Metaphors for smoking cessation?

[master_debator]

I was wondering if anyone knows of any metaphors for smoking cessation. I've used the swish pattern to become a non-smoker, and it only lasted for up to 4 days at a time. I still need to do a belief change via self-hypnosis to make it permanent.

Thanks

[Terry (existing)]

And your reason for becoming a non smoker is?

[Pdrive]

so he can be annoying and self-righteous when other people smoke....

.... honestly Terry, assumptions and mind-reading aside, what do you think?

[skip]

Pdrive,

With respect, if the fellow were to respond to Terry's question with, "My mom wants me to.", would you be able to understand the relevence of it in a new light?

skip, an annoying and self-righteous ex-smoker because he had a damn good reason.

[Terry (existing)]

Sorry Pdrive, but Skip got it you missed it. Don't be put down though, we all miss a point now and then (G) Like Skip, I am an ex smoker, and also developed methods of helping others over the years, simply because I sympathise with those who are addicted. However, unless our poster knows the hot point, and its value, no amount of talking will cut it in any modality. Even though I got a seventy percent success rate at first, many of those I worked with resumed smoking after three weeks or so, simply because I didn't recognise the value of that hot button....Most of my friends also missed out in those days, because it was generally accepted that success with smokers was about twenty percent, while we were enjoying much higher rates with other problems. Today I know ahead of time if I can succeed with such a client, but sadly, too many on this board know too litttle, and have insufficient experience to be successful in this area. That is why the smart visit, and benifit, while the less smart visit and are mistified (EG) You see, we all lack in some area of expertise, since nobody has worked with every problem that a client might present, so asking once you are skilled brings enlightenment, but asking when you are not ofter create anger at what seems to be a brush-off....

[master_debator]

And your reason for becoming a non smoker is?

Money and health reasons. Knowing this, how can I tailor a metaphor to fit this?

Thanks

[Charlie]

Money and health reasons. Knowing this, how can I tailor a metaphor to fit this?

A VERY vague skeleton of an idea: ( because it's still quite early here in the UK - I'm a zombie not a lark :( )

"Climbing a mountain, you get stuck in a patch of fog/clouds. You cough a lot & feel nauseous. But with sheer will-power you force yourself through and you emerge from the fog/clouds into clean fresh air, and you immediately start to feel so much more healthy. The clean air courses through every cell in your body, re-vitalising you, almost as if you'd never even been through the foggy patch at all. You continue to climb the mountain with substantially more vigor. You reach the top, and find a palace of unimaginable beauty and richness. You walk inside, feeling not only healthier, but wealthier, than ever before."

Of course the above should be creatively/hypnotically expanded upon, as it's just a weak skeleton of a story at present.

It could also perhaps be adapted in terms of other things, e.g. emerging from an underground cave. Or a tunnel. Or a space rocket. Or a forest. Or god knows what else.

BTW, are you sure metaphor is the best approach re the smoking? Or would you be using it in combination with other stuff: step reframing, compulsion blowout, future pacing, whatever.

Anyway, good luck.

I'm an ex-smoker myself. - Went cold turkey, then took up regular aerobic exercise & started eating healthier.

All good things.

Charlie.

[Terry (existing)]

Money and health reasons. Knowing this, how can I tailor a metaphor to fit this?

Thanks Well first of all, you posted on the hypnosis page, and we don't use metaphors. If this is the method you wish to use, look in the apropriate place on this board. However, your reply suggests you have an ulterior motive, since you offer two reasons which I have heard so often before, and in every case they were not valid hot buttons.... For some reason, everyone who is trying to fail uses those same two reasons when we ask them. If you truly had a health reason to quit, you would have quit cold turkey like Charlie, and myself. As for money, it has never been a valid reason to quit in all the years I have practised, and all the times I have dealt with smokers.... The only exception to this that I know of was my uncle, and he quit cold turkey also.....

[betlamed]

Terry,

I didn't quit cold turkey, I quit within a few weeks, but I quit nonetheless. Had you asked me that same question, my only answer would have been "I want to find out whether hypnosis works". So I'm at least one case in which seemingly "good" reasons just are not to be found, and not necessary.

I noticed in your last posting that you're switching from rational experience mode (I have heard... in every case they were) to a group fantasy (when WE ask them) to plain assumption (IF you truly had). what are you trying to protect yourself against?

What's so bad about accepting whatever reason a client has, and treating them as if they were your first client ever? Perhaps they're the very first counter-example to your negative experiences!

master_debator,

I can only tell you what I did: First off, I tried NOT to use my will to stop smoking. I relaxed about the whole issue, and used self-hypnosis to relax even more. I gave myself some time, a few weeks, to find out what would happen. In those few weeks I simply did a little self-hypnosis (I was pretty inexperienced back then) and constantly repeated to myself that I AM FREE of any and every addiction.

