View Full Version : Suggestions
Conca
04-16-2009, 11:39 AM
Right, I can easily get deep hypnosis now but I'm unsure about something,
Elman says that if someone is in somnambulism and you give a suggestion and then tell them to open their eyes, because there is a suggestion implanted they will stay somnambulistic.
1. Is this true?
2. Does it mean then that if you didn't give a suggestion and had them open their eyes they would wake from the trance?
3. Also the example he used was that he told a woman that every time he pulls his tie she will feel an urge to turn on the phonograph and tells a man that every time someone turns on the phonograph he will feel an urge to turn it off. He woke them up and pulled his tie and the woman slowly looked at the phonograph but resisted. The second time she looks quicker and the third time she races over and does it. Is this due to compounding (because it got stronger each time) or was it because it became an annoyance to the woman?
:hyp: Thanks. :hyp:
1. They stay in hypnosis because you have not brought them out.
2. No, it means that they open their eyes.
3. It was because she didn't understand and her conscious was fighting her unconscious. Eventually, her unconscious won.
Jacquin
04-16-2009, 02:47 PM
1. Is this true?
2. Does it mean then that if you didn't give a suggestion and had them open their eyes they would wake from the trance?
3. Also the example he used was that he told a woman that every time he pulls his tie she will feel an urge to turn on the phonograph and tells a man that every time someone turns on the phonograph he will feel an urge to turn it off. He woke them up and pulled his tie and the woman slowly looked at the phonograph but resisted. The second time she looks quicker and the third time she races over and does it. Is this due to compounding (because it got stronger each time) or was it because it became an annoyance to the woman?
1. As a famous hypnotist once said 'Hypnosis is not a state of eyelids'. They are hypnotised regrdless of the status of their eyelids.
2. Watch a stage hypnosis act. They do not often have eyes closed when carrying out the suggestion. When carrying out a post hypnotic act you are hypnotised. One thing that seems to confuse those learning hypnosis is that on some of the suggestibility scales 'eyes open' hypnosis is right up there with positive hallucinations. Nonsense of course like most other ideas wrapped up in those scales.
3. See Don's comment above. She is trying to resist something that has to happen.
Ant
Poodle
04-16-2009, 03:01 PM
Read an easier to understand book that explains a lot of why and what Elman, for one, did. You will find it on Merlin's Suggested Reading List. It is HYPNOSIS - A Comprehensive Guide by Tad James. In it you will read that Elman used eye opening and closing for fractionation -- deepen the trance. We do it with what we call "the Mesmeric pass". It also explains some Ericksonian as well as my least favorite, Estabrooks. It has a short but accurate history of hypnosis, suggestibility tests and other useful info.
In recordings of Dave Elman teaching to the medical community with real live patients, the trance would be induced. Patients walked to different rooms for different tests with their eyes OPEN. They were in trance until he emerged them or they emerged on their own.
Pood :)
Merlin
04-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Mr. Elman's stuff is good, but 60+ years old.
1-no
2- hypnosis is not about trance.
they are different
3- compounding is meaningless for hypnosis.
but it is often used with trance.
Poodle
04-16-2009, 03:09 PM
Would you please read Merlin's FAQ's. They will explain a whole bunch of what you are questioning.
Mr. Elman's stuff is good, but 60+ years old.
1-no
2- hypnosis is not about trance.
they are different
3- compounding is meaningless for hypnosis.
but it is often used with trance.
Merlin,
could you please elaborate more on point number 3? My teachers relied very heavily on compounding and never talked about trance, just to clarify their very Elmanian view.
Vin
Poodle
04-17-2009, 10:39 AM
We all well know about your teacher(s). In the Journal I was reading last night is an article by one of them on how absolutely fantastic abreactions are and it's such a shame they are not being taught much today.
OMG!! The client had lived through it once. Is that not more than sufficient. Is it totally necessary to do drag it out by the roots therapy? We have other ways of dealing with those issues called NLP and time line work. That in no way takes away any respect and admiration I have for that specific teacher.
Merlin has this explained very well in her FAQ. There is a large difference between trance and hypnosis. We get caught up just using the word trance to mean a hypnotic trance. There are all kinds of trances, but they are not hypnotic trances, ie., hypnosis.
Pood :)
Merlin
04-23-2009, 11:35 AM
3- compounding is meaningless for hypnosis.
but it is often used with trance.
Merlin,
could you please elaborate more on point number 3? My teachers relied very heavily on compounding and never talked about trance, just to clarify their very Elmanian view.
Vin
they are mistaken wrt their understanding of the need for compounding
a well structured suggestion, given with hypnosis, doesn't need compounding.
watch a stage show.
imagine your boredom with each suggestion compounded 10 times.
Pretty clear, Merlin. So, the compounding of suggestion is needed/preferrable when the CF is not bypassed, just like in "normal learning" repetita iuvant?
Vin
Conca
04-24-2009, 06:58 AM
Pretty clear, Merlin. So, the compounding of suggestion is needed/preferrable when the CF is not bypassed, just like in "normal learning" repetita iuvant?
Vin
any signs for when the CF is bypassed?
Merlin
04-24-2009, 12:21 PM
yes.
very good.
Jacquin
04-24-2009, 12:35 PM
It is simple really. Give suggestions and see if you get an honest unconscious response. Yes there is some slim chance they might act and a slimmer one they will fool you. However this does not mean the only decent test is the pupil dilation test.
Just give suggestions and gauge their response. If in doubt ramp up the suggestions until you are satisfied. Try sticking someone to something and see if you cannot tell if they are acting or not. Give them amnesia for something or everything and see if you can tell.
Stop looking for subtle signs. Just test your work.
Anthony
Conca
04-25-2009, 06:22 AM
It is simple really. Give suggestions and see if you get an honest unconscious response. Yes there is some slim chance they might act and a slimmer one they will fool you. However this does not mean the only decent test is the pupil dilation test.
Just give suggestions and gauge their response. If in doubt ramp up the suggestions until you are satisfied. Try sticking someone to something and see if you cannot tell if they are acting or not. Give them amnesia for something or everything and see if you can tell.
Stop looking for subtle signs. Just test your work.
Anthony
cheers anthony
also by the way i'm going to invest in the home study course from keith livingston
Merlin
04-25-2009, 09:38 AM
It is simple really. Give suggestions and see if you get an honest unconscious response. Yes there is some slim chance they might act and a slimmer one they will fool you. However this does not mean the only decent test is the pupil dilation test.
Anthony
that's right.
pupil dilation is just one of many possible, difficult to fake tests.
yes, even dilating only one pupil can be faked if you know how. most people don't know how.:eek:
Conca
04-25-2009, 01:32 PM
ahh now here's the problem:
i cant afford it because of the recession (we need to save every penny)
also because of the exchange rate its more expensive to us in the UK as opposed to you in the US because instead of it being 1 pound to 2 dollars ats now about 1:1 but check out my other post because i might be going to a local hypnotherapist