Can't get amnesia

[Conca]

I hypnotized my mum earlier and got pretty deep (maybe somnambulistic), i got arm catalepsy first and then went ahead and got automatic movement and then i failed. i said "in a moment i will count from 3 to 1 and when i snap my fingers i'd like you to awaken from the head upwards and you will open your eyes. also when you open your eyes you will forget your name." so i counted back and snapped my fingers and i asked her what her name was and she told me straight off. it never went at all.

this time i told her i knew i could do it and i had complete confidence in myself so what could the possibilities be? i know you can't tell me 100% because you weren't there but any guesses would be appreciated.

i kinda thought maybe the words i'm saying aren't totally right so if you could tell me how you would word that suggestion i would also be very appreciative.

the annoying thing is i anaesthetized the whole of her right arm and i said "i want you to tell me when you feel something" and so i touched the anaesthetized arm and she said nothing and i touched her other arm and she said "now" straight away. so i know i can do this but i just cant get amnesia

[Connie]

Sure you can! Keep at it! :)

[Conca]

i know i can but i've never done it before. the thing that annoys me is that i got complete anaesthesia in a whole arm and couldn't get amnesia.

how would you give the suggestion? what words would you use?

[Snoopy]

Conca, 99.99% (I don't like saying 100%) of the posts you have made on this forum have shown us that you really don't know what you are doing when it comes to hypnosis, and you're playing with something you don't understand.

You've asked questions that you should already know the answers to, and have even told us that you hypnotized someone for the first time as little as 2 weeks ago where even then, you wern't sure if they were really hypnotized, or faking it.

With all due respect, Its time you stop playing with peoples heads & fill your own with the knowledge you need to follow your dream of becomming a hypnotist or hypnotherapist.. Within the first few days of training with a professional hypnosis instructor, you will be able to answer every question you have asked here to date and also be able to answer many questions asked by others.

Terry.
Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist/Psychotherapist

[Conca]

I understand that but I'm 15.

[Poodle]

Instead of telling Mum to "forget" her name, use the suggestion -- your name is Elizabeth now. Elizabeth is your name now. What is your name? FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, REMEMBER TO GIVE MUM HER REAL NAME BACK!!

You HAVE TO UNDERSTAND the innermind RULES and if it doesn't want to accept a suggestion, it doesn't have to.

Being 18 is pretty much legal age. Please look around and find just a 3 day training somewhere near you. Probably the best place to look would be The American Board of Hypnotherapy. Mummy just may be so kind as to allow you to go for a Friday, Saturday and Sunday IF you make certain promises...you know the kind I mean, do you not? How many things would I have to list? -- wonderful grades at school, setting the table, helping with cooking, washing/drying dishes, dusting, vacuuming. Getting close to summer too so you could also help out in the yard and the list goes on and on.

You show excellent promise and I would really LOVE for you to have a little formal training. You can always add more at a later date.

Doing some mind reading I believe you are reading a book I suggested. Go to the last person written about in that book and use that induction. I personally will not use it but it should accomplish the name change you want to do.

PLEASE USE YOUR PC TO FIND A TRAINING NEAR YOU!! I was 18-19 when I learned hypnosis too. My best friend's husband taught me and my poor husband was my "victim". I received "formal" training later on and I sure learned a lot!!

It's not a matter of AGE, it's a matter of HOW. ;)

Stay well~Pood :pood:

[Conca]

PLEASE USE YOUR PC TO FIND A TRAINING NEAR YOU!! I was 18-19 when I learned hypnosis too. My best friend's husband taught me and my poor husband was my "victim". I received "formal" training later on and I sure learned a lot!!

It's not a matter of AGE, it's a matter of HOW. ;)

Stay well~Pood :pood:
i definately will go to a training and i'm not doing anything permanent on my family because i understand that you are virtually inside someones mind during hypnosis. i am in the UK by the way so do you know of any sites for trainings? thanks for the support and by the way what book is it you mean?

[Poodle]

it's name is The American Board in no way, shape or form indicates that it is not worldwide.

At the age of 15, I am asking you to please stop and wait a couple of more years. Unknowingly you could cause damage to your Mum's mind. A small example here is our wonderful Skip: He had his training, not all of it, and did an induction on a young lady and she went straight down to the Esdaile Coma State and scared the britches off of Skip. Thankfully he was able to bring her back up.

