Unconsciously speaking

[skip]

This is a reply to a private question that I felt was something better said on the forum.

"I was wondering which book do you recommend for someone who wants to find out more about the subconscious and how to use hypnosis. I am not talking about basics, I mean like actual techniques. A lot of these books are all rehashed saying the same thing. "induct, suggest, close"; they never go in specifics."

Honestly I'm not sure there is one.

I was setting up a siminar one time. I am sitting in the waiting room, talking to a very tiny, VERY pregnant, secretary.

She responds to the question, "When are you due?"

I'm not due for two weeks but I must have this baby by Friday. See my husband is going out of town and he wont be here if I dont deliver by Friday. BUT it isnt going to happen. My OBGYN says two weeks at the earliest, and all my friends say, "It will come when it comes, and not before."

She seemed desperate. And having been in a similar situation I know how important it is for a young first time mother.

So I agreed with her OBGYN, and I agreed with her friends. And I agreed that it was really important for her husband to be there. And then I meddled.

'Those people are right, after all they have the training and the experience, but it seems to me that someone who has started with just a little bit of nothing, and has thru the miraculous working of her mind and body, made an entire human being out of it ... it seems to me that someone ... you ... who has done all of that ... without the least bit of their help ... has something to say about when you are done.'

It is fair to say I had her attention, and I let that sink in. Then I asked, "Do you want to have this baby while your husband is still in town?"

"Yes, but how can I do that, I have been praying, and asking, but I dont believe it is going to do any good.

"You are doing the right thing, but you arent speaking the right language."

"Here is what you need to do. Say to yourself, 'I want to have this baby by ... and feel how important it is, to you, to deliver it, with your husband there, and then feel a sense of urgency like you feel now when you need to pee.'"

Do this several times a day.

Then I went on in to my meeting.

A week later I was back, and another girl was sitting at 'little moms' desk. I asked where she was, and was told, "Oh she delivered last week."

Right on time!

I sometimes get amused at people who make out elaborate scripts, as if their unconscious doesnt already know what they want.

As if their mind doesnt know their mind.

"And I want a red wagon with four wheels and a handle and ..."

"I want to increase the production of xxx by .00764 ppm ..."

And that isnt even the language the unconscious speaks.

'Little Mom' didnt know how many ppm this neeeded to be increased, and neither did I. But she knew what she wanted, and how important it was to her. Her body knew what to do once it 'understood' how important it was to do it.

Is there anything similar to 'induct, suggest, close', to be learned from 'Little Mom'?

cheers,

skip

[Vin]

Skip,
yours was a very good post. After all, as far as I know, the bypass of the CF happens normally (I know actually we don't have all the same hypnotic model), especially in highly emotional and/or traumatic moments. Therefore, in this moments, we can establish a selective thinking. I think you have quite a different view of hypnosis and trance from mine, but, from my view and my model, the pregnant girl was evidently in an highly suggestible state, given the highly emotional state and the consequent bypass of the CF, and you established a selective thinking. Yes, what you say and how say is also pretty important.

Vin

[parsa]

....and then feel a sense of urgency like you feel now when you need to pee.'"


:D:D...We have a saying that goes something like this,"If you think love is really painful you've never had to pee real bad"

[skip]

Vin,

I would say that she was in no more highly sugestable state than any of the rest of us are, at any given moment.

Which is to say she was in a highly suggestable state. ;)

She was already in the deep trance, "I am powerless."

She was in the position that her desire was in direct conflict with her beliefs.

Doctors, who know, say she has no power.

Friends, who know, say she has no power.

God might be in charge, but S/He wasnt responding.

She knows, she has no power, but she desparately wants some power.

I established my own credibility by agreeing with her beliefs (pacing) , Yes her doctor knows ... yes her firends know ... and then giving her what she so desparately wants ... she is the one who gets to say, she KNOWS when she is finished. In fact she knows better than any of the rest of them.

(I wonder if perhaps that wasnt a secret belief she already held. Or do you more think it was a strong fantasy she was imagining in her wishful thinking. I cannot imagine something like that wasnt already present she wanted so strongly)


That induced a different trance, because she went off on a learning experience where she saw the entire pregnancy in a new, and different, and dare I say, more beautiful way. A learning trance.

