Derren Brown Tricks Reveled

[Guess Who]

Hi

I’ve read on this forum lot of topics and posts about Derren brown, most wanting or guessing how he does his tricks. Considering I do know how he performs his illusion I going to run a competition. Place a reply grovelling to me and the best one will get there question ask about one of Derren tricks, I will completely tell you how one of his tricks is preformed. You can decide if you want me to email you the answers privately all place it on this topic for all to read. So get posting the grovelling worshiping replies.

Regards

Guess Who

[Guess who]

Hi

Here's some evdence that I know what i'm talking about,

Go to Derren Browns Website to his password protected produt page and type in " Second Deal " without the ""


http://www.derrenbrown.co.uk/prod_private.asp

regards

Guess Who

[solaris152000]

No that doesn't work! You dont know what you are talking about! Anyway do you think he uses magic tricks? I want phychological methods please. Just explain a random trick he does to us because I can't think of one right now. Oh! got one how does he do the fingers trick? where he "gueses" how many fingers they are holding up?

[solaris152000]

Sorry that password does work...my bad.

[Guess who]

Hi solaris152000

The finger routine is a bog standard mentalist illusion that can be done anywhere with anyone. From it you can develop several other mind control illusion what more its almost self-work meaning it requires no skill to do.

Shall I tell you?

Where’s my flattering post.

Guess Who
Who am I?

[Sponge]

(insert grovel here)

if i asked how you THINK the trick where he guesses which hand a coins in is done, you'd probably say he uses a magnet or something. BUT-

-on his stage show he's stood nowhere near the subject.
-its their coin.
-i've done the trick psychologicly and once got 9/10 right.
-on the stage show its randomly picked subjects.

Explain how he does it that without going against any of the facts I KNOW are true.
tell me also how he does the dogtrack trick.
it BEST be a good ,logical explaination.

PS guess who, are you newbie32???? cos that would be a good plot twist...
where is he anyway?

[Don]

Gentlepeople,

This is a board for a discussion of hypnosis, NLP, etc. It is not the goal of this board to take away the livelihood of magicians by revealing their tricks. As a magician of many years, I can definitely say that what Brown does is magic. His presentation is very good.

Beyond that, I would request that this NOT become a place where magic tricks are revealed in detail. If there are people here who wish to learn mentalism, there are many sites on the web which SELL this information. It is one of the ways that the inventors or populizers or interpreters of tricks earn money and keep the secrets from those who are not performers.

Thank you.

[Guess Who]

Hi Don

You claim To be A magician then can you tell me who the "Professer" was and who was the "Phantom".


Regards

Guess Who

[skip]

Interesting your attempted testing of Don.

It is a nice try but he isnt the one who lacks credibility here.

I am or was also an amatuer magician. Not a terribly good one Im afraid, but an avid one none the less. I couldnt tell you who either the Professor or the Phantom was, but I can explain lots of magic effects.

One thing I noticed when doing magic, and associating with other amatuer magicians, is that the really good magicians didnt reveal their effects. Oh yes there are plenty of books, and you can buy many tricks, and magicians are most generous generally in sharing how to do things, with other magicians.

It is only the pitiful people who cannot gain the attention they crave thru skill, who resort to 'revealing' to the public how its is done and thus ruining a lot of really neat entertainment bits for everyone, the performer and the audience alike.

skip

[solaris152000]

Lets all agree NOT to reveal any MAGIC tricks, but... ONLY REVEAL tricks which are based on phychological methods. This way as Don seems to think Derren does not use these methods, we will be revealing the wrong explanations, so the magic communatie will not be damaged. But all us who belive in the phychological methods will learn a lot more, so everyone will be happy...okay?

[Don]

The "Professor," of course, was the late "Dai" Vernon. "Dai," is pronounced like "die," although it was short for "David" and was originally meant to be pronounced like "day." For a time he actually lived upstairs at the Magic Castle in Hollywood.

Although "The Professor" did stage magic (and was known for his linking rings routine"), he was primarily known for his excellence in close up magic. Although he was known for his cups and balls, he was primarily known for his card work. My personal favorite effect is his "Twisting the Aces." Many others have attempted to duplicate this using "gaffed" cards, because his version used sleights such as an double and triple lifts, pinky breaks, and the Elmsly count. Most people I see today do a variation of the Elmsly where the hand pulling the cards, usually the right hand, is palm down. The original, which I do, is not only palm up, but done at the finger tips.

IMO the problem with the effect was that the revelation of the last card was always a problem in that it wasn't a big finish. Using a sleight I created to load a special set up, along with a different placement of the cards for an Elmsly count, after the first 3 cards have been shown flipped over one at a time, I am able to repeated show that all four are face down. To finish, I turn the cards face up, do a one-handed fan (not difficult with 4 cards), and show that now there are three cards face up and one face down. I pull out the face down card, and as I flip it over, I turn the other aces face down, and place all of the cards on the table, leaving a nice display, allowing any debunkers to examine the cards (which couldn't be done if the cards were gaffed), and accept applause.

I do not question other people's qualifications here as there is no way to check them. It's a foolish game. As I said, if people want to reveal magic tricks, there are plenty of places to do so. Whether they are card sleights, black art, palming techniques, or psychological forces, the places for such revelations should be elsewhere.

[solaris152000]

This forum is about NLP yes? so why can't we talk about phycological methods which related to NLP? If we went on a magic site I'm sure we would find no NLPers there (execpt maybe you don). But here we can learn about how to use NLP for fun...where is the problem with that?

[Don]

The problem, Solaris, is that people spend their lives developing tricks, or spending lots of money buying the secrets to them. Their careers and their ability to earn money and support themselves and families are dependent upon that. You are asking that you simply be given these secrets, the revelation of such could ruin their careers.

If you would like to learn their secrets, please go to magic trick sites and buy their books or other illusions.

[solaris152000]

I do not want to learn any "magic tricks" just ways to have fun with NLP and such,.

[Unregistered]

where does derren brown live

[Terry]

You will note that mental midgets never reveal their names, but alway promote the idea that they have something which others need or want badly???
They also crave recognition, but fail to get it, thus becoming more frustrated with the passage of time.....
Exposure is unlikely to stop their inanities, so ignoring seems to be the best aproach to me.....Even better perhaps, is to cut out their comments completely, by erasing their posts if such are on any subject other than the one this board is intended for. Perhaps a formal request to eradicate anything pertaining to Darren Brown, might be in order, though I have nothing against this gentleman who I am sure is earning his living in an honest manner, and is entitled to anonymity to ensure that he continues to do so.. Terry

[Unregistered]

Unregistered

"Guess Who" can you tell me how Derren does that trick where he puts his hand on some womans back and tells her to walk than stops her by closing his hand?

