Early stages of sleep?

[Siper]

Well I am completly new to hypnosis ever sence I saw Tony Lucero do some stage hypnosis do a show at my high school I've been obsessed with it. I've been interested in the mind and meditation for about 3 years now. Well I'm officially addicted to hypnosis. I am currently waiting for The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis, by: Ormond McGill from Amazon.com. I am now thinking about hypno-therapy after I graduate because it is an interesting subject for me and I have no other plans right now. I've tryed hypnosis on one of my friends and I got him to get up and get back down then I woke him up accidentally. But he says he doesn't remember any of the commands or what he did. I tryed one of the stage inductions I found on here.

Anyways, I got a book from my local library. It's,"Hypnosis, Is it for you?" So I saw something about hysteria and early stages of sleep some where in it. I don't have it any more but I was wondering is it possible to induce somnambulism before they hit the REM sleep stage? Thanks!
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Ormond%20McGill&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/102-3482161-0177714)

[ct8vnufgv]

w00+! First reply! :D
Yeah... no offense, but you shouldn't try doing hypnosis before taking a course or something. I mean, you're still reading books about it, and you've already hypnotized someone? Somehow that just seems... dangerous. Look at other threads, and you'll see all these professionals saying that you shouldn't even try if you're experimenting. Especially when you don't have a liscensed professional there to make sure nothing goes wrong. Like this one jerk says (such a temper), you wouldn't trust the local butcher to perform heart surgery, would you? Yeah...
Long story short, (too late :D) hypnotism is complicated. If something can go wrong, it will go wrong.

[Siper]

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm not going to be trying anything untill I get everything in a pile, if you will. I'm just going to gather as much information about it as I can from books and talk to some locals. Anyways is it possible to reach somnambulism at the early stages of sleep? Thanks! Sorry for the bad grammar in the first post. I forgot to look over it and then I noticed I can't edit my posts...:(

[Siper]

Sorry to double post but is it that serious that you should take a course before you try suggestive hypnosis on friends and family? That seams a little absurd. I know you are supposed to take it seriously but taking a course before you even try it... Is it THAT serious of a problem? Sorry to be ignorant on the subject but what are some of the dangers that can come from it? Every book I've seen says there's no dangers in the basic suggestive hypnosis.

[Siper]

So none of you are willing to testify that it is wrong to try hypnosis after reading The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis by Ormond McGill? Is it insanely dangerous to try suggestive hypnosis after reading Ormond's Encyclopedia? That first reply seamed a little out of the way. That's why he wrote the book to learn it right?....:confused:

[Don]

While I'm not going to mind read as to why McGill wrote this book, let me put it to you this way:

Before you can use an encyclopedia you have to learn how to read. You have to learn the shapes and sounds of the letters. You have to learn grammar. You have to learn the meaning of words. I would contend that taking a basic course in hypnosis is the equivalent of that preparation you would need to make great use of McGill's book.

However, even if a person doesn't take such a course, the book is complete enough that many people, with no preparation, will do quite well.

The problem will be with creative, intelligent people who will read the book and move to the next level, asking "What if I...?" Here is where problems can arise. Just because a person studies and specializes in pediatrics doesn't mean he or she will be an excellent brain surgeon. Just because a person studies stage hypnosis doesn't mean they'll be prepared to help people with hypnotherapy.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should "keep in their place." Rather, I'm suggesting that people do the preparation, training, and practice for whatever they want to do.

[Siper]

As of now I am not even thinking about trying hypnotherapy until I take courses. I'm just trying the basics of stage hypnosis. I want to see if I am interested in the subject because obiviously I do not know much about it. Thanks for the encouragement though...

[skip]

Before you get too upset about people offering you their opinion, you might want to read this thread:

http://forum.hypnosis.com/showthread.php?t=2895

I think it would tend to answer the question you had about experimenting on your family and friends.

Then it might do you well to consider that you asked for advice.

If you are going to respond with childish anger to advice offered at your request, just because it wasnt what you wanted to hear, then perhaps you should phrase your request, "Please experts respond, and tell me that what I want to hear." That way if any experts were to choose to respond, they would already know what to say.

