where is the help?

[youarefeelingverysleepy]

where is the help in this forum? alot of people in this place seem to have a supierority complex in that if they are professional or very experienced then they seem to reply to posts where help, tips, tricks of the trade are asked then a lengthy response basically telling the person that they should learn more, and don't come to us with stupid questions. I came here looking for help trying to learn everything i can by reading and by doing and although i have asked no questions a lot of things i have read here basically get the response, you are a mere mortal, do not bother us gods with your silly questions. I have also noticed alot of negative attitudes, again from experienced members/posters towards us amateurs we come here looking for help on whatever aspect of hypnosis and get told they are not responsible enough. If you experienced members have noticed that this site is NOT called hypnotherapy.com and if it was then you may not get the people in here asking about stage hypnosis, but as I have noticed you do get these people who are interested in HYPNOSIS not THERAPY and who may want to use it for entertainment but these people get told to grow up and show some responibility(not all of the time). Sorry if i have upset people here I was just trying to make a point. If anyone else has this opinion please speak up because I personally want to learn as much as possible about hypnosis wether it be for therapy or stage or whatever but I can;t see the point in asking questions here because i will just get told to read more books or do a course I say again where is the help?

[HypnoSonic]

If anyone else has this opinion please speak up because I personally want to learn as much as possible about hypnosis...IMO, your post is very close to the reality of what goes on at this forum.

You left out the typical response a post like this receives which is, "If you don't like it you can go elsewhere." :rolleyes:

[Sleep]

i will just get told to read more books or do a course I say again where is the help?

looked like help to me.

[parsa]

I don't agree with your views.

I don't know if any of you guys have ever been teachers, maybe you have. But as a person who has taught stuff (not hypnosis or anything of the like), to me, the responces given here seem very appropriate.
This is my experience: There are very very few good educators. Among the rest there are many that are liked, but if you stand on the other side of the river where you are not a student you get to see that most of them just have a talent of making people 'feel' like they have learned. And eventually sometime in life they realize they haven't.
Now on this board, you have a group of educators that are really patient and very honest. They are honest about what they think needs to be done for you to get what you want. This is not something you come by in todays society that often. I have 'hands on :) ' experience with this and many many stories.

[HypnoSonic]

...looked like help to me.What do you mean?

[youareverysleepy]

o.k, looks like help to you thats fine go read more books about the same thing you have read over and over and over. I want to learn not just from books and my experiences but from the experts experiences in this forum. I believe getting information in relation to a perticular aspect of a particular subject from an expert can benefit the learning process substantially. you can read all the books in the world but it doesn't mean you will be any good at what you do. people will reach a plateau with most of thier skills at which point to further you need the extra help from other people, books don't offer this, people and there experience do and I don't find a great deal of this here. and as was said if you don't like it go elswhere which is a fair point but I would be reducing the resources at my disposal to learn hypnosis. sleep, please read as much as you can but you WILL reach a plateau that you will not be able to rise above unless an expert helps you personally. that doesn't really mean you have to do a course because there are experts here. a few tips and pointers can build hugely on what you know already.

[HypnoSonic]

o.k, looks like help to you thats fine go read more books about the same thing you have read over and over and over.I was actually agreeing with your first post and didn't understand your second.

[youarefeelinverysleepy]

it is directed at sleep. i am saying that reading can take you so far, thats it after that to really learn you need guidance from a person. being told to read more doesn't help( if you have read and learned and have reached a plateau) doing a course is great but it costs time and money, something not a lot of people have a great deal of so then there are forums a virtual classroom where the experts are the teachers and can give specific advice that may help the individual/group. but the teachers say go and read more, do a course. fantastic a web site has been set up to tell people to read more and do a course I know i sound bitter but i'm not i am just trying to help people see my point of view

[Merlin]

>where is the help in this forum?

The answers are there, but you may not fully understand them yet.

>alot of people in this place seem to have a supierority complex in that if they are professional or very experienced then they seem to reply to posts where help, tips, tricks of the trade are asked then a lengthy response basically telling the person that they should learn more, and don't come to us with stupid questions.

