is this a "new" way of hypnotising/taking suggestions?

[artvox]

I'm relatively versed in hypnosis, and I'm one of those ones who takes a bit of time to get to only a superficial state of hypnosis.

I decided that instead of continuing self-hypnosis, I would record an audio file with suggestions, direct, well crafted and calling me by my name, also referring to me as you your.

I then replay this recording in a loop while on the computer, watching a movie, working, listening to music. The words are audible but after a while you really get used to it.

My question for you guys who understand subconscious processes and have hypnosis experience: will this be effective in any way, after hours listening to this (let's say 10 hours a week), what would be the effect?

I also added classical music (Bach) and Theta wave vibrations to the background of the recording - lower volume then the voice. So how would this influence the result??

I did notice some changes by doing this but I'm not sure if is a placebo effect.

I'm new at the forum, and would love to hear you guys opinions.

Thanks a bunch

[Poodle]

it reads as if going to a professional would be much easier and faster.

If "what" you are attempting to do is not "self-hypnosis" what is it?

[skip]

Artvox,

Allow me to ask you a question.

Or so ...

Because your delima is typical of that of so mny others.

What do you know about relationships?

How many relationships, in your experience, work well, where one member tells the other one what to do, either as a command, or repeatedly; over and over?

What if one person in a relationship gives commands in swahili and the other doesnt understand swahili?

Have you ever observed someone, who thinks they ought to be 'the commander', try and get something done in a consesus society?

Have you ever trained a horse, or any other specie?

You may or may not know something about hypnosis.

But knowing something about hypnosis is the easy part of getting something accomplished.

Your unconscious doesnt speak the same language your conscious mind does. Nor does it 'think' in a linear fashion as your conscious does.

Sometimes I wonder if our unconscious even knows 'we' exist.

First learn how to get into a good 'working trance' state.

And in the mean time, begin asking yourself, "How could I communicate what I want to do, without using any words at all?"

cheers,

skip

[Soren K (existing)]

Nor does it 'think' in a linear fashion as your conscious does.


Hi Skip,

What is to be understood by 'linear fashion' here? Even when the movement is all over the place, isn't there still a line? :confused:

[Poodle]

Skip is correct in his statement. The C mind "thinks" in a linear fashion. The UC mind is more holistic in nature and is the realm of feelings, habits, etc. We have found there are certain mathematical functions that the UC understands well such as double that, reduce by half.

Love~ma

[Soren K (existing)]

Skip is correct in his statement. The C mind "thinks" in a linear fashion. The UC mind is more holistic in nature and is the realm of feelings, habits, etc. We have found there are certain mathematical functions that the UC understands well such as double that, reduce by half.

Love~ma

Thanks Ma, things seems so vague to me at times, I wondered if skip had something more specific in mind when he said 'linear'. Something someone said the other week about Bandler finding out how a person did her fear consciously, then interupted it, and found out how she did it unconsciously and interupted it, then gave her a better option. I wonder how you would find out how someone does something unconsciously if there is no sequence (linear progression).

Every day, I observe my mind - stuff you don't usually notice, twice a day, reflecting on the full range of submodality distinctions that occur while shifting between states, and the states they produce. Am I observing my unconscious? I don't know about this. But there are progressions of images and sounds, voices, contractions of muscles, and degrees of absorbtion, fleeting from one thing to another, very rapidly. One second I could be thinking about what kind of car is passing outside, the next thing I've shifted, like in a dream through conversation about a conversation I had with a friend at new year, followed closely by a laugh I had about it with someone else, then how we were practicing hubad, I could be thinking in words about that, and have an image of a place i lived as a child, and suddenly, I am in the gym, remembering how I got choked out at stick-fighting last sunday, then I am creating images of how to counter it, I'm trying it out, or doing something different, next thing my whole body is pointing in the other direction and I feel muscles contractions all over my arms and legs -- amazing -- I catch all this and follow the chain back to the moment the car was passing by and how it all emerged from there. As I feel them and look at where my eyes are in my head, feel my eyes in my head, where are they pointing, how does it feel all blurred and absorbed, noticing my jaw twitching and my scalp taut, energy flowing down to my arms, leg in a certain state, all that sort of thing... reflecting on the course of what has appeared in consciousness, which for the most part I am completely oblivious to. These things, in consciousness, seem to me for the most part, subconscious as I ordinarily comport myself in daily activity.