[neurotic1]

Hi

Just a thought. I dont think this is revealing any tricks or spoiling anyones fun. However, please feel free to delete or modify my entry if you think otherwise.

As far as guessing the hand holding the coin goes, there are some 'tells' that people will show. For example, in body language terms, often the hand people hold a coin in will be closed tighter (and therefore look smaller) than the empty hand. Also, by asking questions, you can read facial expression tells and eye movements which might give away the truth. This can take a lot of skill and psychological expertise to master but you can train yourself using NLP and body language training - picking up the non-verbal communication, etc.

Paper, scissors, stone is another interesting one - the key being to stay one step ahead of the person you are playing it with. You can 'force' a choice on someone using non-verbal signals such as subtly making a scissors sign during hand gestures when you are talking to them. However, it gets more complex when people begin to play properly an again this involves a lot of experitse in NLP and body language.

I am a great admirer of Derren Brown, I think he has worked very hard to do what he does. I am sure he uses traditional magic, distraction techniques, hypnosis, psychology and NLP in a cleverly interweaved fashion for much of what he does and perhaps what you will gather from this forum is that the message is - if you want to know how he does what he does, you should learn more about all of these wonderful arts. That is the probably the only way you can truly know and learn his techniques some of which are stunningly simple and others, which seem very simple are stunningly complex! I hope that is in the spirit of this forum.

Good luck.

[Unregistered111111]

OK. Heres how it is. There are certain people the tricks will not work on. They are known as free thinkers. However, the majority of the people all think alike. When these people think of a word or a number for example, the first thing they do is start to say the word even if they do not say it, thier lips start to form to say the word. This is 1 major clue. It is also very easy to tell if these people are not being truthful. So when asked questions you can tell when they are being truthful. They tend to blink alot when there lieing and also look away and some peoples cheeks may turn red and a lot of other signs.

[solaris152000]

http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Solaris152000

My sight devoted to derren brown mentalism techniques^

Hmm, I do see now after learning more about magic that alot more than I originally thought is magic tricks, however, soem things I still can't explain to the point where he MUST use some psyclology, NLP ect.

[Don]

Hmmm. So let me get this straight.

Let's say somebody does ten effects.

Seven of them you have figured out--they are magic tricks.

The other three you haven't figured out. Therefore they "MUST use some psyclology, NLP ect."

Occam is turning in his grave.

[armaan]

I love magic, except that I don't know how to do it myself. But I definately want to learn it. And I am looking for someone who can guide me into this.

But who is this guy asking members to 'Grovel'. Come on, who are you, I hope you are not Brown yourself trying to have fun with the forum. Where did you get that password, that link isn't even working.

I have not heard of Derren before, but I visited his website just now. I have never seen such a wonderful art of designing, it's a great website.

Just remove that 'priv_prod' in the end of the link posted by 'THE GUEST'!

Regards,

Armaan.

[Dizzy]

"Guess who", I also have access to that page. It is quite easy to get. However, everything there is to be found ten-fold elsewhere. DB never gives away anything meaningful about his tricks. Now, by anyalising his shows, I have worked out quite a few of them, but I doubt sincerely that you have anything meaningful to contribute.

[solaris152000]

Don skip has agreed why can't you?

The trick where hes in a shopping mall, and gets everyone to raise their hand, has psyclology behind it.

Have you seen the vid, Ill link it if you havent.

[Terry (existing)]

Skip is a valued friend, but this time I side with Don, this is a board assigned to the discussion of certain subjects, and it is considered by someone who already knows the "how to", that this is not a proper subject for this board. Nobody is telling you you can't discuss it, just not on this board, so do a little work to earn your knowledge, and start another board on say MSN were there is no charge, just the need for a little effort on your part. If you can't do this because it takes up your valuable time, think about our valuable time, and I think you will get the point. If you persist, we will know that you feel your time and interests is above ours in your opinion......!!!!! Try the title "Illusions by Brown", who knows, you may start an entirely new craze. My guess, you will run out of interest very quickly, (G).......

[Mikel]

I've noticed that in his more recent series there has been more editing work done to the tricks. It makes most of them impossible to explain conclusivly, although for most there are several methods that spring to mind.

But you're right, nothing meaningful is ever given away, I've many for false explanations that I've heard real ones.

[Mikel]

If you want to learn more stuff about this sort of thing then these are sites I found useful:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewforum.php?forum=15
http://www.magicseduction.net
http://www.rmjs.co.uk/db/index.htm

[skip]

Solaris,

Be careful when you speak for others.

Sure I agree that Derren Brown's tricks use psychology, nlp, suggestion. We all use psychology, NLP, hypnosis daily. How could Derren not?

Every magic trick I have ever seen uses psychology, NLP, suggestion. And some of the ones I know how to do, use very sophisticated psychology.

When you have a crowd of sheeple, like in a mall, you can get over 50% of them to do damn near anything. That is called compliance. Then another 25% will follow the lead of the 50%. The idea that you might get on the muzak and offer suggestions for an hour or so, could raise the percentages even more.

BUT that doesnt make it some blammo, socko, NLP, jedi mind trick.

Don has worked at the Magic Castle. If you know anything about magic, you know being invited to work the Magic Castle, is recognition that you are one of the best.

Why would you take a smattering of knowledge of hypnosis and NLP, apply it to it the hype that Derren Brown puts out, and fool yourself into thinking you know more about it, than one of the premier majicians?

IMO this Derren Brown discussion has no place here. The connection to NLP, or hypnosis is so tenuous it isnt worth consideration. The only interesting feature to the discussion is how foolish someone is willing to appear to hold on to their false beliefs.

Please do not use my name to support this.

capice?

skip

[Don]

Skip, you're absolutely correct that the best magicians use psychological and NLP techniques during their effects. In fact, one of the reasons most young kids aren't good at doing magic is because they don't have an intuitive understanding of body language, verbal cues, and other psychological/NLP techniques that are used to "sell" the effect. I've been using since before the term NLP was coined.

