Erickson pattern similar to Tony Robbins pattern

[guest NLPer]

Well guys I really ****ed this one up!

I moved the thread, and thought I was replying to it, instead I was editing and edited all of it out.

sorry,

Skip

[chillowack]

This is very interesting, but doesn't it belong in the NLP forum?

[Merlin]

>Erickson pattern similar to Tony Robbins pattern

Um. Wouldn't it be Tony Robbins' patterns similar to Erickson?

[chillowack]

>Erickson pattern similar to Tony Robbins pattern

Um. Wouldn't it be Tony Robbins' patterns similar to Erickson?
...since in this case the "giant" is not the 6'7" Robbins, but rather Erickson, upon whose shoulders Tony stands.

[guest]

Well, similarity is similarity, right.

If the question is about who deserves the credit or kudos for the origin of the pattern then of course the chronological giant is of course Milton.

And, this does bring up an interesting variable, or pattern, to consider.

Is anyone else out there noticing the pattern of perception happening here?

Is is it just me?

Rob.

[Mentalius]

...And exactly which pattern is under discussion? Building curiosity-potential :p

[Guest NLPer]

Well, the perception I've noticed is the pattern to say that the first of a pair of similar items is the one to be referred to.

I mean, do I say that my father as a boy looks like me when I was a boy or I as a boy looks like my father did when he was a boy?

What is the difference?

It's that answer that is a clue to the perceptual pattern I'm noticing.

Rob.

[Terry (existing)]

Not perception, but courtesy and truth. The first in the field couldn't copy the second, now could they? Nothing to do with status, just facts as they are. The student can indeed become the leader, but only if he or she expands beyond what they were taught. Quoting from the teacher is hardly that....

[GUest NLPer]

Hi Terry,

To keep this thread moving...in whatever direction it will...

For me, it happened that way. I read Phoenix, a book about Milton Erickson's therapeutic beliefs and strategies (not the formal induction books like The Hypnotic Patterns of Milton H. Erickson) with many examples / case studies / stories which are summarized into algorithmic sequences.

Prior to this, I learned of Tony Robbins and the NAC or linking pleasure or pain to gain behavioural changes.

So, here's where and how it happened...

I was reading Phoenix, the chapter about linking highly cherished criteria to an unwanted behaviour, then the algorithm was explicitly sequenced, and I said to myself...

"That's just like Tony Robbins patterns!"

Is that uncourteous and decietful?

Is it purely a result of the sequence that the information was presented to me and the statement "Erickson pattern similar to TOny Robbins pattern" a succinct, explicit and literal description of the chronological sequence in which I learned the patterns?

I wasn't even thinking about courtesy, or truth, just how they were similar...no offense to Erickson...it was out of the mouth of an unconscious mind from which the utterance came...therefore it was a description...

Terry, courtesy and truth are important to me also, and reflecting on the statement I appreciate your comments about the validity and credibility of the thread title.

So, to continue the thread, I'm curious form you, since you spoke of courtesy and truth, what other ways do you know when a person is being courteous, that would really be worth learning of your perception of truth and courtesy...I can certainly add some courtesy to my model of the world and to my choices in behaviours.

So I'll end the post now, if you will, take it over...

[Poodle]

As far as I know Robbins is a Master NLP'er and makes a fortune selling books and giving seminars on the subject just not calling it NLP. No big deal in my book and I would not pay one red cent to see him as I don't think he knows any more about NLP than I do. He just works at it and I could do the same with my training if I wanted to but that is not the direction I want for my life. On the other hand, Milton Erickson was a Medical Doctor and the father of modern hypnosis. What are the similarities in that. I wonder if Robbins could even totally understand the layering of an Erickson metaphor. It sure wasn't NLP by any means!

[guest NLPer]

...???

Well, this thread has definitely made me aware of my perceptions regarding the time sequence that I compare things to.

Who else learned something from this thread that was positive, useful or somehow generated a creative response?

That was the outcome I hoped for myself, and have decided it was achieved.

Many thanks for the replies to Merlin, Terry, Poodle, Skip, Chillowack.

To Mentalitus, if you don't keep that curiosity burning and then you may never find yourself noticing the patterns of perception that are the structure of a persons reality formed by language.

Over and out.

Rob

[phill]

I just picked up "timeline therapy and the basis of personality", and in acknowledgements the well known author of the book(Mr J), acknowledges Mr Robbins (as being a one of the teachers). So i dont know if this means any more credibilty for Mr Robbins.

It also says "To Milton Erickson, who knew this allong time before we did".

In one of Mr Robbins' old tapes he mentions the use of NLP, and how he modelled people to create a pistol shooting training. The old training was 3 months with around 50% success. He made his into 2 days and a morning with 100% success and sharp shooters being increased by 30% or something.

So hes good at modelling, which anyone armed with NLP could do for sure, just as poodle mentions. I have no idea about anything else he does, so i wont comment. It'd be interesting to watch his advertisment and to notice the NLP going on within it(maybe one day).

His persistance in this feild of modelling is "remarkable". And his acuired knowledge is also remarkable. I have no idea of any other "self help" person that is more widly advertised than Mr Robbins. Does this mean that without Mr Robbins more people would have gone and sought professional help instead? The saying "if it aint broke dont fix it" just came to mind. So thats why he offers a product of his own, which people buy if they want, and is not simply NLP. Im not commenting on his trainings btw i have no idea about those.

Something funny one of my friends have said: "oh you mean the guy with the con-man voice?". lol

[phill]

...???

Well, this thread has definitely made me aware of my perceptions regarding the time sequence that I compare things to.

Who else learned something from this thread that was positive, useful or somehow generated a creative response?

That was the outcome I hoped for myself, and have decided it was achieved.

Many thanks for the replies to Merlin, Terry, Poodle, Skip, Chillowack.

To Mentalitus, if you don't keep that curiosity burning and then you may never find yourself noticing the patterns of perception that are the structure of a persons reality formed by language.

Over and out.

Rob

That last long sentence put me in a trance. ;)
I too have noticed what you did.
You should consider joining this forum.

[Terry (existing)]

Someone has asked a question which allows me to harp on my pet peeve, and of course I intend to take full advantage of it (G). Courtesy, and how to improve was the question, and fact is, most persons who visit here are already courtious, but so often lack an understanding of language, which leads to rude comments on their posts, and misunderstanding of intent. To compare for example the similarities of Tony Robbins and Milton Ericson is not discourtious, it is valid, but when you know the meaning of words, you use them in proper context, and they are better understood. Milton came first in cronological order, so it is obvious to many of us that the comparison should reflect that. The posters were not being rude obviously, and shouldn't take insult at the fact that we picked on them, but surely, and particullarly if English is the only language you speak, it should be a matter of courtesy to yourself and others, that you learn to speak it well, and thus communcate effectively.

[Poodle]

This is reminding me of a self-help guru we had in the early 90's by the name of John Bradshaw who believed every problem could be "solved" by healing the inner child. There are actually schools of hypnosis that still teach this outdated material today. Bradshaw sold books by the millions, all over TV, seminars, etc., etc. Eventually he died out as will Robbins but the legacy of Milton Erickson will live on in each of us until the day we die as he is the founder of modern hypnosis.