View Full Version : Hypnotism as self defence
twelveways
12-12-2005, 08:02 PM
I was wondering if it would be possible to use hypnotism as self defence if a drunk or drugged person were to attack you?
I think that a skilled hypnotist may be able to use a rapid confusion technique on an assailant in a situation like a bar-fight or a taxi rank brawl and render them incapable for at least a vital few seconds. Although the recipient would not be consenting to hypnotism, he is also not not consenting. I think that the drunken state would make the assailant much more susceptible and allow for much quicker induction, he would be under before he knew it. This would probably not be possible on a frenzied attacker but a casual drunken brawler of the football hooligan variety would, in my opinion, be a good candidate. Obviously ethics are not in question as this hypothetical situation is, potentially, a life or death one.
I would like to know your views on the subject and any experiences, first or second hand you may have. Please dont post just to flame me.
12:cool:
Twelveways, you're focusing on theory rather than practice, and sometimes the best theories in the world don't work out in the real world. My suggestion: go to a bar, find someone who is drunk and about twice your size. If they're wearing gang colors, so much the better. Then pick a fight and use any induction you want on them.
Report back to us on your result...
after you heal.
:)
betlamed
12-13-2005, 01:38 AM
I prefer suggestions such as "See, you're so much stronger than me, and I'm a poor little weewee, and so it's not worth to beat me up since my daddy is so rich and my lawyers are that much better than yours."
Maybe I would leave the last part out though.
And no, I never actually tried it. I'm a coward. But at least I'm healthy.
:-)
bl
Tell them you are a professional hypnotist, and in the moment of confusion as they try to think of a smart comment crack them over the head with a bottle.
Joking aside, it is possible to use NLP to deflect aggression and an attempted hypnotic rapid induction might give you sufficient time to make a run for it. I would not rely on either for your physical safety.
Jack
deep structure
12-13-2005, 04:49 AM
The orientals have had a great confusion technique for centuries. Its the shout that they give before or during a counter attack. If done with focus and intent it can totally disorientate any aggressor without you having to actually hit them.
Plus they will think they're dealing with a lunatic.
This shout is spelt KIAI, but some modern martial artists have changed it to use a verity of noises. When shouted as it is spelt KI AI it will focus your energy and defocuse theirs.
Another good word is NO. make it earsplitting and rapid.
Let me hear your battle cry.
DS
Hello Twelveways,
I think conversational techniques are best if you're acting as a peacemaker. In dangerous situations with drunk people you can cause some suggestible disorientation very easily with a bit of linguistic manipulation. Other than that, I've always thought it best to use non-verbal skills to judge weather a situation is, or is turning, nasty, and to avoid or leave it. After all, someone who wants to fight strangers is probably not someone you want to now anyway.
Simple Guy
12-13-2005, 09:47 AM
Twelveways,
It is only possible, not at all likely.
Having said that, I'm musing over what an NLPer related
to me recently. He said that a prominent trainer claimed that he
used a "pattern interrupt" to hypnotize an armed mugger. I don't
know if this is true or not. "Street smarts" and the ability to maintain
oneself (physically and emotionally), confidence (and humility), rapport
skills and the like are what matters most in the kinds of
situations you spoke of (even for most experienced hypnotists).
It's also best to avoid drunken idiots and when this is not possible, to
get out of their way.
solaris152000
12-13-2005, 10:08 AM
I assume you (the original poster) are refering to Derren Browns Pure Effect?
I guess it is possible, a punch in the face however can do the job.
Kung fu ftw.
irisheye
12-13-2005, 11:34 AM
wasn't this topic discussed in nlp weekly?
btw,we have to stop meeting like this sol.
solaris152000
12-13-2005, 12:33 PM
wasn't this topic discussed in nlp weekly?
btw,we have to stop meeting like this sol.