Pood :pood:

[Conca]

i know how to rouse someone from the esdaile state btw and i'll check out the american board

i don't mess around with her mind, i just perform tests

[Poodle]

I strongly disagree. Requesting Mum to forget her name is messing around with her mind. If Mummy would have accepted that suggestion? You are playing with FIRE and you and others can get burned badly.

[Conca]

but if i had have been 18 you would have said it was ok

i know that i have to take the suggestion away after giving it

[Merlin]

i know how to rouse someone from the esdaile state btw

and how many times have you successfully done this?

[Poodle]

you would be allowed to attend a training. The only way you can go now is if MUMMY ATTENDS TOO.

Is there perhaps a hypnotist/hypnotherapist where you live so you could possibly sit in on some sessions with their client's approval, of course?

[Conca]

and if i did that and got some in-person training i would have the green light (so to speak) from you guys?

[Jacquin]

HI Conca,

I think this fell down with your amnesia suggestion. This is likely to be the first real binary (pass or fail) test of your work. Do not leave things to chance. Tell her she wil not be able to remember, think or speak her name. That it is gone, just for a time, erased etc etc.

I find saying 'just for a time' helps.

In other words compound your suggestion. Later such compounding will not be needed. Give it in a few ways. Then create a strong sudden moment when you wake her up - divert her attention first by asking an unrelated question or two. Then ask her what her name is.

You will get results with this. Stick with it.

Of course undo everything afterwards and keep things fun and safe.

Anthony

[Don]

I think everyone should learn hypnosis, no matter their age, in a way that builds self-confidence and the understanding that if anyone can do something you can do it too! However, learning hypnosis does not mean read a book or watch a video. It means take a training.

It your mother will let you hypnotize her, don't you think she'll let you take a training? Especially if you get and after school job and pay for it yourself! Maybe she'll want to take the training, too!

[Merlin]

and if i did that and got some in-person training i would have the green light (so to speak) from you guys?
you need a green light?

............
all we want is your success.http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c344/Myhrrhleine2/cheers/cheer.gif

[Connie]

When I'm working with people and I want amnesia for any reason, I typically have them forget the alphabet or numbers, not their name. It's also fun to have them "lose" a number (like six--six is gone, six is gone)then have them count their fingers and find ELEVEN!! Very puzzling. :D

I've seen some very cool name amnesia stunts in stage shows...a friend of mine lost his name and found it again when the hypnotist told him it was "ee iii ee iii ooo" (like in Old MacDonald's farm song). That took. He WAS eieio. Except for when he was "chocolate swirl" his movie audition name.

Another girl was told she could only remember her name if she sang the "happy birthday to me" song. That was very funny.

Conca, hold on to your interest in hypnosis. It's a good thing to know, so learn what you can on your own but do ink in/plan on a training into your future! You'll love it!!!!!

[Snoopy]

but if i had have been 18 you would have said it was ok

That's not the case at all. If you were over 18 we would probably more likely expect you to know better than to fool around with someones head.

Conca, You are leaving your subjects (family members you love) wide open to problems you really don't understand, Abreactions, Aversion Therapy or even Coma States.

Being 15 is no excuse to play with something you don't understand. In fact it's doing yourself more damage than what you realize.

When the time comes that you do seek out professional training, Its best to enter it with as little knowledge as possible, that way you don't teach yourself wrong things, or misconceptions about what should be happening, So when you learn it through the instructor, you learn it properly the first time.

I'm not telling you not to follow your goal, the opposite actually.. You've found a career path you want to go down, so put everything into it from now on. But don't put innocents peoples minds at risk in the process because at this point in time, thats exactly what you're doing.

Terry
.cch.ccpsyth

[Poodle]

that APU is an accredited university now and that means you get your hypnosis AND psychology degrees all the way to Doctorate. As far as I know it's the only place on Earth that's legit for both.

[Poodle]

i know how to rouse someone from the esdaile state btw and i'll check out the american board

i don't mess around with her mind, i just perform tests


Specifically what do you do for this rouse from the Esdaile State? I'm not being obnoxious. I really want to know what YOU do. Secondly, have you done it so you are 100% sure it works every time with every one?

