View Full Version : Hypnotising the unbeleivers
Nicholas
08-06-2005, 01:26 PM
Hey everyone, hope you're all well.
I've got a problem. One of my friends doesn't believe in hypnotism, and I have as yet not even been able to get simple Ideometer responses from him cause he won't take it seriously.
Does anyone know any scripts, or methods, through which I can hypnotise him, without him being completely aware of it, just so I can prove that hypnotism is real. He has a short attention span and doesn't pick up on body language very much, so I'm at a loss as to what to do. I'm not all that good at hypnotism yet anyway, so anything simple would be helpful.
Also does a good ideometer response mean that someone is easily hypnotised, or is it just a possible indication.
Finally, I ordered "Sleight of Mind" from amazon and it's taking ages. (It originally said 4-6 weeks, then they put an additional 4-6 on that.) Are there any sites that are a little quicker? (I've been to several book shops and non of them can even trace it, so that's a no go area).
Thanks for reading me drone on for so long again, and cheers in advance for any replies.
VBR-Now
08-06-2005, 01:57 PM
Nicholas,
I would ask yourself..."for what purpose do you feel the need to make your friend believe?"
and then think about....
All hypnosis is effectively self hypnosis. The fact that your friend "won't take it seriously" appears, from an NLP perspective, to be "Perception is Projection".
Once you believe then there will be changes in the response that you get.
Find a trainer or a practice group, develop your skills, and enjoy the journey.
VBR-NOW
Dizzy
08-06-2005, 02:35 PM
I would use subliminal messages to show him your ability, then when he believes a little, you can use that uncertainty to bring him under. Or you could hypnotise from sleep; more difficult, but much more effective.
Nicolas,
Sounds to me like you both have some ego at stake here.
How successful do you expect yourself to be, when you know that he honestly doesnt want you to succeed, because it would mean that his beliefs are incorrect?
In a theraputic enviornment, a skilled professional, would handle this by structuring things in such a way that he couldnt help but co-operate. Using such things as binds.
One of the neatest binds ever concieved is, "The more intelligent you are, the easier it is for you to be hypnotized." Leaves the fellow with quite a delima doesnt it? Which does he prefer, everyone to believe he is intelligent, or unhypnotizable?
It is unrealistic for a beginner to expect the same of themselves.
It is unrealistic to take someone, who is practicing hypnosis casually, and for entertainment purposes, and expect them to overcome that kind of resistance.
A professional stage hypnotist would simply tell your friend to, "Go back and sit down."
and use someone who really wanted to succeed.
A smart amature would simply tell your friend to "Go back and let someone who really wants to succeed have a go, and stop wasting everyone's time."
Why should you be any different?
Screw these ego(d) deals, "You cant hypnotize me, and since you cant, you are bogus, or hypnosis is bogus."
Just tell him, "You are right you are the consumate unhypnotizable freak, now go sit down and let this attractive young lady and I have our opportunity."
skip
who may have read this scenerio all wrong, but who had fun writing this response anyway.
Skip is quite right. When he says, "you can't hypnotize me," here are some things to say. Don't use more than one at a time, and make sure you can run faster than him:
1) You're right. If you don't want to be hypnotized, I can't hypnotize you.
2) That's true. I can only hypnotize people who are thoughful and creative.
3) I know. So far, I've only been able to hypnotize people who have an IQ above 50.
4) I could hypnotize you, but then you'd just end up having a bunch of friends like I do.
5) I've tried hypnotizing people with horrible body odor and always failed. Are you sure you don't want to let me try with you?
6) Hmmmmm... I wonder what you're afraid you might reveal when you're hypnotized...
7) I've already hypnotized you. I gave you a suggestion that tonight you'll go to sleep. Try fighting it.
Nicholas
08-07-2005, 02:45 AM
Cheers guys some very good points there.
Skip I suppose you're right. It's just an ego jostle between me and my friend, (but he started it ;) ). Very childish yes, but I thoroughly enjoy it.
