To dig or not to dig??

[Alexander_1982]

A few days ago a pretty minor incident occurred that has since brought out an old personal conflict that I thought I had gotten over years ago. It all started back at school (aged 14) where in one particular class I was ridiculed for being tall and thin and kids in this class called me names, pretty standard stuff for a rough school but at the time it pretty much annihilated me psychologically.

After that I became extremely inhibited and self-conscious and because some of the taunts came from girls in the class, I developed a fear of approaching women which still haunts me, I totally lost confidence in myself, social anxiety developed to protect this battered ego. I left school and took up bodybuilding (surprise, surprise) and was just totally lost in it for 4-5 years. Somehow I pulled myself out of that self-obsessed void and have just started a psychology degree, I thought I was progressing well and I had a few hypnosis sessions with noticeable results. However the other night after the football (it’s the world cup you know) some drunken idiots were chanting ‘get your hair cut’ at me. At the time I didn’t react and sort of breezed it over but as time progressed it kept coming into my mind and I got more and more anxious and depressed. Two nights in a row I’ve dreamt about being back at school and fearing the worst thing of all, and that is that I’m still the person I was back then, timid and afraid. The ridicule was the switch that tripped off all this erstwhile emotional baggage that I thought I was over.

Anyway this whole scenario has got me thinking, an old wound was opened and it was there all the time, do I need to deal directly with this issue as all the old books tell us? I know hypnosis is sort of the antithesis of the old Freudian memory drudging but as far as I can tell, this incident is at the heart of my psychological symptoms. I have no interest in talk therapy or free association but analytical hypnotherapy claims to deal with these sorts of problems and I’d just like to query the consensus here on the effectiveness or indeed relevance of such tactics.

Psychology seems to have its roots in cause and effect and it’s difficult to get past that idealism sometimes, perhaps it is this very idea that is holding me back. Many still say hypnosis and particularly NLP are hollow, short-cut treatments that fail to address causes of perhaps why things are the way they are but it is my firm belief that you get what you focus on and so a shift of focus and awareness is unquestionably the most effective strategy for change.

This debate isn’t going away anytime soon but for those of us who can identify a particular incident as the foundation of certain behaviours is it then not necessary to use certain techniques to resolve these conflicts?

[Terry (existing)]

Since you say you know the cause, were is the need to dig? What I can tell you, is that you will need someone else to work with you, since self hypnosis will not give you results I assure you. Any decent practitioner could solve the problem in one session if what you have posted is indeed correct. Now that is presupposition of course, and there may well be a root problem prior to the one you tell us about, and in that case, digging MAY be required, though I suspect I could deal with such a situation regardless if your belief is strong. To answer your question as asked, no, digging is not a requirement, but depends on the client and their needs. Not knowing you I can't say what is needed by YOU, and distance diagnosis is foolish and time wasting, particullarly since you have access to skilled persons.

[Don]

Hi, Alexander.

Who are the "many" who "say hypnosis and particularly NLP are hollow, short-cut treatments that fail to address causes?"

Thanks.

[Merlin]

I recommend digging in cases of more severe dis-ease, such as Cancer.
With what you describe, a good Time line therapy (tm) practitioner could likely help you in one session.

[Alexander_1982]

Hi, Alexander.

Who are the "many" who "say hypnosis and particularly NLP are hollow, short-cut treatments that fail to address causes?"

Thanks.

In my experience, it seems to be a common thread amongst fellow students versed in traditional methods of psychology. An old teacher of mine who has lectured and influenced me on such subjects has always emphasised meaning in conflict and greater understanding of WHY we act as we do. In some cases he would call such illness such as cancer and depression as obsession with the material world and the soul withdrawing its energies from a wayward, self-serving personality. His theoretical understanding mainly comes from Theosophy for those who are familiar with the likes of Blavatsky and Alice Bailey etc. To bypass this very important process of personality conflict which is according to theosophy coerces the personality away from materialism to the more subjective processes of the soul and its work would not be well looked upon. That’s one school of thought I hold at arms length.

