Induction Question

[sjm1027]

When I do a first Induction I usually use progressive relaxation.
I start with head, work down... then do Ego strengthening, then a deepner and on to the script (weight loss) in most cases. then bring them up.

Am I missing anything in the order??

Thanks,
Steve

[Don]

Two things.
1) convincers
2) You sound like you're following an induction script. If they're in trance after 15 seconds, abandon the script and move to deepeners. If they're not in trance after the induction, use a different induction.

You do know signs of induction, don't you? You do know convincers, don't you?

But the real question is this: is it working? If it's working, you're doing everything right. If it's not working, do something else. How do you tell if it's working? Well, is the person you're helping into trance losing weight? If they are, it's working. If they're not, it's not working.

[Poodle]

You seem to be lacking an in-person training. We do not do "Relax-o-therapy" around here.

1. Learn some inductions (including Elman, Confusion, rapid and instants)

2. Do some "convincers" so the client knows s/he is in a hypnotic trance

3. Include ego strengthening in with the weight management and NEVER READ A SCRIPT AT A CLIENT. Learn to use your own mind and that of your client. That person sitting in that chair knows more about why they are that way than you ever will.

3. Now you can emerge.

4 Go read Merlin's FAQ

[sjm1027]

Hi Don,
Thanks for your response:
To answer your questions, Yes I am following an induction script that I put together using bits and pieces of class material as well as pieces I extracted from client.
For an induction I usually I read a progressive relaxation to them on the first meeting if they are ready to go into hypnosis.
On the 2nd meeting I use Blackboard induction or Dave Elman Induction
On the 3rd meeting I use Dave Elman induction
I then move into a deepener (breathing)
Then I do the convincer (eye catalepsy) if all goes well I go into the Suggestions
Yes Don I do know signs of induction (eye fluttering , face twitch) and so on. As far as convincers I would appreciate it if you could explain what you do. I try to have the client open there eyes for a brief moment then tell them to stop.
It is working but not as fast as I think it should, they do well but slip backward a bit on 2nd or 3rd visit.
But progressively do ok. One client has taken 8 months to lose 25 pounds. Seems a bit long to me. They have 75 more to go.

Thanks
Steve

Two things.
1) convincers
2) You sound like you're following an induction script. If they're in trance after 15 seconds, abandon the script and move to deepeners. If they're not in trance after the induction, use a different induction.

You do know signs of induction, don't you? You do know convincers, don't you?

But the real question is this: is it working? If it's working, you're doing everything right. If it's not working, do something else. How do you tell if it's working? Well, is the person you're helping into trance losing weight? If they are, it's working. If they're not, it's not working.

[sjm1027]

Hi Pood,
Answers below:

You seem to be lacking an in-person training. We do not do "Relax-o-therapy" around here.
I know what you mean but I have had very good success with clients on a first visit... the clients that seem a little nervous to start. They seem to like the experiences because it eases them into it.

1. Learn some inductions (including Elman, Confusion, rapid and instants)

I do know these inductions, I use the blackboard Induction as a confusion induction. Am I correct in thinking this way? Can you give me some examples please?


2. Do some "convincers" so the client knows s/he is in a hypnotic trance

I do ask them to open their eyes... they don't seem to want to.

3. Include ego strengthening in with the weight management and NEVER READ A SCRIPT AT A CLIENT. Learn to use your own mind and that of your client. That person sitting in that chair knows more about why they are that way than you ever will.

I agree with that comment. I have experience as I have lost 146 pounds through hypnosis 15 months ago. That's how I got started.

3. Now you can emerge.

4 Go read Merlin's FAQ

I will, thanks

[Poodle]

You do not "ask" the client to open their eyes -- you say: TRY IN VAIN to open your eyes because those eyes are stuck together just as if they had super glue on them, just locked down tight shut with super glue. or here's another way: Your eyelids are locked tightly together and you will find it amuzing how tight, tight, tight they are locked. Your eyelids are locked tightly together and you cannot open your eyes no matter how hard you try and try, the tighter they become. And you might try -- go ahead. I dare you to find with some amuzement and delight that you cannot. (Elman ordered people. He did not ask.)

