Trance versus hypnosis

[craigylad]

Hi I am new here. I have studied hypnosis (ie read loads of books and been on the odd introductory course) on and off for about 15 years. I sort of put hypnosis on the "back burner" while I got my business up and running.

I now feel I want to start learning again and came across this forum (which I think is excellent) simply by using google.

The first thing I have noticed is the depth of knowledge available here, secondly is the friendliness on this forum towards newcomers - given the standard of the prolific writers I think that is quite a rarity. I have been on some forums in other subjects where the "big bods" operate a closed shop and woe betide any "newbie" wanting to learn something from them.

The reason I am writing this is that I have just been reading tha FAQ section that Merlin has.

She says that hypnosis and deep trance are similar but not the same. I am wondering how the observations (tell tale signs) differ between the two.

I am intrigued at this way of thinking as this is the first time I have heard this and it has turned my understanding of hypnosis on its head, and I think I know less about hypnosis now than I did 15 years ago.

I am also very interested as to how the "scripts" differ between putting someone into a deep trance and putting someone into "proper" hypnosis.

hope you can help me with this

Craig

[skip]

I cant help but wonder what 'proper' hypnosis is.

How about looking at it this way.

It is all trance. Even now you are in trance (maybe even several, opinions vary).

You certainly go into trance when you get on an elevator and come out when you come out dont you?

So lets consider trance to be some sort of continum ranging from what we call 'awake' which means we are hypnotized to believe we are aware consciously ;) , to a state called 'so zonked your mother wouldnt recognize you', some call that Esdaile. Or perhaps beyond.

Now Esdalie is so profound that people dont ever want to come out of it. And awake is ... well apparently the same. (Another little joke)

So at different points along this continum from 'awake' to 'yo mamma' you can pass thru "places"called 'light trance', 'theraputic trance', 'somnambulism', and so on and so fourth.

Now all of these 'places' have certain charactaristics. But oddly enough all hypnotic phenomena are evident at all stages. Some people say negative hallucination is an indicator of somnambulism. However I regularly negatively hallucinate both my girlfriend and my car keys, neither of which is productive for me, and both, while in the 'awake' state. Go figure?

Id be willing to bet, this, so far, has been more confusing than enlightning.

The problem is that no one really knows. You can find plenty of information about different 'levels' and the charactaristics of each. But they are really meaningless, EXCEPT for the purpose of being able to talk about hypnosis and various phenomena produced.

The real important key is one definition. Somnambulism (the state in which most theraputic work is accomplished) requires two things. Bypassing the critical faculty, and establishing selective thinking.

That is where I do most of my theraputic work. BUT I do mine very differently than you are imagining. In a typical hour session with me, the client is in somnambulism only about 3-4 minutes tota;l in roughly 5-10 second 'bursts'. The rest of the time we just have fun.

See hypnosis doesnt have to be slow, in fact the faster the better has been my experience. So I do my work, check my work, see what else needs to be done, do it check it and so on.

Change is instantaneous. We learn instantaneously. Our brains HATE slow. Our brains hate repetition, even while loving rythem.

So think about it this way. You are in and out of all hypnotic states every day all day long.

Typical hypnotic inductions try to convince the brain to slow down and remain in one specific state for a while, so the therapast can act.

And that is the way most hypnotic therapy is done. And it works well for plenty of folks.

It isnt the way it has to be.

It just got started out that way years ago, and tradition is hard.

hope that helped some.

skip

[Merlin]

guess the number i'm thinking of and i'll tell you.

[parsa]

...Three? ;)

[Merlin]

my number is pi [divided by] e
what is/was the telltale sign?

hypnosis is a state of mind. a way of thinking.
want a good sign?
suggest one. when they do it you have a sign.
eyes locked, numbers gone, hand stuck... whatever.

[parsa]

Nope, didn't get it ...1.155 :(

Just kind of close to the numerator. Does that count?