Solaris, one of the things Houdini used to say was that he needed to see a medium do a stunt 3 times before he could state with certainty how fraude was committed. In the video your talking about you don't know
1) What happened before
2) Whether it's been edited
3) How many times it was done to get the desired response

Videos do not tell the truth. A good editor can do more with a metaphoric razor blade than all of the NLP, hypnosis, and psychological stunts in the world put together. Remember how OJ was shown in a photo wearing a certain pair of shoes that was supposed to put him at the scene of the crime? I could have taken that same picture and made him wearing Vans, high heels, of just being barefoot. The expression, "Ya hadda be there" is even more true when it comes to observing magic.

But even so, you're still dodging the basic issue: if you've figured out most of his stuff and see that it is magic tricks, if there is one thing you can't figure out, according to Occam's Razor it is far more likely to also be a trick and you simply don't understand it rather than being something different.

Further, please understand that even thought magicians doing mentalism will often say that they have a less than perfect success rate (which does two things: 1) it gives them an out if they screw up and 2) it follows the concept of professional juggling: practice until it is simply but give the impression that it is difficult) they will not do tricks that don't work 100% of the time. Claiming that they're not perfect and that they use hypnosis, NLP, or a strange, unknown power is just part of the selling of the trick.

One last thing, Skip, I am a member of Hollywood's Magic Castle and have been one for decades. Like any member, I am able to perform there for free. I have done everything from an occasional trick to entire 20-minute and longer routines. However, I have not been employed by the Magic Castle to work there.

[solaris152000]

Skip, Im sure in the Derren Brown thread, you agreed that there was a element of psycology in that trick.

Hmm, Don can you say you know a way to do the trick without psycology, and subliminals?

[Don]

Tell everyone that you're doing a show for TV, and for fun, when you count to 3, everyone should raise their hand. If they do so they'll get a gift cetificate to a music store.

Then, photograph everyone with their hand up.

Next, make another tape where you are recorded telling people what you are supposedly doing. Delete the sound from the first tape, put the second tape before the first, add sound effects.

Piece of cake for Occam's birthday.

[skip]

Yes, and I repeated it, and thought I clarified it, in my last response to you.

You persist in reading into it, meaning that isnt there, and was never intended.

You are welcome to misinterpret what I say all you like, but please stop representing your misinterpretation, to others, as my meaning.

You persist in believing and representing, that there is some NLP jedi mind trick, that is NOT what I agreed with you about, nor is it close to my intended meaning.

Please reread my previous post for clarification of my meaning. If it is still unclear to you, ASK, before you use me to support your position.

Is that too much to expect from you?

skip

[solaris152000]

You persist in believing and representing, that there is some NLP jedi mind trick, that is NOT what I agreed with you about, nor is it close to my intended meaning.
These are not the droids you are looking for.

Don, they interviewed the people and they all said how mystified they were, and how they were unaware they were doing it.

[Don]

Who interviewed them? An outside, objective, news organization that viewed everything from the beginning?

No?

You mean it was the producers of the show interviewing people? Why, they'd be the first ones to reveal the real works, wouldn't they?

LOL!

Don't let Occam kick you on your way out of this door!
:)

[Dizzy]

I know someone personally who was affected by DB. He assures me he was not "in on the act", and I believe him. I also question the idea that DB never uses psycology/NLP/suggestion in his acts, because a few of them I have broken down, analysed, and then proceeded to use what he did to replicate the effect. However, I will not contest the fact that quite a few of his tricks are going to be done through slightly more conventional stage magic methods.

[Don]

Nobody ever suggested that DB doesn't use psychology/NLP/suggestion in his acts. What I have said is that he doesn't use them as his acts. They are techniques used as covers for the tricks that actually work.

I have no reason to disbelieve your friend, either. Tricks--magic tricks--work on everyone if the performer is good, and DB is good.

Many years ago, Houdini tried to revive his career by explosing fake mediums. One of the difficulties in this was that some other magicians who were not trained in this specific field would claim that a faker was real. As a result, in the field of mentalism (what DB does), even other magicians who do not specialize in this field may not know the methods.

I've been doing mentalism for over two decades and I have a small amount of expertise in this area. I can easily fool other magicians on a regular basis.

So Dizzy, how much experience do you have as a magician and how much do you have as a specialist in mentalism?

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, creator of Sherlock Holmes, was a friend of Houdini. But Doyle, surprisingly, believed in the reality of some mediums whom Houdini proved were frauds. Doyle didn't have training in the field where Houdini was an expert.

I would respectfully suggest that unless you have expertise in a field, it may just be possible that you really don't have a full and intimate grasp of that field.

As I have repeatedly stated, DB uses the cover of NLP, etc. as part of his tricks. It is possible, I imagine, to actually use NLP to create such effects. But, it won't work in all cases. When you're actually working with hypnosis and NLP, if one approach doesn't work, you can switch to another. But when you're on stage, it has to work the first time every time. Not 79%, not 78%, and not even 99% of the time--every time. If you have an audience of dozens or hundreds of people, you cannot guarantee that with psychology, NLP, hypnosis, suggestion, etc.

Often times, when performing, I'll use certain things known as "psychological forces" knowing that although it seems impossible, a certain number of people will make certain choices instead of a "free" choice. However, I only do that to add to an effect, not as the effect in toto. It makes the effect look even greater. And I do it knowing that only a percentage of the people will make the choice I want.

There are a few magicians I know of who use some suggestion during their shows as a major part of certain individual effects. However, it always requires a great deal of verbal and/or physical manoevering, is always done for just one person, and fails so often that they have to plan for what is professional called an "out," a way to make them look like they succeeded even though they didn't get the result from the suggestion that they wanted.

[Dizzy]

Well firstly thank you for being so respectful in your answer to my post. I will endevour to be as gracious in my reply. I do accept that I have reasonably limited information in this field, for all of studing it for over a year now. However, I have seen quite a few things that seem to suggest the use of waking hypnosis in his acts, and when reproduced create the same effects. I have quite a large knolege (excuse my spelling) of subliminal messages, nested loops, and other effects. I have been able to identify quite a few being used in his tricks. I would just like to say that he, like the stage hypnotist, can pick and choose who he uses for his tricks, and so ensure that he will be successful. I am aware I could quite easily be wrong, but that is just what I think.

[skip]

Dizzy,

"I have seen quite a few things that seem to suggest the use of waking hypnosis in his acts ..."

Interesting.

What are the specific 'things' that you have seen, that are consistant with waking hypnosis?

skip

[Dizzy]

To take one example, on a radio program he did an effect on the DJ, with her assistant observing. He sticks her hand to the table, then expands this into an amnesia routine. What he says is almost exactly the same as what Ormond McGill uses for the same classic stage effect. Also the few differences, when analysed, add more power to the effect. By copying what he said word for word I got my first waking hypnosis success.