Okay. You can stop trying now and just continue to relax deeper down. So using Elman, how does the mental relaxation work? Well or not?

You can also work around this by telling them there is a window at the top of their head and to look out that window. You can also hold an index finger at the bridge of the nose so eyes cannot open.

Another is to pick up client's arm and holding it out straight tell client it is becoming stiff and rigid, rigid and stiff, stiff and rigid and no matter how hard they try to bend that arm it will stay stiff and rigid. Try in vain to bend that arm as it's just like a steel rod. (They cannot) so take a hand and touch the arm with the command of Relax.

Also fun to make arms heavy or light.

There is one book on Merlin's list you need to read: Hypnosis: A Comprehensive Guide.

Losing weight should not be FAST. Fast is unhealthy. Go for 2 pounds/week and make sure client does 40 minutes of cardio followed by 20 minutes of lifting weights (if approved by their physician). Also do not up water a whole lot as that will mess with the electrolytes. It is totally amazing how much weight our talented Connie here lost with hypnosis. She can tell you how well it works and she is a walking and talking endorsement of her own work.

Have you learned arm/wrist/hand catalepsy?

There are differing types of people in the world. Some people do not mind "taking orders" while others will not. Usually on the first visit, the client is a bit nervous so that's a good reason not to use "relax-o-therapy".

That book should help you out quite a bit. If possible, please try to find a better training. After you finish that book, read Training Trances by Julie Silverthorn. I'm sure you can find it on Amazon or equivalent used for not much money at all. We just don't seem to run out of good books around here.

(I'm not being critical of you. We just don't like people saying: Well, I tried hypnosis and it just didn't work for me.) This type of statement hurts everyone of us in this profession.

Be well~Pood :)

[Don]

Well, if it's working then you're doing fine. 8 months to lose 25 pounds may seem long to you, but if it's the right speed in the client's mind then you're doing fine. If no, ask their subconscious to speed things up.

For convincers I use heavy eyes, heavy legs, heavy arms, or whatever seems appropriate, turning it into a deepener at the conclusion.

[sjm1027]

Embedded answers below:

You do not "ask" the client to open their eyes -- you say: TRY IN VAIN to open your eyes because those eyes are stuck together just as if they had super glue on them, just locked down tight shut with super glue. or here's another way: Your eyelids are locked tightly together and you will find it amuzing how tight, tight, tight they are locked. Your eyelids are locked tightly together and you cannot open your eyes no matter how hard you try and try, the tighter they become. And you might try -- go ahead. I dare you to find with some amuzement and delight that you cannot. (Elman ordered people. He did not ask.)

Okay. You can stop trying now and just continue to relax deeper down. So using Elman, how does the mental relaxation work? Well or not?

Pood, I do not ask them to open their eyes, I do ask them to try and the heavy lids too. Sorry I tend to type short cuts, I will be more complete with my answers in the future.

You can also work around this by telling them there is a window at the top of their head and to look out that window. You can also hold an index finger at the bridge of the nose so eyes cannot open.

I love the window thing!! Might even try it for my self hypnosis.

Another is to pick up client's arm and holding it out straight tell client it is becoming stiff and rigid, rigid and stiff, stiff and rigid and no matter how hard they try to bend that arm it will stay stiff and rigid. Try in vain to bend that arm as it's just like a steel rod. (They cannot) so take a hand and touch the arm with the command of Relax.

Also fun to make arms heavy or light.

I will try this, never had to much luck with the arms early on so I stopped and worked with the eyes most of the time.

There is one book on Merlin's list you need to read: Hypnosis: A Comprehensive Guide.

I will certainly look this book up later tonight. Always looking for a good hypnosis book.

Losing weight should not be FAST. Fast is unhealthy. Go for 2 pounds/week and make sure client does 40 minutes of cardio followed by 20 minutes of lifting weights (if approved by their physician). Also do not up water a whole lot as that will mess with the electrolytes. It is totally amazing how much weight our talented Connie here lost with hypnosis. She can tell you how well it works and she is a walking and talking endorsement of her own work.