:confused::confused::confused:
DaNgErOuS
12-13-2005, 01:13 PM
well if you got a gun and named it NLP i bet NLP could get you out of many a fight! lol
phill
12-13-2005, 04:17 PM
twelveways, i re-count, tad? or someone, having parked somewhere, where there was a no parking sign, and a marine came up to him and was like "HEY WHY DID YOU PARK THERE!" and so tad? was like "I DONT KNOW I DIDNT SEE THE SIGN?!" and with that instant rapport, the guy was like "ah dont worry about it, lets go get a beer".
So what his advice is to use non confrontive language, match their voice(to acknowledge their anger). Non-confrontive body language id guess too...
What deep structure mentioned about KI AI was interesting - you would really have to FOCUS with a really strong INTENT, and put your energy behind it. Besides looking like a bit of a maniac, it would work.
From what i have learnt to do, you stop the fight occouring in the first place. You know, you accidentally spill the guys beer, (or he thinks you do), just buy him another one.
twelveways
12-13-2005, 04:51 PM
Some interesting replies, thanks.
Obviously avoiding the trouble in the first place would be best, but trouble is not always avoidable.
I posted this question as I had just returned from a night out and had seen at least 3 kickings happening down the main street in the course of the evening and I often find myself wondering how hypnotism could change a situation.
I suppose the KI AI thing is similar to the gestures and movements made by a lot of eastern warriors, all to do with taking the enemies mind off the battle, even for a second.
I posted this question as I had just returned from a night out and had seen at least 3 kickings happening down the main street in the course of the evening and I often find myself wondering how hypnotism could change a situation.
Perhaps hypnosis is best used in that situation to convince you not to intervene. It's hard not to want to help, but sometimes, for your own safety, you have to let natural selection take its course. :D
Terry (existing)
12-14-2005, 08:56 AM
Perhaps hypnosis is best used in that situation to convince you not to intervene. It's hard not to want to help, but sometimes, for your own safety, you have to let natural selection take its course. :D You must live in a very strange neighbourhood (G)....
You must live in a very strange neighbourhood (G)....
No more than the rest of the UK. We have a lot of pubs in the town centre and a lot of idiots who drink in them... The police usually let them fight to a standstill then arrest them. It's just best to avoid them all, really.
We have a lot of pubs in the town centre and a lot of idiots who drink in them... The police usually let them fight to a standstill then arrest them. It's just best to avoid them all, really.
I thought the ending of a required closing time was supposed to stop this problem. Hasn't the supposed effectiveness kicked in, yet?
If I've got it right, it's not that everyone can just open 24 hours a day. You still have to apply to the local licensing committee, who can turn you down. The thing of it is that people still go out at the same time and drink at a natural rate because they have the same amount of money/drinking capacity/commitments, so the licensing law change doesn't really change anything.
Terry (existing)
12-14-2005, 10:48 AM
No more than the rest of the UK. We have a lot of pubs in the town centre and a lot of idiots who drink in them... The police usually let them fight to a standstill then arrest them. It's just best to avoid them all, really.
Yes, now I think about it, I did notice last time I was over that it was almost the only relaxation in the UK to go to the club or the pub and drink. Too bad really, and such a waste of time that might be better spent...
Frog420
12-21-2005, 01:35 PM
twelveways, i re-count, tad? or someone, having parked somewhere, where there was a no parking sign, and a marine came up to him and was like "HEY WHY DID YOU PARK THERE!" and so tad? was like "I DONT KNOW I DIDNT SEE THE SIGN?!" and with that instant rapport, the guy was like "ah dont worry about it, lets go get a beer".
So what his advice is to use non confrontive language, match their voice(to acknowledge their anger). Non-confrontive body language id guess too...
