Using Your Brain For A Change- Questions

[Natura]

I found this book very good, easy to read and pretty much motivating. I got few questions and I hope someone will find time to answer them.

1. Associating feelings with person.

When you are with someone and you are having good times because of him, you associate those good feelings with him, right?

Does this mean that if someone is in bad mood and you show up, can he associate bad feelings with you are not cause of his bad feelings?


2. Repres. system.
Example: Someone has problem with self esteem and he has voice which is telling him that he is not worthy. So he can change the submodalities of voice. It is always good idea to add some supporting pictures which could support his self esteem? So if the voice say you will fail with that woman, he should work on voice it self and add picture of him succeding with woman?

3. Rapport
One of the things which nlp showed me is that different people has different meanings for same words and it is more important than most people think. So when two people have similiar meanings for their words it helps a rapport a lot right? Thats maybe some people just get along more better and more quickly with each other and they even don't know why right?


4. Swish Pattern
Bandler says in book:

It's very important that you don't see yourself in that
first picture, and that you do see yourself in the second picture.
First picture is cue picture which you see before you doing something what you want to stop doing.
Second picture is outcome picture, which what you want to do.
He says litteraly: That's an essential part of what makes the swish work.

He doesn't explaing why this is so important + he says that association/disascition is always one element of swish.


5. Taking informations for Swish pattern.
Bandler says
When you think you have identified the crucial submodalities, test by asking your partner to vary them one at a time, and observe how it
changes his response. Then ask him to take a different picture
and again vary the same submodalities, to see if it changes his
response to this other picture in the same way. Find out enough
about how it works so that you could do this person's limitation
if you wanted to. When you have this information, it will tell you
precisely how to swish this particular individual. Don't actually
swish them; just gather the information. Take about a half hour.

So It really took a half hour?

Thank you for your time.

[Poodle]

to attempt to train someone in NLP based on ONE book or many books. To understand and do NLP proficiently, one HAS TO ATTEND A TRAINING IN PERSON. You were told this before.

Go to the training. You will find your answers there. We do not teach here.

Be well~Pood

[Natura]

to attempt to train someone in NLP based on ONE book or many books. To understand and do NLP proficiently, one HAS TO ATTEND A TRAINING IN PERSON. You were told this before.

Go to the training. You will find your answers there. We do not teach here.

Be well~Pood

You know my reasons, why I didn't go on traing. I want to, it is one of my mains goals. This doesn't mean that meanwhile I cannot touch any nlp book at all.

[Poodle]

This really pisses me off.

I cant afford, dont want to, am to lazy to aquire the money, in too big a hurry, too proud to mow lawns, yadda yadda yadda, to be able to afford a real training.

So I would rather read a book, understand it (NOT), and then ask you people to help me come up with a one size fits all problem/solution set so I can charge people to do it to them and that way I can be happy, have a jingle in my pocket, and be influential among my peers.

With no self discipline of your own, how do you expect to help others with theirs?

This is not someone who would make it past the entry criteria for my trainings.

Swiss pattern that!

skip[/quote]

Resubmitted by Pood

[Don]

Does this mean that if someone is in bad mood and you show up, can he associate bad feelings with you are not cause of his bad feelings?

Of course. It happens all the time. Why did you need a book on NLP to figure this out? However, if you're an anchor of joy, your coming into the situation could change a person's bad behavior.

You've chunked down, and to understand this, you need to chunk up.

It is always good idea to add some supporting pictures which could support his self esteem? So if the voice say you will fail with that woman, he should work on voice it self and add picture of him succeding with woman?

This is actually multiple questions. Unfortunately, as a result of your attempt at book learning rather than a training, you seem to be looking for universal laws rather than a set of tools. Sorry, there aren't any such laws. Every person is an individual and deserves to be treated that way.

It is not "always" a good idea to add supporting pictures to build self-esteem except when it is a good idea. You'll learn when it's a good idea during a training.

In the situation you're describing, an example from a book, working with the voice would be suggested. But you can't universalize this to all situations. You use what works from a tool box filled with potential tools. You select the right tool for the situation. You can't take one tool, like a hammer, and expect it to be used in all situations. Instead, you need to learn all of the tools, what indicates when one or more tools would be effective, and how to properly use that tool. I don't know of any way to learn that to a level of unconscious mastery by reading a book.