[Don]

Hi, Dizzy.

So if you see a magician reach into his pocket and sprinkle "woofle dust" on his other hand to make the magic happen, do you assume that there is really woofle dust? It certainly seems to suggest that he uses it.

Before a magician does a levitation he puts his assistant into a trance by waving his hand in front of her face. It certainly seems to suggest that he puts her in a trance.

After you select a card the magician asks you to "think hard" of an image of the card so he can "read your mind." It certalnly seems to suggest that he is reading your mind.

The magician puts two little rabbits made of sponge into your hand. When you open your hand, though, it is filled with little sponge bunnies. It certainly seems to suggest that pieces of sponge, cut to look like rabbits can reproduce in seconds.


Your argument, like that of Solaris', implies that if you don't know the trick, it must be hypnosis, NLP, psychological manipulation, etc. He uses that as a guise for his effects. He's trying to make people think he uses those techniques. And guess what: he gotcha!

Respectfully, I know that you and Solaris desperately want to believe that what DB does is possible using NLP, hypnosis, etc. It may be possible...but it is not sure-fire, and no magician would do something that was likely to fail. Remember, with NLP and hypnotherapy you are able to modify things as you go to meet the needs of the client. Magicians just don't have time to do this with an audience of 20, 30, 60, or hundreds.

It's like this: I hold a coin in my left hand and pretend to take it in my right. By using a combination of body language (subliminals) and verbal statements (NLP), I enhance the effect. But if I didn't keep the coin in my left hand all of the subliminals and NLP wouldn't get the coin into the other hand!

The fact that you, Solaris, and many others think that the claims he makes as to how he does it are to some extent accurate does not, in reality, imply that he uses those techniques. Rather, it clearly indicates his excellence as a performer.

[Terry (existing)]

Dizzie, When it comes to Hypnosis, it would be extremely foolish for you to argue with me, since I obviously have superior knowledge in that area. I'm sure you are clever enough to see that. On the other hand, when it comes to magic, I don't have a clue, so I would sit at Don's feet and listen with rapt attention if he were explaining how it worked. Now,,,when it comes to listening to either you or Don, and knowing Don is a member of a prestigious group of magicians, indicating that he has a great deal of skill, whom do you think I would pay attention to? If you choose to be stupid, that is your right, but do recognise that your ignorance is showing, as is the ignorance of your other young friends who clamour for information as if it is an entitlement. It isn't, so stop asking, or visit a board more suited to the area of interest. On the other hand, I imagine that any board dedicated to magic would refuse you information of this kind for obvious reasons. Too bad you aren't smart enough to know that a magician can't take chances on something that might not work with a particullar member of the audience, so must use a fail proof method.....

[skip]

Im sorry Dizzy, perhaps you misunderstood.

You said you had seen 'things' that indicated waking hypnosis.

I am wondering if you would recognize waking hypnosis, so I asked specifically what 'things'.

Now most people would understand that to mean, what specific indicators of waking hypnosis did you observed?

Instead you respond with a RADIO show you HEARD, where it was REPORTED that Derren stuck the hosts, assistant's hand to the table.

First of all, you didnt see it yourself.

Second, a hand on a table isnt necessarily an indicator of waking hypnosis.

And third, seeing the effect of a magic trick, and being told it was hypnosis, isnt an indicator either.

Would you recognize waking hypnosis if you saw it?

If so how would I know you did?

skip

[Dizzy]

Don, I saw the effects being produced in my own test situations, with entirely the equivilent of your 'woofle dust'. It would be difficult you such an event to take place, if there wasn't something being used. Skip, I do have the capability to recognise waking hypnosis, it has been the object of interest to me for some time now. I have used these methods to host a number of amateur shows, and have had no problems, they seem quite ample for this use. The radio show example I used because it most aptly showed the connection, there are many more I assure you. There where even some at the live show I went to see, which I spent a large proportion of analysing what he was doing, much to the irritation of those sitting infront ;) . Terry, I would ask you not to assume I am ignorant, and that even if I am as ignorant as you suggest, that there is no possible way I could ever be correct when speaking with my 'betters'. I simply mean to have a good natured discussion over this very interesting issue, I did not think I would have insults thrown at me from every side....

[skip]

OK Dizzy,

Even tho you didnt offer me a single indicator of waking hypnosis, even tho all you did was assure me you would know it when you saw it, after I doubted your ability to do so ...

For the sake of discussion.

Lets say you are absolutely correct.

Where do we go from there?

skip

[Terry (existing)]

Terry, I would ask you not to assume I am ignorant, and that even if I am as ignorant as you suggest, that there is no possible way I could ever be correct when speaking with my 'betters'. I simply mean to have a good natured discussion over this very interesting issue, I did not think I would have insults thrown at me from every side.... Dizzy, you can ask, but you do make it very difficult for me to assume anything different when you presume to twist what is said into something else. When I say I am better informed about hyposis than you, I believe this to be indisputable fact, not insult, or a statement that you are ignorant, merely that I know more. Not that it matters, I was pointing out that we all are ignorant when it comes to some subject, or am I to presume that you feel at ease no matter what the subject under discussion? If you feel that you know more than Don about magic, by all means give us the benifit of you greater knowledge, but if as you say, you wish to have a discussion, meaning that you DON"T know it all, then bow the those we should assume to know better based on their position in this area of skill. Further, since you wish to have a "good natured" discussion, it would seem unreasonable to continue when others tell you this is not a subject for discussion on this board, nor is it proper to disclose methods by which some make a living. Are we to presume you are just being rude and ignoring such a request? If I were alone in displeasing you, I could understand, and perhaps feel I was maligning you, but since you are getting it from all sides as you say, perhaps it is you who needs to re-evaluate.

[Don]

Don, I saw the effects being produced in my own test situations, with entirely the equivilent of your 'woofle dust'. It would be difficult you such an event to take place, if there wasn't something being used.


I realize you want to believe this. And frankly, I should probably just say, "Go ahead, believe as you will."

I have fooled thousands of people over many years, people who have far more training in magic than you do.

Respectfully, if you study magic, and mentalism in particular, for five or ten years, I have no doubt that you'll laugh at your insistance that since you don't know how something works, it must be done by some other means that you do know.

Isn't that like seeing a surgery and concluding that the purpose of the mask put over the patients nose and mouth is to hypnotize the person (something you know) since you're not an expert with anesthetic gasses?