And thank you Don, I shall certainly try all of those statements. All very funny, and our friendship is more than strong enough to withstand those comments, but I think I'll leave them untill after we've had our little kickboxing session at the park this morning.
Does anyone know why www.magicshop...... doesn't even recognise Sleight of mind as a registered book anymore?
error265
08-07-2005, 03:04 AM
i thought skips and don's responses were perfect...dont bother mate learn hypnosis first get good, then start worrying about how to hypnosis those who dont want to.
fussyhypno
08-07-2005, 09:46 AM
well, i have done this on 2 people that didnt want to hypnotised so far, both it worked on.
Do light arm heavy arm, if it worked then do hand stick to table, then wether it worked or not, tell them you have a good one, get them sitted and go from there!
It worked for me. Nice ideas there people.
fussyhypno
I'd been looking for some info on NLP--the "Quackwatch," stuff's good, but I wanted to see what you folks had to say for yourselves--and I ran across this Forum, along with stuff about Bander and Grindler repeatedly suing each other, a lot of pseudoscience, and the "Ancient Hawaiian Wisdom," of something called, "Huna." (Apparently Hawaii was once the center of a mighty continent that sank and left wisdom behind, kinda like Atlantis.)
It's really none of my business, and everybody's beliefs are, I suppose, silly to outsiders. But there are some real danger signals on this forum--hypnotizing people who don't want to be hypnotized? hypnotizing from sleep? the Ideometer? notions of superiority?--and I hope you folks don't get hurt, or hurt other people.
Be careful, eh? You're monkeying around with serious stuff, not to mention the sad history of groups like NLP.
Terry (existing)
08-07-2005, 11:26 AM
I'd been looking for some info on NLP--the "Quackwatch," stuff's good, but I wanted to see what you folks had to say for yourselves--and I ran across this Forum, along with stuff about Bander and Grindler repeatedly suing each other, a lot of pseudoscience, and the "Ancient Hawaiian Wisdom," of something called, "Huna." (Apparently Hawaii was once the center of a mighty continent that sank and left wisdom behind, kinda like Atlantis.)
It's really none of my business, and everybody's beliefs are, I suppose, silly to outsiders. But there are some real danger signals on this forum--hypnotizing people who don't want to be hypnotized? hypnotizing from sleep? the Ideometer? notions of superiority?--and I hope you folks don't get hurt, or hurt other people.
Be careful, eh? You're monkeying around with serious stuff, not to mention the sad history of groups like NLP. A facinating post, but not all posts beg for a reply (G) Perhaps, since the only post mentioned was one initiated by a thirteen year old, this one also is from a child, I wonder?
Nicholas
08-07-2005, 03:49 PM
Well I'm sorry if anyone has found this thread disturbing in any way, it was not intended that way. In fact anyone who thinks that nlp/hypnosis is a way of getting people to agree with their way of thinking, unnaturally, has obviously not studied it enough.
If you watch people in their natural behaviour winning someone to their way of thinking, it is considered to be acceptable, but when you put a label on it like nlp, suddenly it becomes mind control, and unacceptable, even though it is the same thing, and at most an enhancement of our already well astablished communication skills, and it becomes evil mind control. That is rubbish. As many books state hypnosis is a co-operation, and not a control. It is very difficult to get someone to do something against their survival instincts and even their normal behaviour. Anything that is done is done with their acceptance. Or it would not be possible. Making someone believe in hypnotism can only be done if they are open to changes in their beliefe system in the first place.
If you are really that worried, you shouldn't be. There are laws against anything that would be harmful to be people.
Also we are not all like that wierd extremest muslim teacher in britain (with the glass eye and hook for a hand), who brought people round to thinking that western society was evil. Most people do not have profoundly evil intentions in mind.