Pood

[Conca]

if all else fails you tell them that if they do not wake up they will not be able to go into trance again. i've read it in elman's book and at the APU how long does it take to do these degrees?

[Conca]

I strongly disagree. Requesting Mum to forget her name is messing around with her mind. If Mummy would have accepted that suggestion? You are playing with FIRE and you and others can get burned badly.
I said to her that when you close your eyes again you will remember your name

[Poodle]

Go to APU's main page and look. There was a lady named Robin there but I don't know if that has changed or not. You can send Dr. Matt a PM. He's a nice guy.

I seriously doubt that the SC mind would respond to a "threat". You keep forgetting that Elman is OLD school. Even the conscious mind doesn't respond well to that.

Be well~Pood

[Merlin]

if all else fails you tell them that if they do not wake up they will not be able to go into trance again. i've read it in elman's book
not quite right.
how many times did that work for you?

[master_debator]

I hypnotized my mum earlier and got pretty deep (maybe somnambulistic), i got arm catalepsy first and then went ahead and got automatic movement and then i failed. i said "in a moment i will count from 3 to 1 and when i snap my fingers i'd like you to awaken from the head upwards and you will open your eyes. also when you open your eyes you will forget your name." so i counted back and snapped my fingers and i asked her what her name was and she told me straight off. it never went at all.

this time i told her i knew i could do it and i had complete confidence in myself so what could the possibilities be? i know you can't tell me 100% because you weren't there but any guesses would be appreciated.

i kinda thought maybe the words i'm saying aren't totally right so if you could tell me how you would word that suggestion i would also be very appreciative.

the annoying thing is i anaesthetized the whole of her right arm and i said "i want you to tell me when you feel something" and so i touched the anaesthetized arm and she said nothing and i touched her other arm and she said "now" straight away. so i know i can do this but i just cant get amnesia

one way I've found that I use to induce amnesia is first to hypnotize the person then give them a post hypnotic to return into trance (such as purple poppies or something else). Then when they are not in a hypnotic state, ask them about a hobby of theirs or something else thats not related to hypnosis. When they start talking about it, fire off the post hypnotic to take them back into a hypnotic state. When you emerge the person simply carry on the conversation of their hobby or whatever you were talking to them about. I learned of this from keith livingston. I'll pm you a link to it.

[Poodle]

too late. I already PM'd the info. btw, have you had yours yet. I'm thinking YES? Was it everything you thought it would be and maybe more?

Like Connie's we had a lot of fun with the numbers. Number 4 would be your name and then number 4 disappeared. They would count on fingers 1, 2, 3, (slight pause) 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 -ohh ohh too many fingers. Let's count it going this way (backwards) same thing. They know for sure there are 10 fingers but they can only account for 9. It causes quite a bit of confusion.

It was fascinating to watch the pauses as one could actually see the brain really working and totally unable to come up with the answer. Then it was fun to find someone that had 4 members in the family. They could say their names but only count to three.

Perhaps hypnotists can have about as much fun as NLPers. Not quite, but close.

Be well~Pood

[Conca]

So how do you do it then cuz i read that if you say "if you dont open your eyes when i tell you to you won't be able to go into this state again." i read that it's because the client wants to be able to go into this state as they are so deeply relaxed.

Also thanks pood and master for the links im checking em out now.

[Don]

Well, Conca, let's think about it. Imagine I came up to you right now, just the way you are, and told you to completely change the way you were thinking or you would never be able to be in the current state again. What would you do? I know if somebody told that to me, I'd think, "That's okay, I'll just stay this way." Or perhaps I'd think, "I don't like threats. Stop ordering me around!"

Elman wasn't wrong, Conca, but you only have the mechanics and not the understanding. Sort of like the difference between reading how to ride a bicycle (and thus knowing the mechanics of who to do it) and actually doing it (understanding what's going on).

If, after you have tried to get someone to emerge from trance but they're not paying attention to you, there are many things you can do, depending upon who you are (if you're a well-paid hypnotherapist, you could say, "I know this state is fantastic and you feel wonderful, and I promise that on your next visit I'll help you achieve this state again. You may stay in this state for as long as you like now, but I want you to know that for people who stay in trance like this I charge $250 and hour. So you might want to COME OUT NOW when I count to three...") and depending upon whether they respond to direct or indirect suggestions. It also depends upon whether they respond best to "away from " or "towards" goals.