[Dizzy]

Perhaps it would be best for me to step out of this discussion, I am getting annoyed and so will act rashly, and you seem to have got it into your heads that I am a babbling ignorant fool. I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

[solaris152000]

Don, this discussion has been going for a year and a half.

I still cannot accept some of the things derren does is not done by pscological methods.

As dizzy mentioned, the 'trick' where he stuck the radio presenters hand to the table.

Thinking about it I can only see two solutions assuming its not just acting.

1. Some kind of Duel Realitiy spin.
2. Her hand is literally stuck to the table.

Can you think of another, no need to say it, just say you know one of these 2 or another method is correct.

If you say you can.... I will accept it.

Everything Derren Brown does can and probably is done with magic.

I will adopt that belief.

Solaris

[Don]

Dizzy, ignorance is a wonderful state. It's a state of lack of knowing. The smartest of people, the most knowledgeable of scientists, are ignorant of things outside of their fields. The wisest among them don't make assumptions in areas where they are ignorant. Either they let other people debate that or they actually investigate those fields.

I am ignorant in many areas. When asked about those areas I have a three-word phrase which is very powerful: "I don't know." I don't know much about cooking. I know a little about automobiles, but I'm hardly and expert. I am ignorant about most aspects of chemistry.

Where I know a little about these areas, I can share what something might be, but I'm not going to insist that I have to be correct.

Let me draw a comparison with someone you might meet whom I'll call "Joe":

Joe: Hypnosis put someone into a deep sleep and then you can command them to do anything.
Dizzy: That's completely wrong.
Joe: How do you know that?
Dizzy: I've studied and practiced hypnosis for years.
Joe: But I'm familiar with what sleep looks like and when a person is hypnotised they are asleep
Dizzy: No, they're not

So Joe is a person who doesn't know anything about hypnosis and he constantly attacks you even though you have a far greater knowledge about hypnosis that he does. It seems to me it would make more sense for him to say:

Joe: Well, it looks like people are asleep when they're hypnotized. But Dizzy, you know all about this and say they're not. I guess either I'll have to believe you or actually study hypnosis myself.

[Don]

Yes, Solaris, every time people with no knoweldge in the field of mental magic make incorrect statements I correct them. That's true.

I also realize that you can only see two solution assuming it is not acting. On seeing it I can think of at least a half dozen ways it could be done, none of which are the two you suggest.

Solaris, assume someone came to you and insisted that after seeing someone being hypnotized, there were only two things that were going on:
1) The person was in a deep state of sleep, like when you go to bed at night and
2) Any person in such a state will do whatever the hypnotist tells him to do.

My guess is that you would try to correct them. Why? Because you have training and knowledge they don't.

There is a trick currently being sold for about $100. The effect is this: a small box (just 6" x 6") is placed on the floor. A strong, burly person is brought up from the audience. He is asked to lift the box which he easily does. The magician shows a thin handkerchief which is tossed in the air and slowly floats to the floor, showing just how almost weightless it is. The magician opens the box and puts the handkerchief inside. He tells the man from the audience that the box is now too heavy to lift. The man goes to lift it but cannot. He struggles and strains but the box won't come up from the floor. The magician removes the hanky and the man can lift the box easily once again.

No dual reality spin.
No, the box is not literally stuck to the table.

Here's another one. It sells for $400. At any time during his show, the magician opens his briefcase and removes... another, smaller case. He opens the second case and removes... a third matching case! From inside the smallest case, he proceeds to remove a real bowling ball, waits a few seconds, then removes another real bowling ball.

No dual reality spin.
They are real bowling balls and do not compress.
No NLP, suggestion, or waking hypnosis required.

Magic is a lot of fun, and mental magic--mentalism--when presented as well as DB does, is quite astounding, no?

[Dizzy]

Where I know a little about these areas, I can share what something might be, but I'm not going to insist that I have to be correct.

Let me draw a comparison with someone you might meet whom I'll call "Joe":

Joe: Hypnosis put someone into a deep sleep and then you can command them to do anything.
Dizzy: That's completely wrong.
Joe: How do you know that?
Dizzy: I've studied and practiced hypnosis for years.
Joe: But I'm familiar with what sleep looks like and when a person is hypnotised they are asleep
Dizzy: No, they're not

So Joe is a person who doesn't know anything about hypnosis and he
constantly attacks you even though you have a far greater knowledge about hypnosis that he does. It seems to me it would make more sense for him to say:

Joe: Well, it looks like people are asleep when they're hypnotized. But Dizzy, you know all about this and say they're not. I guess either I'll have to believe you or actually study hypnosis myself.

Don, I never insisted that I was correct, I merely did not assume you were. In the above case I would never just outright deny that he is correct, I would put across what I know, and we work out who is correct. Almost certainly it is me, but I never assume anything. Always argue, always discuss, and so you can be CERTAIN what is right. Or at least know that you can't be sure.

[solaris152000]

Indeed Don.

I do agree that magic can be mindblowing.

But I want you to answer my question.

Could the trick I described be done through magic?

[skip]

Dont wrestle with pigs.

You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

skip

[Dizzy]

Dont wrestle with pigs.

You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

skip

If you could at least say who you are directing that at, it might be easier to understand ;)

[Don]

Hi Dizzy.

So you're saying that if someone attacks your profession, you wouldn't correct than and further, you'd let them spread misinformation to others and to what you do, something that would harm your abilities to earn a living?

I'm sorry, I don't understand the desire to lose money by being nice enough to let others be ignorant even though you have more knowledge.

[Don]

As I wrote in my previous answer to you, Solaris, "On seeing it I can think of at least a half dozen ways it could be done, none of which are the two you suggest."

[Don]

All of us, of course!
;)

[solaris152000]

Okay don.

......
......

......

I still don't belive you:p

[Dizzy]

Hi Dizzy.

So you're saying that if someone attacks your profession, you wouldn't correct than and further, you'd let them spread misinformation to others and to what you do, something that would harm your abilities to earn a living?

I'm sorry, I don't understand the desire to lose money by being nice enough to let others be ignorant even though you have more knowledge.

Oh no, but I discuss with the possibility of being wrong in mind. They might very well know something I didn't.

[skip]

"Oh no, but I discuss with the possibility of being wrong in mind. They might very well know something I didn't."

Thats an excellent point Dizzy and one worth emulating.

Until ...


What do you do when they demonstrate that they know not of which they speak?

skip

[Don]

You mean, when I told you that the world was round, because when you looked you couldn't see any alternative other than it being flat, you choose not to believe me?