So when two people have similiar meanings for their words it helps a rapport a lot right? Thats maybe some people just get along more better and more quickly with each other and they even don't know why right?

Yes. But words are only a small part of communication. There are also such things as posture, facial expressions, intonation, body language, etc. You've chunked waaaay down and are focusing on things which are not as important as other aspects. There are hypnotists who can induce hypnosis in people who don't speak the same language as they do. If simply having the same meaning for words is so important, how is this possible?

He doesn't explaing why this is so important + he says that association/disascition is always one element of swish.

Yes, so what's your question? If it's why is this important, it's because they tried it other ways and it wasn't successful. You might even experience the difference in a training.

Taking informations for Swish pattern...[can] really [take]... a half hour?

It might. It also might take longer. Or, if you understand submodalities and the Swish pattern, it might take far less.

It all depends upon you and your level of training and experience, the level of rapport you have with your client, and the background of the client. You can get none of this from a book. That is why I have continually said that you can learn a great deal about hypnosis and NLP from books, but if you really want to learn how to do them, you need training.

[MrDigital]

1 Maybe
2 Maybe
3 Maybe

Maybe you have the answers in your questions Natura... You know I respect your curiosity and inquisitive Nature and my answer may not seem like an answer at all.

However, you state that your study of NLP led you to the realisation that different words meant different things to different people... So as with your discovery people will have different answers in the moment to the nature of your words... Some will use words that resonate with you and some will be a bit provocative and get you thinking... Who knows which words are worthy of rapport in an online communication... I can only anticipate the feedback....

My lineage of training leads me to the belief that the least respect you could show to a person is to answer their questions directly... Because as you said our words may mean different things to us and... well you get my drift...

If I gave you a book on Ju-Jitsu and once you'd read it sent you in the Dojo to fight someone who practices in one... How do you think you'd fare? The words are not the thing and NLP is to be experienced to appreciate its essence...

Wayne

Did that answer the PM also ?

[Connie]

NLP is to be experienced to appreciate its essence...

I love that. It's worthy of being a tag line. :)

[Poodle]

Wayne has come a very, very long way from when he first appeared here. I have no doubt he is a very capable and talented NLP trainer and we all know that NLP is an EXPERIENCE and a wonderful EXPERIENCE where we leave behind all the negative and limiting beliefs and come out totally trance-formed and with a fabulous toolbox.

His best to me is his sense of humor as what is NLP is one doesn't have it? He and Bandler were having trainings at the same place at the same time, just different rooms. Wayne slipped a note over saying to the effect "if you need help, let me know". Now that to me is a gutsy kick butt NLP Trainer that is willing to stand tall against the "world's best".

Pood :pood:

[Natura]

Of course. It happens all the time. Why did you need a book on NLP to figure this out? However, if you're an anchor of joy, your coming into the situation could change a person's bad behavior.

You've chunked down, and to understand this, you need to chunk up.



This is actually multiple questions. Unfortunately, as a result of your attempt at book learning rather than a training, you seem to be looking for universal laws rather than a set of tools. Sorry, there aren't any such laws. Every person is an individual and deserves to be treated that way.

It is not "always" a good idea to add supporting pictures to build self-esteem except when it is a good idea. You'll learn when it's a good idea during a training.

In the situation you're describing, an example from a book, working with the voice would be suggested. But you can't universalize this to all situations. You use what works from a tool box filled with potential tools. You select the right tool for the situation. You can't take one tool, like a hammer, and expect it to be used in all situations. Instead, you need to learn all of the tools, what indicates when one or more tools would be effective, and how to properly use that tool. I don't know of any way to learn that to a level of unconscious mastery by reading a book.



Yes. But words are only a small part of communication. There are also such things as posture, facial expressions, intonation, body language, etc. You've chunked waaaay down and are focusing on things which are not as important as other aspects. There are hypnotists who can induce hypnosis in people who don't speak the same language as they do. If simply having the same meaning for words is so important, how is this possible?



Yes, so what's your question? If it's why is this important, it's because they tried it other ways and it wasn't successful. You might even experience the difference in a training.



It might. It also might take longer. Or, if you understand submodalities and the Swish pattern, it might take far less.

It all depends upon you and your level of training and experience, the level of rapport you have with your client, and the background of the client. You can get none of this from a book. That is why I have continually said that you can learn a great deal about hypnosis and NLP from books, but if you really want to learn how to do them, you need training.