Now I am going to offer something that is possibly going to excite you as well. Given your immature response to Don, I dont advise you to attempt to hypnotize anyone until you mature. Reasonably safe hypnosis requires a modicum of judgement and wisdom, neither of which you have evidenced. I am not an advocate of giving loaded pistols to 5 year olds.

And yes, it was me who deleted your last post to Don.

cheers,

skip

[Siper]

Well I wasn't planing on asking my friends what one of their best memories was while hypnotized. I do understand you can do harm to them. That's why I was going to stick with suggestions and ask them to do funny stuff like dancing or acting like a cat or something. I do have plenty of judgement, I feel that I am more mature than others of my age. It seams to me as you guys are taking this whole hypnosis thing as a job/a gift from the heavens. You guys almost seam selfish about this and act like only certain people can do this. It is for learning purposes and studying the human mind not trying to tell some one they are not mature enough to learn. Like every other book I've read in my local library about hypnosis. They say it's more simple than most people think. This forum acts like they are all gifted and you have to be 40 years old to do this.

Once again, like I said I am not planing on asking them anything personal. Let alone askign them anything. I do meditation and I see it being very similar. You guys seam quite selfish on this subject like you guys are the best and no one else can do this.

[Siper]

About the not hearing what I wanted to hear. He could have been a little more kind to a youngun'. Teenagers feelings can be hurt a lot more easily coming from an adult because we are the ones that look up to you guys. But disscouraging us from something we are interested in and telling us to learn grammar and how to read. THAT'S WHY WE ARE IN SCHOOL. WE AREN'T IN THERE FOR NO REASON. I am still in the learning process of life. There's no need to be crude to a young one like me. I was asking you guys for help and I thought this forum would have nice people in here. Apparently all I've gotten out of this is that hypnotherapists are all stuck up and think they are better than everyone else.

[Terry (existing)]

Actually, non of us will likely be giving you any information in future. We have no wish to waste our valuable time on brats. Fact is, you are now on my ignore list with the rest of the hangers on who place no value on our knowledge.

[Siper]

Fact is? Are you kidding man? I do not care. Fact is, you are xxx. :p

[Poodle]

You will find that Skip, a Moderator, has posted a link on a session with Dr. Erickson. If that link is still there, a section to the right has stage hypnosis which is live, not read from a book. Look at the shows and see if this is indeed what you want to do with your life. Stage hypnosis may be one of the hardest aspects of hypnosis as you are constantly having to over come obstacles at county fairs like pigs squeeling and all other kinds of distractions. It is not until you have really paid your dues and are extremely good do you get a show in Vegas or other better venues. You will not have a personal life of much unless your other travels with you and traveling can get very old very fast. Just had one traveling through here. It was free but I didn't go.

[Poodle]

I stepped in the middle of this one, huh? I thought the lad wanted to know about stage hypnosis. Apparently he wants to play hypnotist with his soon to be ex-friends. Anything in the hands of an untrained kid is a recipe for D I S A S T E R!!

MODERATORS: PLEASE REMOVE MY PREVIOUS POST. THANKS MUCH POOD!!

[Don]

Well I wasn't planing on asking my friends what one of their best memories was while hypnotized. I do understand you can do harm to them. That's why I was going to stick with suggestions and ask them to do funny stuff like dancing or acting like a cat or something.

Siper, while I encourage your investigations, you seem to already be going to the "what if...?" section that can cause problems. A person acts like a cat and feels humiliate, abused, horrified. Remember, I suggested that you stick with the book! If you use your imagination as you have indicated, you could cause untold problems.


I do have plenty of judgement, I feel that I am more mature than others of my age.

Respectfully, I felt the same way when I was very young. In fact, most people I know feel that way. Question: is it possible that feeling that way is just a natural part of being a teen/young adult and not representative of the actuality?

It seams to me as you guys are taking this whole hypnosis thing as a job/a gift from the heavens. You guys almost seam selfish about this and act like only certain people can do this.

I think that all of the pros here actively welcome anyone who wants to study, practice, learn, and do hypnosis! The problem is that because of movies, novels, cartoons, comic books, etc., people have tremendous misinformation about what hypnosis is and how it is practiced. From your posts you seem (and I could certainly be wrong about this) to think that all you'll need to do is read a book or two and do a little practice and you'll be a master stage hypnotist. That may not be the way you feel, but it is what is coming across to me in your posts. It's just not that easy. That's why I strongly suggest taking training. There are several good stage hypnosis trainers in the U.S. McGill's book could be a manual for any of the courses, but it's like the difference between reading how to throw a curve ball and actually throwing one.

