Richard Bandler

[rd3500]

Hi guys,



I have been reading the forum for a while now. I have a couple of questions about Bandler that I could not answer doing a search.



I listened to a few of his tapes and you get all those stories and then 30 seconds of wisdom here and there. I was wondering if those stories are like Milton's stories, that seems unrelated but they are still conveying a (unconscious) message or just Richard that tries (or just wants) to fill in some time otherwise he would not need to talk that much.



The other question is the training that he is doing in September for NLP practitioner with Paul McKenna. I have read several books about nlp and hypnosis, never went to live training. It is expensive (2400 euros) and I was wondering what's your opinion about it. I would need to book it soon if I am going.


I was reading some posts with people not recommending him at the beginning but maybe after some training with other people. I find Bandler fairly fascinating, I saw videos and listened to tapes. Don't know much about other trainers although I read "training trances" and I was very impressed by the two authors and I am considering their training in December, although that’s hypnosis and not NLP, so one seminar does not exclude the other. There are other discussions about various trainings and I don't want to repeat it here, I was just interested about your opinion about the NLP practitioner training that Bandler does.


Thanks a lot,


Walter

[Nemesis Rogue]

His training with McKenna is not good. You don't get a cet in hypno. Search the forum, it's been brought up before.

[Dave Fitz]

FWIW, I have gone to one seminar. It was a Bandler seminar. I had read and heard quite a few things and thought exactly the same as you. On the first day of the seminar I was thinking "what did I just get myself into?" So many stories going all over the place. Then we started practicing with other people. It was clearly being installed at an unconcious level. It has been about 4 months since the seminar and things happen everday that make me remember parts of the seminar. I even talked to him briefly about the way I play guitar and he had me change my way of doing that which lead to an instant improvement. I would definitely say it was worth the money - but I have only been to one seminar...

It doesnt seem that too many people on this site will give you a straight answer about a question like this. Not sure why though...

[rd3500]

I have done some more research about his unconscious installations. I found a post from skip talking about it, also saying that is very difficult to pick it up. I was listening yesterday to some more of his DHE seminar and at least I started to notice some nested loops and some enbedded commands (only when the word now is around it though :-).

Nemesis, if you can explain what do you mean by "You don't get a cet in hypno". I don't understand the word cet.

Dave, what seminar did you go to? Namesis was commenting that the specific one I was referring to is not too good, not in general. The problem is that from the bandler web site, the training with mckenna is the only one available this year but 300 or 400 people seems a little bit much for my first seminar.

[Nemesis Rogue]

The Bandler/McKenna course covers NLP and hypno but you only get certified in NLP - not the hypno. You recieve no prior study materials - just sit and listen. I prefer other courses which provide you with this content - if only for reference material after the course has finished, if nothing else.

The set is approx 1000 people listening and only a handful of instructors to help out when practicing. Try co ordinating 1000 people - a lot harder than 20. Often, you don't get adequate time to practice, or even check you are doing it right. And at other courses, where the instructor to student ratio is much better, you're going to egt more out of it.

I highly recommend The Performance Partnership.

[the form]

>
I listened to a few of his tapes and you get all those stories and then 30 seconds of wisdom here and there. I was wondering if those stories are like Milton's stories, that seems unrelated but they are still conveying a (unconscious) message or just Richard that tries (or just wants) to fill in some time otherwise he would not need to talk that much.

Hey that is an excellent question. Excellent. My suspicion is that these stories preoccupy listners... I mean some of them are borderline believeable and some of them utterly fantastical. But I remember the moderator here, Skip, saying somewhere else on this forum that Bandler entertains in order to do the shadowy work. Insofar as these are entertaining stories they may in some respect be distractions so that he can do unconscious installations. That said his stories are certainly appropriate metaphors at times also. I would recommend listening to his Charisma enhancement series where he talks about nested loops in the last lecture - constructing them and what you are doing with them. Also, his series on 'the art and science of nested loops'... though I haven't actually seen that (or heard audio) it will be some of the best material on what you need to be doing with nested loops. All said though, I don't like to analyse him too much - it is good to know the concepts of nested loops, embedded commands, etc. But when you need to use DHE Bandler gives it to you without analysis, I'm sure it is the same with nested loops - as it is with charisma enhancement (public speaking) - what do you need it for. Maybe you want to do a master prac course or something ? But what you get from Bandler is immense if there is something you need it for. DHE is superb tremendous invincible genius - suddenly I now how to accomplish anything. Awareness, evaluate, destroy (if need be) and create, enhance, swish, anchor = activate neuropsychic pathways. Brain works nicely. Thank you very much Dr Bandler, you just opened another avenue of freedom. His courses are designed to make you do stuff - you can always sit back and enjoy the ride.....................