That is what you perceive.
The answers are usually there.
But you must have sufficient skill to recognise the answer given.

>I came here looking for help trying to learn everything i can by reading and by doing and although i have asked no questions a lot of things i have read here basically get the response, you are a mere mortal, do not bother us gods with your silly questions.

Ah, but you see, reading here is just like reading a book.
It may be interactive, but it's still *just reading*
Those on the forum with experience recognise that reading isn't enough.
Therefore we encourage you to go where you can get 'hands-on' training.

>I have also noticed alot of negative attitudes, again from experienced members/posters towards us amateurs we come here looking for help on whatever aspect of hypnosis and get told they are not responsible enough.

Sometimes that is a true observation.
Many of the old timers here are therapists who perceive the playfulness of children as harmful.
Since they live by the creed *do no harm* they are bound to avoid answers they perceive would be harmful.

>If you experienced members have noticed that this site is NOT called hypnotherapy.com and if it was then you may not get the people in here asking about stage hypnosis, but as I have noticed you do get these people who are interested in HYPNOSIS not THERAPY and who may want to use it for entertainment but these people get told to grow up and show some responibility(not all of the time).

True
First, DO NO HARM
The therapists live by this.
The have a moral obligation to this before an obligation to you.


You do seem to have a misperception about this forum though.
Pretty much everyone has come here as a guest.
The 'old timers' are as much a guest as you are.
They are free to post their thoughts just as you are.
There is no obligation for any of them to answer any question, or to answer it in a way that suits you.

Often, it is not the question, but how it is asked that matters in how it is answered.


>Sorry if i have upset people here I was just trying to make a point.

You are free to express your thoughts.
It won't be moderated unless it is perceived as offending someone.

But notice the attitude you are communicating.
No one here has an obligation to help you.
Everyone is free to answer as they see fit.
Why would someone want to help a person who comes here attacking them?
There is a saying that you can attract flies better with honey than with vinegar.
Are your posts honey, or vinegar?


>If anyone else has this opinion please speak up because I personally want to learn as much as possible about hypnosis wether it be for therapy or stage or whatever but I can;t see the point in asking questions here because i will just get told to read more books or do a course I say again where is the help?

OK, here's how I do it:
Walk up to someone.
Take their hand. Set it on a table.
Tell them " your hand is superglued to the table and cannot move".
Is that helpful?

I may hammer a nail and do it well.
I can tell and show you *exactly* how I do it, but it won't work as well for you.
You are unique.
Your body and mind are different from mine.
I could share my method with another experienced carpenter, say Skip.
He'd find my method awkward and clumsy.
He's developed his own methods.

In fact, most people who use tools have one tool they prefer.
If I gave Skip my hammer, that alone would be awkward for him.

Tools are interchangable for newbies but changing tools is awkward for an artisan.
Books cannot teach this.
Neither can a forum.
It takes hands-on, in-person experience.


>o.k, looks like help to you thats fine go read more books about the same thing you have read over and over and over.

I haven't seen anyone say only to read more books.

>I want to learn not just from books and my experiences but from the experts experiences in this forum.

As I said:
Walk up to someone.
Take their hand. Set it on a table.
Tell them " your hand is superglued to the table and cannot move".

Freely given.
I cannot show you though.
How helpful is it?

>I believe getting information in relation to a perticular aspect of a particular subject from an expert can benefit the learning process substantially.

After you have some experience, the advice is of tremendous value.
I learn from Skip, Jack, Terry, and such because I have the basic skills and knowledge.
You can too.
But you must learn to add before asking and *understanding* effective methods of calculus.


>you can read all the books in the world but it doesn't mean you will be any good at what you do.

Very true.
That is true of forums like this one too.


>people will reach a plateau with most of thier skills at which point to further you need the extra help from other people, books don't offer this, people and there experience do and I don't find a great deal of this here.

True.
But to take advantage of an answer, you must first have understanding.