I also do sleight of hand magic. I could show you how to perform a sleight in a few seconds. But it could take weeks, months, or years of practice before you attain the dexterity and skill I have. Or it might only take a few seconds. There's no way of telling until you actually do it, and the best way to do that is under the guidance of a professional.

It is for learning purposes and studying the human mind not trying to tell some one they are not mature enough to learn. Like every other book I've read in my local library about hypnosis. They say it's more simple than most people think. This forum acts like they are all gifted and you have to be 40 years old to do this.

Okay. Here's a simple way to hypnotize a person. Go up to him and say, "Sleep!" If you know what you're doing it's really that simple. My guess, however, is that with this advanced knowledge you can't use it.

It is true that on some theoretical levels hypnosis is simpler than most people think. And as you can see from the advanced knowledge I just gave you, the practice of induction can be much simpler than presented in so many books, websites, and recordings.

But the question is, then what? Do you humiliate them on stage, making them forever feel horrible and perhaps needing psychological help? Your "cat" comment sounds like you would.

Hypnotizing is simple. It's what you do after someone is hypnotized that can be complex.

Once again, like I said I am not planing on asking them anything personal. Let alone askign them anything. I do meditation and I see it being very similar. You guys seam quite selfish on this subject like you guys are the best and no one else can do this.

Some of the people here are the best. They are the best because they have studied and trained with experts. They are the best because they have studied hundreds of books. They are the best because they have practiced for years.

Once again, I encourage you to study McGill's book. I encourage you to train with one or more experts. Just a few months ago I took two trainings with different expert teachers. I had to save money to afford it, then get up early and drive many miles to get the training. Why? Because I want to be better at my craft.

But here's the really great things. I think that most people can easily become great hypnotists. They can do it if they train and practice what they have been trained in. So read the books and practice what is taught there without going to the "what if I...?" level. Get some trainings. I think you'll do just great!

[Siper]

Thanks Don, that's just it. I am planing on taking courses in the future. Like you said, I have to save up for it. Thing's don't just happen. That's why I got the book. Where did everyone else here start? A 2000 dollar course without looking at a book? I am not interested in doing Stage hypnosis as a career. I am only trying to get started in the basics for now. I realize I'm not good at it. That's why lately I've been going to my library and searchign the web to suck in as much information I could get.

So far, I love it. It's a very interesting subject for me. I've been trying to look for a hobby/career like this my whole life. I've always gotten bored of hobbies pretty quick but this one seams to be very appealing to me. I'm not trying to look into the future and what I'll be doing. I'm living my life right now day by day. So as for now I've been doing what I can. Yes, I will try to take training as soon as I can.

I was just asking about the stages of sleep and if that's possible because I wanted to learn. I had a question and no books so far have answered it. So I went to you guys that are aparently one of the best. Sorry for trying to learn.:( Thanks guys!

The reason I haven't asked about hypnotherapy is because I know that is what training is for. I wasn't planing on reading a book and trying to use hypnosis on therapy. I realize it can be VERY dangerous. I am just trying to learn the basics for now, then see how it goes from there. Thanks again!

[teadaze]

You asked for advice, didn't get the answer you wanted....so started insulting the very people you wanted to learn from...
Doh!

[Siper]

They insulted me first so I wasn't just gonna sit there and say sorry and take it. That's not how I am.

[Jack]

Hello Siper,

Learn how to hypnotise. Enjoy it. Then learn more - there is always more to learn. As you learn more you will understand what Skip, Don and others are saying.

Avoid running before learning to walk, and you will be ok. If you run before you walk you will fall over at some point and hurt both yourself and others.

Jack

[Five]

Siper, there is a very important lesson for you right here in the conversations in this thread.
Learn to NOT get insulted.
Your are under no obligation to feel insulted at anytime by anyone. Let it pass.

Learn to NOT respond in kind when the tone is negative/unpleasant.
Keep your cool, keep your poise, keep your confidence; let the other flounder around in his bad thoughts and feelings.