This was no longer happening TO her ... she was AT CAUSE.

Without that what we did next would have likely had no effect, she probably wouldnt have even done it more than the one time, with me, just to be polite.

It is my belief that I taught her to really communicate with her unconscious in a clear congruent 'voice'. Not a command, but a desire ... coupled with the level of urgency she felt.

Who is to say, I might have stopped, and still she might have been successful after the belief change gave her power.

But it satisfied MY unconscious to give her conscious something to do, so she wouldnt fret that she was doing nothing. It also explained away without directly addressing it why her 'prayers' werent being answered.

What I like about this, is that I can go back and analyse what I did, and place textbook lables to it, here and there ...

Pace, pace, lead ...

Send on TD search opening possibilities ...

Artfully vague language ...

Give her a new 'learning' that is ambiguous enough that he can make her own sense of it...

But at the time, I am not thinking about any of that, I suppose my unconscious is. I am just immensely enjoying observing and being fascinated with how another mind is working. And noticing whether or not we have achieved what we want to do.

Maybe my view of hyposis and trance is different from yours, maybe not.

And who is to say, she wouldnt have delivered 'on time' anyway? Personally I think her belief in her doctors and her friends who had already been 'mothers', would have held sway, and she would have waited another week or two. That is why I chose to meddle.

Was that ethical? I didnt ask permission.

Would it have been ethical if I had asked permission thusly, "Would you like me to show you how you can have this baby when you want to?" Wouldnt that fall under the same ethics strata as, "The biopsy says you have cancer, if we operate immediately there is a good chance we can nip it in the bud. Sign here."

cheers,

skip

[unknown101]

good thread :)

[Connie]

I've got this stimulus-response running in me. When I see that Skip has posted, I get happy!! :) Because I know that there's quality learning to be had, via his humor and warmth and glowing intelligence.

[Don]

Moving back to the original question of "I was wondering which book do you recommend for someone who wants to find out more about the subconscious and how to use hypnosis. I am not talking about basics, I mean like actual techniques. A lot of these books are all rehashed saying the same thing. "induct, suggest, close"; they never go in specifics."

Frankly, I'm unclear about the question. It seems to ask two things:
1) What book will helm me find out more about the subconscious
2) What book has advanced hypnosis techniques

I would ask the original questioner, "What exactly are you looking for? What, specifically do you want to know? Are you looking for something specific?"

I would ask this because it sounds to me like the original questioner is trying to say they're looking for general information but they want it for a specific situation. So if you discover what this person actually wants, you can give a specific answer.

If, however, the questioner is simply looking for general information, the question...or rather, questions...become more elusive to answer. This would be my response:

Hypnosis is not a set of magic spells where if one doesn't work you need a more advanced spell. You are correct that the books all seem to have "induct, suggest, close" because in hypnotherapy, that's all there is. Oh, there are variations on induction forms and different approaches to suggestion, but in reality, that's it. So why are there so many different trainings? Because they teach a variety of approaches to induction and suggestion. They're not "more advanced," they're just different. The trainers share what works for them. Frankly, some may work for you and others may not. The best hypnotherapists, IMO, end up learning several different inductions that work for them and then use what is needed for any individual client. This can result in a lifetime of valuable work.

I have to respectfully disagree with the original poster's statement that the books "never go in specifics." Virtually every book on hypnosis that I see goes into specific inductions, sometimes in great detail, and then gives many suggestions for different purposes, called "scripts." In fact, if the original poster means that s/he's looking for a wide variety of scripts, there are books--some very expensive--that are filled with scripts. Unfortunately, the original questioner never explains what they mean by "specifics." Specifics of what?

Part of the problem may be that the questioner has a misunderstanding of the nature of the mind and suggestions. Books with scripts should only be used as guides and approaches, not as some sort of "magic spell book" where if you find the right spell magic takes place and the princess is saved from the evil ogre.

