New Version Of An Old Question

[joethelayperson]

I am going to ask an old question in a slightly different way and ask the therapists on here to put their necks on the line


here goes


I am NOT going to ask 'how many sessions' as I know that is like asking how long is a piece of string. No Hypnotherapist or therapist can give a categorical promise or guarantee of effectiveness, let alone state from the outset how many sessions any treatment will require. This I understand .......

What I want to know is similar but not exactly the same


How many sessions would YOU feel comfortable in conducting, before you would refer the client to another professional or say 'I think I have done everything I can for you'?


Again, I know this is dependant upon the presenting problem, ability to gain rapport and a myriad of other factors BUT I wonder how many sessions would be your PERSONAL maximum before you would refer the person to somebody else or state your inability to help further?

[joethelayperson]

BY THE WAY


I know the easy answer is 'however many sessions it takes' and I know this is true ....but I am asking you how many you would feel comfortable in conducting before you would feel obliged in ceasing treatment or referring to somebody else

[Annie]

Hi Joe,

Since you are addressing " therapists " about " Lengths of treatment ", and neither Steve nor I " therapize " ... I s'pose we have chosen to exclude ourselves from your discussion, eh ?
~

Several of our classes deal with " pain " : how many different kinds of these challenges exist ? : unfortunately no Drought in that department.

You asked : Again, I know this is dependant upon the presenting problem, ability to gain rapport and a myriad of other factors BUT I wonder how many sessions would be your PERSONAL maximum before you would refer the person to somebody else or state your inability to help further ?

We both believe in " Full disclosure ", meaning :
1. At the outset, (with the both of us working together) we educate our students in how every-one's magnificent mind works, and can be further enhanced/enriched.
2. Next, we teach them each skill, step-by-step, while in class (and
before we send them home to further practice these for 1 week) they Return-demonstrate so every-one is assured they can do each step well ... Yes, we inform our students that their Success is directly related to their *active & happy involvement* :)
3. We know from personal experiences, plus scientific research, plus similar student-successes of other like-teachers, plus our own ... that our *1-month Time-table* we provide, including for Childbirth, is accurately realistically possible.
and
4. We also know that on occasion, certain pains are just really "stubborn". so, we offer an "Advanced-pain" class for those, with 4-8 additional individual classes. This is the 1 situation where it may be a bit longer. But
here's the thing : for each person *Sincerely, truely, really, intentionally, congruently wanting to end their pain* : it is going to end. There is no doubt about it in our mind. It's a done-deal. It's a given fact, as sure as the sun is going to dawn on another day ... and
5. the best thing yet, our students feel so wonderful afterwards, that they can't wait to ... keep right on Learning :)

OK; I'll stop boring you now, with us ... and let the THERAPISTS state their case !


Annie

[joethelayperson]

you did not bore me at all

very interesting. The next question is, in the circumstances where the people do not fully , congruently etc want top end their pain........approximately what percentage of your client base are thus afflicted with negativity

And how do you go about getting around this?

[Merlin]

I would stop when the client asks me to.

[EC]

Hi Joe,

Hard to answer question because it depends on the nature of the problem. But, for most issues it really comes down to the client having the correct "mind set", or mental attitude. If I don't see it and can't get it, I generally send them home and cancel further sessions. Generally they always come back. Sure helps the success rate. Much of the problem with failed therapy is the unwillingness on the part of the client to take responsibility for change. It is much easier to just stay the same, take the known, negative path. Secondary gain is a good example, or a good reason to keep our problems. Had a gal recently on pain medication that wanted to "get off", but she really didn't, she happened to like Vicodin.

But,,,,, no degree of correct mental attitude on the part of the client will make up for a lack of ability and experience on the part of the hypnotherapist. Sometimes failure results from such inexperience. Kinda like anything else, there are lots of if's, and's and buts !
EC

[Annie]

Hi Joe,

You asked : " ... where the people do not fully, congruently, etc. want to end their pain ....... approximately what percentage of your client base are thus afflicted with negativity ?

Let me answer you with these questions :
Why would a person want to waste $ xxx dollars on a class, whose objective/purpose it is for her/him to *End their pain*, so long as they have negative 2ndary gains, or more, to continue keeping their negativity/pains ?

Such a person can, well, ask themselves :
1. What is my pain(s), &/or negativity, doing for me that I enjoy "more" - than ending them ? (perhaps
"continuous Pity from, or Dependence on" other people ?, or other such desired negative benefits ?)

2. If congruently, fully & thoroughly this schtuff is getting a person the Full enjoyment out of life that they want, why give them up ?

3. But if their limitations Outweighs their benefits, both to you & others, there is a way to End the pain. That's what you get to weigh, and decide, Joe.