[Siper]

Alright, well thanks guys. I appricieate the help! I'm waiting for Ormonds book and I'm gonna try to suck as much information up as I can and go from there.

[Merlin]

Hypnosis and sleep are very, very different.

[Jack]

Merlin is right when she says that the hypnotic state and sleep are different, but they are also similar in that they are both altered states of awareness.

Jack

[Merlin]

An Aardvark and a cabbage are both similar too.
They're both organic :)

[Poodle]

My mothers dictionary from 1960 says that hypnosis is sleep and that we induce sleep. At least we are gaining ground! I'm not even all that thrilled with the definition the US Govt. has given it but as we do it, it has to be called something. Maybe I should write a fairy tale about The Adventures of Something. We can't have people in the USA doing something that has no definition. How would we pay our taxes? I don't even know if I would go with "altered state of awareness". Awareness of what - my voice or not, depends? Exactly what do they mean by altered? I can "alter" states in NLP but it's not quite the same.

[Jack]

An Aardvark and a cabbage are both similar too.
They're both organic :)

LOL! I see where your error is now - you have been eating aardvarks and believing them to be cabbages.;)

Jack

[Jack]

Hi Poodle,

The word 'hypnosis' (Greek Hypnos and all that...) is based upon the fallacy that hypnosis is actually sleep simply because the two states look like each other to an uncritical observer.

I think it is an anomaly and should be corrected, as I've mentioned several times before, but with what do you replace it?

To me an altered state in this context is one which is altered from that which we consider to be our normal state of awareness - that of conscious, logical processing using external sensory input. Certainly the hypnotic trance would fall within that definition, and the NLP 'trance' would also since in my opinion there is no difference between the two - they are both an inward focus of awareness in which the critical faculty of the logical consciousness is suspended.

Some people believe that there is a difference between trance and hypnosis, but I do not, since the evidence does not remotely suggest that there is a difference. But, you pays your money, and you takes your pick.

Jack

[Merlin]

Isn't belief enough?? <LOL>

[Jack]

Have you ever tasted an aardvark?

Jack
Isn't belief enough?? <LOL>

[skip]

Yes, they taste a lot like boiled cabbage!

[Terry (existing)]

Yes, they taste a lot like boiled cabbage! Ah Skip, you mention my favourite food. Capusta, cabbage rolls, and yes even just plain old cabbage soup, I love them all, and they are wonderful diet foods as well, which is an extra as I no longer excercise and am getting a pot belly... Anyone with an Ardvark willing to send me a taste?

[Jack]

Look, I'm not going to be out-ardvaarked here - aardvarks are very similar in taste to hedgehogs and hedgehogs do not taste like cabbage. Also cabbage and Chablis do not mix well, whereas a decent hedgehog goes well with both Chablis and Guinness.

However, cabbage does taste much like an elderly European Lynx, and has a similar odour. I rest my case.

(I cannot prove the later statement since they are extinct in England - cabbages, that is).

Jack

Yes, they taste a lot like boiled cabbage!

[Merlin]

Aardvark is only good fresh.
It wilts as it ages.

[Jack]

There is nothing like a well hung aardvark. Ask any lady aardvark.

Jack

[skip]

Alas isnt that ever the way with us all?

[Merlin]

>There is nothing like a well hung aardvark. Ask any lady aardvark.

Are you speaking from personal experience?

[Merlin]

Speak for yourself Skip.
I youthen ;)

[accumulator]

Siper...

kudos Don , many good things about that post, that youngun is very fortunate.

[Poodle]

I doubt if there is ever a "real" definition until dear old science has figured out what we do and comes up with something which will undoubtedly have nothing to do with what we do or do we do what we do. Trance is trance but I've found a really good NLP trance to be much more profound when done at the Trainer's level. That's beyond description! Good possibility of why Therapeutic Meta4's is soooo interesting to me. I want to get there NOW! I think I read every page 25 times just delighting in it.

[Jack]

I would hesitate to describe any of my ladies as an aardvark, some were indeed ardwork, and one was a definite moose, but with a pleasant temperament. Several have mentioned I ought to be well hung and are willing to provide the rope. ;)

Jack
>There is nothing like a well hung aardvark. Ask any lady aardvark.

Are you speaking from personal experience?