Okay....


That's your choice.

[Don]

Oh no, but I discuss with the possibility of being wrong in mind. They might very well know something I didn't.


Hi, Dizzy.

That's exactly my point.

If I think someone might know more than me, I'm going to listen to them intently because they might very well know something I didn't.

In fact, If I think someone knows about the same as me, I'm still going to listen to them intently because they might have a different approach to the same material and I would definitely learn something.

In fact, even if I think someone might know less than me, I'm still going to listen to them intently because they might be sharing something in an area I'm not familiar with.

That's not the problem.

The problem is when somebody says something and I know for a fact that they're wrong. In the example I gave, the person said, "Hypnosis puts someone into a deep sleep and then you can command them to do anything."

Now, I know that both clauses are simply wrong. All of my studying, all of my training, indicates that is wrong. And if this person goes telling this misinformation to others, the result could be that people whom I could help might not come to me for hypnotherapy. Not only would the result be that people aren't getting help, but I'd be losing money and people would be infected with misinformation.

Are you saying you, however, wouldn't stand up to his misinformation because he "might very well know something" you didn't? Do you not know that his statement is false?

[Pdrive]

hiya guys... the age old Derren debate eh? what fun..

Don. I have a question for you - a slight digression, but I think its time we had one :)

Do you think that, on average, Stage hypnotists are legitimate?

To elaborate, most stage hypnotists provide an answer for the way their "tricks" are done: with "hypnosis".

To you believe this explaination to be true?... btw, for purposes of the discussion, lets assume that trance induced my crowd excitment and the covert suggestion you and I know exist in the stage hypnosis atmosphere is a "legitimate" part of that legit. explaination.

So, are the subjects actually hypnotised?

I know you know the mentalist trick, that can be purchased for large amounts... the chair that the subject cannot get out of. you know ;)

now, thats a typical sort of trick a stage hypnotist might do... do they do it with the purchased gimmick, or suggestion?


Pdrive

PS Congrats on your demonstration of patience over these issues :)

[skip]

Pdrive,

"Do you think that, on average, Stage hypnotists are legitimate? To elaborate, most stage hypnotists provide an answer for the way their "tricks" are done with "hypnosis"."


To answer your question dont we have to define what legimite means in the stage hypnosis context?

First and foremost, you must keep in mind that a stage hypnotist is an entertainer, and entertainment is the sole outcome for the show. Hypnosis is incidental. Have you got that firmly fixed in your mind?

Now the 'stage hypnotist' is a legitimate entertainer.

And S/He will select subjects, not based on hypnotic ability but on possible entertainment value. Remember entertainment is the point of the show.

So merely compliant people, people out for a lark, and highly suggestable people, will be those chosen to be 'hypnotized'.

And who cares if they really are hypnotized as long as they are entertaining? No one, but the audience. And this works really cool, because if the subject says they were hypnotized while they were clucking like a chicken, it bolsters the show. If they say they werent, it bolsters the show, because no one believes them.

Some do get hypnotized.

Who cares, it is the show, the entertainment, that counts.

skip

[Dizzy]

Hi, Dizzy.

That's exactly my point.

If I think someone might know more than me, I'm going to listen to them intently because they might very well know something I didn't.

In fact, If I think someone knows about the same as me, I'm still going to listen to them intently because they might have a different approach to the same material and I would definitely learn something.

In fact, even if I think someone might know less than me, I'm still going to listen to them intently because they might be sharing something in an area I'm not familiar with.

That's not the problem.

The problem is when somebody says something and I know for a fact that they're wrong. In the example I gave, the person said, "Hypnosis puts someone into a deep sleep and then you can command them to do anything."

Now, I know that both clauses are simply wrong. All of my studying, all of my training, indicates that is wrong. And if this person goes telling this misinformation to others, the result could be that people whom I could help might not come to me for hypnotherapy. Not only would the result be that people aren't getting help, but I'd be losing money and people would be infected with misinformation.

Are you saying you, however, wouldn't stand up to his misinformation because he "might very well know something" you didn't? Do you not know that his statement is false?

In the case when I had made sure he was speaking out of his arse, I would attempt to convince him that he was incorrect. But in this case, do you KNOW I'm wrong, you just suspect it.

[Don]

To quote Meatloaf, Skip, "You took the words right out of my mouth."

[Don]

I know--not 80% sure, not 90% sure, not 99% sure, but 100% positive--that DB uses magic tricks that are wonderfully presented under the guise of hypnosis, suggestion, NLP, etc.

FYI, discussions such as this went on over 100 years ago concerning mediums. At that times, frauds were pretending to be real mediums for the purpose of getting money from suckers...er, I mean those who were grieving. People who fell prey to these frauds include Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (creator of Sherlock Holmes), Sir William Crookes (famed scientist who discovered the element thalium and did research on plasma as well as some research on cathod rays which eventually resulted in TV), and possibly even President Abraham Lincoln (definitely his wife).

Unlike the fake mediums who had (and have) the goal of earning money from the grieving, entertainers such as DB use similar techniques but for the purpose of legitimate entertainment.

One of the reasons I really like this discussion is that people such as DB add to what I call the "wonder factor." Some people watch DB and don't like it. Some people, such as myself, watch him not for the effects themselves, but for way he performs them. Others see him and increase their wonder factor at our incredible universe.

David Copperfield made the entire Statue of Liberty disappear, but because he calls it "magic," people think it couldn't be real. Years ago, Uri Geller made a splash because he let people wonder if his abilities were real (FYI, I've spend several hours talking with URI. He agreed with me that he is an entertainer. Does he actually have abilities? I don't know. Magicians can reproduce many of the things he does--but does that mean they use the same methods?). Now, DB is making a spash by doing the same thing.

Now, here's what's kewl:

Name Act Admits it's Magic? Acceptance
Copperfield Vanish Statue Yes None think its real
DB Stick Hand No Some think its real
Fake Medium talk to dead No Some think its real

So there are two differences here. First, the grander the effect, the less people think it's real. That implies that people think it could be possible to do what DB and fake mediums do, but not vanish an enormous statue.

Second, and perhaps more important, is whether the performer admits it's magic. If they do, people agree and don't think it's real. If they don't, people still agree (at least some of them) and think that it is real.

So this may be more related not to what the performer does, but rather to his or her level of rapport with the audience! If there is a high level of rapport, people are inclined to believe, while if there isn't people are inclined to disbelieve.