But perhaps the unconscious is something completely different. Perhaps they are symbols for something deeper, still. But yet an encouraging activity.

JC

[skip]

Soren,

There is little doubt that the following is entirely a lie.

It could be that I was talking about chunk size. The conscious seems to need small chunks, so you can 'understand' each as you go, and 'eventually' you grok it all.

The unconscious doesnt need small chunks. It is capable of taking in and assimilating the gestalt.

Or I might have been talking about sequencing.

When I lead siminars, I tend to mix up the 'steps' so that they are out of order, and often 'disguise' what is being taught at any particular point. That way the conscious mind is busy trying to figure out what is going on, and doesnt interfere with the learning. The unconscious can take the material in any order and much larger chunk size and at the end when the loops are closed, you get the , "Ah ha" experience that signifies both conscious and unconscious competence.

In fact the unconscious prefers to learn this way, or so it seems.

AND conscious understanding isnt necessary for unconscious competence. In fact it often interferes. I can time release conscious understanding so that clients and students dont have the ability to 'unpack' the new learnings and thereby undoo them.


This gives new behavior time to be well ingrained as a habit, before the conscious has an opportunity to meddle. Have you ever, as a therpast, had a client leave your office with exactly the new behavior operating at an unconscious competence, and then week or so later they call and tell you it 'went away'? What type of client is it that this occurrs with most frequently?

Or have you yourself, had the experience, where you did something excellently, and then screwed up your ability to duplicate it, by trying to figure out how you did it. Say like 'being in the zone' in some athletic endeavor, or doing well on tests, for example.

Or I might have been talking about both.

Now I will gree that accessing seems to follow linear paterns, in that the transdiversonal search seems to involve an identical pattern, which offers an opportunity to 'pattern interrupt' and thus block accessing that particular 5 tuple. But there doesnt seem to be any particular order to how one pattern is arranged compared to others. Ie. all starting with V or A or some such and following that 'meta' pattern consistantly.

But I suspect it is important to note that the unconscious really doesnt seem to 'care' if the 'accessing strategy' is rearranged. Nor does it seem to care if that particular 5 tuple is ever again accessed.

I suspect it would be a mistake to say that just because something is capable of using linerar sequencing, that it is organized in a linear fashion.

And the fact is that even to discuss it consciously we need to impose some 'linearness', so it can be understood. Where as I suspect the unconscious needs no such limitation.



I hope that helped,

skip

[Merlin]

>Even when the movement is all over the place, isn't there still a line?

or plane, or sphere, or...
the mind can do more than one thing simultaneously
it also doesn't care about time or sequence order.

[Soren K (existing)]

it also doesn't care about time or sequence order.

It might not care about it, but if it is responsible for behaviour it will have a sequence order I'm thinking. Similarly, if it does things simulataneously it will have a means of doing these (even if the means are independent), and when it's done (hypothetically at least) a person can look back down the line and see how it did it. Would that be fair to say?

[Soren K (existing)]

Now I will gree that accessing seems to follow linear paterns, in that the transdiversonal search seems to involve an identical pattern, which offers an opportunity to 'pattern interrupt' and thus block accessing that particular 5 tuple. But there doesnt seem to be any particular order to how one pattern is arranged compared to others. Ie. all starting with V or A or some such and following that 'meta' pattern consistantly.

But I suspect it is important to note that the unconscious really doesnt seem to 'care' if the 'accessing strategy' is rearranged. Nor does it seem to care if that particular 5 tuple is ever again accessed.

I suspect it would be a mistake to say that just because something is capable of using linerar sequencing, that it is organized in a linear fashion.

And the fact is that even to discuss it consciously we need to impose some 'linearness', so it can be understood. Where as I suspect the unconscious needs no such limitation.


Thanks for an insightful reply. Not sure I still agree that it doesn't do things in a linear fashion, but I think the idea of nonconsistent sequencing is probably good enough clarification for what I was zoomin in on.

[Merlin]

i guess it depends mostly on how you define terms.
given two points x and y,
there is an infinite amount of ways of getting from x to y
not all of which are linear, or even continuous.