[Merlin]

my point is you just can't know another's thoughts

[Connie]

Skip...that was beautiful, perfect, elucidative...(that word just came to me, not sure what it means)...

My current trance says: Skip, you are the BEST. And I for one massively appreciate every tap of your fingers on the keyboards, or spoken word into dragon or whatever method you use to post (I doubt you would spell "rhythm" so horrifically, musta been the software.)

When we figure out how to download "smarts" and "common sense" and "clarity" directly from one mind into another--or is that what hypnosis is?---I want yours to hook up with!

[Poodle]

Ever notice Skip is very Visual? The type-o's are just his way of getting back at the rest of the world. :)

[skip]

LOL!!!

I AM very visual, except when I am kinesthetic. ;)

When I spell, I am auditory.

Poor strategy.

Very poor.

And interestingly enough, NLP's spelling strategy works for me.

I recognized it wasnt right, tried it a couple of different ways, didnt like any of them, and said, 'fugettaboutit'.

luv ya all!

skip

[Merlin]

LOL!!!

I AM very visual, except when I am kinesthetic. ;)

When I spell, I am auditory.

Poor strategy.

Very poor.

And interestingly enough, NLP's spelling strategy works for me.

I recognized it wasnt right, tried it a couple of different ways, didnt like any of them, and said, 'fugettaboutit'.

luv ya all!

skip
i spell olfactorally
boy does that strategy stink

[TTDEEB]

Change is instantaneous. We learn instantaneously. Our brains HATE slow. Our brains hate repetition, even while loving rythem.

I want to see you tell this to a group of college students after they just spent a whole night looking over their notes and studying for a final exam. Repetition definitely plays a role in learning...it is one of the principle elements.

[Don]

But repetition doesn't always play a role, does it?
If not, why do you sometimes need repetition and other times not?
1. Read X. Did you get it? No.
2. Repeat X. Did you get it? No.
3. Repeat X. Did you get it? No.
4. Repeat X. Did you get it? Yes.

Will you repeat X after you get it? No.
So what made 4 different from 1, 2, and 3?
If you could replace 1 with 4, you wouldn't have to go through 1,2, and 3, would you?

If someone knows how to work with the mind, they can make 1,2, and 3 irrelevant.

Years ago, I attended the [Arthur] Bornstein School of Memory. Since we don't allow advertising here, I'll let you look it up if you're interested. One of the things Mr. Bronstein used to do was get introduced to a crowd of 100 or more people. Just once, and he'd memorize their names. People would call out the names of different items and he'd write 20-50 of them on a large board. Then he'd walk away so he couldn't see the list. He would then repeat every item on the list. He could do this forward and backward. He could also name the item at any number.

Was this a trick? No. Did he have special abilities that others didn't have? No. He trained his students to do this. He taught how to use the mind so you could instantly memorize any fact or concept. He let you skip steps 1,2, and 3 and get right to 4.

So for some people, because they don't know how to use the mind, repetition plays a role in learning. You repeat until your mind instantaneously gets it.

Some people don't believe they can change their minds to work better. The believe rote is the only way. And for them, it is the way to learn something. They'll repeat it until they instantaneously get it.

[Docresults]

I want to see you tell this to a group of college students after they just spent a whole night looking over their notes and studying for a final exam. Repetition definitely plays a role in learning...it is one of the principle elements.

Are you sure repetition plays a role in learning or just in memorization and short term memory at that? What evidence is there of final exam questions being applied and used in a real world scenario outside of college or after college?

[skip]

That is the stupidest statement I have heard in a long time.

It demonstrates a clear lack of thought about your own experiences.

Or maybe I am wrong about you.

How many repetitions did it take you to learn, "Knife sharp!"

skip

[Poodle]

which is the stupidest statement? STOVE HOT!!

Pood :confused:

[parsa]

>>What evidence is there of final exam questions being applied and used in a real world scenario outside of college or after college?

Kind of depends what a person's "real world" consists of outside or after college, doesn't it?