By the way, i'm not sure if what terry said was about me being thirteen. I was a little unsure about his phrasing, about the post being created by a thirteen year old, and the post about insecurity in hypnotism, being eaqually young, but just to make sure i'm not thirteen, you can read on my profile my age (I think).
fussyhypno
08-07-2005, 04:19 PM
i agree that you cannot get anyone hypnotised that dont want to be hypnotised, but if they are willing to change their way of thinkin, then yes you can. It is what you do with them that is where it could be seen as wrong, but they still have control, and wont do anything they dont want to do, and if they originaly didnt want to be hypnotised, then they probably wont do alot, but just to get into trance, then out and back in again, which is what i did to those 2 people, should be enough.
And just to clear it up again as i also was a little unsure about the phrasing, i am not 13, i arnt sure if it is in my profile, ill go check :-)
fussyhypno
error265
08-08-2005, 06:46 AM
the answers are already in this thread!, - when your good enough you will know how!
Cassandra 8
08-08-2005, 08:30 AM
Finally, I ordered "Sleight of Mind" from amazon and it's taking ages. (It originally said 4-6 weeks, then they put an additional 4-6 on that.) Are there any sites that are a little quicker? (I've been to several book shops and non of them can even trace it, so that's a no go area).You are, are you not, the same Nicholas who asked this very same question on 06-30-2005, at 05:00 PM BST.
Did you not bother looking at my answer to you then, after I went to the trouble of befriending Google for you?
Obsevation is so frightfully important in hypnosis.
Cassandra 8
08-08-2005, 09:15 AM
You are, are you not, the same Nicholas who asked this very same question on 06-30-2005, at 05:00 PM BST.
Did you not bother looking at my answer to you then, after I went to the trouble of befriending Google for you?
Obsevation is so frightfully important in hypnosis.I am, of course, experimenting with irony. It's a little like brassy, but magnetic. :D
fussyhypno
08-08-2005, 10:04 AM
your doing well! :-)
i think, lol
"I'd been looking for some info on NLP--the "Quackwatch," stuff's good,"
Yep, nothing like qualified, unbiased, sources.
" but I wanted to see what you folks had to say for yourselves"
With respect to what?
"and I ran across this Forum, along with stuff about Bander and Grindler repeatedly suing each other, a lot of pseudoscience,"
You really get around. Do you also believe everything you read from any source?
"and the "Ancient Hawaiian Wisdom," of something called, "Huna." (Apparently Hawaii was once the center of a mighty continent that sank and left wisdom behind, kinda like Atlantis.)"
I suspect if you were to read up on 'Plate Tectonics', you might be better informed about Hawaii.
"It's really none of my business,"
That sure begs a question doesnt it?
"and everybody's beliefs are, I suppose, silly to outsiders."
Everyones? Always? Even yours?
"But there are some real danger signals on this forum--hypnotizing people who don't want to be hypnotized? hypnotizing from sleep? the Ideometer? notions of superiority?--and I hope you folks don't get hurt, or hurt other people."
Dangerous to whom and in what way?
"Be careful, eh? You're monkeying around with serious stuff, not to mention the sad history of groups like NLP."
This said from a presumed position of authority. How do you know it is serious? And just because some groups have had, according to you, a "sad history", what guarantees that NLP will as well? And just what does "Be Careful" mean. Do it well? Or not at all?
No doubt we all appreciate some 'adult', either figuratively or literally, showing up to lead us from the path of darkness. But how can we be sure it is you we should follow?
I have little doubt you could lead us to new frontiers, as long as it didnt require you to stray too far from the smoke of your fireplace.
cheers,
skip
Cassandra 8
08-08-2005, 10:55 AM
your doing well! :-)
i think, lolMight as well have a laugh rather than rise to the bait, eh?
Our guest Unre fears what he doesn't understand and wants others to join him. Not exactly clever to try that here, eh?
A tedious 3/10.
coyotekin
08-08-2005, 12:53 PM
Ah, personality, such a pleasant and wondrous thing in a woman. Were I perhaps of the appropriate age, depending on their views, I would indeed enjoy getting to know any of them better. ;) And I am still young enough to be a gentleman, and not old enough to be a dirty, old man......yet.
