View Full Version : subliminal messages in pictures?
welshguymikey
05-22-2006, 04:31 AM
i just heard about this book and the graphics cd you can get http://www.world-of-magic.co.uk/magic.asp?id=374
what are your thoughts on using subliminal messages in graphics? do you think it is possible and effective?
There is no evidence I've seen that they have any effect.
Assuming it does work, what would you do, say to someone, "Sir, here's a picture and I'd like you to look at it for the next 30 minutes?"
Merlin
05-22-2006, 01:12 PM
If you really want to understand, study advertising.
Unreg
05-22-2006, 04:36 PM
Derren Brown has used dummy ads for subliminal persuasion, also anchoring to colours. But he does this as part of a wider 'package' of persuasion.
Poodle
05-25-2006, 12:57 PM
Bandler says subliminal is NOTHING. Oh, BTW, he was given anothe Dr. so he is now Dr. Dr. Bandler. Okay??
welshguymikey
05-25-2006, 01:55 PM
have to admit i have always been dubious of subliminal mesaging in general conversation, what are other peoples view on subliminal messages?
TaffyE
05-26-2006, 07:28 PM
I have a vague recollection from a long time ago that cinemas were flashing messages on the screen so quickly that they weren't consciously noticed.
The example given was "Buy popcorn". Sales boomed
The method was banned.
welshguymikey
05-27-2006, 03:53 AM
lol that reminds me of a movie that supposidly did that with a picture of a dick. cant remebr what film that was
welshguymikey
05-27-2006, 03:54 AM
do you think by saying a word i na different tone or parts of a word will work as a subliminal message tho like they teach in some nlp books?
Unreg
05-27-2006, 08:29 AM
do you think by saying a word i na different tone or parts of a word will work as a subliminal message tho like they teach in some nlp books?
I don't know about whether it "will" work, but I definitely believe it "could" work.
Remember: The meaning of every communication is the response you get.
If it works, then it works. If it doesn't, then try something else. Or even try the same again in a different context.
Be flexible.
Poodle
06-08-2006, 05:20 PM
I amend my post. Dr. Bandler says that verbal subliminal doesn't work but that visual does. Want to know more, go study with him. Pood
Simon
06-09-2006, 09:42 AM
The study about visual subliminals "buy coke" and "buy popcorn" were after years of misguiding revealed by creator as deception.
I made few subliminal tracks, in each using so called asociative word followed by some random word. After listening to the track, the listener was given the asociative word and he had to choose one word from 20 words (including the word used in conjuction with asociative word)
The track was made of some regular sound with added brainwave entertainment (to, by theory, higher his suggestability) and the repetition of words that could be heared (if listened high attention) but couldn't be understood even if wanted. The listener was about 70% succesful about picking the right word (but I still doubt if that shows anything about subliminals since it was made on small scale)
And even if it is true that listener "gets" the information in the track, I don't believe this could be used for therapeutic causes (or in any other way to change his fixed thoughts)
Simon make a great point about subliminals:
Even if they desires words/phrases/images do get into the subconscious, there is no evidence of which I am aware indicating that they are acted upon.
There is no evidence I've seen that they have any effect.
Assuming it does work, what would you do, say to someone, "Sir, here's a picture and I'd like you to look at it for the next 30 minutes?"
wear it on your t-shirt and have a half hour conversation. symbols do have an effect especially if they have significance for the user.
But that's not subliminal.
Hibbitty
07-16-2006, 03:55 PM
Hey Don,
I think there is evidence that subliminal words, images, phrases do have an effect though it's only an increased likelihood or disposition.
Here's a link: http://www.csic.cornell.edu/201/subliminal/
Hibbitty, you're correct and I should have been more accurate in my post.
Yes, there is some evidence which indicates a "likelihood or disposition" to a certain behaviors. However, there is nothing I've seen that indicates you can simply plop a word or phrase into a picture and completely change a person's behavior if that person did not want to change that behavior in the first place.
The infamous "buy popcorn" subliminal took place in a theater where many people expect to buy popcorn, and if they didn't already do so, encouragement can help. But if a person is happy smoking cigarettes, putting "don't smoke" in a picture isn't going to change their life.
gettingbrighter
07-17-2006, 12:53 AM
Derran Brown has an episode in his Channel 4 series of "Trick of the Mind" where he modifies an advertising trailer at the beginning of movie with subliminal messages to forget the movie.
Interviews after the movie demonstrate that most of the audience forgot what the movie was.
gettingbrighter
getting brighter--
If you really want to get brighter, you should realize that there is a big difference between the magic trick you saw performed by DB and real subliminals.
Simon
07-17-2006, 08:37 AM
The infamous "buy popcorn" subliminal took place in a theater where many people expect to buy popcorn, and if they didn't already do so, encouragement can help. But if a person is happy smoking cigarettes, putting "don't smoke" in a picture isn't going to change their life.
Don, the research from 60ies was fake and not repeatable.