Thanks for answering my questions.

Thanks, I have to say again that I really want to go to ge trained I just need to figure out how to get money. Meanwhile I want to learn something about subject becuase I found it interesting.

[Natura]

This really pisses me off.

I cant afford, dont want to, am to lazy to aquire the money, in too big a hurry, too proud to mow lawns, yadda yadda yadda, to be able to afford a real training.

So I would rather read a book, understand it (NOT), and then ask you people to help me come up with a one size fits all problem/solution set so I can charge people to do it to them and that way I can be happy, have a jingle in my pocket, and be influential among my peers.

With no self discipline of your own, how do you expect to help others with theirs?

This is not someone who would make it past the entry criteria for my trainings.

Swiss pattern that!

skip

Resubmitted by Pood[/quote]

Good training costs few tousand pounds(traveling costs+ living costs while getting training) my income as 20 years old university student: 0.
I have been working on my self every day for last 3 years. I am looking for ways how to get training or how to get money for it. I don't know what you want me to do.

[Don]

Thanks for answering my questions.

Thanks, I have to say again that I really want to go to ge trained I just need to figure out how to get money. Meanwhile I want to learn something about subject becuase I found it interesting.


Natura, I'm absolutely sure that you want to learn NLP. I'm also absolutely sure that you want to figure out how to get the money. I'm also sure that you want to learn something about NLP even before you take a training.

At least, that's what you believe.

I'm sure you're honest and you believe it with all your heart. I'm sure you're not trying to deceive anyone.

But either you BOUGHT the book or SPENT the time going to the library to get it. Then you SPENT the time reading it and thinking about it. Then you SPENT the time trying to understand some complex concepts and asked the people here (and perhaps elsewhere, too) about it.

Seems to me that if you want to get the money for a purpose, in this case going to an NLP training, you're either buying or spending a lot of time, money, and effort with a book, time you could have spent earning money.

If you want it, my friend, you can have it. But you've got to want it. Right now, you're saying that you want it but respectfully, I'm just not seeing it.

Like I wrote, I'm sure you think you're trying to get the money, but your actions and words indicate to me that there's a part of you that is really avoiding it. I wonder why that part of you exists? I wonder why you don't see it?

[Natura]

Natura, I'm absolutely sure that you want to learn NLP. I'm also absolutely sure that you want to figure out how to get the money. I'm also sure that you want to learn something about NLP even before you take a training.

At least, that's what you believe.

I'm sure you're honest and you believe it with all your heart. I'm sure you're not trying to deceive anyone.

But either you BOUGHT the book or SPENT the time going to the library to get it. Then you SPENT the time reading it and thinking about it. Then you SPENT the time trying to understand some complex concepts and asked the people here (and perhaps elsewhere, too) about it.

Seems to me that if you want to get the money for a purpose, in this case going to an NLP training, you're either buying or spending a lot of time, money, and effort with a book, time you could have spent earning money.

If you want it, my friend, you can have it. But you've got to want it. Right now, you're saying that you want it but respectfully, I'm just not seeing it.

Like I wrote, I'm sure you think you're trying to get the money, but your actions and words indicate to me that there's a part of you that is really avoiding it. I wonder why that part of you exists? I wonder why you don't see it?

Maybe the part which is unable to do just one thing whole day?
Book was for free and was reading it maybe 2 hours per day. Is that much 2 hours?
I also go out with my friends time to time, I am not able to just sit and do one thing(work all day for example) because I get burned out. Right now for example is morning here, so I got a lot of energy, I am going out to run then I will return get shower, healthy breakfast a then I will work on something. At evening I want to on(free)concert it is that bad? I was not on concert for severals months.

[Poodle]

Read book - understand it NOT - 2 hours/day -- wasted time
Running - run quickly, short time --
Breakfast - short time

WTF is JOB/WORK for MONEY to go to a Training?

Concerts are wonderful. What is more important to you? Concert or saving money? In the USA concerts are very, very expensive.

When someone wants something badly enough, a way will be found to pay for it. That is truly when it is very valuable and you will get the most out of it.

None of us were wealthy when we went to learn NLP. My NLP training was approximately 1/2 of my annual income. Skip was left with small children and drove a long distance on weekends to trainings. Connie received some money from her mother's estate. She put it to good use and went to a NLP Training.