Now, as a hypnotherapist, I'm sure you've had people come to you complaining of one thing, but when you interview them you discover that there is something else that is a more likely source to the problem. Imagine, for a moment, someone who does this consciously: I'm going to say one thing is the problem even though I know there is something else that is the problem. In order for them to succeed at giving you this wrong impression they would have to fully know the difference and obtain good rapport with you.

For lecturers and performers to be successful, they must have good rapport with their audiences. Comedians have days when they can't establish this and their jokes fall flat. They either blame themselves for doing a bad job or say it was a "tough house." I would contend that if the comedian had good rapport with the audience, they would laugh. Sometimes, comedians realize that the situation is so bad (although they probably don't recognize the rapport factor) that they respond physiologically, perspiring heavily. This is called "flop sweat."

Now, going back to your response, you say that you would "attempt to convince him that he was incorrect." And after you give facts and data to support your position, and he refuses to agree, I would contend that the focus has to change from attempting to convince him to proving to others that he is incorrect. After all, if he has so fully made up his mind, facts, evidence, truth, etc., won't get in the way of his beliefs.

[Dizzy]

Ok, I see what you are trying to say Don, and to a certain extent I sypathise. However you have not said why you think he is doing 'conventional' magic tricks. I have used the methods I think he uses myself to build shows, why couldn't he?

[Pdrive]

I care Skip,

and i wish you didnt evade the question :)


Do you think Stage hypnotists do "hypnosis"?

[Don]

Dizzy, I have answered this several times, but I'll be glad to do it again.

With NLP and hypnosis, if some technique doesn't work on someone you always have the option of changing to something else until you find something that does work.

With stage hypnosis, if someone isn't either being hypnotized and going along with you or simply playing along, you can ask them to leave the stage. Watch any show and you'll see that 50% or more of the people who come up on stage are often sent back to their seats. And among those that remain, the hypnotist will focus on those who respond the best.

The bottom line is this: given enough time, a well-trained person can get some form of hypnosis and NLP to work on just about everyone.

A performer, however, doesn't have that time. The hypnotist doesn't work with people who are not responding, he or she just sends them back to their seats. The magician uses techniques that always work.

Part of a juggler's skill is to learn juggling so well that it is easy for him or her to do. However, then they have to learn how to make it look very difficult. This is done through a combination of the use of seemingly dangerous objects for juggling, dropping items on purpose, body language, and verbal cues ("I've never done this before...I'm not sure I can do it," etc.).

Mentalists such as DB have to use magic tricks that work every time. Not some times. Not with some people. Every time. He or she may pretend that they have a small failure rate. They may use verbal cues and body language to make it look difficult. But the trick is behing the scenes. IT MUST WORK.

Is it possible to use real psychic powers? Personally, I believe so. However it doesn't always work on all locations with every person. Even a real psychic, when doing performances, can't depend upon psychic abilities.

Is it possible to entertain using hypnosis? Absolutely. But not with everyone on all occasions. The hypnotists has to choose the best performers out of the audience.

It is possible to get dramatic behavior activities using NLP? I think so. But not with everyone on all occasions. Therefore, anyone giving a performance claiming that the effects use NLP is saying that for one purpose: it's a verbal cue. magicians call it misdirection. It's the getting of a person to be looking at your left hand when the coin is in your right. It's the getting of people such as yourself to be looking at NLP, waking hypnosis, etc., as the technique when the real method is someone else.

Okay, here's a secret of magic: To be an effective magician, you act must be 10% trick and 90% selling the trick. If you are good at selling the trick, people will believe what you told them about it no matter how far-fetched it is.

I have explained this repeatedly. Let me try once more: Magic tricks are effective 100% of the time, first time, every time. NLP is not. Magicians who claim they are using NLP are doing so as part of selling the trick, but they aren't using it as the trick itself.

Is there something about this you do not understand? If so, let me know, and I'll try to explain this concept of performers needing to be successful first time, every time in a different way.

The fact that you have bought the story disguising the trick merely indicates that you, like many others, have been swept up by DB's wonderful performance.

And now, a story I may have told here before in a different way.

They came to the master and asked for the secrets of magic. He told them.
"Yes," they said, "but what are the real secrets of magic?" He told them
"We see," they said, "but what are the real inner secrets of magic?" He told them.
"We understand," they said, "but what are the ultimate inner secrets of magic."
"That," the master said, "will cost you $1,000." They paid him and waited in awe for the master's revelation of the ultimate inner secrets of magic. Finally, the master spoke:

"There's a sucker born every minute."

[Dizzy]

Ok, I accept totally what you are saying, but the fact is with any show you can make sure you use those people who are suggestable. As I believe I have said before, I have done shows of the principles I think DB is using, and I have become quite skilled at working out from body language and other cues who will be the best subject. Stage hypnotists do this; a quite common stage trick is where you pick a person from the audience, apparently at random, and do an instant induction as he steps up to the stage. For this you need an extremely suggestable person, and usually someone who is quite shy, so peer pressure can be used to your advantage. The hypnotist needs to be able to quickly identify who will be a good enough subject for this to work. It is done. Do you not think when DB only uses very light trance/waking hypnosis that this is not possible? I do agree he sells the tricks well. I agree 90% is in the presentation. But I do believe that at least some of DB's tricks are done using hypnosis/NLP/psycology. Also remember this: It is a TV show. If it doesn't work, then all you have to do is either retake it, or use a different clip.

[Pdrive]

ok Don, just to clarify...

Do stage hypnotists use hypnosis? They might have some people just "playing along", but do they ever actually hypnotise?

Your a hypnotist... you probably have a definition of "hypnosis"

... do Stage hypnotists ever do it?



Peter

[skip]

Pdrive,

I think I said some people do get hypnotized in stage shows.

It is just that the hypnosis isnt the objective.

Dave Elman studied stage hypnotists to learn about and help him refine his rapid induction techniques. He reasoned that it shouldnt take a doctor a half an hour to hypnotize someone, if a stage hypnotist could do it in 2 minutes. He was right.

There could be a stage show where every single volunteer gets hypnotized. That show at the next performance might not have a single person hypnotized. It wouldnt change the show. The audience would never know.

did that clarify?

skip

[Neurotic1]

Dont wrestle with pigs.

You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

skip
LMAO thanks, I had a good chuckle at that.

[Neurotic1]

Look Dizzy,

I've been somewhere similar to this in this discussion before. It all gets very pointless. There are many ways to skin a cat. In some circumstances, one way will be more efficient than the other, in some circumstances it will be the reverse, in yet more circumstances, the cat will be equally easily skinned by several different methods.