Doesn't sound like a very effective or professional strategy now, does it? But it worked. I haven't ever been tempted to smoke again.

I used a five-step reframing with a friend of mine who "somehow wanted" to quit, and she cut down from 3 to 2 packets.... well, I will have to work more with her, I guess.

bl

[Don]

Well first of all, you posted on the hypnosis page, and we don't use metaphors. If this is the method you wish to use, look in the apropriate place on this board.

Respectfully, you may not use metaphors in your practice, but other hypnotherapists do.


However, your reply suggests you have an ulterior motive, since you offer two reasons which I have heard so often before, and in every case they were not valid hot buttons.... For some reason, everyone who is trying to fail uses those same two reasons when we ask them. If you truly had a health reason to quit, you would have quit cold turkey like Charlie, and myself. As for money, it has never been a valid reason to quit in all the years I have practised, and all the times I have dealt with smokers.... The only exception to this that I know of was my uncle, and he quit cold turkey also.....

I sort of agree with you on this. When working with someone who wishes to quit smoking, one of the first questions I would ask is "Why?" Money and health reasons?

Have you gone into debt because you smoke? Have you had to choose between eating and smoking and you choose smoking? If not, then money is not a real concern.

Health reasons--what health reasons? Lots of people smoke into old age and never have a problem.

Those answers are just too simple. These are questions I'd explore in depth with a potential client.

I would like to add that the professionals I know don't simply do hypnosis followed by a metaphor or a few suggestions. They do hypnotherapy. This involves discovering the likes, dislikes, and interests of a client (to form metaphors that are more specific), the past experiences of the client with hypnosis, their beliefs about it, replacement behaviors, contributing factors, etc. There is no way we can do this in a forum such as this one. There's not enough space, interactivity, or time. We can't even see your breathing patterns or facial expression, let alone, more subtle body language.

I would respectfully suggest reading a book such as My Voice Will Go With You to see just how a master of the metaphor crafted them clients. I could come up with a dozen metaphors in a few minutes that could generically be used for smoking cessation, but maybe none of them would be any good for any particular person.

And that still hasn't even broached the topic of replacement behaviors for the times when you're not smoking.

[Charlie]

I would like to add that the professionals I know don't simply do hypnosis followed by a metaphor or a few suggestions. They do hypnotherapy. This involves discovering the likes, dislikes, and interests of a client (to form metaphors that are more specific), the past experiences of the client with hypnosis, their beliefs about it, replacement behaviors, contributing factors, etc. There is no way we can do this in a forum such as this one. There's not enough space, interactivity, or time. We can't even see your breathing patterns or facial expression, let alone, more subtle body language.

I figured it would be more complex for professional work.

And the 'Net can be very limited as a communication medium.





__________________

[Cassandra 8]

I would respectfully suggest reading a book such as My Voice Will Go With You to see just how a master of the metaphor crafted them clients.The only problem with that book is that there's no bloody index! Mine's marked up to hell!

[Don]

The only problem with that book is that there's no bloody index! Mine's marked up to hell!


LOL!

Well, make up an index, put it in PDF format, and sell copies.

[Cassandra 8]

LOL!

Well, make up an index, put it in PDF format, and sell copies.Do you think anyone would mind if I just gave it away quietly?

[Don]

Since, if anything, it might increase sales, I would doubt it. However, if you have any question, ask the publisher. They might even consider buying it and including it in a future edition.

[Merlin]

Cassandra,

Time to buy another :)

[Merlin]

>What's so bad about accepting whatever reason a client has

Because it's usually a waste of time.

[Merlin]

>Mine's marked up to hell!

You should see my Bible.
I use crayons to ID various subjects.
12 colours

[Mentalius]

Now, back to the issue....

Allen Carr, and his EasyWay to stop smoking, doesn´t tailor specific suggestions or metaphors, he just bangs away at people for 5 hours.

He claims to have a succesrate of 90%!!! - I honestly doubts that figure, but has nothing to back that up.

I know there is (at least) one other British stopsmoking guru, that claims the same succesrate, though through clinics, and one-on-one.

Any comments or even concrete knowledge to these businesses?

[betlamed]

Knowledge: My own experience. After one year of non-smoking I thought I'd read some Carr. It turned out to be one of the very few moments of temptation. I would say Carr's method doesn't work at all. How should talking about smoking make you think of something else than smoking?

bl

[Terry (existing)]

Now, back to the issue....

I know there is (at least) one other British stopsmoking guru, that claims the same succesrate, though through clinics, and one-on-one.