[skip]

I suspect I understand your delima.

The unconscious uses things like habits a lot, and habits if anything seem to be linear.

Do this, then do that, then the other, and so on over and over.

Patterns.

I agree the unconscious seems to like routines.

But Soren does it follow then that the unconscious must be linear?

You are observing an aspect of the unconscious and extrapolating a 'whole' from it.

Does your data justify your 'result'?

skip

[Vin]

I think part of the debate might be related to the word "linear", that is, a geometrical property. Consequential could be more appropriate.

[Poodle]

as the conscious mind is very linear. That's one large reason it will not allow new data in correctly. It generalizes, distorts and deletes incoming information. There was a post quite some time ago that is very, very interesting. It was by Lane Pearce who works for Dr. Matt wherein he explained just what the 7+/- 2 bits of information comprise. Hope it was on this Forum and not the older one. Enjoy reading it.

Pood

[Abra-melin]

Artvox, to answer your question, yes your method will have an effect. Essentially, subliminals do work, especially at theta if you are getting down there, but even when fully conscious and "zoned out" audible affirmations will also work. Just make sure the language is always positive (NO negatives at all or you produce the reverse of the desired effect. Subconscious does not process negatives. Try thinking of a ball that is NOT red. What do you see?)

Try to create strong visuals or kinesthetics when formulating the affirmations. Eventually you will find you do not need the crutch of the audio files, since creating the strong VAK awareness and sending it to your sunconscious as an instruction works equally as well. The difference is that you can do that anytime, anywhere.

The music only influences the result as a conscious distraction. Baroque music, especially Vivaldi has been used extensively to reduce brain wave frequencies, but in reality it is not the relaxed, or even hypnotic state that makes the change at a subconsious level. It is the pure suggestion accepted by the unconscious emotional memory and then reused as a behaviour modifier.

Hope this helps.

Abra-melin


I'm relatively versed in hypnosis, and I'm one of those ones who takes a bit of time to get to only a superficial state of hypnosis.

I decided that instead of continuing self-hypnosis, I would record an audio file with suggestions, direct, well crafted and calling me by my name, also referring to me as you your.

I then replay this recording in a loop while on the computer, watching a movie, working, listening to music. The words are audible but after a while you really get used to it.

My question for you guys who understand subconscious processes and have hypnosis experience: will this be effective in any way, after hours listening to this (let's say 10 hours a week), what would be the effect?

I also added classical music (Bach) and Theta wave vibrations to the background of the recording - lower volume then the voice. So how would this influence the result??

I did notice some changes by doing this but I'm not sure if is a placebo effect.

I'm new at the forum, and would love to hear you guys opinions.

Thanks a bunch

[Merlin]

Artvox, to answer your question, yes your method will have an effect. Essentially, subliminals do work, especially at theta if you are getting down there, but even when fully conscious and "zoned out" audible affirmations will also work. Just make sure the language is always positive (NO negatives at all or you produce the reverse of the desired effect. Subconscious does not process negatives. Try thinking of a ball that is NOT red. What do you see?)
i thought of a blue one.
most of the time the mind can deal with negatives just fine.

[master_debator]

Hmm, people still believe that subliminals work? Are you aware that the whole 'buy more popcorn' 'experiment' was a confirmed hoax. James Vicary admitted to the data being falsified. Now lets say you made your own subliminal recording and it worked... Since you know what the 'subliminals' are, this is in turn a placebo effect.


(NO negatives at all or you produce the reverse of the desired effect. Subconscious does not process negatives. Try thinking of a ball that is NOT red. What do you see?)


I'd have to argue against this one. What if someone is in a hypnotic trance and you tell them "you will not SMILE...now your unconscious may....etc...etc"

I've done this a few times, and I get people to smile. So how was a negative suggestion bad here?

[Soren K (existing)]

Try thinking of a ball that is NOT red. What do you see?)


A green ball?

[master_debator]

(NO negatives at all or you produce the reverse of the desired effect. Subconscious does not process negatives. Try thinking of a ball that is NOT red. What do you see?)


Hey don't relax too quickly...

[Poodle]

Don't sit in that chair..... unless...... your unconscious..... wants to enter a deep trance now. :D