As for everything else I liked a lot of the responses, and many of them just left me laughing. Our guest seems to get around, but seems to only focus on the occasionally negative things he/she finds. I myself am still very new to Hypnosis and NLP, but from my experience with people on different forums combined with the large amounts of information out there I have come to find it to be fascinating, safe, responsible, and truly cooperative. As for NLP being some kind of mind control or what have you I would say yes and no. Just as I would say yes and no to manipulating others to get what you want as a yes or no. Both could be used for negative, as well as positive effects. Truth be told though you will find that the average person uses several NLP techniques without ever truly realizing it. So that leaves you with quite a few people, skilled Orators if you will, that you need to point your finger at as well.
As a side note, I would love to meet up with anyone that happens to be close to Linda, Marysville, Yuba City, Roseville, or Sacramento California to study with each other and learn more. And hopefully, assuming that I still get to go, would enjoy to find others in Okinawa to continue my ever-continuing training and studying.
I've refrained from commenting until now because it is clear that our guest "Unre" is what is commonly called an "internet troll." A wonderful analysis of this type of person can be found at http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm . The definition given is that an internet troll"... is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people."
The author of the page notes that "it is futile to try to "cure" a troll of his obsession," in this case, the obsession being denouncing anything he (and it is usually a "he," although I've seen a few "shes"), acting like a god trying to protect his idiot people, from anything he doesn't like or doesn't understand. The author of the website notes that Internet Trolls make their posts to stir things up so they can get attention. Everyone who comments, even if they attack him and show how wrong he is, gives him affirmation of his existence.
BTW, I went to the site he mentioned. It's very hard trying to find anything about NLP on that site, and the few paragraphs that are posted and that I could find are generalized to a point of sheer stupidity. Some of their comments are factually in error.
The point missed so far is why Unre decided he needed to be researching NLP in the first place and why the full extent of his research seems to be a site that provides inaccurate information intended for debunkers. It would appear the Unre is too lazy and too undisciplined to do any sort of valid research (a feature common to debunkers, although not limited to them. It seems to be common to fundamentalist religionists who are their de facto brothers).
I realize this post may, unfortunately, bring back Unre for more comments. However, I'm not posting here for him. I'm posting for all the other readers who, I hope, I can consider friends and guides. I'd like to share a simple idea about people such as Unre on the internet:
PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!
:)
coyotekin
08-08-2005, 01:04 PM
Can we keep them under the bridge as a warning and to keep other trolls on their side of the bridge? They can charge a toll, perhaps one goat to get across. It could be fun. :)
Cassandra 8
08-08-2005, 01:28 PM
Can we keep them under the bridge as a warning and to keep other trolls on their side of the bridge? They can charge a toll, perhaps one goat to get across. It could be fun. :)Indeed. Troll lends the pretender temporary status, which is of course craved. It's best to carry on without reference.
Maybe a posthyp to read such nonsense as "martian" would be fun to play around with here... :D
coyotekin
08-08-2005, 01:31 PM
Oooooooh, that could be fun Cassandra. LOL. Go for it. I plan to sit back, eat popcorn, and enjoy the show.:cool:
Terry (existing)
08-08-2005, 05:27 PM
Well Don, I agree to not feel the kind of troll you have in mind, but forgive me if I decide to feed the fishes this weekend by trolling across Lesser Slave Lake searching for wallleye and other such delicacies (G) I hope to do a little smoking also, but promise it won't be cigarettes......
fussyhypno
08-09-2005, 06:19 AM
lol, i think you need our website then :-)
oh wait a minute, your on about rolling your own, oh well :-) LOL
Cassandra 8
08-09-2005, 08:14 AM
I hope to do a little smoking also, but promise it won't be cigarettes......There's nothing quite like a toke in a boat, reading a book and noshing strawberries.
Uh...Skip? Of course plate tectonics tells us that the thing about Hawaii being a remnant of a lost continent is ridiculous. Unfortunately it's not my notion; I was paraphrasing your very own Dr. Tad James, one of the sponsors of this site--I simply looked through a little of the material, and found this priceless bit from a first chapter on a book the man wrote on this very website:
"AN ANCIENT SCIENCE: The science that is now called Huna is a very old science. We believe that it may be as old as 35,000 years old, and is a part of the original teachings of the peoples of the earth which were centered here in Hawaii on a continent which now, no longer exists. All that remains physically of that land are the mountain peaks of the island chain called Hawaii."
