Hypnosis vs. Trance

[AhavatYisrael]

Hello all,

I've noticed that some of the members (especially Merlin) have made a distinction between a trance and hypnosis. From what I can gather, it seems hypnosis is more effective than inducing trance and deepening said trance to a level necessary for whatever therapy is needed, so why exactly does anyone bother with inducing a trance as opposed to using hypnosis?

Also, are there any books that maybe address this issue? Or any that present both methods in detail?



Thank you, looking forward to your responses. :)




-Chaim

[Merlin]

Hello Chaim, welcome!

>so why exactly does anyone bother with inducing a trance as opposed to using hypnosis?

Mostly, people confuse the two.
They think any trance is hypnosis.

[Alonso]

Well, there are many kind of trances. Hypnotherapists even believe that any kind of state is a trance and that any kind of communication is hypnosis. Now, before you get confused, Eastern meditative disciplines also believe in the fact that their categorizations are not absolute, in other words if you look at them a certain way they disappear and all that is left is whatever there is you know.

Now, hypnosis believes in structuring its knowledge in such a way that a special kind of trance can be created. Its characteristics are basically that a person be able to create a new phenomenal world where it is not tied down by its usual limitations, hence being able to vreate and act in ways that are conducive to problem solving and that were not available before. That is hypnotic trance, and nothing more in a sense.

There are many bodies of knowledge in the world that use the term trance in their own ways. Its been used in religion, in drug experiences, in therapy as is this case, and so forth. Every one of these fields has a different purpose in mind no matter how similar they may seem. Hence, people come across the term in the context that its being used and practice achieving the state described therein. That's all.

But hypnosis is in fact a trance of therapeutic applications. And it may cross over with other notions in a sense because theorists believe for example that the immediate and sometimes surprising results achieved with it are akin to religious spontaneous healing. In fact, hypnosis is the field that most closely recreates that phenomena, that defends it absolutely, that tries to recreate it in its own right, and that models ways that are reproducible and that lead to the same results.

E.L. Rossi is a good example of a more sober approach. He is one of the oldest hypnotherapists alive that was part of the renaissance that took place in this century with hypnosis. Not too long ago he suffered I believe a stroke and had face paralysis in half of his face. He was able to cure himself of it. Now he continues studying the concept of healing through hypnosis. He is absolutely in love with the knowledge brought about by modern scientific research. He in a sense believes that a hypnotherapist can train himself to in a sense create therapeutic trances based on this new knowledge and cure. Cool huh, even before there are machines and processes and experiments already carried out, he believes that the mind is powerful enough to in a sense run its own machine and be able to bring about what scientists are right now trying to do. It sounds far out but its no different from what hypnotists believed about people from the beginning, it is just them being dreamers and taking it to the limit.

I hope that sort of takes you in a good direction. And about the books, well, you might want to read books by Milton Erickson, he did a good job of documenting his work. It wont focus so specifically but I believ if you read his complete works you will find relevant articles that deal with that subject very directly.

[AnthonyM83]

So how does a good hypnotist distinguish between having just trance or just really really good relaxation and actually having hypnosis?

Signs I've been told to notice are lacrimation, feet relaxing to the sides (rather than perpendicular to ground), rapid eye movement, flushing of the skin, deep rolling breathing...but I haven't found those to be good signs of actual hypnosis...some are just signs of relaxation or visualization. I haven't been able to get hypnotic phenomena based on those signs. (Examples are pain control or stage show type effects, such as gluing hand to lap).

[Jack]

Hello Chaim,

The words trance and hypnosis are just different words. The effect is the same.

Both words are poor descriptions of the altered state of awareness which is an hypnotic trance.

Jack

[Terry (existing)]

Let me see if I can make it really simple without leading you in the wrong direction. Daydreaming is a trance state, as I'm sure you will agree, but it isn't hypnosis, because hypnosis requires that a mind must be reprogramed or controlled, in order for hypnosis to exist OK? Also, when we use the word "trance", the imagination is directed to a state of relaxation, and eye closure, not to hypnosis per se.... A good practitioner can place you into an altered state which is outwardly undetectable, without eye closure, or any form of relaxation, in fact in some experiments, a person played cards with three others, and at times was directed seruptitiously into trance by a trigger action, and at others played in the normal state. The other players couldn't tell the difference. Now you may not understand all I have said, but that will require you to do some studying for yourself. However, I hope this explanation is sufficiently clear to give you a better understanding of why we must be careful with the words we use, and what we understand by them. You could for example be quite correct if you said "Hypnotic Trance", but still be misunderstanding what that meant in your own mind.....

[AhavatYisrael]

I do have a better understanding. I have had a good idea of what a trance is, the hypnosis has been a bit harder to understand (that is, afterall, what they make books for), but the responses thus far have helped much :). I find this very interesting because due to what I have been told, my own research (and my own ignorrance :)), until now I have used the terms hypnosis, trance etc. interchangeably.

Thank you for tolerating me :)

-Chaim

[Alonso]

Well, it would seem that to get to hypnosis you would need to add in the component of creating a therapeutic experience for the client. So, you lead him into trance, or relaxation, what you feel is good enough for that person to step out of his world for a moment and hear what you are going to tell him... then you tell him the metaphors you chose, whatever stories you want to tell him, etc. That would be taking him into hypnosis.

[Don]

The real problem with this question is that if you put 10 professional hypnotists in a room, you'll get 15 different definitions of trance and 20 different definitions of hypnosis.

To my mind, "trance" is simply the state of mind you are in. If you're deeply involved with work, school, or sports, you're in the trance known as "in the zone." If you're driving, you might be in the trance called "highway hypnosis." If you're watching TV you're in the trance called "I'm a moron wasting my life!" :)

Hypnosis, IMO, is simply a particular type of trance which has a conscious induction. Hypnotherapy involves the induction of trance (i.e., since there is a conscious induction, it is a hypnotic trance) within a therapeutic context.

Frankly, though, all of this is meaningless. All the talking and defining in the world doesn't mean a thing. What is valid is actually doing the work. If I help you change your life for the better, do you really care what it's called? Why don't we just call it "Oswald?" ;)