But check the site that Hibbitty provided:
http://www.csic.cornell.edu/201/subliminal/
gettingbrighter
07-17-2006, 11:15 PM
If you really want to get brighter, you should realize that there is a big difference between the magic trick you saw performed by DB and real subliminals.
Well I spoke to 2 professionals upon your comments Don; one a Hypnotherapist and another one who is a NLP Practioner/Hypnotherapist, both of whom have provided me with evidence that confirms what you've said. They have even challenged me to use a "subliminal application" which flashes a message on my PC and interlaces with my monitor's screen refresh so that I can hardly see the message so that I can prove it for myself. They have both provided me with suggestions on how to phrase the message as well as a frequency of display.
Both said that when there is a emotional state attached to a subliminal message that it is partially effective. They both also said that for any real message to hold true in the subconscious mind that there would need to be a period of exposure for such suggestions to be permanent. The individual receiving the suggestion would also have to have something "invested" in the outcome.
So I'd like to retract what I've said in the meantime while I use the "subliminal" program over the next few weeks observing if there are any results from using this technique.
getting brighter
Unregistered help
07-25-2006, 01:49 AM
I have a vague recollection from a long time ago that cinemas were flashing messages on the screen so quickly that they weren't consciously noticed.
The example given was "Buy popcorn". Sales boomed
The method was banned.
It is my understanding that this did happen but was not banned, advertisers just realised normal advertising tequniques were just as effective whilst also not seemingly deceptive.
One of the most famous studies was done using the movie, "Lawrence of Arabia".
Seems that they flashed pictures of a delicious refreshing coke.
Sales soared above average.
Then they played the movie without he subliminal.
Sales soared above average.
Think desert scenes.
Subliminal doesnt have to be subliminal, to be effective.
skip
One of the most famous studies was done using the movie, "Lawrence of Arabia".
Seems that they flashed pictures of a delicious refreshing coke.
Sales soared above average.
Then they played the movie without he subliminal.
Sales soared above average.
Think desert scenes.
Subliminal doesnt have to be subliminal, to be effective.
skip
why coke then? (and not other drinks?) (probably this is not the point of your post which also contains a valuable lesson - but you got to ask (if this is in fact a true account) - surely they couldn't be doing such bad science - reasearching into the effects of subliminals on sales as to not check the relative sales of competitive brands...? So why coke sales increases?)
giro, while I agree with your basic point, comparing colas with other flavors is not a good experiment. The basis of the scientific method is repeated experiments under the same conditions.
Show the subliminal: observe the effect.
Don't show the subliminal: observe the effect.
If, when a movie showing desert scenes increases the sales of cola to the same extent as the same movie with subliminals to sell cola,it indicates that in this instance subliminals are not effective. If it showed increased sales of cola, it would indicate that they are effective.
Because in social scientific research it is difficult to keep perhaps the most important variable--the people being tested--the same, groups of people need to be tested either with or without the subliminal.
As to why cola sold more than other drinks...
It's the most popular soft drink flavor.
Why Coke over other brands? Because concession stands at theaters only sell one manufacturer's set of drinks. You can't get Pepsi at a theater that sells Coke, and vice versa.
>comparing colas with other flavors is not a good experiment. The basis of the scientific method is repeated experiments under the same conditions.
>Show the subliminal: observe the effect.
>Don't show the subliminal: observe the effect.
>Why Coke over other brands? Because concession stands at theaters only sell one manufacturer's set of drinks. You can't get Pepsi at a theater that sells Coke, and vice versa.
well that would be fair enough if you couldn't get anything else - but then it is poor experiment design. You would want to check whether the relative sales of any soft drink went up surely? And how each performed. The effect might be the same in both cases, but that would just determine the subliminal didn't work. However, if the performance sales of coke rose to a greater proportion over the sales of other drinks while the subliminals went up this might suggest something different. If you didn't have the information from relative sales of the other drinks i.e. how their sales were performing relative to yours, then wouldn't that make for a better experiment? Then again if it was the only drink available (odd though that would be) then obviously it would give a certain result. But slightly more sophisticated study might be more indicative, esp given the scenario with non-constant audience.
p.s. suggesting therefore that the relative sales figures be 'the effect'.
It WAS poor design.
It also made a point that seems to have been missed.
The "subliminals" werent exactly subliminal.
They WERE to the extent that they went by unnoticed consciously, as something out of context, and needs to be brought to conscious attention.
They werent "subliminal" because they were there, prolonged, obvious, etc, a violation of all the 'subliminal protocols'.
Yet they were effective, because they made people thirsty, outside of their conscious decision making process, and led them to go, and order whatever goddamn soft dring was available.
So you might want to get over picking at the gnats, and realize that covert, subliminal, whatever you want to call it, is easy, and can be right out front, and so obvious that you mis it.
Sheesh wants to quibble about the protocol of the experiment and misses the obvious.
Just like the designers of the experiemnt did!
cheers,
skip
lol, nice reply, thanks! :D
Yet they [non flashing aspects] were effective, because they made people thirsty, outside of their conscious decision making process, and led them to go, and order whatever goddamn soft dring was available.
P.s. I noticed (the valuable lesson).
Cheers,
giro