Some of Derren's routines could be done with hypnosis and suggestion IMO but equally, they are probably done with Mentalism. Don knows ways to do them all with mentalism, so he says. I know ways that some of them could be done using hynosis in addition to other techniques such as distraction. I don't know as much about mentalism as I should but I know more than I did; I think it uses many techniques.

Don't waste your time arguing pointlessly. I will happily sit here and say to you YES some of what Derren does COULD be done using hypnosis and aspects of NLP+ BUT probably isn't - although I'll keep an open mind for some of the routines. I keep an open mind because I am capable of skinning some of those cats with techniques I know. I'll also keep an open mind that someone might have a less inefficient and more succesful, indeed completely different way of skinning some of those cats which I had never even thought of.

[Pdrive]

okay, so stage hypnotists DO (sometimes) do hypnosis...

what i fail to understand is why Don is so keen to tell these guys that Derren never does hypnosis on his shows.

Now, I know a bit of mentalism... I know a bit of NLP... & hypnosis.

I KNOW, ive seen Derren do stage hypnosis gags... ive seen him make young ladies hallucinate a fork bending... the camera SHOWED the fork NOT BENDING.... yet the girls sat there and scared sh*tless, because they were bending "all the way in half"

Now, Derren might have gone through hundreds of subjects before he found some girls suggestable enough for this hypnosis to be effect....

I KNOW I can repeat this trick using hypnosis...

When you have a camera crew and a editing suite, you dont need 100% accuracy... just the sound of celluloid hitting the cutting room floor.

So tell me... Why didnt Derren use hypnosis?


Peter

[Don]

Hi, Peter.

The reason I say he doesn't do hypnosis is because the performances we're talking about are not hypnosis shows.

Hypnosis show: hypnotist hypnotises numerous people. He gives them tasks to do. If they are not hypnotized and following the suggestions, or if they are not playing along, he sends them back.

DB: He calls up a person and does it for them. Period. He doesn't go through a bunch of people first. He doesn't have a bunch of people on stage. He doesn't dismiss some of them. It's first time, every time.

Yep, the trick of doing one thing for a person and letting the audience see something else is a good one. I've been doing effects like that for years. It goes over great every time. No hypnosis, NLP, suggestion, etc., needed...BUT, I'll often pretend to "instantly hypnotize" a person so the effect will work.

By the way, I have entire manuscripts on how to do "hypnosis shows" that never require one bit of hypnosis. I was talking about doing a show like that, but a person warned me against it because a venue might sue for not doing what the show advertized. I took his advice.

[Pdrive]

Don

Clearly, Im referring to Derren's show for Britain's Channel 4.... the only DB available to me.

Just because Derrens tv show is not televised "stage hypnosis" does not mean he does not do hypnosis. I know he uses mentalism gimmicks. What im trying to explain is that he does demonstrations of hypnotic phenomenon too.

Hence, the example in my previous post.

Also, the viewer does not see the subjects Derren previously sent "away".... eg the magic of the cutting room.

So would you, on re-reading my above post, agree with me?:

Derren Brown has and probably will continue to use hypnosis of the "stage" type in his tv shows.


Peter

PS Does your manuscript include a way to demonstrate a falsely hypnotised subject's fork bending hallucenation? (without the use of actors or stooges)

[Don]

Seeing one performance--and one that has been edited--can't tell you anything. See several of his performances.

What you posted changes nothing, other than showing that you seem to have made up your mind based on one performance. When it comes to magic, this is not a good idea. Houdini said he needed to see something three times to be able to tell how it was done. Are you saying that even though you have no magical training, you know more than Houdini in figuring out how tricks are done?

No, the manuscript doesn't deal with bending forks as that was not popular when it was original published. Making one person see something different from what the crowd sees is done in a variety of ways, and many tricks are based on the premise.

[solaris152000]

Am I correct in thinking thats whats called dual reality?

I do agree, it could be done by that. But it seems a bit too good, but hey I don't know all the secrets.

[Pdrive]

Don, Ive seen several of his television shows... I cant speak for anything else - ive never seen his stage shows.

He doesnt call his tv show "stage hypnosis" but that does not mean that he does not do hypnosis. The title is not nessisarily all inclusive.

The fact is, I have seen several demonstrations of hypnotic phenomenon. I have, dispite your belief, had a little training in Mentalism. Ive much experience in hypnosis.

As I said, the tv shows are edited (everything on tv is)... we dont see the subjects Derren "sent away".

I recently saw an episode of the series "Mind Control" where Derren took several young women into the forest. There he selected one to participate in a "experiment"... he asked her to close her eyes (as she stood in the forest) and then performed a hypnotic induction, then he suggested that she experience her darkest fears... he told her a metaphorical tale about a wall protecting her from her fears... he asked her to remove one brick and glimpse her fear etc etc.

The show documented her response to Derren's suggestion (she nearly sh*t herself)... then they showed an interview with her after Derren had completed his demonstration (rebuilding the "wall")

Now, this expert demonstrates a amplification of emotion, through suggestion.... its not Derren's most impressive material - one could achieve such a result after reading "hypnosis for Dummies".

BUT, it is hypnosis. There is no gimmick here... the viewers at home only see this demo as something "amazing" because of the girls strong reaction, as she stands there in the forest with her eyes shut - exhibiting every sign of being scared sh*tless.

Two examples Ive given now, and I can provide more.

I wonder Don, if you have actually seen any of these tv programs... you seem to be comparing Derren to a stage Mentalist. I can see the comparison is justified, but Derrens use of hypnosis in his shows, and the flexibility that the tv format offers make him a slightly different preformer.


Peter

[Don]

Hi Peter.

You wrote: "I have, dispite your belief, had a little training in Mentalism."

Respectfully, there is an old saying that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Within mentalism there are a variety of specialties. Mentalists is the style of Dunninger (or his, ahem, "admirer" Kreskin) would understand a few of DB's effects, but not all of them.

I fool people with "a little knowledge" all the time. Don't you think that DB, who is much better than I, might be able to fool you, too?

The entire basis of magic is to give the impression that you are doing real magic. So the use of tricks while giving the impression that one is doing hypnosis in a show that is not a hypnosis show is the obvious method to a professional in the field.

I realize you really want to believe. Fine. Believe. You can believe half of what he does is real hypnosis or all of it. You can also believe that the world is flat and the sun orbits the Earth.

But in the words of Galileo when tied to the stake for daring to say that the Earth orbits the Sun, "Still, it moves."