I have to agree with Phill here, Match your opponents tone and volume and speed of voice no matter how much they are shouting and reduce your voice to normal at a slow rate, with luck youll find they start following you and by the timeyour speaking at your normal rate you should find they have calmed down to your level and are wondering wht the fuss was all about, i remember Paul Mcenna saying how he used this technique during a hecticdinner or something... well thats my two cents
Merry christmas all :)
Black
12-24-2005, 05:10 AM
There is a difference between drunk and drugged people. Drugged people sometimes have very different reality than most people have. So it is best to avoid them because no "logical" explanations can help you. Run away if you can.
Betlamed, there is nothing worse than saying what you suggested :). Also matching a person's voice even if he's shouting is not a good idea. One of the best things you can do is to act like you know the person for ages. Use words like man, dude, mate... whatever is appropriate in your area. Your tonality should be as if he asked you for a direction.
sy-27
12-24-2005, 05:27 AM
Ok, NLP for self defence, i have done it, few few times sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't... but this is what i did
Someone is shouting and bawling at you and threating you, they expect a reation, ie, for you to shout back or start a fight, what i used is pattern interupt,
i just stood there looked them straight in the eye and said
Me: You're angry? Yes!
Him: Yes
Me: so you're really anygry? yes!
Him: YES!
(now i have an agreement state... this is good)
ME: so you're so angry that you want to rip my head off!
Him: YES i'm going to kill you
Me: you're so angry you could just walk away?
Him: (looking very bewildered.....pupils dialate) YES
Me: Go on then NOW!
Result= he walks away wondering what the hell has just happend.
sometimes they just think i'm a compleate loon and walk away anyway.
others say you're trying to F**k my head up. to that i jst say ...thats right!
which has resulted in them saying ,,,i nearly walked away,, how the hell did you do that? and before you know it i've got them buying a drink;)
I have enjoyed reading this discussion.
I had no idea that so many people suddenly 'wake up' to discover themselves in the middle of a fight!
Or that this happened to them often enough that they feel a need for some strategy to 'get themselves out'.
It reminds me of the old joke, "Doc I broke my arm in three places."
"Well stay out of those places."
To me the question becomes not, "How do I heal my arm faster?", but, "How do I stay out of those places?"
But I am a sucker for always trying to change the rules of the game to so I can win.
I am going to assume that in each posters imagined scenerio, they had not just walked into a bar, and someone punched them as they were closing the door behind them.
That means I am going to assume that there was some interaction between the two 'parties' and I am going to make the assumption that either one of them could have behaved differently earlier and avoided the whole mess.
So that means there must be something I can do that is proactive to avoid the situaion getting to threats. Now that may not be true but it is certainly a more useful belief to hold than, "I was just minding my own business when ..."
Now we all know that the unconscious recognizes patterns. We all know that your unconscious recognizes when you are going to get into a fight with a friend or loved one long (subjective time) before you realize it consciously.
I think we can safely assume that your unconscious can also recognize before either of you do consciously that you are heading for a confrontation.
Why dont you use hypnosis and or NLP to ask your unconscious to analyze and recognize that particular pattern, and either divert you, and thus the situation, before either of you recognize consciously where it was going. If no one recognized consciously that it was a confrontation, then no one lost face by avoiding it.
OR you could simply ask your unconscious to bring it to conscious attention early so you can make the decision consciously.
skip
sy-27
12-24-2005, 08:55 AM
SKIP,, you are right in what you are saying but somtimes things just happen,
I have been in the siruation a few times and yes i could have diffused the situation before it went to far and yes i have been in that situation a few to many times but hey things happen, if i could see into the future then yes i could avoid the whole mess. and yes it was fun at the time As was sticking a guys hand to the bar while I walked away so he couldn't follow me, (i did release him after a while)
But as NLP has become more and more a part of my life i have changed the way i behave to be more proactive in my attitude, after years of having a "take no crap from anybody" attitude sometimes old habbits die hard.
You have made some very valid points here... instead of thinking of ways to get out of the situation people should be thinking of ways of how not to get into that situation in the first place, which is what i do nowadays.