I have also lost a good amount of weight, 146 pounds in 15 months. I actually enjoy working out and can't wait to go on the Elliptical each evening, it relaxes me now. Before it make me nervous to walk anywhere near it and it also made a great coat rack. :)

Have you learned arm/wrist/hand catalepsy?

There are differing types of people in the world. Some people do not mind "taking orders" while others will not. Usually on the first visit, the client is a bit nervous so that's a good reason not to use "relax-o-therapy".

That book should help you out quite a bit. If possible, please try to find a better training. After you finish that book, read Training Trances by Julie Silverthorn. I'm sure you can find it on Amazon or equivalent used for not much money at all. We just don't seem to run out of good books around here.

I will read the book, sounds good

(I'm not being critical of you. We just don't like people saying: Well, I tried hypnosis and it just didn't work for me.) This type of statement hurts everyone of us in this profession.

Be well~Pood :)

Thanks Pood, I know your not being critical, in fact I learn so much here form all of you. During my Certification class, after my classes and while I was trying to get my first few clients you all have been here to coach me through a question or two. Of course from time to time I may ask something that you or others think are dumb or newbie... but that's all part of the learning... I appreciate the great feedback you, Don, Connie and others give. I am still green, but every day I am getting better and better.
And sometimes I love it when you give me a little whack to keep my questions in line... It makes me smile! ;D

Thank You
Steve

[Poodle]

If the arm stiff and rigid is NOT working, the client is NOT paying attention to you. You have lost them somewhere towards the beginning. That can mean two separate things: 1. lack of rapport or 2. switch inductions so client doesn't even know you have switched them. We always say: If it isn't working, DO SOMETHING ELSE -- AND THAT MEANS ANYTHING ELSE. Dr. Matt may have some inductions written out towards the very bottom of this Forum. It's been a long, long time since I've looked. Go see what you can find to learn.

Please locate a good training and GO! Books are never a substitute for a good training...just wonderful additions to one.

Where is your instructor? Does s/he not stand behind students? Did this instructor take your money and leave without teaching you the necessities of this profession?

You also may enjoy reading "Magic In Action" by Richard Bandler. Pay strict attention to the third paragraph on the back cover of the book. He can always "sum" something up beautifully.

YES! I LOOKED AND DR. MATT HAS A LOT OF INDUCTIONS WRITTEN OUT. LEARN THEM -- ALL OF THEM!!

Good luck~Pood ;)

[sjm1027]

My Instructor would help if I asked.. chalk it up to being over 50 and a little rusty in class I guess. :)

Where is your instructor? Does s/he not stand behind students? Did this instructor take your money and leave without teaching you the necessities of this profession?

[Poodle]

So using Elman, how does the mental relaxation work? Well or not? I'm guessing "or not" since you seem to be losing the client very early in the session

love the window thing!! Might even try it for my self hypnosis. It's really a cheat so don't count on it.

Have you learned arm/wrist/hand catalepsy?

Yes, I remember when you posted before and I was wondering to myself why you did not study with another CI in your State that I know pretty well.

As for buying Hypnosis: A Comprehensive Guide -- the best price just may be right here with Dr. Matt or it was when I was looking for it.

Get to work~Pood :)

[Connie]

I'm still losing weight. And it's good.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6682/faces2c.jpg

Here's an idea for you, Steve. You mention: I do this induction on session 1, and this induction on session 2, and THIS induction on session 3. Here's a shortcut. Set a post-hypnotic suggestion/trigger to rehypnosis on the first session, once you've got them good and tranced. When they come in for subsequent sessions, fire it! Boom. Down, instantly. ("under," right Poodle? :D ) I use a verbal trigger. It'll save you so much time, so you can get right to the important work.

I had a client come in yesterday for session 2 (new issue, 10 months ago she had one session for smoking cessation--SMOKEFREE 10 months now!!) and I fired off the trigger I had set then. Down she went! Into "la la world" as she called it! :) For a first session, I use a modified Elman, or sometimes instants!

[Poodle]

"the magic trance gun". Pull imaginary trigger "Got cha" and all the waaaaay doooooown. Are we 'normal' but then comes the question -- normal as compared to whom?

I caught Terry peeking in this week so sent him a fast PM. I miss him, a lot.