Does this sound a bit complex? How does anyone figure all this out? Well, there are four levels of becoming great at any hypnotic technique:

1) Unconscious incompetence. This is where you don't know anything about something so you don't care and don't think about it. I just received in the mail two "books" that are filled with this kind of "information."

2) Conscious incompetence. This is where you realize that you don't know about something. This is a fantastic place to be because it is at this phase that you can decide that you want to learn something. I have a way of describing this state: "The beginning of wisdom is the realization of ignorance." You can't start learning something until you realize that you don't know it.

3) Conscious competence. This is where you have to pay close attention to everything you do. My guess is that you can ride a bicycle. Do you remember when you started to learn how? You had to focus on pedaling, on steering and not oversteering or understeering, on keeping your balance, on going fast enough, on watching out for other people, other bikes, cars, trees, rocks, etc., etc. The problem here is that your conscious mind is attempting to do all these things and it just can't do all those things very easily at the same time (nobody's conscious mind can). So it's a real struggle to learn complex new skills such as hypnosis. This is where you are at not. Any person who struggles through this phase can move on to the next level,

4) Unconscious competence. Today, when you ride a bike, you don't think about it, you just do it. That's because you went through the third level and made it to the fourth level. Isn't that great? That means, with practice, you can get to a level where you just "do it" and don't have to think about it. That's where you're at with bicycles now. Shortly, you'll be at level three as you learn to drive a car. Eventually you'll be at level four so you can change radio stations or talk to friends as you drive. You get to this level--we all get to this level in any skill--through practice. And that's the problem.

You see, if you practice something enough times it can become a habit. Habits are kept in our unconscious minds and are difficult to consciously change without a lot of practicing the reverse (try to ride a bicycle so you always fall down!) or use techniques such as hypnotherapy or NLP. That's why, when you practice, it's important to practice the right way.

I'm sure you've heard the old saying, "practice makes perfect." Well, that's not true. If someone practices playing a piece of music on the piano over and over until it's memorized, but they play it wrong each time, they won't suddenly get it right. In fact, wrong practice yields wrong technique. It will become very difficult to change out of the bad habit. The truth is, "only perfect practice makes perfect." That why it's important to learn and practice a skill the right way.

And that's why so many people here are urging that you get proper training! Nobody is trying to force you to wait. Nobody is trying to get you off of doing hypnosis. I, for one, am proud of your interest, dedication and focus! I think it's fantastic. And I want to see you become the best hypnotist you can possibly be. That comes through training.

I'm a strong proponent of a combination of in-person training combined with the use of books, CDs, and DVDs or other videos. The thing is, they work together. Leave any part out and practice just from books or CDs or DVDs or just in-person training and you may end up moving from conscious competence to unconscious competence with bad habits, techniques, and understandings. That's why I ordered and paid for the two books I mentioned above. That's why I'm about to order a complex kit for leading smoking cessation sessions--I already know how to do this and actually have specialized certifications in it. But if someone else has extra information that I can add to my previous studies and in-person trainings, so much the better!

Good luck, Conca. Don't give up! Keep up your studies. Get training. You can do it. I have confidence in you.

[Conca]

you know what i just realised from hypnotizing my mum?

i just realised i can't do it anyway so i'm just gonna give up for a few years and come back later. for some reason i just can't get her to follow suggestions and i don't know whether it's lack of confidence but you'll be happy to know i'm not gonna "mess around" in her mind any more and i'm gonna wait till i've had in-person training

[Conca]

i know my mum's faking it and i don't have anyone to practice on

[Merlin]

you know what i just realised from hypnotizing my mum?

i just realised i can't do it anyway so i'm just gonna give up for a few years and come back later. for some reason i just can't get her to follow suggestions and i don't know whether it's lack of confidence but you'll be happy to know i'm not gonna "mess around" in her mind any more and i'm gonna wait till i've had in-person training

don't give up!

we don't want that. we want to help you succeed
Family, like mums, are more difficult than others.
they pretend, wanting you to feel good:), or are more worried about 'mind control':eek:, etc.

as you're noticing, books are outdated or don't give the whole story.
that's why we encourage an in person training.