The key to understanding this process, IMO, is to get out of the mechanistic concepts that have created our health paradigm since the Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution. Humans are not robots with parts that are easily replaceable by another part from the assembly line. The mind is the same, and each person's mind is unique. Therefore, suggestions, necessarily, also need to be unique for each person. The way to discover what suggestions are needed is through a thorough pre-induction interview. There are books that discuss what information you need here, and sample client induction forms, but IMO the pre-induction interview is best taught during a training, not in a book. Here you can see, hear, and sense how beginning with a simple question you can ask more questions that really define the unwanted behavior(s) and make clear the desired replacement behavior(s). This is a skill, and skills are difficult to learn from books. You learn the skill of carpentry by actually doing it. The same is true with hypnotherapy. Unfortunately, I would say it's not a good idea to learn through practice with actual clients! Where can you actually learn this process safely? In a training.

Finally, let's assume that the original questioner is actually looking for more information about the subconscious out of general interest. This, unfortunately, is impossible. It's like asking for the secrets of light that are found in total darkness. The subconscious is, well, subconscious. How can you learn anything about something that is below, "sub," knowing about? The answer is the same way we know there are planets outside of the solar system. We don't see them directly, we see their results (the brief dimming of the light of stars as a planet orbits it).

The difficulty here is one of mathematics. It's true that 2+2=4. But so does 1+3, 3+1, 2+1+1, 1+2+1, etc. There are multiple ways to get the same results. In the case of understanding the subconscious mind there are multiple approaches that can get the same result. That means the understanding of the subconscious mind is more along the lines of philosophy or even theology than of a hard science.

Perhaps the most interesting book I've seen concerning the very nature of the subconscious mind can be found in the book Core Transformation by Andreas and Andreas. It proposes that there are a few basic core needs of the deepest levels of the subconscious. Of course, could it be that the very system the author's propose lead to their interpretation? Could it be that the somehow, the authors had an idea of what the core needs of the subconscious should be and on some unknown level and using some unknown communication method this belief was transferred to the subconscious minds of the people they worked with? I don't know.

[Poodle]

Nice post Don. I "believe" that Connirae is giving workshops (teaching this) and one can become a "Core Transformation Trainer" through her. I guess I would call it a type of Parts combined with timeline work to put it in simple terms.

Stay well~Pood :)

[Docresults]

Perhaps the most interesting book I've seen concerning the very nature of the subconscious mind can be found in the book Core Transformation by Andreas and Andreas. It proposes that there are a few basic core needs of the deepest levels of the subconscious. Of course, could it be that the very system the author's propose lead to their interpretation? Could it be that the somehow, the authors had an idea of what the core needs of the subconscious should be and on some unknown level and using some unknown communication method this belief was transferred to the subconscious minds of the people they worked with? I don't know.

Don,

Here is my limited understanding...

Having done Core Transformation with folks for the last (I don't know how many years) and then extending it to the Aspectics level (Zivorad M. Slavanski's*) deeper use of the process, beyond the sub/unconscious to the Void, my understanding of what the core states are... they are plurema states that can be transcended. (Aspectics takes the core states and goes even deeper to the place of nothingness [aka the void] before reversing the process back up the chain of content.)

Often when taking someone through Deep PEAT before uncovering their primary set of polarities a plurema state is where one often finds themselves.

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

[*also from the work of Jerry Stocking "Illusion Conclusion" which often gets deeper than plurema states into experiences of enlightenment.]

[Docresults]

Is there anything similar to 'induct, suggest, close', to be learned from 'Little Mom'?

cheers,

skip

Skip,

I think you inducted, suggested, and instead of closing you opened... her (and our) mind and body to the possibilities we have before us by shifting (just a little bit) our thinking.

Great met-her-for and fantastic structure that can be used for a lot of things. Great structure for alignment and congruency. Replace 'birthing a baby' with 'weight', 'money', 'relationship', 'success', 'happiness' (leave in the urgency to pee) and watch what happens.

To Your Best,
Doc Houston

[skip]

Yes Houston I agree it is frought with possibilities.

Gotta watch out for those limiting beliefs though. ;)

cheers,

skip