Can you be hypnotized to do something against your will?

[skip]

Ever hear that question? ;)

We all have our answers to it.

Some say no.

Some say yes.

I say ...

Before we get to that, dont you think we ought to have some idea what 'will' is?

Conscience?

Morals?

Values?

Determined intent?

How do you define 'will'?

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[Poodle]

is no to all four. However, NLP can and often does change realities for someone else so we know it is very possible with correct language patterns and knowledge someone would do something against Mr. or Ms. Will. This then translates that we can do the exact same thing with the same patterns in the hypnotic trance state. :eek:

Pood :pood:

[Vin]

Pretty tough question.
First, we have to define will, without a clear definition, the question is itself not clear.
And let's say we have a definition upon which we have consensus: will is subject to change, from millisecond to millisecond.

Vin

[parsa]

I think when lay people talk about this issue they could mean one or all or some combination of items.

"She hypnotized me to pick up the basket"

Would probably fall in the intent category. "I had no intention of doing it"

"She hypnotized me to kiss this guy I don't know"

Would probably fall in the values category.

I guess it could mean if I haven't specifically asked that you do "A" can you get me to do "A"?

That kind of fall into the intent category, I think.

[Don]

Ever hear that question?...

Before we get to that, dont you think we ought to have some idea what 'will' is?

If we want to discuss the meaning of "will," then the answer is sure, why not?

However, in the context of the way you're presenting this—in relation to the question "can you use hypnosis to make me do something against my will"—I would say that what we think "will" means is totally irrelevant.

In this particular situation, the only thing that matters is what the person who asks the question thinks "will" means.

We could ask, but the truth is that many, if not most people are not able to articulate their personal meaning for the word, "will."

So is it worth the trouble to help a person identify what they mean by the word (and do so without getting them made at you—many people don't like being shown that they use words without having specific meanings for them) just so you can respond?

Not for me.

My answer is simply, "No. It can't be done."

If someone then goes on, "But I saw a case where..." I deal with the specific instance and show what was done (although more often than not I would debunk the case: "You mean you actually believe everything you see on YouTube is real?").

But for me, it's just a throwaway line. Nope. Now that's out of the way, let's get to work!

[skip]

OK now that a discussion of what will is, is started ...

I have never had a problem hypnotizing someone and getting them to do most anything.

Hence, "It is all movable furniture."

Contrary to some beliefs, morals is one of the easiest to change, in my experience.

The toughest, IMO, is a well thought out, reasoned determination about something.

What I would call 'Determined Intent'.

I sense it has 'more behind it' so to speak, more supporting it.

But that is my belief.

Morals, ethics, values? Those are just beliefs; beliefs about self, and beliefs about beliefs.

Beliefs are easy to change.

A little note here.

This doesnt mean that any hypnotist can run rampant thru your mind or society.

Your unconscious is very good at detecting malevolent intent. And when it does, rapport is lost. Nothing is accomplished without rapport with the unconscious.

Nuff said.

Oh yea, "What is will?"

The computer you are using is the rersult of an act of will. Someone imagined it before it existed, and applied effort, and made it into reality, thru volition, or will.

At least that is my take.

YMMV

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[Docresults]

How do you define 'will'?

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Skip,

As MY Grampa Vetter would say, "Where there's a will... I want to be in it!"

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

[Simon]

Sure you can make someone to do something they don't want to just by using verbal persuasion.

Will: desire to do something
Against their will: something they don't want to do

[skip]

Simon,

The key word being 'make', eh?

I disagree with your definition of will though.

I desire win the lottery, but I havent purchased a ticket in years.

How does that play, in your opinion?

Is will an expression of degree of desire?

Or something else?

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[skip]

When people ask the question, "Can hypnosis make someone do something against their will?"

Arent they really asking if someone can be compelled by the hypnotist, to violate their morals or ethics?

The presupposition of the questions is, "Will they lose control of their will to another?"

And of course the answer to THAT question is, "NO."

The real question is, "Can someone be influenced to change their mind about ..."

Isnt it?

cheers,

skip

[Simon]

Simon,

The key word being 'make', eh?

I disagree with your definition of will though.

I desire win the lottery, but I havent purchased a ticket in years.

How does that play, in your opinion?

Is will an expression of degree of desire?

Or something else?

skip

Maybe "will" then is something we wish to do and also decide to do.

"Doing something against ones will" would then be something they don't want to do, but have decided to do it anyway.

About 10 years ago, I had to study for certain classes against my will. I did not desire to study but I "didn't have a choice" because of requirements/expectations that were imposed on me.

So, if this was a fairly accurate description of what "will" means in our context then:

Doing something against ones will would mean having a strong enough reason for doing it which is not aligned with morals or desires or values of that individual.