[Poodle]

It very well may be that Mum is faking it. It is difficult for professionals to work with family members. To your mum you will always be a young child. This seems to never go away. In the USA medical professionals are not allowed to work on, prescribe for, etc. family members. It's illegal. One MD here wrote out a script for a cough medicine for her daughter. She lost her license to practice medicine FOREVER over a bottle of cough medicine.
She only wanted to help her daughter but ...

Be well~Pood

[Conca]

ok i won't give up (it was a bad day for me and me not getting results didn't help me at all and i overreacted)

i'm getting in touch with a local hypnotherapist and seeing if i can sit in on a few of his appointments and i'll ask for tutoring in exchange for cleaning his office and stuff like that on saturdays.

if i went to him for tutoring do you think i'll learn properly because i can't afford the hypnotherapy home study course because due to the exchange rate it works out at around £250 anyway and also i cant go to the training yet because i want to focus on my exams.

to be honest when i hypnotize my mum i see one sign of trance and thats tears and also where crow's feet would be goes red (she hasn't actually got crows feet btw) and i never believe her when i ask her "are they (the numbers) all gone?" i know she will try to make me feel better as well by faking the results

i understand now that family and girlfriends are not very good hypnotic subjects and i know now that she will always see me as me instead of a hypnotist even if i become the best in the world (i'm not saying i will)

i'm gonna keep researching and learning more and more because i think i've got enough knowledge to be able to hypnotize people but i need to be taught what's dangerous and what's not.

thanks guys

[Conca]

also i understand that the mind doesnt have to accept any suggestions but what are the chances of her rejecting this suggestion

[Poodle]

Chances can be very, very high. It all depends on the type of person, your wording, how you say it. This is one reason we love to use metaphors as the mind cannot reject what it doesn't know is being suggested.

A good thing for you to do right now is to read Gordon's Therapeutic Metaphors and you just may wish to spend extra time writing metaphors so that you can become the metaphor queen of England. Perhaps 400 or more of them. I've known people that have purchased that book used for one whole US$ Perhaps you can write soooo many good stories that you can actually sell them to hypnotherapists that are not good at it. ;)

Deal or no deal?

Pood :)

And back to the subject of hypnosis and mothers. Mine never believed in it and thought it was just people showing off or being stupid, etc. etc. EVEN THOUGH SHE KNEW I HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH MY CLIENTS. One night we were in the Emergency Room and we had been there quite some time and were finally waiting for them to find her a room in the hospital. She was very old and very tired. She asked me if I would PLEASE HYPNOTISE HER SO SHE COULD GET SOME REST. She went in like a lamb. They came to get her and I told them to be quiet. She was in a hypnotic trance. They looked "confused". She got transferred to her room and had a wonderful night's sleep. NEVER SAY NEVER!!

[Conca]

you just may wish to spend extra time writing metaphors so that you can become the metaphor queen of England.
errrrm pood... you know i'd technicallybe the metaphor king of england?

[Poodle]

Sorry 'bout that. Henry the 8th is taken around here so you'll have to come up with another. :o

Pood

[Conca]

haha lol no worries mate i didn't say i was male so its not your fault

[Merlin]

i understand now that family and girlfriends are not very good hypnotic subjects and i know now that she will always see me as me instead of a hypnotist even if i become the best in the world (i'm not saying i will)
don't be afraid to tell yourself you will :)

[Conca]

ok i won't and hopefully one day i will become good and then with more practice great and maybe if i'm lucky i may be the best

[Conca]

oh by the way merlin, this college is nearby to me and i'm wondering if you'll take a look at the website? (I'm getting there.)

[Poodle]

I am really wondering what's up with their website. Where does it say what YOU will learn and where does it say HOW MUCH and for HOW MANY HOURS (DAYS/WEEKS/MONTHS?).

Very nice in stating what hypnosis can do.

Please remove the link so a moderator does not have to do it. Thank you!!

Pood :confused:

[Conca]

oh sorry are there no links allowed?

[Conca]

and yeah it is a bit confusing (or maybe just "artfully vague") bu i've emailed them to ask the price and how long etc. so ill let you know when i know so you can tell me if its any good