[tsdhsjj]

Please use paragraphs.

[Simon]

Please don't post one sentence posts.

I wonder how effective unconscious installation is, did anyone on this forum have any experience with it?

[rd3500]

Simon,

for a discussion about unconscious installation, take a look here and/or do a search, there are quite a few threads about it.
http://forum.hypnosis.com/showthread.php?t=816&highlight=unconscious+installation

[MissPiggy]

I've seen Bandler 2 times. Once with LaValle and once with McKenna and Breen. While both seminars have been good, the one in the US with Bandler/LaValle has been the better one because there they did have much better co-trainers. Also in the US there were fewer people at the seminar (around 80, the London seminar were around 120). If it's true that there are several hundred people at the seminar you want to go in september, I wouldn't do it. At least not for 2400 Euro.

[rd3500]

yep, I am pretty much going to skip september. I figured I have a lot of tapes, video and books to study before I get some live training.

I am lucky that in the office I work with a sonnambulist and I get to experiment some of the things I read. I got to the point that I can get her into a trance by just going in it myself and not saying anything. She is that good (I don't know what I am doing really but it is very easy to work with her). I remember the first time I hypnotized her it happened while I was explaining how it is done and sure enough she was gone and I did not know what to do. Pretty funny.

About Badler and his stories, I had a couple of thoughts last night. Those stories get you to picture things, so you get used to pictures, and more pictures, and when his 30 seconds of wisdom come, you picture those too which makes for an easier understanding. I have the impression that if you were just told the same concept and you have not been following all these intricated stories for 10 minutes, you would not think about the message the same way and it would not be received the same.

Just a thought.

[Poodle]

Those stores are metaphors if you listen carefully. You will find that he does not finish a story before starting another and then back on up again. YES, he does unconscious installation and in my opinion and in Skip's it is the only way to go except for the very beginning. You don't realize you have it until you need it and you find yourself doing it without knowing you are doing it.

As for how many people are attending, it depends on how many aids he has working with him. I have no idea of how much 2400 pounds sterling is but I would guess it's a lot of money from the little bit I have purchased from England.

Instead of going into nested loops and more advanced NLP, why don't you just start with the basics? After you get through the first two levels then you can start learning advanced NLP that is taught at what is known as Trainer's Training.

Have fun!

[Poodle]

Other people teach NLP too. I believe Matt James just returned from England. Maybe Tad James goes there too? Also Bennett/Stellar University just returned from a training in England which will probably be the end for this year for them. Please check these people's schedules. All do unconscious installation. There are other great trainers. Search and you will find!

[Gary Plunkett]

Aloha one and all!

in the UK we have a lot of NLP Practice Groups, which are often run by trainers, so it is a great place to meet possible people to train with.

Where are you based? Join up for free on www.nlpconnections.com (http://www.nlpconnections.com) which is UK based and advertises lots of groups and events and has a good NLP forum too.

If you're near the north west, I run two groups, one in Chester and one in Manchester - they're both on the above site.

Tad James was very clear about the importance of choosing your trainers carefully, as he warned us that aspects of the trainer will rub off on you at a subconscious level, so you may not even be aware of it.

For example, a friend went to a special 'meet Bandler' event with only 15-20 students and Richard installed a lot into the group, breaking down some of their barriers using very direct techniques. When he came back, my friend could not stop crudely swearing and was ostracised by his friends for talking about 'niggers', whereas previously he was not racist. He had to seek professional help to remove these traits! so be careful who you train with as NLP is very effective!

& Yes I would definitely recommend trainers who have strong 'heart' such as Matt James, or John Overdurf and Julie Silverthorn.

Gary Plunkett
Certified Trainer of NLP & Coaching

[?!?]

For example, a friend went to a special 'meet Bandler' event with only 15-20 students and Richard installed a lot into the group, breaking down some of their barriers using very direct techniques. When he came back, my friend could not stop crudely swearing and was ostracised by his friends for talking about 'niggers', whereas previously he was not racist. He had to seek professional help to remove these traits!

If true, that is a very disturbing story.

http://forum.hypnosis.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[MissPiggy]

LMAO! The story is not disturbing it's totally funny. I know Bandler often uses a rather rough language, but I don't believe that he installs anything in people that they get out of the seminar and can't stop swearing anymore.

[skip]

You may find it disturbing, I find it not credible.

I have never heard Bandler refer to anyone as 'nigger'.

Never.

Now that doesnt mean that it has never happened, I have no way of knowing that.

Just that the 'story' isnt my experience of Bandler at all.

skip

[Brendon O]

You may find it disturbing, I find it not credible.

I have never heard Bandler refer to anyone as 'nigger'.

Never.

