 AM
Because they make good money at it.
Poodle
08-05-2006, 01:10 PM
I purchased many of these CD's as I wanted to hear what the "patter" was. I found them to be very ineffective and lacking and I don't believe for one minute that it took years to come up with that patter from my personal view point, but they worked great for Connie so there has got to be something there. The induction was a bit unusual too - progressive relaxation to a very short point with a little Ericksonian statement thrown in for good measure. The voice is totally monotone devoid of any emotion whatsoever...not soothing, comforting or anything else. Could be the real purpose is to bore the conscious mind into trance.
Investment in patter usually pays off in one garnering an idea or two for that certain client that will come along in the future.
I know those CD's have helped Connie tremendously and she is one lucky little lady! You go GIRL!!
Connie
08-05-2006, 02:47 PM
The voice is totally monotone devoid of any emotion whatsoever...not soothing, comforting or anything else. Could be the real purpose is to bore the conscious mind into trance.
Wow!! :eek: Double wow. :eek: :eek: That's not the impression I got at all. I got emotion. Compassion. Usually the good parts were not the induction, it's later when he kind of "reverts" to a normal, and pretty passionate voice in my mind. Oh, well. At one point in the "getting over grief" cd, his voice (and imagery) moved me so much that I started getting shivers down my legs and my body was shaking. In the "stress" cd, he starts waxing poetic about the joyful, positive person you are becoming. I found it lovely, and inspirational.
So, here's a question. :) He says on the cds "you'll find it a pleasure to listen to my voice." I DO!!! BUT...do I really? Independently? Or because he told me I would?
Connie
08-05-2006, 03:11 PM
Ok, now I've calmed down and I see what you're saying, Poodle. :D Could be. The bore them into trance thing. :) It's working for me. Nowadays when I listen, I'm just OUT almost instantly. Don't hear hardly anything. Don't remember anything. But I do remember that the voice doesn't stay emotionless the whole time. It changes.
Some of these CDs use a boring, monotonous voice and others are quite lyrical. Over the last year I have listened to over three hundred CDs from a wide variety of sources as part of a research program and the best of them are lyrical, almost poetic and the worst are flatly intoned and totally infuriating to listen to.
The worst ones - in terms of quality - I have come across are from an hypno who has a dreadful, drawling Essex accent and patently has no interest in what he is saying but apparently sells many thousand of CDs every year. The better ones are from hypnotherapists who speak conversationally, sometimes with drama and sometimes with humour, but always with humanity. Paul McKenna can be very good on occasions when not in used car salesman mode, Wendi similarly when not gabbling in Californianese, but John Hughes at alphadynamics is my current favourite simply because of vocal depth, timbre and content, and a local hypno Marie Barnes has a beautiful silky voice I could listen to all day, so it is all very personal. My own voice is a combination of a German Shepherd with tonsilitis and a severely damaged Massey Ferguson tractor, so CDs are not my forte.
You are very lucky, Connie to have found the right voice for you, so I would stick with it.
Jack
Unreg
08-06-2006, 02:34 AM
Over the last year I have listened to over three hundred CDs from a wide variety of sources as part of a research program.......
Jack
It would be simply WONDERFUL to read all your reviews on these 300+ CDs.
I'm guessing that you wrote your reviews onto a computer, and they could therefore be copy/pasted, and so I wonder if there is any chance that you could post your reviews/conclusions to this board, or maybe to some free web-space on the net, or by hotmail, or something.........?
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Hello Unreg,
Part of my input into this research was to decide which of the CDs on the market were of sufficient quality to go forward for testing using volunteers.
The team who instigated the research are in control of the paper that may result from it and it is not within my gift to reveal more than I have already.
Hopefully, when the team manage to gather some more money to complete the research it will all become public knowledge and I will be able to post the whole paper after official publication. So, if you can be patient I will do so at the appropriate time, but thank you for your interest.
Jack
Unreg
08-07-2006, 09:18 AM
So, if you can be patient I will do so at the appropriate time.
Jack, thanks, that would be fascinating.
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Poodle
08-07-2006, 11:01 AM
That voice of yours is an ASSET -- listen to Erickson! I wager your clients find your voice totally wonderful as it causes just wonderful and amazing things to happen. Pood :p