Any comments or even concrete knowledge to these businesses? To question a success rate of 90% without knowing much more about both the person and the method, would be foolish. This rate would be normal in my opinion, if claimed by a skilled practitioner, and not based on CDs or shoddy methods. Even a mediocre practitioner might be able to make such a claim so long as they didn't add that such success included those who quit for a day. To achieve this however would require in depth questioning, and probing of the client before accepting them, and many practitioners don't do this, since any client means money in their pocket, and that is what they are in business for. When doing my research on this subject, I used volunteers who had no desire to quit, but did want to experience hypnosis, and volunteered for that reason. My success rate here was very high if you accept success as being without a cigarette for three weeks. If I had been charging for my help, I would have felt duty bound to return the money paid me, and certainly don't make any claim that I succeeded with all who quit temporarily. On the other hand, if someone comes to me for help, I question them closely, and determine if they are ready for that help before I accept them, so yes a success rate of 90 plus is achieveable.....

[Mentalius]

I just went back and reread the website I had in mind. They´re offering a lifetime guarantee, and claims 97% succesrate. In my opinion that is very high.

Regarding easyway, and their quite different approach, Allen Carr states that he stopped smoking, not because of but in spite of the hypnotist, he went to.

The way he is writing this suggest some amnesia :-) Then again, I read a translated version, the original may be more clear.

Anyway, according to all more official sources, succesrates of this kind is quite unthinkable. I can think it though, but I haven´t had that kind of succes - yet.

[Terry (existing)]

I just went back and reread the website I had in mind. They´re offering a lifetime guarantee, and claims 97% succesrate. In my opinion that is very high.

Regarding easyway, and their quite different approach, Allen Carr states that he stopped smoking, not because of but in spite of the hypnotist, he went to.

The way he is writing this suggest some amnesia :-) Then again, I read a translated version, the original may be more clear.

Anyway, according to all more official sources, success rates of this kind is quite unthinkable. I can think it though, but I haven´t had that kind of succes - yet. Well, I would like to know why some sources are "more official", than others, but remember, I did say it was possible, not that anyone had achieved it. To be able to make such a claim, one would need to keep in touch with all clients over a prolonged period of time, or depend only on the numbers claiming warranty, and if the latter, it would be a fictitious figure, since some would blame themselves and not claim, while others would be too lazy to claim, and in these cases could be counted as sucessful when in fact they were not...That such is the case does leave doubt, but I repeat, it is possible, and since my own success in the later years of my practise, was equally high, I see no reason to question why someone specializing in smokers might not achieve this percentage of success. I know at least two other persons here in Calgary, who could make such a claim based on their regular practises, though they didn't just deal with smokers.....

[Mentalius]

Knowledge: My own experience. After one year of non-smoking I thought I'd read some Carr. It turned out to be one of the very few moments of temptation. I would say Carr's method doesn't work at all. How should talking about smoking make you think of something else than smoking?

bl

Well, the funniest thing happened; I read the book, thought it was badly written, kept at it and just before finishing I went into a self-induced trance, to sort of "lock it in". And I haven´t had the urge to smoke ever since - 15 months. I had done plenty of selfhypnosis in the years up to this time, with no further succes.

Allen Carr is probably the best known stopsmoking guru, internationally, and his whole approach is very unlike the NLP/Ericksonian/TimeLine-style of thinking, even as diverse as this might be.

I´m most interested if anybody has any idea on how to do groups with a succesrate in the vicinity of 90%.

To Terry: one-on-one I too, have a high succesrate, as you can see - I´m challenged by the idea of replicating it with groups.

[betlamed]

Well, obviously it does work for some people, after all. I still would like to know why, though. Carr's approach is plainly rationalistic, right? If it is true that smoking works from the unconscious, irrational part of the mind, then how can Carr's method work? How can talking about smoking stop the smoking itself?

bl

[Mentalius]

I´ve had nice results myself, one-on-one, what I find intriguing is 1) somebody having this kind of succes with groups, and 2) Allen Carrs "method" (actually there os no method, involved) is soooo non-nlp, using loads of negations, having a one-size-fit-all approach (claiming that fear and physical addiction is behind all smoking).

There is no questions asked, as a fact there is no kind of dialogue, what so ever.

Personally I read the book, ended it with a selfinduced trance, and haven´t smoked since. before that I tried most NLP techniques I knew of, selfhypnosis, 6-step reframing, you name it. I know way down deep, that I won´t smoke again ever.

[Mentalius]

Well, obviously it does work for some people, after all. I still would like to know why, though. Carr's approach is plainly rationalistic, right? If it is true that smoking works from the unconscious, irrational part of the mind, then how can Carr's method work? How can talking about smoking stop the smoking itself?

bl

Well, the great thing about this of course, is there are ways yet to explore;)
I "believed in" the NLP way; that is, secondary gains, having choice, allowing the unconcious to speak its piece etc. -and I still do. This is why it´s so intriguing with the easyway. Plus having this kind of succes with groups is interesting, as most western societies raises hell on the poor smoker.