>and as was said if you don't like it go elswhere which is a fair point but I would be reducing the resources at my disposal to learn hypnosis.

That's right
"if you don't like it"
but that's your personal choice.

>please read as much as you can but you WILL reach a plateau that you will not be able to rise above unless an expert helps you personally.

The operative word is *personally*
That means in person, not notes in a forum.

>that doesn't really mean you have to do a course because there are experts here.

but not there.
You need personal, not more reading.

>a few tips and pointers can build hugely on what you know already.

OK, here's how I do it:
Walk up to someone.
Take their hand. Set it on a table.
Tell them " your hand is superglued to the table and cannot move".
Is that helpful?

>i am saying that reading can take you so far, thats it after that to really learn you need guidance from a person.

Since you realise this, why do you not seek in-person help?

>doing a course is great but it costs time and money,

Yes, as with just about any artisan skill.

>something not a lot of people have a great deal of

If you want it bad enough, you'll find the resources.

>so then there are forums a virtual classroom where the experts are the teachers and can give specific advice that may help the individual/group.

But this is not such a place.
This is not a virtual classroom.

I wish you success in your endeavors.

[Terry (existing)]

Nothing wrong with your perception of what you need to progress, but this is not the place, as I said in another post. If cost of training is a problem, too sad, but nothing we can do will change that, any more than we can supply trainers everywere where they are needed. We exist to some extent to help the progress of those already trained, and wishing to gain experience as quicky as possible, and even this is no always possible. Anything we say here can be misinterpreted and misused, so we do our best not to help spread information that can be so used.

[youarefeelingsleepy]

firstly, your fingers must be killin ya after that reply. secondly, Merlin, did you ever think about being a shaolin monk?
words of wisdom they may be, using vinegar instead of honey i have. I have taken your advice without question and in future will try honey(I realise this wasn't your only piece of advice). You say this isn't a class room, maybe so, but you offer more guidance than you you realise, you hit a nerve that no book can(even though i am still reading).........cheers

[youareverytired]

i think i will have to register, my name changes almost every post

[TaffyE]

Sleepy,

You can't learn to swim without getting wet. You can't learn to ride a bike from a book.

You can't learn any more from reading tips here than in a book. One on one is the way to go, or find a hypnotherapist who will let you sit in and watch, or let you "have a go" yourself.'

There are many posters here who range from newly trained to highly experienced, yet as has been explained, this is not a training forum.

There is no substitute for experience of hands on, which you will get from a half decent training. Can't afford it? Might I suggest - start saving?

[daydreamer]

i am in the process of saving but will take quite a bit of time in the mean time i want to pick up all i can

[Robert H]

sure, some of the course are expensive. And most of them are worth far more than the cost of the course.

In this day and age there is probably more available to you than you realize. For instance - there are study groups available in almost every city. If there isn't in yours you can start one. And believe me --- you will learn something faster facilitating a group of like minded people learning it than you would in probably any other way.

Also, in many cities there are the "Free Universities" which are not exactly free, but offer short courses in many topics related to NLP, and hypnosis.

There are tons of articles on the web. Even video and audio demonstrations.

There are audio and video tapes which are often available through your local library or inter-library loan programs.

Some institutes have a limited number of scholarship type programs available, or other types of financial aid.

If you can't afford it yoiu might consider getting NLP / hypnotherapy around the issue of prosperity.

There are some trainers that are willing to take people on as personal apprentices - giving even more extensive training than is available in a course. Richard Bandler has done this several times.. However, in order to do this you have to get and maintain rapport ( that is a friendly relationship ) with them.

Also - with books....if you take what you find in books out in the real world -- you have a learning laboratory. You can learn as much this way as you can taking a course.

Finally - what is it specifically you want help with?? I get the impression you were looking for something specific....if so...name it...I promise you that I will do my best to provide what you are looking for --- given that I have the informatoin you are looking for and that it is relatively ethical.

Robert

[Don]

Hello, YAFVS.

I understand where you are coming from, and I regret that you are at a point where you feel frustrated. But there are a couple of things I would like to share and I hope you will understand.