And in that case the reason is always external, because if it's internal (it comes from within) it has to be aligned with morals, desires and values.

Do you agree?

[Docresults]

Consideration...

Does the individual have only one will or more than one will?

Is will content or context dependent?

How does congruency affect will?

Does Will's sister 'Still' make any difference in how well will works?

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

[skip]

So if I get it correctly then 'Will' is determining to do something that is contrary to beliefs and values?

Or "Will" is determining to do something that may or may not be contrary to our beliefs and values.

I would submit to you that we never do something against our beliefs and or values. (That is an incorrect statement because it presupposes we are never incongruent)

But hold the thought for long enough to wonder, "Do our beliefs and values ever change?"

AND could "Will" be our behavioral expression of our beliefs and values?

Can you have "Will" without a corrosponding behavioral expression?

cheers,

skip

ps: Doc, Tell Will's sister Jill, I love her still, and I think she is swell as well.

[Simon]

I would submit to you that we never do something against our beliefs and or values. (That is an incorrect statement because it presupposes we are never incongruent)

For me, everything we do is aligned with our beliefs if we do it on our own will.

Eg, if someone's belief is that stealing is wrong and he still steals something that doesn't mean he's doing it against his beliefs. It simply means there was a stronger belief present at the moment of decision (maybe it was necessary to steal something to save someones life?). So in fact, our subject did act on his beliefs.

Surely, if two beliefs are incompatible I am being incongruent, but I'm also not acting against my belief because at that moment of decision my strongest belief was that I needed to do that.

Or, if someone is trying to lose weight and has decided to stop eating fast food but he still eats it from time to time, that simply means the desire was stronger than the decision.

Another; if one of my values is honesty but I've decided to lie, that means there was another reason which was strong enough to suspend that value for the given time.

My understanding so far, with your help is: there are layers of beliefs/values/desires, but what our "will" comes down to is having internal desire, value or belief that allows us to make a decision to exhibit a certain behavior.

Thus, if someone else imposes his own desires, values or beliefs on me, without me accepting them as my own - and making me act on them, I have just done something against my will.

To answer your question, yes to me it seems that will is behavioral expression of our strongest beliefs or values at the moment of decision.

This is getting a bit complex, and please tell me if I'm not making any sense anymore.

[Docresults]

ps: Doc, Tell Will's sister Jill, I love her still, and I think she is swell as well.

Will's sister Still Jill has always adored you and swells with joy that you think of her.

Now his cousin Willy-Nilly is another story.

[skip]

Excellent Simon,

Yes indeed there are layers, and the higher layers can override the lower layer, and lower layers can override higher laywer if enough of them get together.

And when you have conflicting beliefs and values you are incongruent. sometimes so incongruent that you cannot function, such as in procrastination.

AND beliefs and values change in context.

If you were to sort thru all your beliefs and values such that you were totally congruent, in all contexts, you would be most effective in this world.

Something along the lines of Maslow's 'Actualized Man'.

Now if you put handcuffs on me and force me to go to prison, I will go, against my will. Like the good old boy said, "Well I'll go, but I wont like it much." But that isnt hypnosis, is it? And I seriously doubt that hypnosis can coerce in that manner.

But hypnosis could be used to get me to put on handcuffs and go to prison.

So same behavior different attitude.

What would be the difference?

And we still havent pinned down will, have we?

Try this on.

A couple once approached me. Their daughter had joined a cult. They wanted to kidnap her, and have me 'deprogram' her. I asked them to give me some time, to try a different approach.

I allowed myself to be 'recruited' by the cult. And using my skills I rose in the ranks until I was at a level high enough to have authority over this girl that she recognized. And I then told her that she had been selected for a special mission. The cult needed people in various positions in society, that apparently had no conncection with them.

she was to tell no one. She was to pretend to leave the cult. She was to return to her parents, school, etc and to live as normal a life as she could manage, even to getting married and having children if she chose to. BUT that one day 'we' (the cult) would contact her and she would know because we would use a secret phrase that would 'activate' her, and then she was to follow our further instructions from there. But that she was to remain undercover no matter what, and offer no contact with us, unless the secret 'code phrase' was used. If someone did contact her, and the right code phrase wasnt used, they wouldnt really be from the cult leadership, and she was to ignore their instructions.

So that is what she did.

I too left the cult, carelessly neglecting to inform them, what her code words were.

Question; "Did she do something against her will?"

An off topic question, "Do you trhink I acted unethically in this?"

Would it make a difference if the 'cult' involved was fundamentalist christian, the democratic party, green peace?

Sticky wicket, what.

cheers,

skip