[Terry (existing)]

Well there you go, most of us would reject that aproach out of hand, while you say it worked for you. I would say therefor, it is up to you to prove by using it that it truly does work and one size does indeed fit all. My guess is, you will fail to prove anything, but my hope would be that you could.....

[, The Magic Dragon]

Long, hot hazy days here in New England, USA.

I was up early and out to the gardens to tend and weed. It was a particular kind of work, I'm sure you know the kind, your mind can wander while your arms and hands work on their own, and your back just silently puts up with the strain. You notice in the periphery of your attention what's weed and what's planted there on purpose, but it doesn't take much effort at all to pay attention to other thoughts that present themselves to you. You can think about the day before, the people you spoke with, and how, you can imagine what you might say to them next time you see them. You might be thinking about other things you will need to do later in the day, and other things, as I'm sure you know you do normally.

Soon, you notice you've got a pile of stuff you've pulled out from wherever, and there are sections of the garden that look more opened up and like a garden, and that makes the weedy areas all the more attractive to the pulling. Yet if your garden is fairly encompassing, as are mine, this process can take a while, and even though you were up early, the Sun still rises at it's fixed and inexorable pace, and before long, you feel it's heat. It's an insistant sort of heat, and eventually, it gets to the best of gardeners on days like we're having here. 90 degrees (that's 32 C) and 90% humidity makes it so that the body has no way to really cool itself- perspiration simply doesn't evaporate in saturated air, and so the sweat begins to roll down your forehead, and back. Soon, these unpleasant sensations convince you it's time to stop what you're doing and you seek the shelter of familiar shade, or perhaps an air-conditioned space.

Something with which to wipe the perspiration is at this point always handy. And a few more minutes lingering in the pleasant and comfortable atmosphere of a cooler space...

Yet on returning to the garden, it seems even hotter now that our bodies have had a dose of cooling. So we work a while longer, and repeat the cycle. A little here, a little there.

A few years ago, I discovered the value of a wet towel draped around my shoulders. I soaked it thoroughly and, of course, I used one light in color, preferebly white, so as to reflect as much light as possible, and keep it cooler. I found such a simple trick to be most effective in extending the time I could work in the gardens and feel more comfortable for longer periods.

I found in fact that it kept it such that the previously intense feelings of warmth and humidity were reduced enough so that I found myself distracted from them by noticing the many plants I had in the garden, and the particular ways they grow. And there were in some places in the garden the evidence of old growth- last years "bones" as the old sticks are called by many gardeners, and I marvelled at the cycles of plants, how they go from such a tiny seed, just a single little bit of a thing that, once planted, takes hold, grows into something a little more, and before we know it it is fully developed with it's own growth habit, bearing flowers, then seeds, and eventually returning to the soil from which it was built, leaving behind a crop of new seeds to start the cycle again. And some seeds fall on fertile ground where they can grow, and others don't, falling instead onto areas that offer no medium conducive to the development of a plant's particular growth habit.

Oddly enough, though, you may notice that while some plants can't grow in certain conditions, others can, and most gardeners, myself included, certainly take advantage of that knowledge, planting just those things that are ideally suited to a specific area there, and not other things. It seems such a simple idea, but it's interesting to notice how many people who don't garden regularly and don't notice these things don't know what to not plant in the places where they won't grow, isn't it. And yet the plants know without ever watching, it's built in.

And so at the end of the day the garden is weeded, and thanks to the aid of a simple device for cooling yourself, you find your mind has been free to explore other things while your hands and arms worked independantly to do what you only had to pay just a little attention to, because only one part of you really needed to keep track of that anyway.

And if the weather in New England is anything like it is in so many other places these days, it'll change a little tomorrow, and next week, and next month, and all the while expressing the sameness and consistency of it's natural character by being different all the time, always coming up with new expressions of the natural manifestations of the seasons.

And I wonder sometimes, while I find myself becoming aware of the fact that I'm reading posts on a computer screen or a printout, just how the weather will surprise me tomorrow.

---***X***---

[Mentalius]

Well there you go, most of us would reject that aproach out of hand, while you say it worked for you. I would say therefor, it is up to you to prove by using it that it truly does work and one size does indeed fit all. My guess is, you will fail to prove anything, but my hope would be that you could.....

Hmmmm. Its not necessarily up to me to prove anything, but actually I have. I have held a number of classes, experimenting with different "mind-techs" including a easyway-ripoff (which I´m not certified to do). 3 out of 4 has stopped, measured within the 6 - 8 mts. period I´ve been testing. I´m not yet quite satisfied, going for 85-90 % success.

If and when I reach this, I´ve learned a good deal about the holy cow, I´ve nurtured - NLP.

I´ms till interested in anyone else who does groups, in how they do, what they do, results etc.