Will there be more pseudo-science? Will you just be hypnotizing me over the Internet till I quack like a duck? Or will there just be more of the same stuff scientologists used to try--you know, claiming that people who think the whole thing's silly are somehow afraid of the truth, in the hopes they'll keep talking to you?
As it happens, I did indeed give my exact reasons for being here at all. I got a couple questions about what NLP was, and to add to what I already knew about this particular quackery, I did maybe fifteen minutes' research on the Internet. That's what let me know about the founders of NLP suing each other and the weird Huna stuff, as well as what led me to a hypnosis forum with people talking about getting power over others.
But never fear; I'll check back, maybe, in a week or two just to see if I can find out what the, "hypnosis from sleep," thingy was, but Curious George will survive.
Dizzy
08-13-2005, 02:56 AM
You don't seem to understand this is an open exchange of ideas. If one person has such a belief, it does not follow that everyone here does.
Cassandra 8
08-13-2005, 04:31 AM
You don't seem to understand this is an open exchange of ideas. If one person has such a belief, it does not follow that everyone here does.You have to remember that this bloke is frightened of the unknown (to him) and has read something written by someone else who wanted him to believe something. He found this belief compatible with his fear and, frankly, has had his critical faculty bypassed. This other person's belief is absolute truth for him now.
See how easy it is to make a permenant change? As an example of the very pseudo-science he scoffs at, I've seen few better executed. :D
Terry (existing)
08-13-2005, 12:51 PM
Guest, there are many intellingent persons on this board, and off it, but in each and every case, I hope they recognise that their intellligence is limited to the few things they know and have studied. When I speak on hypnosis for instance, I expect intelligent persons to listen based on my many years of study, research and practise. However, if you or some other person has studied in a different field, and chose to teach me, I would sit in rapt attention to learn that which you know and I do not as yet know. That is called intelligence, and is not limited to what you know at present, but the sum total of what you will know in the future based on your learning skills, and willingness to learn. Dr James deserves respect in those areas he has studied, and for providing this board for our advancement in learning, but that by no means precludes any of us from believing differently to him on any and all subjects, even hypnosis at which he has some expertise I understand (G)..... It is discussion and disagrement which produces advancement in knowledge for all of us, and I would be ashamed of my friends here if they felt differently, since it is that sense which is called common, but seems to be very rare that I speak. I don't believe that any of us regulars intend to change your mind on anything, but a board by its very existance is a place for discussion, and for disagreement at times between intelligent persons. I have no idea if we have someone who has studied Atlantis, but its location would I suggest make little difference to any of us except perhaps to direct interest towards Huna, and even then it is just conjecture that it was developed in Atlantis, and of even less interest for us to know for sure the location of that lost continent..However, you do have a few choices at present, non of which can be proven conclusively, Viminy, somewere in the Med: beyond the Pillars of Hercules I am told, and it is open to discussion if this mithical place even existed at all, so what is the value of arguing?
I simply looked through a little of the material, and found this priceless bit from a first chapter on a book the man wrote on this very website:
"AN ANCIENT SCIENCE: The science that is now called Huna is a very old science. We believe that it may be as old as 35,000..."
Unre, what part of "We believe" didn't you understand?
Will there be more pseudo-science? Will you just be hypnotizing me over the Internet till I quack like a duck?
Why do you assume that anyone here would waste their time to do this at all? Do you have a need to quack like a duck? If so, why don't you just do it? Why are you so focused on ducks? Do you have an inability to make a "quack" sound and hope and pray that someone here can help you make such a sound? Do you feel you need to be able to "quack" because you have a duck fetish? You know, many people here could help you change that behavior.
Or will there just be more of the same stuff scientologists used to try--you know, claiming that people who think the whole thing's silly are somehow afraid of the truth, in the hopes they'll keep talking to you?