A while back I came across this fantastic argument involving a traditional NY therapist and a practising UK hypnotherapist which exemplifies this argument better than I can;

http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5009 (http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5009)

[Simple Guy]

Alexander,

Haven't looked at the link you provide (an appt. starting soon, here),
but will say that it is common among students of psychology
(and also NLP, hypnosis, etc.) to settle in to particular dogmas. And,
sometimes, the constructs of that dogma constrain the effectiveness
of outcome, for e.g. when unhelpful frames of experience are presented
to clients as "necessary" for problem resolution. I had a client that
was a degreed "addictions therapist." 15 - 20 years of her own
therapy convinced her that "digging" into childhood stuff, within
the confines of the particular therapeutic modality were necessary
for her to stop smoking. She'd likely have continued to dig, her own
grave, by smoking (serious medical complications). She stopped
smoking, second session with hypnosis. Different frame. Different
outcome. Theory can be interesting, sometimes helpful, sometimes
disasterous.

[Terry (existing)]

I would study what Ericson taught without demanding that he be perfect in other ways, and take what I learned as my own to build on, while leaving Milt to take care of his own personality, which in fact is non of my business. How is it that you feel justified in doing so?

[Simple Guy]

Alexander,

Went to the link. Don't share your view that this is a "fantastic
argument." Rather, it is a pointless response to ad hominem
drivel directed towards Dr. Erickson.

[Poodle]

Dr. Erickson (psychiatrist and hypnotist) said: A patient is only a patient because they are not in rapport with their subconscious mind. This statement leads us directly to YOU and your problem. You are not in rapport with your subconscious mind. A little fine tuning by NLP or hypnosis will make you right as rain as it will put you back into rapport with your subconscious mind. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. You do not need to go back and relive those trying times again. We have other methods to get around that. Many psychologists use hypnosis and I would not doubt many will start picking up on NLP too. There is a new "degree" of people coming out of universities and medical schools now that are much more amenable to alternative methods.

Hypnosis was accepted by both the American and British Medical Associations in the '50's.

[Poodle]

That is only if you do not want to relive those old worn out memories. Otherwize we could do pull it out by the roots on you and you would get to experience again every horrible memory and feelings that went with it.

[Don]

Thanks for your answer, Alexander.

Although you claimed that "many" people feel this way, you only identify
1) Your "fellow students versed in traditional methods of psychology" and
2) An old teacher

This is hardly the "many" you claimed feel this way. Rather, it is but a handful of people.

It would have been far more accurate to say "a few people you know" rather than "many" people.

[Poodle]

I personally believe the link should be removed. It is from a hypnosis school in England and I have no idea why they allow such drivel as they teach basically Ericksonian hypnosis. Most Unhappy, Pood

[pmdigi]

seems to me it's just an open forum - just one guys misinterpretations in a post.

[skip]

Poodle and pmdigi,

Im in favor of leaving the link in.

It begins with one person's list of derisive opinions without any substantiation.

That foolishness is replied to by someone who admits that they arent a hypnotist or a therapast and that they dont even know much about Erickson.

A fool responded to with ignorance.

Then later someone who seems to have a clue is drawn in and demonstrates that the original poster has a severely myopic aganda, and is uninterested in anything but promoting that agenda. He is suspicious of Erickson's 'deepest motives'. What a laugh.

And brought here, to us, by someone who considers it an 'informed discussion'.

Why dont we leave them to their ignorance?

skip

[Alexander_1982]

Perhaps the link wasn’t so enlightening, at the time I thought it a fair representation of the sorts of dialogue engaged between hypnotherapy and traditional Freudian therapy. If it has bought disrepute to your irreparable high standards I apologise, mere intellectual mortals like myself are prone to the occasional lapse in judgement.

[Alexander_1982]

I apologise for the above, I misinterpreted the comment, chalk another one for me!

BTW if it isn't Eriksonn getting a bashing it's 'Don' Bandler and his criminal past as a maifa boss, these guys are real comedians ain't they. It's probably the mark of success when people try to shoot you down.

[Simple Guy]

"It's probably the mark of success when people try to shoot you down."

Alexander,

And what do you think impugning people's character as you've attempted
to do is a mark of?

[Terry (existing)]

"It's probably the mark of success when people try to shoot you down."

Alexander,

And what do you think impugning people's character as you've attempted
to do is a mark of? Need you ask?... I have just put him on my "ignore" list. Perhaps he can turn that into a badge of honor also (G).

[Poodle]

While you are bashing people's character, why not check into your beloved Freud? Pood