hallucinations

[kosmic]

Is anyone here of the opinion that people in deep trance who, after given a command to have a positive or negative hallucination (i.e. to not see the hypnotist), is just "acting" the part? Is there any evidence that the person is in fact experiencing a vivid hallucination instead of just "pretending"? Or perhaps there is evidence that they really are just "pretending"?

This kind of phenomena is the only "deep trance experience" that I can't experience in daily life. For a long time, I have and/or can use any other hypnotic phenomena like analgesia, belief/emotional changework, healing etc., without the use of formal trance; instead I achieve these things by just working with the knowledge I've gained about hypnosis and NLP with the ocassional meditation/self-hypnosis session.

Perhaps this kind of hallucination is just a myth or misunderstanding? My curiosity about what it would be like is just too great to not experience it if it is in fact real. :D

[narutofan207]

i have the same exact problem, but one thing you can probably do is to just do something that may embarass them unless they felt it to be true. catch my drift

[skip]

There are several un-fake-able tests you can check to see if you really have a good deep trance state.

If they pass them, you can be assured they will genuinely hallucinate.

BUT a fair question might be does it matter if they are faking it?

If you are doing this recreationally they are only reducing the quality of their experience if they fake it.

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[kosmic]

skip,

Yes, there are un-fakable tests that determine if the subject is in a type of deep trance where they will accept a suggestion to hallucinate. Therapeutically, it doesn't really matter whether people are faking or not, since being able to hallucinate during trance probably has minimal value to most clients. I'm not questioning whether or not the person is in a deep hypnotic trance, just whether or not they act like they are hallucinating to be compliant with the suggestion/hypnotist or whether they truely are experiencing the hallucination. Most other phenomena I have no question about as to being real, since i've experienced many on my own.

my question is, even if they are in deep trance, how do you know they are "genuinely hallucinating"? :confused:

[skip]

My point is that if you know they are in that deep a trance, they will have no reason to fake it.

There are other things where you can take advantage of involuntary physical responses that would naturally occurr in the hallucination, but arent obvious, to determine if the hallucination is genuine. (a genuine hallucination?)

Think about specific scenerios, and consider the physical responses that would have to be there. Pupil dialation, rapid shallow breathing, blushing, erections, nipples hardening, adrenalin rush, micro muscle movement, etc.

Now in the theraputic process, often it is irrelevent if they are faking, as long as they are congruent in faking it, as in really pretending, even though they know they are pretending. If they do that, they get the same 'experience' you have asked them to do the hallucination to get. So it often doesnt matter.

Where it would matter is in recreational hypnosis. And if they are faking it there, it is their loss. So who cares?

Perhaps if you were to tell me specifically what you are trying to accomplish, I could be more helpful.

skip

[Merlin]

If they are in 'deep trance'
Is there meaning to hallucinating vs. acting?

You really want to test the reality of deep trace?
Suggest a change in a specific blood hormone level.
Do it with 2 or 3 different hormones.
*Almost* no one can fake that.
(it is a testable Deep trance phenomina, and yes it has been experimentally verified)

[Jack]

Does it matter? I have had clients who tell me they were not in trance, yet the problem they come in with is not with them when they leave.

I have had clients who are very difficult to rouse and have been in what they consider to be a deep trance, others who experience many weird and wonderful visual, auditory and kinaesthetic phenomena during a session, some who remember everything and others who remember nothing at all.

None of that matters. All that matters is that the client's problem is resolved and 90% of the time that can be achieved in a light trance.

Jack

[kosmic]

skip,

i'm asking because I am trying to experience hallucinations during self-hypnosis (for no higher purpose than a powerful curiousity). You said getting into somnambulism is easy in the hypnosleep post, but have you ever personally experienced "genuine" visual hallucinations?

[skip]

You mean while under hypnosis, or just the general daydream type, or the negative hallucinations, such as cant find the keys that are right in front of me on the desk?

I both positively and negatively hallucinate auditorially all the time. I hear things people didnt say, and I fail to hear things they did say.

I suppose I would have to answer, "Yes, including those while in somnambulism."

I assume you are a young man. I assume an active libido. So can you honesly say you dont experience a bit of a hallucination of a sexual nature about every 20 min or so?

I think you are making his much harder than it actually is. But that is just a guess.

skip