This is a forum that you would have to come to. People who respond to you do so of their own free will. You can leave at any time. There is no way we can make you keep talking--or more accurately, posting--here. That's your decision.
In fact, the interesting question is why you feel it is your responsibility to come here and attack people? Have you written to Dr. James--instead of whining in publi--and asked for some data to support his book? How do you know he don't have such support? List the five books you've read on Hawaiian history before the year 50 c.e.
As it happens, I did indeed give my exact reasons for being here at all. I got a couple questions about what NLP was, and to add to what I already knew about this particular quackery, I did maybe fifteen minutes' research on the Internet. That's what let me know about the founders of NLP suing each other and the weird Huna stuff, as well as what led me to a hypnosis forum with people talking about getting power over others.
Wow. And now you don't even make sense. You did research on NLP, but then you wanted to find out what NLP was. It doesn't sound to me like your research was very good. And indeed, you spent "maybe fifteen minutes' research on the internet." Perhaps you'll spend another 15 minutes of research and tell us all that you know everything about building a nuclear power plant, too.
Oh, and how about showing us the posts where we talk about how to get "power over others." Oh-oh, you won't find them here. Is that the quality of your research? If it is, then you're totally incompetent at this and nothing you say can be taking as accurate.
But never fear; I'll check back, maybe, in a week or two just to see if I can find out what the, "hypnosis from sleep," thingy was, but Curious George will survive.
And why should we care if you come back at all? Why do you think we would have a "fear" if you don't. Personally, I'm responding because I find you to be rather funny, in a sad way. :)
I think Cassandra 8's analysis of where Unre's coming from is accurate. But to take it even more to the hypnotherapy/NLP paradigm, he is coming from effect rather than cause, and we all know how problematic that can be.
I would add that his comments are those of a typical "skeptic." Such people are not really skeptics--ones who looks for truth--but rather, they are doubters and debunkers. Such people have a mind-set and will not only denounce those who have anything other than what is congruent with their mind-set to say, but will often brutally attack them verbally. As Cassandra said, the cause is fear. The fear is that if anything opens even the slightest chink in the mind-set, then he would have to examine his entire mind-set and everything that goes along with it, including his sense of self--who he is. And he is too fearful to ever wish to do such self-examination.
To prevent that, he--and other "skeptics" who are at effect from the fear cause--will come to forums such as this to not only attack anyone who believes incongruently to their mind-set, but try, through insult, (il)logic, and frequently a barrage of verbiage, to make everyone believe as he does. For if everyone believe as he does, nobody can threaten his mind-set with a simple question: "what if you're not right?" BTW, has everyone noticed that he has not given any information that most of us haven't heard many times before? Most of the posters here, especially those who've been around for a time, have something to add, not simply an attack.
So far, Mr. Unre has added nothing. So I would invite him to come back and add something. How about something you think is valuable and useful instead of just attacking others. As most people know, it's easy to try and tear something down. It's difficult to build things up.
So Unre, impress us. Build something. Tell us how you, specifically, have helped, say, ten people who are hurting and who desperately want to improve their lives. I'd love to hear what you have to say.
"Uh...Skip? Of course plate tectonics tells us that the thing about Hawaii being a remnant of a lost continent is ridiculous. Unfortunately it's not my notion; I was paraphrasing your very own Dr. Tad James, one of the sponsors of this site--I simply looked through a little of the material, and found this priceless bit from a first chapter on a book the man wrote on this very website:"
Well it is apparent you dont understand either plate tectonics or volcanic eruption.
If you had taken the time to investigate you would have learned that the ancient Hawaiian's, at the discovery of the Hawaiian Islands, already knew many of the Old Testiment stories, but knew nothing of the New Testiment stories.
Now that implies some sort of miagration, either overland, or in boats, who really cares how, but a miagration that ended, with no further contact, many years pre christ.
But you didnt take the trouble, in your search for truth, to learn why there was speculation that there was a miagration.
For me that indicates the degree to which you care about truth.
Im done with you.