So thank you SKIP i should have made the point earlier, but i thought i'd just answer the question that was asked, which is another change i have to make, to be more positive and proactive in my thinking to any situation.
Black
12-24-2005, 11:05 AM
Skip, your post is ok, but sometimes there are no such "places to avoid." Danger can pop up anywhere.
Moreover, you must take risks ocasionally.
Sy27, interesting post. But I would never do that personally :).
Hi Black,
I would gently uggest that a belief that you have power, and can affect things is more useful than one where things just happen to you.
May not be true, but is certanily more useful than playing the victim.
The difference is in how you mentally approach reality. "Things happen to me unbidden.", or "I have power and can affect things."
I surmise you dont prefer my way of looking at things, and thats, OK feel free to keep yours.
skip
Black
12-25-2005, 04:20 AM
Hi Skip,
I did not use the word victim, nor I tried to describe my position in such situations. However, my mental approach could be described as: "Some things happen to me unbidden, and I have power and can affect them."
Although my first answer here may sound banal, it is based on a fair amount of experience.
No doubt you have plenty of experience.
But IMO the mistake you are making is that you are looking for the truth of the content of the statement, and I am looking elsewhere.
People get into automobile accidents. Hikers slip and fall. **** happens.
And that is truth, but it isnt very useful in the sense that it encourages a sense of "Oh well there is nothing I can do about it."
Maybe you cant, but to take on that belief, guarantees that you do nothing whether or not you could.
So I am saying assume responsibility. Take it, irregardless of whether in truth it is your responsibility, or not.
It is a more useful belief.
Not necessarily more true, but certainly more useful.
In that way you will act in this world at cause not at effect.
No you didnt use the word victim, you didnt have to. Things happen. "What about the situation that just ...?"
It all comes from the victim mentality.
Think about it. What is the origion of the question? What has to be presupposed in order to even wonder about it?
I am suggesting that there is a different way to frame the universe. Not necessarily truth, but certainly more useful.
I hope that explains.
cheers,
skip
Terry (existing)
12-25-2005, 08:12 AM
Nicely put, and in your usual thoughtfull manner Skip, but putting all that aside, the truth must out I guess after all that probing (G)..... The question posed was "can hypnosis be used as a defence against attack by someone on drugs or alcohol" or words to that effect. Fact is, the answer is "YES" but the problem is looking in the proper direction first. Every bloody idiot and his dog looks to using hypnosis on someone else to make them change. Now that is dumb is it not? Change yourself, which is much easier, and much more ethical anyway. Put yourself into the trance state, convince yourself that you will feel nothing, and wade in (EG).....Believe it or not, I have observed this effect, and in spite of the doubt it will cause, it is the only way hypnosis can be effective in the manner asked..Now have a Merry Christmas, and a wonderful and prosperous New Year.
Black
12-25-2005, 02:17 PM
Skip, how do you know taking responsibility is more useful? (Maybe our definitions of usefulness are different.)
Now, I am not saying that there are no better/other ways of doing it than mine, but one thing I know is that it works. I don't care much about the "theory" behind it, I just gave something practical.
To me, being a victim is ok.
Cheers :)
"To me, being a victim is ok."
To each his own.
cheers,
skip
JimmyGR
01-08-2006, 07:49 AM
Its never too late to learn martial arts. Use NLP to motivate your self...
fightnight
01-08-2006, 02:25 PM
Just an add in
For most agressors in a drunken bar situation, shouting and such is just a way to make themselves look more powerful and ready to fight than they really are. In fact when someone wants to kick your ass you will most likely get a punch in the face before a word in the ear.
Every situation is different, but I find this to be highly effective to quell a situation. "I'm sorry for the transgression that has occured, as it looks... no irreperable damage has been done, thanks for being understanding, i'll be on my way now"
now if someone gets up in your face just hit them as fast as you can as hard as you can right in the face, they won't be expecting you to throw the first punch, you can usually put someone right to sleep that way