Skip learned to do without certain things so he would have the money.
I learned to do without certain things so I would have the money.
Connie too. Don too. We all wanted it soooo much that we went without other things in life that would have only given us a momentary pleasure and found what would give us a lifetime of pleasure, health and wealth.

Docresults was raised in an orphanage. He grew up. Got a job. Saved money. Went to university and he received two degrees, one in psychology and I believe a D.Min. If a child without parents/family can manage to save money from work to receive that which he wants, you can too.

You read books by Richard Bandler yet you know nothing about Richard. His family was so poor, they stole food from the rats to survive. Richard was musical so he started a band in high school with some friends and worked as a musician, saving his money for UNIVERSITY. He WORKED for that which he REALLY WANTED and that was an education. He did not have a computer at home, he did not spend two hours/day reading something he did not understand. HE WORKED FOR MONEY. He is a very smart man and happened to be at the right place at the right time with the right people and the world began to change. He also worked all the time he was at that University for MONEY. When someone suggested that he meet someone, he did not say -- I'd rather read a book, run, go to concerts and play with my friends. He went and LEARNED!

We have a saying in NLP: If it's possible in this world, it's possible for me too. It's only a matter of how.

Now for the end of this to complete what Don wrote. It may be what we call "Parts". Part of you wants to study and another part of you wants to go out with friends. All parts are good parts. It's almost as if there is an [/I[I]]internal battle going on -- should I do this or should I do that? Help me to decide. I don't know. You will learn how to identify, use and integrate parts when you study NLP.

Pood

[Natura]

Read book - understand it NOT - 2 hours/day -- wasted time
Running - run quickly, short time --
Breakfast - short time

WTF is JOB/WORK for MONEY to go to a Training?

Concerts are wonderful. What is more important to you? Concert or saving money? In the USA concerts are very, very expensive.

When someone wants something badly enough, a way will be found to pay for it. That is truly when it is very valuable and you will get the most out of it.

None of us were wealthy when we went to learn NLP. My NLP training was approximately 1/2 of my annual income. Skip was left with small children and drove a long distance on weekends to trainings. Connie received some money from her mother's estate. She put it to good use and went to a NLP Training.

Skip learned to do without certain things so he would have the money.
I learned to do without certain things so I would have the money.
Connie too. Don too. We all wanted it soooo much that we went without other things in life that would have only given us a momentary pleasure and found what would give us a lifetime of pleasure, health and wealth.

Docresults was raised in an orphanage. He grew up. Got a job. Saved money. Went to university and he received two degrees, one in psychology and I believe a D.Min. If a child without parents/family can manage to save money from work to receive that which he wants, you can too.

You read books by Richard Bandler yet you know nothing about Richard. His family was so poor, they stole food from the rats to survive. Richard was musical so he started a band in high school with some friends and worked as a musician, saving his money for UNIVERSITY. He WORKED for that which he REALLY WANTED and that was an education. He did not have a computer at home, he did not spend two hours/day reading something he did not understand. HE WORKED FOR MONEY. He is a very smart man and happened to be at the right place at the right time with the right people and the world began to change. He also worked all the time he was at that University for MONEY. When someone suggested that he meet someone, he did not say -- I'd rather read a book, run, go to concerts and play with my friends. He went and LEARNED!

We have a saying in NLP: If it's possible in this world, it's possible for me too. It's only a matter of how.

Now for the end of this to complete what Don wrote. It may be what we call "Parts". Part of you wants to study and another part of you wants to go out with friends. All parts are good parts. It's almost as if there is an [/I[I]]internal battle going on -- should I do this or should I do that? Help me to decide. I don't know. You will learn how to identify, use and integrate parts when you study NLP.

Pood
1. I said that concert was for free and it was my first concert after several months.

2. Maybe I didn't get fully understanding of book but I learned something from it and it gave me motivation to work ony mself more. NOt a wasted time.

3. Funny thing, how can you know I don't know nothing about Richard hmm.

4. Even I see clearly that you are trying to help me. I do appreciate it. But this discussion is waste of my and your time. You think about me that I am not doing almost anything to get trained, that I even don't understand how training is important on the other hand I am trying to convince you that is not true. What is point of that? How can this discussion help anybody?

What would really helped me was if you drop believe about me that I don't or even don't want to work on my self, or that I don't fully understand my responsibility for my life. Forget about what I said because I was not able to convince you about it(my fault) please.

With respect Natura.