But consider this as well, Joe : Each person living was Born with the abilities to *end whatever pain(s)*. In fact by the time each of us as a baby has learned to walk, talk, etc ... we have proven this process to ourselves many times over, already... so, the fundamental Basis of these skills aren't new. Thus,
often, " pain " - classes serve as a Review;

as well as teach students other associated skills that they haven't been *encouraged* in, to this point in their lives; but nonetheless, obviously the surface has scarcely yet been scraped of all the choices available to us, each and all :)


You asked : How do we get around such negativities ?

I'll give you just 1 example : There are elderly people, who in decades past, suffered in Concentration-camps they were, ultimately, *delivered Alive from*. (Most Americans, thankfully, have no clue what such an experience even feels like.) Some of these people, needlessly, continue suffering/paining from the memories of such H.... .
Now, there is a simple (drug/shock-free) Process, for stopping this kind of pain, (and no, Denial ain't it, either). But
some of these people end up choosing not to complete 2 of the Essential-steps; and so - their suffering will continue.

Well, since "co-ercing, or forcing" a Person/people into "giving-up their pain(s) ", is *not* what either Steve or I are remotely interested in,
the
ultimate Choices, as well as their Results, will remain the Right of each student.

And we stop when they ask us to, Joe.

While both Steve & I know how to " Deliver the goods " we promise; and we can, and will, *offer* the way out, successfully ... the CHOICE to *voluntarily, fully, and eagerly participate ... will always rest with each of our students*.

Does that explain it better, Joe ?


Annie

[TaffyE]

[QUOTE=Annie]Hi Joe,

and neither Steve nor I " therapize " ... I s'pose we have chosen to exclude ourselves from your discussion, eh ?
~

Hi Annie,

It seems to me that what you have described is group therapy :confused:

[Annie]

Hi Taffy,

( Hi Joe,
... and neither Steve nor I " therapize " ... I s'pose we have chosen to exclude ourselves from your discussion, eh ? )
~

Taffy commented : " Hi Annie, It seems to me that what you have described is group therapy :confused: "


How many contexts actually are as they "seem" ? :) ... (and

personally having been employed in various " traditional mental individual/group Therapy settings "), Steve & I are 100% committed to guiding *each* of our class-students' success they can enjoy following few very simple guidelines.

re the word " therapy ", some definitions can be :
1. the act of caring for someone (as by drugs, devices or remedial training)
2. treatment of ill conditions, or disability ... medicine/psychotherapy
3. Healing power or quality
Regarding
these, of course Steve and I care about others' *Fun well-being*, that commonality is what drew us together.

As pertaining to our " pain " - classes : there's a monumental decisive difference between -
1. Imposing External (including harmful) treatment on another being, as is the case with too many contexts in Medicine/Psychiatry;
and
2. Guiding another Being to her/his *own self-Healing "specific" Well-spring within*.

To begin with, what about the " rapport " most NLP'ers fondly discuss, & practice;
you know, communicating using " usual/normal " senses. Yet, what about increasingly deeper levels of rapport ?
(of course, such skills can be abused also)

This I can tell you : Engaging another human Caringly, Lovingly and Emphatically at these levels of rapport, one human can help another *self-Heal*; not to be confused with God's miracles, of course ... Do you follow what I mean, Taffy ?


Annie

[TaffyE]

Hi Annie,

No not really, perhaps you could explain a little more clearly

[norbert]

Hi Joe,

Hard to answer question because it depends on the nature of the problem. But, for most issues it really comes down to the client having the correct "mind set", or mental attitude. If I don't see it and can't get it, I generally send them home and cancel further sessions. Generally they always come back. Sure helps the success rate. Much of the problem with failed therapy is the unwillingness on the part of the client to take responsibility for change. It is much easier to just stay the same, take the known, negative path. Secondary gain is a good example, or a good reason to keep our problems. Had a gal recently on pain medication that wanted to "get off", but she really didn't, she happened to like Vicodin.

But,,,,, no degree of correct mental attitude on the part of the client will make up for a lack of ability and experience on the part of the hypnotherapist. Sometimes failure results from such inexperience. Kinda like anything else, there are lots of if's, and's and buts !
EC
:cool: So that means if you bring your car to a mechanic and you pick it up later the mechanic might say to you:

"Well, ya know, we need to change the valve, but your car is mentally not ready for this yet, so we decided to blame your car and to bill you anyway?"

:D

[Merlin]

You equate the human to the machinery of a car?
interesting!

[norbert]

No Merlin,

I equate a therapist to a mechanic.

:-)

And as I believe the lie called NLP is a very powerful toolset to help humans increase their choices, I am not interested in content but process. And yes, process is an abstraction of the real world but it works.