We had said many times (and I imagine, we will say it many more times, too) that we cannot do therapy and we cannot do trainings on this forum. Now, your question is not about hypnotherapy, so I'm not going to add to that.

But your questions is about hypnosis. There are a couple of reasons why we cannot do trainings in this forum:

1) A good training will take many hours. We can't give those hours here.
2) A good training will let you practice under the watchful eye of your trainer. We can't do that here.
3) A good trainer will observe his or her students, and by way of body language, etc., will be able to tell if the students are understanding the material.
4) A good training will include a wide variety of information, including some that is "graded." Now, by that I don't mean that you get an A-F for a test, but rather that you get certain information followed by more that depends upon your understanding of what has already been shared. Then, you get more information based on what you know.

Time after time people have asked questions and received accurate responses, but because they didn't have basic understanding and training, they didn't understand the answers.

Time after time people have asked questions and received accurate responses. They reply, "Of course! Why didn't I think of that?" For example, one person was trying to prove to an audience that a person was hypnotized. I suggested they have them all hold their arms out and do a stiff arm. Eventually, everyone except the hypnotized person would drop their arm. The person said that was a great idea. Others gave ideas, too.

Now here's the thing. There's not enough room here to explain how to hypnotize and then how to perform the stiff arm "test." The questioner had obviously had training and knew what was necessary to do the test.

On the other hand, we also get people who ask something such as "is there a script I can use to get rid of a phobia?" We ethically and practically can't give out that information. We can't train a person how to do hypnosis. If we give a script, it may not work for a particular person. Then what?

I realize that you feel some answers sound like "you are a mere mortal." In actuality, however, they are "we can't write three chapters in a book and post them here. Get some training and you'll know the basics and we can help."

Yes, there are some people who have negative attitudes. But you know, you're going to meet all sorts of people in life. The question is, how do I get a postive attitude from someone? Now, as one person posted, nobody here owes anyone anything. Further, anyone can post here (as long as it's not advertising, mostly insults, etc.). So instead of saying there are some negative people here, wouldn't it be better to ask the question, "How do I turn these people around so they help me more?" I'll tell you how I discovered ways to do that--I took some in-person hypnosis trainings. It was covered there. I can't tell you everything I learned because there's not enough room. Look for the book, Instant Raport by Brooks. That may help.

There are people who come here and give free information on hypnosis, on hypnotherapy, on NLP, and on other, related topics. Nobody pays anyone a cent to do this.

I can't answer for others, but you've not upset me. You presented your frustration quite eloquently. But let me put it another way. Imagine coming up to a programmer and saying, "Will you please give me a quick program for a three-dimensional database that I can program? And do it in a few hundred words in a forum."

Or imagine someone saying, "Please explain how I can modify my red laser pointer to put out a green light. And do it in a few hundred words in a forum."

I think all questions, honestly asked, deserve a fair answer that the questioner can thoroughly understand. What do we say when, given the limitation of space, we can't give a thorough answer which can be understood? But in the examples above, the responder can't give an answer because 1) there's not enough space and 2) the questioner isn't ready for the answer even though they have asked it. They need to learn a great deal before the answer would make sense.

I'm reminded of an old Bill Cosby routine about a child in kindergarten.

Teacher: 1+1 is 2
Child: Cool. 1+1 is 2. Yeah, man. 1+1 is 2....What's a 2?


You ask for help and are directed to books or trainings where you can get that help because we don't have room, time, or the ability to ethically answer the question in a few hundred words. You are directed to exactly where the help is, but you don't like that answer.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps if you accepted the answer as accurate and appropriate you'd be saying, "I see. This is a complex topic and I need more study in certain areas. Thank you!"

Of perhaps you'll never feel that way.

[daydreamer]

hmm, point taken, makes sense. I thnk I might try and get some videos, I had never actually thought about that. Can anyone suggest any good videos ?

[Merlin]

Omnihypnosis has some individual tapes and offers complete training courses by video.
Just realise they are limited too.
Hands-on is best.