Now that doesn't mean that it has never happened, I have no way of knowing that.

Just that the 'story' isn't my experience of Bandler at all.

skip

I agree. I have watched several hours of his seminars and have never sensed a racist tone. I have seen him work with blacks on more than one occasion.

For example, Persuasion Engineering and The Bandler Effect.

IF there was any installation that could have resulted in this guy being suddenly outwardly racist it was probably more likely that Bandler installed something in regards to being more honest and/or outspoken. Thus this guy being more honest and outspoken. lol.

[Poodle]

It may be true. Anything is possible but I don't believe it for a minute. There is one word in particular that Richard uses and that's about it. To me it seems to be a left over reminant of his modeling George Carlin.

I have heard just about everything Richard has done and have NEVER heard that!

I personally think that is so "interesting" that you should send it to the Bandler webpage as an email. Let us know what you receive as a reply. I think they should be back from teaching about now. Pood

[unreg]

I don't believe it for a minute.

Nor do I.

I've heard Bandler sometimes being hillariously critical of organised religion (and why not?). But Bandler installing Racism??? I don't believe it.

I wonder why Gary Plunkerr would even imply such an thing.... http://forum.hypnosis.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[curious cat]

I have heard just about everything Richard has done

What are your favorite Bandler materials
?

[Poodle]

To be very, very truthful -- EVERYTHING! But I will have to admit that I was quite taken back at Richard in a suit and tie with his hair neatly combed. I did not care much for The Adventures of Anybody tho and asked if he would mind if I sold my copy. I was even told the best way to put it up on eBay! Talk about helpful!!

[Poodle]

You are given 10 minutes to practice an exercise. Do you really need more as it has been unconsciously installed in your mind? If you can't do it in 10 minutes then it has not filtered thru to your conscious mind in which case you should stop thinking about it and just do it.

[Poodle]

As if it makes any difference, sometimes he does get on a somewhat religious kick about "my people" as he was raised Jewish. However, it is usually made light of.

I think the only thing that really ticks him off is people ripping off his work. He was actually told that Dilts came up with NLP which was of course news to him. He also gets distressed when people copy covers from his books, etc. without permission.

[the great unregistered]

Poodle,
How is ity that you know so much about Bandler?

[Woof !]

Poodle,
How is ity that you know so much about Bandler?

I think it may be 'puppy love'........


http://images.medhunters.com/content/articles/puppyLove/images/published/160x120/poodle.jpg

[Poodle]

How do I know so much about Bandler? I use the same techniques he used to dream up NLP -- a study of excellence. There is a website and telephone numbers. Besides, we are close to the same age which makes many life experiences close to the same so it is easier to relate.

Thanks Woof for the picture. We are much prettier, of course, with much longer ears and totally snow white. He is quite a beauty but unlike Skip's Cooper he has no idea of how to manifest anything!

Can't be puppy love as Bandler doesn't even like to have lunch with NLPers. He says all they want to do is "pick" his brain. Everyone deserves a life apart from work. ;)

[Simple Guy]

Poodle,

I find it hard to believe that your pooche has no idea of how to
manifest anything... bet it can manifest a treat, a hug, a scratching,
an NLPer to walk it, etc. :)

[Poodle]

Spoiled rotten. This is HIS house and my job is to clean it for him. The furniture was bought for HIS pleasure and the only reason we have a car is so we can go for a ride every day with his head out the window letting the wind blow in his face. Treats? Yes, I am very well trained. First thing I do in the morning. Dinner HAS to be at 5:00pm SHARP! I'm quite sure I know who owns whom but is that not what they are for? He does his job well as my rapport builder.

[maverick]

The majority of Richards training is unconscious installation.

I believe unconscious installation has a great place in our learnings but I also believe Michael Neill's input in Paul Mckenna's training is essential as he gives a more conscious understanding and creates an overall balance.

His training with McKenna is not good. You don't get a cet in hypno. Search the forum, it's been brought up before.

Apparently their Master prac now includes Hypnosis certification.

[Poodle]

There are handouts and in some classes booklets; however, after one sees you do the requested exercise and do it correctly, you have no need of the handout or booklets other than an "anchor" for your conscious mind which isn't there anyway. It sometimes takes TIME for this to filter through on a conscious level and you will be doing the work without knowing you are doing it. I would much rather bring my SC mind to a training than have to take notes, bring a tape recorder and study, study, study. Why should I study, study study when I could practice, practice, practice? Also depending upon Richard's mood is the "teaching" you get. He can explain something so well that a half-wit can go do the exercise and do it correctly. His teaching methods are not difficult to understand. He just uses what he co-developed - NLP.

Certain people do not like unconscious installation. They have a romance with their textbooks.